The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

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toysdream
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by toysdream » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:27 pm

Yeah, the fact that there was an (edited) replica of the charter monument at Dakar was omitted from the animation until Mineva mentioned it in the middle of her speech in episode 7. This seemed like a pretty major plot point to omit, but since they threw it in at the last minute anyway, it seems like they assumed the audience would already know about it from the novels. Frontal's origin could easily be the same sort of thing.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:08 pm

While I completely agree that OVA 7 felt rushed and probably assumed a lot of novel knowledge, I don't know if the same can be applied to OVA 4. In fact, novel fans seem to be its most outspoken critics; those who have never read them or their summaries tend to come away with a strong impression of the episode, which tells me that the OVA successfully created its own distinct story there. It's not without its issues, most of which crop up in the Torrington City fight, but I don't think it can even be compared to he beautiful mess of OVA 7.
balofo wrote:and remove the more ridiculous rainbow stuff(just stoping Gryps II was enough).
I don't really agree. The rainbow stuff (ie Banagher fusing with the Unicorn) had an important connection to the idea of a "full Newtype" being beyond humanity itself. I actually think it deserved MORE attention, because it's both heavily foreshadowed throughout the show and not entirely clear what exactly happened.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by toysdream » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:25 pm

I expect the main thing novel fans would object to with episode 4 would be the complete revamp of Loni's character, which strikes me as mostly a matter of taste. The actual plot implications of that episode were mostly long-range ones, like the omission of the charter monument, and if you didn't know where the story was going this would only be apparent in hindsight.

Personally, I feel like the changes to the La+ Program's scavenger hunt itinerary were also significant. In the novels, the charter monument is actually a stop on the La+ tour, presumably so that when you finally get the Box you'll understand its significance; the next set of coordinates is for the L1 Junction, the threshold between Earth and space. In the OVAs, they omit both of these, and instead they add Torrington to the list, nominally so we can feel bad for a minute about the colony drop (which nobody actually does) and more likely for the sake of Gundam 0083 nostalgia.

If I recall correctly, then, the OVA version of the La+ breadcrumb trail consists of...

* Fight a Newtype (to unlock the first set of coordinates)
* The wreckage of Laplace
* Torrington base
* Back to Industrial 7

Am I missing anything? Honestly, that doesn't sound like much of a spiritual journey, which was the original point of putting the Unicorn's pilot through a scavenger hunt in the first place. I don't mean to whip up some kind of anti-OVA crusade or spoil things for people who enjoyed it - quite the opposite! - but I kind of wish people would give some more thought to the overall story themes.

-- Mark

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by balofo » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:31 pm

Part of my frustration with the OVA was because OVA 1&2 were very good adaptations of their part of the story even without utilizing the full 60 minute lenght(another thing that pissed me off, OVA 5 was more than 6 minutes short even with the credits+song). Then it started going downhill with OVA 3, with the quality dropping hard with 4 without recovering much with the rest.

IMO: OVA 1=10/10, OVA 2=9,5/10, OVA 3=8/10, OVA 4=6/10, OVA 5=6/10, OVA 6=6/10, OVA 7=5/10

OVA 1 has infinite rewatchability while I'll never watch OVA 7 again...

Seriously who tought sending Bright to space and then moments later send him back to Earth just for a lame Tristars scene was good idea?

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:38 pm

I'll confess that I didn't actually know about the visit to the edited charter monument before this, and I was just thinking about the incredibly short journey to unlock the Box. That actually brings up another gripe I have, albeit a kind of minor one: the Unicorn itself is consistently called the "key" to the box, but it's not really, is it? It's more of a map. I was expecting there to be some final unlock requirement at Magellanica that required a Unicorn that successfully broke all the La+ seals to enter, but not only do Banagher and Mineva seem to make most of the journey on foot, Full Frontal is able to enter with precisely zero trouble! Was this an issue in the novels? It mostly bugs me because the Unicorn Gundam is one of the most consistently well-executed aspects of the series, and it seems weird to fumble its significance like that in the finale.
balofo wrote:Part of my frustration with the OVA was because OVA 1&2 were very good adaptations of their part of the story even without utilizing the full 60 minute lenght(another thing that pissed me off, OVA 5 was more than 6 minutes short even with the credits+song). Then it started going downhill with OVA 3, with the quality dropping hard with 4 without recovering much with the rest.

