Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

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Kuruni
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Kuruni » Wed May 07, 2014 10:32 pm

Speaking of G Generation DS, you can actually save Cima in normal route (although I think you need to beat the game once) with some power of friendship. It's done by has Char speak up for her when Axis officer denied her access, he'll point out that Cima simply follow her order and unaware of the mission's true nature. Ultimately, Char and other insist that they either take her along, or leave them all with her.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Thu May 08, 2014 12:19 am

Kuruni wrote:Speaking of G Generation DS, you can actually save Cima in normal route (although I think you need to beat the game once) with some power of friendship. It's done by has Char speak up for her when Axis officer denied her access, he'll point out that Cima simply follow her order and unaware of the mission's true nature. Ultimately, Char and other insist that they either take her along, or leave them all with her.
No, you only need to clear the preceding stage in less than 7 turns (i.e. do some AI-hunting first). I think she is picked by people other than Char because in the colony dropping mission she is on Delaz's side and follows Johnny Riden afterwards.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Kuruni » Thu May 08, 2014 4:38 am

Hmm? I remmebr there are two routes, one which follow 0083 where Cima end up join Titans afterward, and another where Cima help protecting Axis from Titans's nukes.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Android raptor » Thu May 08, 2014 3:37 pm

Can't believe I forgot to mention Cima! Granted I'd say her status as a villain in the first place is somewhat debatable, as she might fit better as an antagonist/antihero thing.

Gato maaaaybe, though you'd have to get him to stop being such a raging Giren fanboy (something I'm not sure is possible).
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Thu May 08, 2014 8:27 pm

Android raptor wrote:Can't believe I forgot to mention Cima! Granted I'd say her status as a villain in the first place is somewhat debatable, as she might fit better as an antagonist/antihero thing.

Gato maaaaybe, though you'd have to get him to stop being such a raging Giren fanboy (something I'm not sure is possible).
To stop Gato from following the "Justice of Zeon" will be a considerable feat, because his idealogy is just justifying mass killing and racism.
Cima has no share in this spacenoid prejudice because she is a second-rate spacenoid and undesirable herself. Seriously, Cima didn't do anything objectionable to the Federation in 0083, instead it's the Albion rebelling and fighting against the effort to stop Delaz.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Nikkolas » Fri May 09, 2014 1:21 am

...wasn't she complicit in the whole destruction of most of the Federation's fleet in order to help Jamitov subvert the government and create the cartoonishly evil Titans? Pretty sure that counts as doing something objectionable.

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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Fri May 09, 2014 1:48 am

Nikkolas wrote:...wasn't she complicit in the whole destruction of most of the Federation's fleet in order to help Jamitov subvert the government and create the cartoonishly evil Titans? Pretty sure that counts as doing something objectionable.
Last I saw, it's unknown just how deeply involved she was, but I doubt the higher-up conspirators would trust a former Zeon, disgruntled or not, with much of their planning, so as far as we know, all Cima really did was provide information and details about the goals of Operation Stardust and promising to deliver Delaz to the Federation all in exchange for money for those services.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by JDogindy » Sat May 17, 2014 4:51 pm

Personally, I've always had a soft spot for the Trinities. Admittingly, they are my favorite characters from 00. Yes, they are sociopaths and they aren't sympathetic figures, but just hear me out.
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However, "Saving" them requires some serious thinking, especially since they are linear-minded (not ignorant, but were fed the wrong information) and cannot function in society. Nena might be a character that could be saved, but only if the effort was put there in which she realized that, after her brothers died, killing people sucks and does hurt, but in her case, it'll always be between "dying a hero" and "being another random fatality". Season 2 didn't bother with her until it was time for her to be offed, and Saisei-hen had her vent openly about how she doesn't want to serve the Innovators, and how ZEXIS was nothing but jerks to her, so she'd do things on her own terms for the remaining 5 minutes of her life.

I personally do hope that the next SRW game that features Nena might consider parameters that can make her be "savable" until she dies in the final battle, but that requires modifying her moral event horizon crossing as much as possible.

