Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

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BrentD15
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by BrentD15 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:37 am

HellCat wrote:Don't fully agree that Saji and Louise have no point if you remove the wedding massacre, but then I seem to be in the 1% that liked them from the get go.

As for Wang- she sees herself as more important than anyone else and tries to get in good with every faction just in case they prove to be the ultimate winners. This is why she helped Celestial Being and then quietly went and courted Trinity when they were on a winning streak.
And then in Season 2, she just supports whoever has the power to "change the world" regardless of what said "change" entails, which is why she started supporting the Innovators. She even supported them after Ribbons slapped her (and the fans rejoiced).

So yeah, however much we want to say otherwise, the poor development of the 00 characters (Nena and Wang especially) prevents them from being saveable.
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

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HellCat
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by HellCat » Sun May 18, 2014 11:46 am

BrentD15 wrote:
HellCat wrote:Don't fully agree that Saji and Louise have no point if you remove the wedding massacre, but then I seem to be in the 1% that liked them from the get go.

As for Wang- she sees herself as more important than anyone else and tries to get in good with every faction just in case they prove to be the ultimate winners. This is why she helped Celestial Being and then quietly went and courted Trinity when they were on a winning streak.
And then in Season 2, she just supports whoever has the power to "change the world" regardless of what said "change" entails, which is why she started supporting the Innovators. She even supported them after Ribbons slapped her (and the fans rejoiced).

So yeah, however much we want to say otherwise, the poor development of the 00 characters (Nena and Wang especially) prevents them from being saveable.
Well, no. I'd say her season 2 actions are mostly identical to the ones she performs in season 1, it's just their are fewer factions and her game is more obvious. Ribbons for instance only seems to humour her because she allows him a mole within Celestial Being and as soon as the Twin Drive appears, he gets Wang to insert Anew as a more direct and loyal agent.

I know her motivation might not be the stuff of legend but I think it's understandable. She's a young woman who was forced to become the head of a powerful family when her elder brother was declared not worthy for lacking the talents she has. She resents being given such a task and so uses the resources it grants her to go for a share of ultimate power and make shifty deals with various big factions. That in of itself lines up with the fact we're told in books that a majority of Observers were the same; the rich and powerful that CB got funding from by getting them in on the ground floor of the new world order, something which was both the biggest risk and opportunity to them. Wang survived longer then any of them because she was careful enough to make keeping her alive a better prospect and as season 2 goes on even she isn't happy with what Ribbons is doing to the wider world.
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JDogindy
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by JDogindy » Sun May 18, 2014 6:15 pm

BrentD15 wrote:
HellCat wrote:Don't fully agree that Saji and Louise have no point if you remove the wedding massacre, but then I seem to be in the 1% that liked them from the get go.

As for Wang- she sees herself as more important than anyone else and tries to get in good with every faction just in case they prove to be the ultimate winners. This is why she helped Celestial Being and then quietly went and courted Trinity when they were on a winning streak.
And then in Season 2, she just supports whoever has the power to "change the world" regardless of what said "change" entails, which is why she started supporting the Innovators. She even supported them after Ribbons slapped her (and the fans rejoiced).

So yeah, however much we want to say otherwise, the poor development of the 00 characters (Nena and Wang especially) prevents them from being saveable.
Yeah, this pretty much says why those two are doomed. If 00 didn't bother with them (and in Nena's case, derailed any possible development quickly), then SRW certainly won't. I hope you guys won't mind me discussing Nena a littlebit on the forum.

@HellCat: That is an awful thorough discussion and defense of Liu Mei's character, but I'm in the majority that felt her motivation was cloudy at best and her backstory was never really explored. But a lot of characters had those problems.

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BrentD15
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by BrentD15 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:37 pm

JDogindy wrote:
BrentD15 wrote:
HellCat wrote:Don't fully agree that Saji and Louise have no point if you remove the wedding massacre, but then I seem to be in the 1% that liked them from the get go.

As for Wang- she sees herself as more important than anyone else and tries to get in good with every faction just in case they prove to be the ultimate winners. This is why she helped Celestial Being and then quietly went and courted Trinity when they were on a winning streak.
And then in Season 2, she just supports whoever has the power to "change the world" regardless of what said "change" entails, which is why she started supporting the Innovators. She even supported them after Ribbons slapped her (and the fans rejoiced).

So yeah, however much we want to say otherwise, the poor development of the 00 characters (Nena and Wang especially) prevents them from being saveable.
Yeah, this pretty much says why those two are doomed. If 00 didn't bother with them (and in Nena's case, derailed any possible development quickly), then SRW certainly won't. I hope you guys won't mind me discussing Nena a littlebit on the forum.

@HellCat: That is an awful thorough discussion and defense of Liu Mei's character, but I'm in the majority that felt her motivation was cloudy at best and her backstory was never really explored. But a lot of characters had those problems.
No problem at all.
And yeah, character development for 00S2 was rather botched, leaving it to the side-material instead.
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teslashark
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Sun May 18, 2014 9:00 pm

Now I had a feeling that G Generation series is the sandbox version of SRW. You can be totally fulfilling or apathetic in your team arrangement. Though, there are no longer any GB/Monoeye series so you can only imagine yourself when you suddenly feel an urge to be mean (or promote understanding) then assign Nena and Louise into the same team or on the same bridge crew.
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JDogindy
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by JDogindy » Wed May 21, 2014 12:20 pm

teslashark wrote:Now I had a feeling that G Generation series is the sandbox version of SRW. You can be totally fulfilling or apathetic in your team arrangement. Though, there are no longer any GB/Monoeye series so you can only imagine yourself when you suddenly feel an urge to be mean (or promote understanding) then assign Nena and Louise into the same team or on the same bridge crew.
It is sort of the sandbox variant where you can utilize who you want in what you want, provided they are in the game.

The only problem with this situation is that it's sort of an artificial enviroment, which is what you refer to. There isn't any real feedback between the characters, and in trying to add more of them, data was removed, and the only instance of true originality in the series is how they scream "SHINING FINGER!".

That's why people will look up to SRW as the end-all, be-all discussion about "saving" characters, while SD Generation will be looked at as Gundam fanboy paradise. Not that I'm complaining, as I'll probably play Generations far more often than SRW because of those reasons. Hey, that's me.

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