Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Regild

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gunform1010
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Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Regild

Post by gunform1010 » Sun May 04, 2014 12:10 am

We know that the canon is contradictory since there's no one timeline set in stone by Sunrise/Bandai. However, what do the fans think the canon works are in this timeline?

For me, I think it's Origin, Igloo, MSG Compilation Movies, 08th MS Team, 0080, 0083, Zeta TV series, ZZ, CCA, Unicorn, F91, Victory, and Reconguista. Not sure about G-Savior... I heard I might not.

The compilation movies I support because of the Core Booster being used in Char's flashback in CCA and the 108 being present in Hayato's museum. I support ZZ Gundam because of Marida being Ple-Twelve and Glemy being part of her flashback. Because of the second thing, I support the Zeta TV Series as without Kamille being "light-raped", Judau would not have been introduced to the Argama and its crew.
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by monster » Sun May 04, 2014 12:21 am

From the point of view of Reconguista, it might not really matter what officially happened in UC. Just that, at one point, the accepted calendar system is called the Universal Century and that the development of mobile weapons happened during that time, which would point, generally speaking, to the One Year War.

Everything else is probably minor details in comparison.

To that end, I support the idea of G-Saviour as being the only/best known piece of history from the UC era.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Sun May 04, 2014 12:25 am

Monster, I love your self-description.

Anyway, I guess I'll try G-Savior.
Any other works missing that I should consider?
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by monster » Sun May 04, 2014 12:34 am

I think you've mentioned pretty much mentioned every filmed/animated works.

Also, as far as trying G-Saviour, keep in mind that my support for it is solely due to it's place in the timeline, being closer to Reconguista than all other works.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Sun May 04, 2014 12:41 am

Ok.
But is my theory solid?
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by monster » Sun May 04, 2014 1:00 am

Well, since you've mentioned pretty much every official works, it's as solid as any. Like I said, I don't think the details would matter so much. Of course, it just depends on how much reference Tomino would use, if any.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Sun May 04, 2014 2:07 am

Where does "Mayfly of Space" fit in for watching order, while we're on this subject...
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by monster » Sun May 04, 2014 2:33 am

gunform1010 wrote:Where does "Mayfly of Space" fit in for watching order, while we're on this subject...
I guess next to 0083.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Mon May 05, 2014 9:37 am

Well there technically is a "canon" according to Sunrise. Everything animated is "official" and everything else is "unofficial." I believe they do state that the MSG trilogy is the official version of the animated story.
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Mon May 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Arbiter GUNDAM wrote:Well there technically is a "canon" according to Sunrise. Everything animated is "official" and everything else is "unofficial." I believe they do state that the MSG trilogy is the official version of the animated story.
Gotta give me a source man.
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon May 05, 2014 9:19 pm

This is something that's been established for years, from an interview translated by our friend Mark Simmons. Sunrise even singled out popular stories like Blue Destiny and Crossbone Gundam and said that they're great stories and did an excellent job of cleaving to the established universe, but since they aren't animated they don't count the way things like Zeta or G do.
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Tue May 06, 2014 2:45 am

Oh sorry, I meant only the second part, in which the Trilogy IS the story of the White Base

Also, what about stuff in Gundam Evolve?
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by Ceiling_Squid » Tue May 06, 2014 10:20 pm

Don't dismiss side stories in fan discussion, however! They make good material for fleshing out the setting beyond the initial animated works.

Here's how I see it: If you want a softball rule, think of the old Star Wars canon (until Disney obliterated everything).

Canon from different sources was rated differently on levels of canonicity, based on its proximity to the actual movies.

Gundam has, at least based on recent treatment from the writers, probably developed a similar, unspoken arrangement. The only actual word you're going to get from Sunrise is that the anime are "official", and everything else is "unofficial". But in practical application, there are definitely preferred levels of canonicity in the way they seem to treat certain side stories.

When constructing a view of the overall UC continuity, consider these questions: What side stories are getting referenced the most in supplemental material? What's getting model kits? What's being obliquely referenced or even making a cameo in the official animated work? What's actually making some money for Sunrise/Bandai? What hasn't be contradicted by existing canon?

That's why we can reasonably say that obscure stuff like Moon Crisis, or Silhouette Formula, or Tyrant Sword are probably downright non-canon, because the writers and creative staff don't turn to stuff like that for material anymore. These things don't generally get model kits, or cameos, or game appearances nowadays, after they were initially developed.