IMO: OVA 1=10/10, OVA 2=9,5/10, OVA 3=8/10, OVA 4=6/10, OVA 5=6/10, OVA 6=6/10, OVA 7=5/10
I actually think 6 was really really good, though I know it cuts stuff so I could see why a novel fan would dig it less.

My ranking, FWIW: OVA1 gets a full 10, OVA2 and OVA3 and OVA6 get a 9, OVA4 gets an 8, OVA5 a 7, OVA7 a 6.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:11 am

toysdream wrote:Yeah, the fact that there was an (edited) replica of the charter monument at Dakar was omitted from the animation until Mineva mentioned it in the middle of her speech in episode 7. This seemed like a pretty major plot point to omit, but since they threw it in at the last minute anyway, it seems like they assumed the audience would already know about it from the novels. Frontal's origin could easily be the same sort of thing.

-- Mark
Wasn't a shot of the edited replica shown in the Hundred Years of Solitude extra...
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with Tomino's signature in it
?
Well, I guess I'm a nobody...

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by BrentD15 » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:56 am

Deacon Blues wrote:
toysdream wrote:I'd like to think that Full Frontal is an early product of the "Char Continue Project" dedicated to producing a perfect memory clone of the Red Comet. :-)

-- Mark
I'm glad I'm not the only one that though of this... Bah! All the people that laughed at me for it!
It all makes sense now!
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And it ultimately culminates in Gaia Gear! :D
HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Maybe some weird EXAM System style thing was done and a part of Char's spirit was put in him? lol
I'm thinking that might be the case too.
A portion of Char's soul imprinted itself onto the Psycoframe from where Char's memories were extracted. This portion was then implanted into the soldier who's to become Full Frontal during the Cyber Newtype process.
And during the Battle of Industrial 7, this portion rejoined the real Char's spirit, allowing him to become whole once again.
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Admiral Larsen » Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:49 pm

About some of the recent comments here, well I thought that episodes 1,2,and 3 of the VA were strong ones. The problems for me arose when we got to episode 4 (thanks to being spoiled by the details of the novel as well as the Band Dessine manga (in fact I could hear the soundtrack of the OVA matching much better with the manga than the OVA). Episode 5 helped recover some respect for the OVA although it could have been better. 6 was a pretty strong one for me.

As for episode 7, I have to agree that it stressed way too much about newtypes at the cost of other elements. And as for the last scene where Banagher literally comes back from the dead (a part of me is grumbling that perhaps they should have looked at an example from Babylon 5 which had a similar scenario and used that instead).

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Powerman293 » Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:44 pm

I thought episode 7 was really good. Dunno what people flip out about and give it 6s and stuff.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:57 pm

I'm hard on episode 7 because I enjoy the rest of the series so much, and because I find it does a lot of things poorly that earlier episodes did well. But if you want specifics, here ya go!
Roughly in order:

-A poorly-thought-out opening battle that rushed past really important moments (Marida's fight and death), languished on comparatively peripheral events (Conroy fending off grunts), and made poor use of remaining assets (not using the Full Armor Unicorn to blast through the Neo Zeon fleet, and instead having it waste a bunch of missiles Not Hitting the Banshee).

-Doing a generally poor job at tying up some secondary characters and their role on the story. This is especially true of Angelo, Martha, and Alberto. Though I'm glad they cut Angelo's excessive novel backstory, giving the audience insight into why exactly he's so loyal to Frontal specifically could have helped flesh BOTH of them out and was a major missed opportunity. Alberto's connection to Marida was never developed particularly well (and how could he have even sensed her death?), while Martha remained a cypher throughout. Meanwhile, characters like Ensign Mihiro (who was set up to have a major connection to Riddhe that never went anywhere) and even Captain Otto feel relatively flat, likable as they may be.

-Showing Bright's forces descending on the Fed base, but ultimately not showing much of a fight at all, is a waste of time.

-The Unicorn's status as a "key" ultimately having little meaning.

