Cross Ange

[hitokirigarou]

I'm guessing there was more to the cavity search. There was a lot of blood near her posterior. I wonder if she was given a nonsurgical hysterectomy? Maybe they don't want the norma to be able to reproduce?

[Destiny_Gundam]

People are saying that blood is her mother's that was still on her clothes.

[hitokirigarou]

Ah, I forgot about her mother's blood.

[Zeonista]

Got to watch #1 last night finally. Holy moly, that first episode story did not go as expected! That's not a bad thing, mind you, but I had expected one thing, and got another. The opening was excellent, Sunrise proving they can juggle 3 mecha shows and deliver quality on all of them. Then, so much for any pretensions of fluff, they sent the Disney Princess to the Legion of the Damned, and left her with nothing as a consolation! As a MEKTON gamer of long standing, I can state without hesitation that Cross Ange can now give Area 88 competition for the title of Most Screwed Hero Background Ever. (Ange had one hell of a set of Lifepath rolls for sure!) I do expect ANge's back-stabbing brother is going to make everybody's list of Anime Villains You Love To Hate in short order. (He's on mine, yeah. )

I gotta say, I am most interested in episode #2 and how Ange gets used to her new life, or lack thereof.

On the technical level, the production quality is good. I like the highly practical nature of the dragon-fighting mecha, and their efficient transformation sequence. Very much the Re-Zel in effect, I can dig it. The dual nature of the Perfect Future and the organization responsible for perfecting it is done very nicely. In particular the Chateau d'If/Devil's Island impact of Ange's new "home" was brought to the fore quite nicely! The characters all look pretty, but it's to be expected already, and so far the pretty does not get in the way of the characterization.

Addendum: "that scene": You all know it, the final indignity in Ange's welcome. It seems to be controversial, with a lot of PC pearl-clutching and debate about it being "necessary". To which I must ask, is there anyone here who would object to the vicious beatdown handed to the sobbing new guy at the beginning of Shawshank Redemption, or the subsequent laundry room scene? I think the scene is very relevant, since the officers in charge of prisoner-recruit processing don't know and don't care about anyone's prior life. Ange is now a Norma, she is officially a non-person & one of the Damned, and the sooner she gets on to dealing with it, the better. And if accepting the situation involves a rather rude wake-up call of a donkey punch disguised as a cavity search, it's what she "needs". The dragons are coming, and there is no time or room for complaints. You're in Hell girl, get moving or feel the fork.

[Strike Zero]

You can hardly blame people for being critical, though. If I had to guess, I'd say that a lot of the debate on whether or not it was necessary stems from the suspicion that Fukuda's motivations may not have been entirely pure, if you catch my drift. The series was already very fetish-y to begin with, what with the pilot suits and lesbian shenanigans, then they had to go and play the cavity search scene up for fanservice too. They didn't have to. There were plenty of ways they could've had that scene while keeping it decidedly un-sexy, but they didn't, so to me it's little wonder that people would start complaining.

[Zeonista]

I don't consider that scene sexy at all, and anyone professing to like that brutal act as such wins no points from me. Like I said, the scene isn't fetish fuel, it's the terminal point of Ange's descent from the highest peak to the lowest depths. It is meant to underscore Ange's plight as a non-person, and at the same time put a terminus to Princess Angelise the pampered darling of the masses. Which is why I made the references to Shawshank Redemption and Area 88. In the former, the brutal side of life in prison is used as the framing device for Andy Dupree's decision to survive and escape somehow.

And Ange is the extreme version of Kazama Shin, who gets prodded out of a drunken stupor to be greeted with the news that he just signed on for 3 years of aerial combat, and the only answer he gets is his signed contract waved in his face along with a pistol. What about his fast-tracked life as ace pilot and probable future head of a Japanese airline? Yeah right, survive 3 years at Area 88 and then we'll talk. Shin has it easy compared to Ange, who has been written off as a human. She'll never be allowed back from her combat deployment, and the nasty officer is just letting her know that up front. Angelise is dead, Ange must live.

