The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

[Deacon Blues]

Here's the latest timeline info from the book:

EPISODE.7 TIMELINE

U.C.0096 May 3rd through 4th (all times GMT)

05.03 Around 23:00 to 05.04 Around 00:30:

• Ronan, Martha and company arrive at the Cheyenne base.
  The Ra Cailum team begins Earthfall.
  Unicorn Gundam vs. Banshee Norn.
  Nahal Argama vs. The sleeves.
  Kshatriya Repaired launches to support the Unicorn.
  Kshatriya Repaired vs Banshee Norn.
  Unicorn Gundam vs Rozen Zulu.
  Marida Cruz dies in battle.
  Rozen Zulu defeated.

Around 00:30:

• The Tristars attack the Cheyenne base forces.
  Bright Noa demands entrance to the colony laser command room.
  Neo Zeong infiltrates Magellanica.
  Banshee Norn pursues.

Around 01:00:

• Banagher and Mineva meet Syam Vist.

Around 01:30 to 01:50:

• Neo Zeong vs Silver Bullet.
  Unicorn Gundam & Banshee Norn vs Neo Zeong.

02:00:

• The colony laser fires.
  Unicorn Gundam & Banshee Norn protect Magellanica with a psycho field.

Around 02:30:

• Mineva announces the secret of the Universal Century Charter.
  Martha is taken into custody by Bright.

Around 03:00:

• Banagher, who lost consciousness, returns to his own body from the calls of his friends.

EPISODE.7 TIME COURSE DURING THE SHOW

05.03 Around 23:00 zulu (16:00 local time):
Earth, North America, Cheyenne Base (Formerly NORAD).

• At the secret control room, the Forest of Kavkaz, activation orders are given to the colony laser.

Around 23:00 zulu:
Low Earth Orbit, Ra Cailum.

• Following a transmission with Kai, they change course for Earth fall and begin atmospheric reentry. (00:30 the following day they arrive at the base)

Around 23:00:
Airspace near Luna II.

• The colony laser Gryps II begins activation.

Around 23:00:
Shoal Zone.

• Unicorn Gundam vs Banshee Norn continue battling.
  Neo Zeon forces lead by the Rozen Zulu make their assault.
  The Nahal Argama fights back.
  The MS Kshatriya Repaired launches from the ship.
  The machine engages the Banshee Norn so that the Unicorn Gundam can defend the ship.
  The Unicorn Gundam & Rozen Zulu engage in battle.
  It's a bitter fight against the Rozen Zulu's Psycho Jammer.
  The Kshatriya Repaired, protecting the Nahal Argama's bridge from a beam from the Banshee Norn, takes a direct hit.
  The Unicorn Gundam destroys the Rozen Zulu's Psycho Jammer.
  The Rozen Zulu and Angelo break down following a NT commune (交感?).

05.04 Around 00:30 zulu:
Shoal Zone.

• The Nahal Argama approaches Industrial 7's Magellanica.
  The Unicorn enters Magellanica.
  The Nahal Argama begins surveillance on their surroundings.
  The Neo Zeon launches from the Rewloola and infiltrates Magellanica.

Around 01:00 zulu:
Inside Magellanica, the cryo room.

• Banagher and Mineva meet with Syam.
  Syam discloses Laplace's Box in the cryo room.
  Frontal interferes.
  Frontal escapes.

Around 01:30 zulu:
Inside Magellanica, Residential Block.

• Gael's guard MS, the Silver Bullet, battles the MA Neo Zeong and is routed.
  The Unicorn and Neo Zeong begin their battle.

Around 01:50 zulu:
Just outside Magellanica.

• The battle ends between the Neo Zeong vs the Unicorn Gundam and Banshee Norn.

Around 01:58 zulu (18:58 local time):
Earth, North America, Cheyenne Base.

• The countdown.

Around 02:00 zulu:
Airspace near Luna II.

• The colony laser, Gryps II, reaches critical and fires.

Shoal zone.