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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Sat May 17, 2014 7:18 pm

That wedding blasting. It's a scene worthy of satirizing up to the point of schadenfreude. But without it Saji and Louise have no meaning of life...
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by JDogindy » Sat May 17, 2014 8:42 pm

teslashark wrote:That wedding blasting. It's a scene worthy of satirizing up to the point of schadenfreude. But without it Saji and Louise have no meaning of life...
There's the problem. To undo what made Nena hated so much by the West means undoing a lot of Season 2's elements, including Saji joining CB and Ribbons manipulating Louise. You can do whatever you want with that scene, but in the end, Nena's gonna blow the wrong place up and die in vain because of it years later.

But I still think she could be saved if they did bother developing her instead of having her go back to being a totally insane trigger-happy psycho. Of the three, she is my favorite, although you can't say I got Kugimiya Disease when I listened to Bouma first XD.

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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Sat May 17, 2014 10:42 pm

JDogindy wrote:
There's the problem. To undo what made Nena hated so much by the West means undoing a lot of Season 2's elements, including Saji joining CB and Ribbons manipulating Louise. You can do whatever you want with that scene, but in the end, Nena's gonna blow the wrong place up and die in vain because of it years later.

But I still think she could be saved if they did bother developing her instead of having her go back to being a totally insane trigger-happy psycho. Of the three, she is my favorite, although you can't say I got Kugimiya Disease when I listened to Bouma first XD.
And there's Liumei. What actually is point for them to make her against CB and pretty much everyone in the competition?
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sat May 17, 2014 11:08 pm

You'll have to pardon me if I doubt the kind of person who blows up a wedding out of sheer spite and tries to avoid blame afterwards by acting cutesy will EVER be a part of the good guys in SRW.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Sat May 17, 2014 11:13 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote:You'll have to pardon me if I doubt the kind of person who blows up a wedding out of sheer spite and tries to avoid blame afterwards by acting cutesy will EVER be a part of the good guys in SRW.
Annnd if we keep her half an earth away from that wedding then Saji and louse will be so knackered in the larger picture.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sat May 17, 2014 11:16 pm

Exactly. People were upset about certain characters being unsaveable in Z2 (namely the big deaths from 00 Season 1, Geass Season 1, and the first part of Gurren Lagann), but they were all too plot-critical to be removed. Likewise, the wedding attack is incredibly important because it's what results in Saji being with Celestial Being and Louise with the A-LAWS in Season 2, so just saying "that didn't happen" as an excuse to make Nena recruitable...no.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Raikoh » Sat May 17, 2014 11:54 pm

They've had crazier recruits in SRW. Some of them not even being secret characters.

I think the real thing with Nena is that she could've had a really interesting character arc that would've been a great example of character development, as well as one that would tie in with 00's recurring themes, but instead she just went the other way and became a bigger nutball in S2.
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun May 18, 2014 12:24 am

Wasn't Asuham's whole deal just that Gain slept with his sister and then walked out on her?
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by Raikoh » Sun May 18, 2014 12:27 am

...And then he decided that gives him reason to want to destroy the entire world with the Overdevil, yes. Before even asking for the whole story from his sister
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because at the end she tells him that SHE intended it just as a one-night stand as well.
And he's a mandatory recruit in SRW K. I remember just asking myself "What?"
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by teslashark » Sun May 18, 2014 1:02 am

[quote.="Raikoh"]...And then he decided that gives him reason to want to destroy the entire world with the Overdevil, yes. Before even asking for the whole story from his sister
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because at the end she tells him that SHE intended it just as a one-night stand as well.
And he's a mandatory recruit in SRW K. I remember just asking myself "What?"[/quote]
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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun May 18, 2014 1:34 am

I think with Yazan it's more a case of "I hate these guys, but their enemy wants to destroy the universe and that's where I keep all my stuff, so I guess I've got no choice."
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

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Re: Gundam Villains - Who Can Be Saved?

Post by HellCat » Sun May 18, 2014 7:23 am

Don't fully agree that Saji and Louise have no point if you remove the wedding massacre, but then I seem to be in the 1% that liked them from the get go.

As for Wang- she sees herself as more important than anyone else and tries to get in good with every faction just in case they prove to be the ultimate winners. This is why she helped Celestial Being and then quietly went and courted Trinity when they were on a winning streak.
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