-Kind of nitpicky, but why would Mineva tell Banagher to "come back to her" after all is said and done? What reason does she have to believe that he wouldn't, especially given his loyalty across the rest of the show? The obvious answer is to foreshadow his absorption at the end, but that got plenty of much more subtle and appropriate foreshadowing in earlier episodes, AND it ultimately amounted to nothing anyways (see below).

-A rambly, unfocused speech by Syam, at a moment that would have been perfect to bring together everything we've seen over the past 6-and-a-half episodes. Zero mention of Loni, despite the deliberate and thought-out (and I thought very well-executed and thematically-apt) change to her character. I'd have to watch it again, but I also felt like the decision of what to do with the box depended on narrative predestination, not an organic development of Banagher's thought and worldview.

-The Neo Zeong is excessive, makes no sense in the context of the narrative, and is an even more blatant attempt than usual to leverage the show's popularity for model kit sales. Plus it never does much more than float and shoot and get defeated. It's basically just a space castle. It also would have been nice if the Silver Bullet put up a BIT of a fight against it, since they bothered to include it in the first place.

-Bad communication with the audience, especially in regards to Full Frontal's entire deal. We never find out who he is or where he came from, both key factors to understanding him and the ideals he sticks to. This also applies to Banagher being absorbed into the Unicorn - despite being foreshadowed since at least the third episode, it's not entirely clear that this is what happened until afterwards. Speaking of which...

-YMMV on this (I waffle), but Banagher being able to come back from being absorbed into a Psycoframe is a bit of a cop-out.

I DID give it a 6 though, so obviously I liked SOME stuff. Again, roughly in order:

+The animation was the best it's ever been, and the score was incredible as always. Great use of the various leitmotifs in the episode-specific BGM.

+Riddhe. Although I thought he went psychotic a bit too early (it would have made more sense if he REALLY went off the chain after the psycoframe was activated), I generally get what they were doing with him, and like it.

+Zinnerman was a highlight, as always.

+The Newtype elements, with the possible exception of Marida's ghost, were wonderfully executed and consistent with what has been established in Unicorn and elsewhere. I especially like the blocking of the colony at the end.

+Another YMMV thing, because plenty seem to disagree with me here, but the Box itself. I've expressed dissatisfaction with how it's discussed and presented in the episode, but the actual contents are fine and dandy and work well with the themes of the show. That was an important thing to get right, and I'm glad they did.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Admiral Larsen » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:44 am

Kratos wrote:I'm hard on episode 7 because I enjoy the rest of the series so much, and because I find it does a lot of things poorly that earlier episodes did well. But if you want specifics, here ya go!
Roughly in order:

-A poorly-thought-out opening battle that rushed past really important moments (Marida's fight and death), languished on comparatively peripheral events (Conroy fending off grunts), and made poor use of remaining assets (not using the Full Armor Unicorn to blast through the Neo Zeon fleet, and instead having it waste a bunch of missiles Not Hitting the Banshee).

-Doing a generally poor job at tying up some secondary characters and their role on the story. This is especially true of Angelo, Martha, and Alberto. Though I'm glad they cut Angelo's excessive novel backstory, giving the audience insight into why exactly he's so loyal to Frontal specifically could have helped flesh BOTH of them out and was a major missed opportunity. Alberto's connection to Marida was never developed particularly well (and how could he have even sensed her death?), while Martha remained a cypher throughout. Meanwhile, characters like Ensign Mihiro (who was set up to have a major connection to Riddhe that never went anywhere) and even Captain Otto feel relatively flat, likable as they may be.

-Showing Bright's forces descending on the Fed base, but ultimately not showing much of a fight at all, is a waste of time.

-The Unicorn's status as a "key" ultimately having little meaning.

-Kind of nitpicky, but why would Mineva tell Banagher to "come back to her" after all is said and done? What reason does she have to believe that he wouldn't, especially given his loyalty across the rest of the show? The obvious answer is to foreshadow his absorption at the end, but that got plenty of much more subtle and appropriate foreshadowing in earlier episodes, AND it ultimately amounted to nothing anyways (see below).