Stuff like Sentinel , Hathaway's Flash , and Crossbone Gundam -- Now that stuff's veering towards semi-official, because they've had appearances recently in model kits and games. It's still not technically "official", but the materials from these side stories still make them some money. And the writers don't seem to be explicitly contradicting most of this non-animated material. They seem to take the existence of these stories into account, underscored now with Unicorn throwing around the Z Plus and the Gustav Karl in cameos. They're treating them as if they were always there in the timeline, without having to do any major backflips to write them into the animated continuity.

But yes, all of this is my speculation. Actual official material is only ever explicitly what Sunrise says it is, and all the cameos in the world do not make a side story canon until the events are either mentioned or depicted in an animated work. But the subject title is "Fan consensus", so there you go, OP.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by toysdream » Tue May 06, 2014 10:42 pm

As I noted in this thread, the latest edition of the MS Encyclopedia suggests there's an in-between category of "semi-official" where the mecha is concerned. This seems, however, to be stuff like variation series and side stories produced under Sunrise supervision; games, and side stories produced without Sunrise supervision, remain firmly unofficial.

In particular, Crossbone Gundam - despite its fan popularity and representation in games, toys, and model kits - is not only unofficial, but isn't even included in the MS Encyclopedia.

We've had a lot (a LOT!) of threads about this already. The aforementioned one on the MS Encyclopedia might be a good one to look at.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by gunform1010 » Wed May 07, 2014 11:56 pm

So, if it's unofficial, does it have no hope in the timeline at all?
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by Kratos » Thu May 08, 2014 12:07 am

My understanding of it is this: at the "unofficial" level, you - the fan - have all the freedom you want to play with the pieces. If an "unofficial" story is good, enjoy it without a thought towards its officiality; if it sucks, you have the ability to ignore it entirely. Gundam, perhaps more than most franchises that we're used to here in the West, is very agreeable with the concept of a head canon. Just pick what you want/like and run with it. And this is the case within the official world, too - anything animated is official, meaning that the MSG TV series and movies are both "official" works. Pick the one you like and roll with it.

The "official" series matter insofar as they're what new material should use as a guideline, be it another official series in a given timeline or an unofficial manga spinoff. But even this is kinda played fast and loose with (see manga remakes and novelizations). I wouldn't worry so much about the concept of canon and officiality and "proper" timelines and whatnot; for us, about the only good it does is settle the odd argument on the internet anyways.
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by Heaven Piercing Man » Thu May 08, 2014 5:22 am

Ceiling, this is offtopic but a small tip: Lucasfilm never considered the EU canon, to them it was just licensed fanfiction. The canon system was a way to not alienate EU fans, but the sequel trilogy forced them to come out and reaffirm their position. Disney had nothing to do with it, they just manage RP and corporate stuff.
gunform1010 wrote:Oh sorry, I meant only the second part, in which the Trilogy IS the story of the White Base

Also, what about stuff in Gundam Evolve?
On topic, about the MSG trilogy, I believe they give it more precedence because of it being the distilled version of the story, and the cameos in later UC works. You can see Hayato's movie-only Guncannon in the Zeta series, and CCA's flashback to Lalah's death includes Sayla's Core Booster instead of the G-Fighter.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Thu May 08, 2014 10:05 am

Heaven Piercing Man wrote:Ceiling, this is offtopic but a small tip: Lucasfilm never considered the EU canon, to them it was just licensed fanfiction. The canon system was a way to not alienate EU fans, but the sequel trilogy forced them to come out and reaffirm their position. Disney had nothing to do with it, they just manage RP and corporate stuff.
Technically they DID consider, at one point, parts of the EU to be canon. When they realized what a clusterfrak the EU had become, they invented their categorization system. The six movies were G-Level, the highest and utterly indisputable level there was. Most everything else was C and D level canon with some stuff being S-Level aka the only outright non-canon stuff. Where it got really weird is where they would say that a given book or comic or game or whatever would be partly one level of canon and partly another. How does that make any sense! Of course they've reorganized things in the wake of the new trilogy. I bring this up as it's an excellent example of what not to do. Sunrise keeps it simple. :)
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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by SonicSP » Thu May 08, 2014 5:16 pm

I personally preferred Star Wars old system to the Gundam system to be honest, even if the latter gives you more freedom as an individual.

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Re: Fan Consensus on Canon in UC and Reguild

Post by excalibur2008 » Fri May 09, 2014 12:03 am

SonicSP wrote:I personally preferred Star Wars old system to the Gundam system to be honest, even if the latter gives you more freedom as an individual.
What Lucas lying to you about the EU meaning something other than a possible idea mine.

I mean seriously people act like they only started rewriting stuff when Disney bought it.

Case in point the Thrawn trilogy has a very different idea of the Clone Wars from what the prequels eventually showed.

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