• The laser shot reaches Magellanica.
  The Unicorn Gundam and Banshee Norn deploy a large psycho field.

Around 02:30 zulu:

• "Mineva's speech" broadcast begins from Magellanica.
  It's transmitted to the entire world.
  The space battleship Magellanica activates and departs.

Around 03:00 zulu:

• Situation resolved. The end.

[Kratos]

Is Magellanica ever shown activating and departing in the anime? All I remember is there being a line about its rotation stopping...

[Deacon Blues]

It happens about an hour an nineteen minutes into the episode when Syam's life ends.

[balofo]

Across the Sky manga sequel set in 0096: Rising Sun. New MS by Makoto Ishiwata and new characters. Starts in December

UC is the new OYW

[Deacon Blues]

It should be noted that the title is listed as being "tentative".

[Powerman293]

I like the end of Unicorn. It just that after thinking about it for awhile, it really tears me apart on how I feel if the series ended good or not. The whole charter thing was a cool idea. But after reading some Gundam the origin and listening to some Gundamn, I've changed my opinion from the Charter being good, to being a messed up opportunity.

The reason why I changed my opinion is because I thought about if they revealed the contents of the box at an earlier time in U.C. history. Why would the federation keep the 15th article a secret if there weren't any advanced space people prior to the OYW? If they came out and formally announced the final charter in say, 0055 or something, nobody would give a shit. I agree with Neo in that it should have given the spacenoids independence or something.

[BrentD15]

I like the end of Unicorn. It just that after thinking about it for awhile, it really tears me apart on how I feel if the series ended good or not. The whole charter thing was a cool idea. But after reading some Gundam the origin and listening to some Gundamn, I've changed my opinion from the Charter being good, to being a messed up opportunity.

The reason why I changed my opinion is because I thought about if they revealed the contents of the box at an earlier time in U.C. history. Why would the federation keep the 15th article a secret if there weren't any advanced space people prior to the OYW? If they came out and formally announced the final charter in say, 0055 or something, nobody would give a ZOINKS. I agree with Neo in that it should have given the spacenoids independence or something.

The thing about the Charter's 15th Article is that it doesn't really define what a "space-adapted race" actually is. Newtypes can't fit the definition because people can become Newtypes on Earth, and the spacenoids are still dependent on Earth for resources.

Would this invalidate Zeon Deikun's claims for independence?

[Gundam420]

I'd like to point out that I find it funny that people assume that the article means Newtypes/spacenoids take control of the government, when it states: "In the future, should the emergence of a new space-adapted human race be confirmed, the Earth Federation shall give priority to involving them in the administration of the government."

INVOLVING them in the administration. Not take control of the administration.

[Kratos]

And anyways, the clause being about "Independence" creates a whole host of its own problems. It would grant greater justification to Zeon's actions (which is problematic and at odds with their portrayal, both within and without Unicorn itself), for one. It would also be nonsensical to include, even for an idealist like Ricardo Marcenas. Granting independence to the spacenoids would run counter to the idea of a one-world government, which he presumably believed in as said government's Prime Minister.

I think the 15th Article is a bit of a wacky "prayer" to include, and it's very much up to personal taste whether you buy the Box causing all the drama it does, but I do and I think it works better than most give it credit for.

Why would the federation keep the 15th article a secret if there weren't any advanced space people prior to the OYW? If they came out and formally announced the final charter in say, 0055 or something, nobody would give a ZOINKS.

Much is made of the "tradition" of the Federation living in fear of the Box, and it's also heavily suggested that the terrorist attack at Laplace was carried out by a certain faction within the Federation itself. The modified Charter is evidence of that, and so when Syam grabbed it, he had hard evidence that the Federation would murder en masse rather than risk a potential threat to its hegemony (which guaranteeing automatic political power to a vaguely-defined outside element absolutely is). This idea is even echoed towards the end of the series, when Ronan talks about creating a new "box" by destroying an entire civilian colony to cover up the old conspiracy for good. But yeah, that's probably where their worries stem from.