[Strike Zero]

Whether or not one particularly finds the scene to be sexy is irrelevant -- it's all about portrayal. If the scene wasn't meant to be erotic, but rather purely to demonstrate the turning point for Ange's character, then explain to me the point of that slooow, upward pan over her exposed body after her clothes had been sliced open. Or that low angle shot centered in on Ange's wiggling ass while she was being pinned to the torture table. Whether or not one ends up being aroused by them, the fetish-y elements are still there and quite deliberate, which of course leads people to wonder what in the hell Fukuda was thinking when he sat there and said, "yup, this is perfect, send it on through."

Of course, you're free to interpret it however you want. You posited that the scene was perfect, I pointed out the parts that people might take issue with, and that's that. At the end of it all, I don't really care one way or the other.

...

Well... maybe I care a little bit. For all intents and purposes, I can be kind of a pervert. =P

[Destiny_Gundam]

I'm pretty pervy too but any fanservice aspect of that scene gets lost in the context. If they wanted it to be fanservicy then they'd have gone much further with it. Yeah, her ass wiggles... but it's covered by a cape the entire time. She gets stripped of her clothes, but we don't see nipples or anything. It even cuts away before we even see anything happen to her.

The funny thing about fanservice is that it's extremely easy to ignore it when it doesn't appeal to you. That people so vehemently bitch about it just says to me that they really were turned on by it and are lashing out in denial.

[Xenosynth]

I... disagree heavily with that last statement. For me, it's not easy to ignore when they shove it in your face, and it makes me feel very uncomfortable. But no, let's just pretend that everyone just secretly loves it and that all fanservice is okay (which is what you are implying by stating that it's easy to ignore.)

You don't speak for every individual on something and you can't just say 'Oh people who are bothered by it are really turned on by it.' Would you also say the same for people who complain about racism in a work? Or sexism? 'If it bothers them they must really be like that and are lashing out'? I haven't even watched this show yet, but seeing your post say something like that greatly bothered me enough that I felt the need to post.

I'm sorry but you are literally saying 'No one can complain about this thing or else they are really complete deviants who enjoy seeing crap like this, or else they'd just ignore it.' The problem with fanservice is that it IS hugely noticeable, that's why people complain about it. People are allowed to NOT LIKE THINGS without being told there is something wrong with them.

[Destiny_Gundam]

It is easy to ignore. If boobs don't do anything for you, then seeing them should not provoke a reaction in you. Remember that the opposite of like isn't hate, it's apathy. Even if you can't ignore it completely you still shouldn't be so fixated on it that you become completely blind to any other aspects of the show.

Of course you can criticise something and be perfectly reasonable about it, but if you look closely at my post I wasn't talking about those people. I was talking about people who "vehemently bitch," the people who will drop a show with good characters and plot just because it showed a little skin. They're the ones who go on forums and rave about how otaku RUIN EVERYTHING and how they're so MORALLY OUTRAGED or whatever. They're so insistant that they have "better taste" and don't watch that "garbage" that you can't help but think they're trying way too hard to convince themselves and others that it's true. It's a textbook sign that they're in denial about possessing the traits they find so repulsive.

[Xenosynth]

Ahh, okay. I didn't quite realize that's what you were talking about. With how your post was, I thought you meant that all criticism was 'vehemently bitching.' I just know a few people who will regard complaints about fanservice as people being prudes, which I always found abhorrent behavior.

For me, I don't mind people who like fanservice, I just get annoyed when people who like OR dislike it start invalidating the other side's gripes or likes. I misunderstood your post a bit though, so sorry about that.

[Zeonista]

Well... maybe I care a little bit. For all intents and purposes, I can be kind of a pervert. =P

Well, so can most of us given the appropriate circumstance. So I won't fault you in that respect! For my own part I must confess the more lurid aspects of the scene didn't bother me as much as some other MAHQ members, but I have only myself to blame for that. As a younger anime fan with fewer boundaries, I watched some videos that I probably should not have, in lovingly rendered LD-quality animation...in the era before obscuring pixels and beams of light were introduced.

Destiny_Gundam: I can understand your frustration with that certain type of viewer as you have described. They get wearisome after a while, especially when it is clear that 1) it is supposed to be light ecchi; 2) they are focused on the trees and not the forest of the story. Nudity and sexuality do not automatically entail pornography or exploitation. (There is an entire separate anime market for that sort of thing.)

Fukuda isn't the sort of director to put a controversial scene in his stories just so he can be "controversial" and get a little statuette at an awards banquet. He has always had a purpose in his choice of scenes, including the ones that push audience buttons. Despite everything I have said about GSD, I have to give Fukuda that much credit as an anime storyteller.

