Rape scene in 08th MS Team

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doghunter1
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Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by doghunter1 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:58 am

Spoiler thread. Be warned.

Again, is the translation below of a certain excerpt from the 08th MS Team novels written by Ichiro Okouchi true or not:

キキを見つけて、兵士が叫んだ。
When they found Kiki, the soldiers exclaimed,
『女だぜ』
"It's a woman!"
『まだ子供だ』
"She's still just a kid."
『なあに、俺たちが大人にしてやれば いいことさ』
"Oh yeah? That means we get to make her into a woman."
兵士たちが野卑な笑い声をあげた。
The soldiers chortled with vulgar laughter.
『さあて。それじゃ、いただくとするか』
"Alright, then. Shall I just help myself?"
ズボンのベルトを ゆるめながら男が言った。
The man said this while loosening the belt of his pants.
キキは思わず後ずさった。しかし、男の方が早かった。
Kiki involuntarily took a step back. The man, however, was fast.
男は、キキを組み敷くように飛び掛かってきた。キキは抵抗しようとしたが、すぐに他の兵士に両手両足を押さえつけられてしまった。
The man jumped on her and pinned her down. Kiki tried to resist, but the other soldiers grabbed onto her hands and feet.
『そう嫌がるなよ。なあに、すぐに気持ちよくしてやるさ』
"Donʻt resist so much. Don't you worry, we'll have you feeling good in no time."
(いや……)
(No...)
涙が あふれそうになった。
Her tears were nearly overflowing.
男がナイフを取り出し、キキの服を ゆっくりと切り裂いていく。
The man pulled out a knife and took his time cutting open Kiki's clothes.
肌に当たるナイフは、凍るように冷たかった。
The knife brushed her skin; it was cold as ice.
(助けて……)
(Help me...)
(助けてよ、シロー)
(Help me, Shiro!)
(Shiro...)
(Shiro...)
(Shiro...)
(Shirooooooooo-!)
男たちの下で、キキは絶叫した。
From underneath the men, Kiki let out a terrible scream.
『……キキは?』
"......Where's Kiki?"
『死んだよ』
"She's dead."
吐き捨てるように、村女の一人が言った。
One of the village woman said, spitting out the words.
『連邦の男どもに乱暴されて、舌を噛み切ったんだ』
"While those bastards from the Federation raped her, she bit her own tongue."

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Victorize
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by Victorize » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:16 am

Well then. That was weird.

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wielder
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by wielder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:13 pm

doghunter1 wrote:Spoiler thread. Be warned.

Again, is the translation below of a certain excerpt from the 08th MS Team novels written by Ichiro Okouchi true or not:
Spoiler
Show
キキを見つけて、兵士が叫んだ。
When they found Kiki, the soldiers exclaimed,
『女だぜ』
"It's a woman!"
『まだ子供だ』
"She's still just a kid."
『なあに、俺たちが大人にしてやれば いいことさ』
"Oh yeah? That means we get to make her into a woman."
兵士たちが野卑な笑い声をあげた。
The soldiers chortled with vulgar laughter.

(SKIP)

『さあて。それじゃ、いただくとするか』
"Alright, then. Shall I just help myself?"
ズボンのベルトを ゆるめながら男が言った。
The man said this while loosening the belt of his pants.
キキは思わず後ずさった。しかし、男の方が早かった。
Kiki involuntarily took a step back. The man, however, was fast.
男は、キキを組み敷くように飛び掛かってきた。キキは抵抗しようとしたが、すぐに他の兵士に両手両足を押さえつけられてしまった。
The man jumped on her and pinned her down. Kiki tried to resist, but the other soldiers grabbed onto her hands and feet.
『そう嫌がるなよ。なあに、すぐに気持ちよくしてやるさ』
"Donʻt resist so much. Don't you worry, we'll have you feeling good in no time."

(SKIP)

(いや……)
(No...)
涙が あふれそうになった。
Her tears were nearly overflowing.
男がナイフを取り出し、キキの服を ゆっくりと切り裂いていく。
The man pulled out a knife and took his time cutting open Kiki's clothes.
肌に当たるナイフは、凍るように冷たかった。
The knife brushed her skin; it was cold as ice.
(助けて……)
(Help me...)
(助けてよ、シロー)
(Help me, Shiro!)
(Shiro...)
(Shiro...)
(Shiro...)
(Shirooooooooo-!)
男たちの下で、キキは絶叫した。
From underneath the men, Kiki let out a terrible scream.

(SKIP)

『……キキは?』
"......Where's Kiki?"
『死んだよ』
"She's dead."
吐き捨てるように、村女の一人が言った。
One of the village woman said, spitting out the words.
『連邦の男どもに乱暴されて、舌を噛み切ったんだ』
"While those bastards from the Federation raped her, she bit her own tongue."
You'd have to ask someone who has actually obtained or otherwise read the novels in question and can confirm or deny the accuracy of that transcription and its corresponding translation.

Since you're just copying and pasting a bunch of text from /m/ though, that's sort of a moot point.

For the heck of it, I put spoiler tags in the quote and re-added the sections where the novel apparently skips ahead to other scenes, rather than being a continuous block of text.