So why would the Federation still care about that old conspiracy 96 years down the line? Partly because of that tradition; fear of a the Box/appeasement of the Vists is probably a matter of government policy, with only the highest-ups knowing why (or even knowing about it at all; there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Laplace's Box is little more than some vaguely-known myth to most of the general public). But also because the Federation has been greatly weakened (this is mentioned in-series), and much of their current power rests on the public not giving enough of a crap to demand change. If it came out that the Federation had been covering up a mass murder to consolidate its own political power, it could give just enough more of a voice to what is currently a fringe minority, and the Federation can't really deal with that so they'd rather not risk it.

It's not airtight, and lord knows the finale could have focused more on the actual political implications rather than the (poorly-addressed) Newtype stuff - seriously, for a show that was so astute about the Newtype condition for 6 episodes prior, it really bungles things in that last one - but I've never had many of the issues regarding the central conspiracy that others have had.

[Powerman293]

And anyways, the clause being about "Independence" creates a whole host of its own problems. It would grant greater justification to Zeon's actions (which is problematic and at odds with their portrayal, both within and without Unicorn itself), for one. It would also be nonsensical to include, even for an idealist like Ricardo Marcenas. Granting independence to the spacenoids would run counter to the idea of a one-world government, which he presumably believed in as said government's Prime Minister.

I think the 15th Article is a bit of a wacky "prayer" to include, and it's very much up to personal taste whether you buy the Box causing all the drama it does, but I do and I think it works better than most give it credit for.

Why would the federation keep the 15th article a secret if there weren't any advanced space people prior to the OYW? If they came out and formally announced the final charter in say, 0055 or something, nobody would give a ZOINKS.

Much is made of the "tradition" of the Federation living in fear of the Box, and it's also heavily suggested that the terrorist attack at Laplace was carried out by a certain faction within the Federation itself. The modified Charter is evidence of that, and so when Syam grabbed it, he had hard evidence that the Federation would murder en masse rather than risk a potential threat to its hegemony (which guaranteeing automatic political power to a vaguely-defined outside element absolutely is). This idea is even echoed towards the end of the series, when Ronan talks about creating a new "box" by destroying an entire civilian colony to cover up the old conspiracy for good. But yeah, that's probably where their worries stem from.

So why would the Federation still care about that old conspiracy 96 years down the line? Partly because of that tradition; fear of a the Box/appeasement of the Vists is probably a matter of government policy, with only the highest-ups knowing why (or even knowing about it at all; there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Laplace's Box is little more than some vaguely-known myth to most of the general public). But also because the Federation has been greatly weakened (this is mentioned in-series), and much of their current power rests on the public not giving enough of a crap to demand change. If it came out that the Federation had been covering up a mass murder to consolidate its own political power, it could give just enough more of a voice to what is currently a fringe minority, and the Federation can't really deal with that so they'd rather not risk it.

It's not airtight, and lord knows the finale could have focused more on the actual political implications rather than the (poorly-addressed) Newtype stuff - seriously, for a show that was so astute about the Newtype condition for 6 episodes prior, it really bungles things in that last one - but I've never had many of the issues regarding the central conspiracy that others have had.

So what you're saying is that the actual content of the lost article didn't matter, it was the fact that the Federation covered it up that was the big problem that could destroy them?

[Kratos]

Well, more that the content wasn't the sole (or even major) factor in them covering it up. I do think the content matters at least a bit, since like I said above, it provides an easily-manipulated loophole to the Federation's total power over the entire Earth Sphere. While that may not lead to the utter destruction of the Federation, it could certainly be used to break that power. And indeed, we see a Federation with a greatly decreased influence, especially in space, in F91 and Victory. Obviously that wasn't a result of the Box's revelation in those shows, but it at least fits into the framework provided.