[SonicSP]

Not sure what to think of this show. I missed the first episode last week because of transit I have a good idea of what's going on in reading. Definitely fan service heavy from what I've seen of the second episode but I can accept that if it's part of the whole concept. Interested in which direction this show is going to go. With just a chance of expectation of what I expect of a Gundam show and I have to say I'm getting excited.

And before today I know next to nothing of this minus the title of this thread lol.

[BrentD15]

Holy crap, the SEED references never end!

Spoiler

The "Dragons" are actually an acronym for:
Dimensional
Rift
Attuned
Gargantuan
Organic
Neototypes

I'm starting to think that Fukuda isn't even being subtle with this anymore.

[Strike Zero]

Dimensional
Rift
Attuned
Gargantuan
Organic
Neototypes

PffffttttttthahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Also, HOLY CRAP, SOMEBODY PLEASE COME UP WITH AN ACRONYM FOR "BLOWN THE FUCK OUT"

[Henyo]

Fukuda: trying to make cool words even cooler. and failing. since 2002.(or did he start this in his earlier works?)

anyone else thinking that Valkili's head design resembles Gosei Knight?(or if your a PR fan, Robo Knight.)

[FieryBlitz]

WARNING!! WARNING!! There is a Memetic Mutation taking place in the spoiler below!!

Spoiler

https://boards.4chan.org/m/thread/11510380

[Raikoh]

Well, episode 2...

I'm still not sure what the tone is supposed to be, since it's being blatantly dark in a lot of the themes and writing but still having a lighthearted atmosphere more often than not (mostly due to the side cast).

My personal theory is that we're going to spend a long time sending Ange down the road to hell, break her down so that she can be built up. She's being very belligerent, unwilling to accept the reality of her situation, and that's honestly the most believable reaction I could imagine. I don't see what that pre-screened blog post was talking about saying Ange just brushed off the cavity search from the first episode, because she was downright hostile to pretty much everyone - except our now-dead girl who was spoiling her, and put her into a more delusional mindset.

Spoiler

Okay, THAT one was attempted rape. So, yes, people are justified in getting angry at it, but I still think that even though it's a disturbing scene, it can serve some point in the plot other than fetish fuel. It's still trying to drive the stake home that Ange needs to get to a really low point before she accepts her situation. Also, I get the impression that it's used to make us really not like Zola, maybe as a "take that" against the people who are overly obsessed with yuri, to the point of not caring about anything else in a series (see: the most rabid of Nanofate shippers)? She's also tripping over so many death flags it isn't a question of IF, but WHEN, and WHEN is feeling like it's going to be real soon. Boy, I get the feeling that one will be very cathartic.

Also it made me realize I probably should try find a different source of subs since huge bars covering half the screen is annoying as hell.

I'm going to theorize that Ange's mother is who got her into Iaria, just in case she did get discovered she'd have some skills that could help her out.

Last thought: Ange's room has two beds but she doesn't have a roomie. Either they think that wouldn't be good for her current situation or they just don't need to double up on rooms at this point. I expect she'll be getting a roommate somewhere down the line.

Still not bad. Yeah, it's not great since the tone is all over the place but it wouldn't be getting half the crap it does if it didn't have Fukuda associated with it, you know. Let's give it a few more episodes and see if the suffering just gets ramped up (it definitely is going to in ep. 3) exponentially or if it'll become the bishoujo robot anime that Preview!Ange wants.

[Destiny_Gundam]

I'm going to theorize that Ange's mother is who got her into Iaria, just in case she did get discovered she'd have some skills that could help her out.

It's not strange for royalty to be educated in all sorts of fields, so Ange being good at all sorts of things isn't surprising. Most of those Norma girls probably didn't get such an extensive education so it's also not surpising that she'd be better than a lot of them.

Last thought: Ange's room has two beds but she doesn't have a roomie. Either they think that wouldn't be good for her current situation or they just don't need to double up on rooms at this point. I expect she'll be getting a roommate somewhere down the line.

It's mentioned in the episode that she's just an odd numbered recruit and will get a roommate once some one else joins.

[Mythgarr]

This show is trash.
Never I had to cut short second episode of a mecha anime only two minutes into the show.

*shudders*