-A rambly, unfocused speech by Syam, at a moment that would have been perfect to bring together everything we've seen over the past 6-and-a-half episodes. Zero mention of Loni, despite the deliberate and thought-out (and I thought very well-executed and thematically-apt) change to her character. I'd have to watch it again, but I also felt like the decision of what to do with the box depended on narrative predestination, not an organic development of Banagher's thought and worldview.

-The Neo Zeong is excessive, makes no sense in the context of the narrative, and is an even more blatant attempt than usual to leverage the show's popularity for model kit sales. Plus it never does much more than float and shoot and get defeated. It's basically just a space castle. It also would have been nice if the Silver Bullet put up a BIT of a fight against it, since they bothered to include it in the first place.

-Bad communication with the audience, especially in regards to Full Frontal's entire deal. We never find out who he is or where he came from, both key factors to understanding him and the ideals he sticks to. This also applies to Banagher being absorbed into the Unicorn - despite being foreshadowed since at least the third episode, it's not entirely clear that this is what happened until afterwards. Speaking of which...

-YMMV on this (I waffle), but Banagher being able to come back from being absorbed into a Psycoframe is a bit of a cop-out.

I DID give it a 6 though, so obviously I liked SOME stuff. Again, roughly in order:

+The animation was the best it's ever been, and the score was incredible as always. Great use of the various leitmotifs in the episode-specific BGM.

+Riddhe. Although I thought he went psychotic a bit too early (it would have made more sense if he REALLY went off the chain after the psycoframe was activated), I generally get what they were doing with him, and like it.

+Zinnerman was a highlight, as always.

+The Newtype elements, with the possible exception of Marida's ghost, were wonderfully executed and consistent with what has been established in Unicorn and elsewhere. I especially like the blocking of the colony at the end.

+Another YMMV thing, because plenty seem to disagree with me here, but the Box itself. I've expressed dissatisfaction with how it's discussed and presented in the episode, but the actual contents are fine and dandy and work well with the themes of the show. That was an important thing to get right, and I'm glad they did.

About the battle, a part of me is glad that they didn't use the Full Armor Unicorn blasting its way through the entire Neo Zeon fleet, particularly by itself. Then again with the Unicorn eventually doing most of the blasting with only a few weapons...

Definitely they missed out on showing the back stories of some of the characters, particularly Martha and Alberto Vist.

A completely waste of Bright in the episode as well as the Jestas.

The use of the Neo Zeong was an enormous waste along with not truly revealing what Full Frontal really was.

And I already mentioned about Banagher from coming back from the dead as well as the Unicorn Gundam being on a power level close to the SEED Destiny suits (of which you all know my opinion on).

I just hope that Bande Dessine does a better job than what the OVA did with its ending.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:17 am

My biggest issue with the FA Unicorn is that it basically exists for no reason in the OVA. That kind of firepower isn't great for taking out regular MS; it seems like it would be better used to clear a path for the Nahel Argama (or maybe chip away at the Neo Zeong if that monstrosity HAS to be there). I think the most effective thing it does, outside of its usual capabilities, is hit an enemy MS with one fuel tank and cause a massive explosion with the other. I'd be all for more curb-stomping by the RX-0 if it meant actually DOING something with the upgraded form.

As for the Unicorn's power in general, it doesn't bother me, for a few reasons: it's written into the narrative well, is a logical extension of existing UC technology with a solid motive behind its creation, and isn't unleashed to its full potential until the finale. If it was a hax solution to every problem in the show, I'd probably take issue with it, but it's only very occasionally used in a way that can be described as deus ex machina (and a lot of those are debatable).
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Blazer-X » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:37 am

Kratos wrote:My biggest issue with the FA Unicorn is that it basically exists for no reason in the OVA. That kind of firepower isn't great for taking out regular MS; it seems like it would be better used to clear a path for the Nahel Argama (or maybe chip away at the Neo Zeong if that monstrosity HAS to be there). I think the most effective thing it does, outside of its usual capabilities, is hit an enemy MS with one fuel tank and cause a massive explosion with the other. I'd be all for more curb-stomping by the RX-0 if it meant actually DOING something with the upgraded form.