The second reason it matters is more for the show itself. That article, hokey as it may be, shows that the "future that was meant to be" was one with a Federation that openly embraced the potential growth of humanity as a result of the Next Big Step into space. One major problem that societies run into is a resistance to change, socially and politically, because of tradition. This change still happens, it just requires bitterly divisive culture wars (at best), which we see all the time in real life. Now, the 15th Article specifies people "adapted to living in space", which could just as easily mean any later-generation colonist. That, in turn, means that the Article gives automatic political representation to those living in space, thereby (in theory) giving a guaranteed voice to the needs of future generations even if the past generations are resistant to their ideas. Instead, it's covered up, and gives a perceived need for violent revolution to those wanting to speak up against the Feds - after all, that was the only thing that truly worked against such governments in the past.

Would the tragedies of the late first century of UC have happened if the Article was included? There's no way to know. But the 15th Article was a prayer that linked the present to the future, and that loss of possibility as well as connection to the events of past series itself make the Article especially apt for what Unicorn is aiming to be.

Such a shame that this is communicated so poorly to the audience, in the end.

[BrentD15]

Well, more that the content wasn't the sole (or even major) factor in them covering it up. I do think the content matters at least a bit, since like I said above, it provides an easily-manipulated loophole to the Federation's total power over the entire Earth Sphere. While that may not lead to the utter destruction of the Federation, it could certainly be used to break that power. And indeed, we see a Federation with a greatly decreased influence, especially in space, in F91 and Victory. Obviously that wasn't a result of the Box's revelation in those shows, but it at least fits into the framework provided.

The second reason it matters is more for the show itself. That article, hokey as it may be, shows that the "future that was meant to be" was one with a Federation that openly embraced the potential growth of humanity as a result of the Next Big Step into space. One major problem that societies run into is a resistance to change, socially and politically, because of tradition. This change still happens, it just requires bitterly divisive culture wars (at best), which we see all the time in real life. Now, the 15th Article specifies people "adapted to living in space", which could just as easily mean any later-generation colonist. That, in turn, means that the Article gives automatic political representation to those living in space, thereby (in theory) giving a guaranteed voice to the needs of future generations even if the past generations are resistant to their ideas. Instead, it's covered up, and gives a perceived need for violent revolution to those wanting to speak up against the Feds - after all, that was the only thing that truly worked against such governments in the past.

Would the tragedies of the late first century of UC have happened if the Article was included? There's no way to know. But the 15th Article was a prayer that linked the present to the future, and that loss of possibility as well as connection to the events of past series itself make the Article especially apt for what Unicorn is aiming to be.

Such a shame that this is communicated so poorly to the audience, in the end.

Could there be such a way to effectively communicate that message?

[Kratos]

The conversation between Syam and Banagher would have been a fine time to do so. Instead it's mostly needlessly obtuse ramblings and puts all the focus (poorly) onto Newtypes - which, don't get me wrong, is a major thematic element too, but a lot of people reacted to the contents of the box with a big "so what?", and that's a problem when it was such a central narrative device. I think it all makes sense when you examine the show as a whole, but there's no moment that prompts the audience to do so, or that ties the events and themes of past episodes to the Magellanica scene. Making the audience think for themselves is good, but summaries and callbacks can be very useful as well, especially when your show is seven installments released over four years. That conversation was a great chance to present that organically, but it didn't.

[BrentD15]

The conversation between Syam and Banagher would have been a fine time to do so. Instead it's mostly needlessly obtuse ramblings and puts all the focus (poorly) onto Newtypes - which, don't get me wrong, is a major thematic element too, but a lot of people reacted to the contents of the box with a big "so what?", and that's a problem when it was such a central narrative device. I think it all makes sense when you examine the show as a whole, but there's no moment that prompts the audience to do so, or that ties the events and themes of past episodes to the Magellanica scene. Making the audience think for themselves is good, but summaries and callbacks can be very useful as well, especially when your show is seven installments released over four years. That conversation was a great chance to present that organically, but it didn't.

I see...

[Kratos]

You, er, don't agree?

[BrentD15]

You, er, don't agree?

I see what you got out of it.