But, you know, I'd honestly be far more interested in discussing the 08th MS Team novels as a whole, with that particular scene or any other placed in its proper context, including what was the aftermath and its consequences, plus what other differences separate the adaptation from the anime.

Personally, I think that merely going for a selective and almost sensationalist approach, ignoring the rest of the content to focus on that scene, is of little to no value. It brings down the level of any discussion.
Last edited by wielder on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Strike Zero
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by Strike Zero » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:20 pm

Deacon Blues has confirmed in the past that, yes, there is a scene in the 08th MS Team novels where Kiki Rosita is raped by Federation soldiers and commits suicide thereafter.
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Kratos
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by Kratos » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:08 am

wielder wrote:But, you know, I'd honestly be far more interested in discussing the 08th MS Team novels as a whole, with that particular scene or any other placed in its proper context, including what was the aftermath and its consequences, plus what other differences separate the adaptation from the anime.
This. This exactly. In fact, this scene is so bizarre and feels so tonally different from the OVA that the larger context is basically a requirement for discussing it. It's like something out of a totally different work, and makes me wonder if the rest of the story surrounding it carries a similar pitch-black tone or if this was thrown in for cheap shock.
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YazanGable
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by YazanGable » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:44 pm

Kratos wrote:It's like something out of a totally different work, and makes me wonder if the rest of the story surrounding it carries a similar pitch-black tone or if this was thrown in for cheap shock.
It's worth noting this novel is written by the man who handled a lot of the writing on Valvrave the Liberator (yes, including THAT part) and Code Geass R2.
So I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it was done for shock value.

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wielder
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by wielder » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:20 pm

YazanGable wrote: It's worth noting this novel is written by the man who handled a lot of the writing on Valvrave the Liberator (yes, including THAT part) and Code Geass R2.
So I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it was done for shock value.
I would prefer to be a little more cautious about this. True, he was scripted some scenes that can be taken that way. But that's not automatically true of everything he has ever written, whether in those works or in others such as Planetes or Overman King Gainer. Something can be shocking without being limited to providing shock value. Just like how I would say Code Geass (both seasons) did a lot of things better than Valvrave, even in that respect, so rushing to conclusions too quickly is a bit dangerous.

The man has produced writing of varying quality over the years. Most recently, I liked the episode of Space Dandy that he worked on. And, perhaps more relevant to the topic, I didn't have any problems with his 08th MS Team BD short film, which was reviewed here.

We can't rule out the possibility that the scene, whether we like it or not, serves a valid function. All those projects have their differences and a big theme in the original 08th MS Team narrative is the idea that war is hell, which informs Shiro's pacifism along with his love at first sight for Aina. Is this something else that ties into the first part of that equation, just with a darker tone than the one used to make most of the OVA? Does it work when read along with the rest of the novel content?

This particular scene might come across as an extreme example out of context, but it is not necessarily unrealistic nor implausible, since sexual violence is an unavoidable part of many human conflicts and particularly guerrilla wars all across the world. If the Zeon and the Federation actually existed, neither of them would have a clean record in this category of atrocities.
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:40 pm

I had heard about that part before, but there's also a rather significant difference in the ending that I prefer over the OVA: supposedly the Kerguelen isn't shot down and escapes safely. I would much prefer that to be the case given that Norris sacrificed himself in order to shoot down the final Guntank.

On another note, is there any extra background info in the novel about Yuri, the Zeon commander Ghinias killed in order to continue the development of the Apsaras?

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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by Android raptor » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:14 am

I know the novels have a backstory for Ghinius (namely that he suffers from radiation poisoning from an explosion at age 12), but I too would love more info on Yuri in the novels.
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teslashark
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by teslashark » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:24 pm

If Tomino is ever considered half-disturbed, then Okouchi is quarter-disturbed. I remember the 08MS novel mentioning blown off bits of people with gleeful detail when one of Kiki's friends stepped on a landmine (though survived).
Though he did some research on eyeball value and shock value when he began writing Geass R1 (i.e. deciding Japan should be under occupation, to make Zero a prince, etc through linking sales to element use). He probably kept the habit.

And then someone worse. Gusoh poison gas providing death through thousands of years. Marida. Harlock in name only.
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doghunter1
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by doghunter1 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:48 pm

teslashark wrote:If Tomino is ever considered half-disturbed, then Okouchi is quarter-disturbed. I remember the 08MS novel mentioning blown off bits of people with gleeful detail when one of Kiki's friends stepped on a landmine (though survived).
Though he did some research on eyeball value and shock value when he began writing Geass R1 (i.e. deciding Japan should be under occupation, to make Zero a prince, etc through linking sales to element use). He probably kept the habit.

And then someone worse. Gusoh poison gas providing death through thousands of years. Marida. Harlock in name only.
You're referring to Fukui in that last paragraph right?

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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by teslashark » Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:53 pm

I'm not saying anything.
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doghunter1
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Re: Rape scene in 08th MS Team

Post by doghunter1 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:51 am

teslashark wrote:I'm not saying anything.
Okay then.

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