As for the Unicorn's power in general, it doesn't bother me, for a few reasons: it's written into the narrative well, is a logical extension of existing UC technology with a solid motive behind its creation, and isn't unleashed to its full potential until the finale. If it was a hax solution to every problem in the show, I'd probably take issue with it, but it's only very occasionally used in a way that can be described as deus ex machina (and a lot of those are debatable).
So much this! They had a chance to re-equip it with all the weapons post-first battle so that it could have something to throw at Neo Zeong for the finale, but all they reattached were 3 shields. Either have to blow through an army or giant MA or not use it at all. Fighting Banshee Norn while having a third of its weapon discarded even before going Destroy mode just felt like a waste.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Admiral Larsen » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:16 am

Kratos wrote:My biggest issue with the FA Unicorn is that it basically exists for no reason in the OVA. That kind of firepower isn't great for taking out regular MS; it seems like it would be better used to clear a path for the Nahel Argama (or maybe chip away at the Neo Zeong if that monstrosity HAS to be there). I think the most effective thing it does, outside of its usual capabilities, is hit an enemy MS with one fuel tank and cause a massive explosion with the other. I'd be all for more curb-stomping by the RX-0 if it meant actually DOING something with the upgraded form.

As for the Unicorn's power in general, it doesn't bother me, for a few reasons: it's written into the narrative well, is a logical extension of existing UC technology with a solid motive behind its creation, and isn't unleashed to its full potential until the finale. If it was a hax solution to every problem in the show, I'd probably take issue with it, but it's only very occasionally used in a way that can be described as deus ex machina (and a lot of those are debatable).
Actually you mentioned why I think that perhaps one wished the RX-0 Unicorn Gundam would have had all of its weapons instead of only few. What happened in the OVA during those scenes, felt to me of showing the Unicorn being way too powerful (even before the newtype situations came up).

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:33 am

I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by "all its weapons" - does it have more in the novels? And why would having them make it come off as less over-powered?
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Blazer-X » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:21 am

Kratos wrote:I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by "all its weapons" - does it have more in the novels? And why would having them make it come off as less over-powered?
By the time "FA" Unicorn fights against the Neo Zeon army, it only has one shield gatling and a borrowed Beam Launcher, which is a lot less than the full armament it carries as FA Unicorn. Takes away the "fully-armed" feel of the MS and also makes its feats that much more impressive that its basically disabling so many enemy MS with only about a quarter of its armaments compared to the novels.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Kratos » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:31 am

Ah, I gotcha.

I dunno, though. The Unicorn performing well (even outside the Newtype stuff) is basically par for the Gundam course. It's a high-performance Federation prototype designed to be the ultimate Newtype MS killer, of course it's going to dominate, especially in Destroy Mode (which I'm pretty sure it's in from the moment it activates against Riddhe until Angelo traps it). It doesn't really bug enough to take me out of things (though I kiiind of think that the disabling thing is a little bit much). That battle has more issues than the Unicorn being...well, a lead Gundam machine.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:50 pm

So there will be three complete setting books released next year for Gundam UC. The first one will be a whopping 1200 pages long and span episodes 1-3... release date is January 29th. The second will be released on march 27th covering episodes 4-6 and the last will be released on May 29th. Preorders available now for the first box.

*ponders getting two*

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by Powerman293 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:35 am

Maybe the suits from Hathaway's flash that we seen in episode 7 will lead into a Hathaway's flash OVA series. they could explain that the reason the Unicorns don't show up in any conflicts F91 and onward is because the Federation saw the damage a little bit of psyco technology in the Xi could do if it fell into the wrong hands so they would destroy/ dissasemble the suits to prevent any potiental massive damage and no longer put any psycoframe technology into their gundams

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VII

Post by BrentD15 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:00 am

Powerman293 wrote:Maybe the suits from Hathaway's flash that we seen in episode 7 will lead into a Hathaway's flash OVA series. they could explain that the reason the Unicorns don't show up in any conflicts F91 and onward is because the Federation saw the damage a little bit of psyco technology in the Xi could do if it fell into the wrong hands so they would destroy/ dissasemble the suits to prevent any potiental massive damage and no longer put any psycoframe technology into their gundams
Yeah, that sounds like a good idea.

And is it wrong that I find Hathaway's Flash as being possible even with the animated Char's Counterattack?
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

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