[Powerman293]

Okay, I think I understand more about the Box's importance, with the Federation being exposed for their inside job and increase in power. Actually, the Laplace incident kinda reminds me of those people who accuse the U.S. of 9/11 being an inside job. But it obviously wasn't, but just to draw from stuff in real life.

But I still sort of feel like the content of the article itself was sort of an attempt to say "The Federation cheated Newtypes out of their true destiny!" without explicitly saying so in sort of a semi vague way but just enough to know what they're talking about.

[Kratos]

I think Cardeas believed that the Federation cheated Newtypes (although by his own reasoning, so did Zeon), but that it's also really more of a symptom of the show's message than the main conclusion. As Unicorn goes to rather great lengths to show, Newtypes are a poorly-defined and nebulous concept, and in the end aren't any more immune to the various foibles of humanity precisely because they're still human themselves, and you can see this actively in both Riddhe and Loni. Unless humanity as a whole can move on, Newtypes are pretty meaningless, whether they're being oppressed or not.

[Powerman293]

I think Cardeas believed that the Federation cheated Newtypes (although by his own reasoning, so did Zeon), but that it's also really more of a symptom of the show's message than the main conclusion. As Unicorn goes to rather great lengths to show, Newtypes are a poorly-defined and nebulous concept, and in the end aren't any more immune to the various foibles of humanity precisely because they're still human themselves, and you can see this actively in both Riddhe and Loni. Unless humanity as a whole can move on, Newtypes are pretty meaningless, whether they're being oppressed or not.

Yeah, even if everybody can understand each other without misconceptions, that still isn't gonna stop people from taking advantage of others.

[doghunter1]

And anyways, the clause being about "Independence" creates a whole host of its own problems. It would grant greater justification to Zeon's actions (which is problematic and at odds with their portrayal, both within and without Unicorn itself), for one. It would also be nonsensical to include, even for an idealist like Ricardo Marcenas. Granting independence to the spacenoids would run counter to the idea of a one-world government, which he presumably believed in as said government's Prime Minister.

I think the 15th Article is a bit of a wacky "prayer" to include, and it's very much up to personal taste whether you buy the Box causing all the drama it does, but I do and I think it works better than most give it credit for.

Why would the federation keep the 15th article a secret if there weren't any advanced space people prior to the OYW? If they came out and formally announced the final charter in say, 0055 or something, nobody would give a ZOINKS.

Much is made of the "tradition" of the Federation living in fear of the Box, and it's also heavily suggested that the terrorist attack at Laplace was carried out by a certain faction within the Federation itself. The modified Charter is evidence of that, and so when Syam grabbed it, he had hard evidence that the Federation would murder en masse rather than risk a potential threat to its hegemony (which guaranteeing automatic political power to a vaguely-defined outside element absolutely is). This idea is even echoed towards the end of the series, when Ronan talks about creating a new "box" by destroying an entire civilian colony to cover up the old conspiracy for good. But yeah, that's probably where their worries stem from.

So why would the Federation still care about that old conspiracy 96 years down the line? Partly because of that tradition; fear of a the Box/appeasement of the Vists is probably a matter of government policy, with only the highest-ups knowing why (or even knowing about it at all; there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Laplace's Box is little more than some vaguely-known myth to most of the general public). But also because the Federation has been greatly weakened (this is mentioned in-series), and much of their current power rests on the public not giving enough of a crap to demand change. If it came out that the Federation had been covering up a mass murder to consolidate its own political power, it could give just enough more of a voice to what is currently a fringe minority, and the Federation can't really deal with that so they'd rather not risk it.

It's not airtight, and lord knows the finale could have focused more on the actual political implications rather than the (poorly-addressed) Newtype stuff - seriously, for a show that was so astute about the Newtype condition for 6 episodes prior, it really bungles things in that last one - but I've never had many of the issues regarding the central conspiracy that others have had.

So what you're saying is that the actual content of the lost article didn't matter, it was the fact that the Federation covered it up that was the big problem that could destroy them?

I pretty much agree. I mean, if you are a one world democratic government that lied about your constitution, and if word gets out, there is going to be hell to pay.