The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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zetatype
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:45 am

Well....crap that just happened
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Granted Messer was already throwing up death flags with the whole Var syndrome, but I wasn't expecting it to happen in this episode especially given how light hearted the first half was.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:47 am

I guess I must be the only one whose reaction to what happened in the latter half of this episode can be summed up as "meh".
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It's probably because Messer is a character who, even with the marginal development he has received, I not only didn't like, but I didn't find all that interesting. But his death didn't really affect me all that much. Really, the only level on which it bothered me is that it's a horrible experience for Kaname, who(for some unfathomable reason) did like Mr. "Serious Business, to go through - and that's because her I do like.
I found the first half of the episode to be quite enjoyable though I think the best part had to be Mirage's reactions, which were equal parts adorable and hilarious, IMO.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:31 am

Dark Duel wrote:I guess I must be the only one whose reaction to what happened in the latter half of this episode can be summed up as "meh".
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It's probably because Messer is a character who, even with the marginal development he has received, I not only didn't like, but I didn't find all that interesting. But his death didn't really affect me all that much. Really, the only level on which it bothered me is that it's a horrible experience for Kaname, who(for some unfathomable reason) did like Mr. "Serious Business, to go through - and that's because her I do like.
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actually it does feel like they killed off Messer a tad too quickly. I feel like the show could have gotten one more episode out of him before axing him.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Nagato21 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:38 pm

Well there was a lot of foreshadowing but seriously its like they killed him to make the show a tad more dramatic, as if having a small kid singing brainwashing songs to the death is not enough.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:31 pm

Maybe they'll pull an Ozma on us. THAT was a troll.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:07 pm

Compass wrote:Maybe they'll pull an Ozma on us. THAT was a troll.
The odds of survival are closer to Michel's than Ozma's. Unless Mitsuo Fukuda and Chiaki Morosawa hijack the studio, he's dead.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:26 pm

Nagato21 wrote:Well there was a lot of foreshadowing but seriously its like they killed him to make the show a tad more dramatic, as if having a small kid singing brainwashing songs to the death is not enough.
Well his death is most likely suppose to serve as personal motivation for Hayate and Mirage and probably Kaname depending on how much more they plan on developing her.

The foreshadowing was there its just that they probably could have done a little more with Messer before they killed him off. Explore the love triangle between him, Kaname, and Arad, maybe a final lesson for Hayate and Mirage. Something to make Messer's a bit more memorable and endearing. All of this could have fit into the second half of the episode (and first half of the next), and since the last two episodes had dogfights it wouldn't be a bad idea to give the action a break for one epsiode. But i guess the plot must move forward.
Compass wrote:Maybe they'll pull an Ozma on us. THAT was a troll.
O man, I don't think I've ever been so mad and glad at the same time. They got us good there. Though I highly doubt that's gonna happen here.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:30 am

zetatype wrote:The foreshadowing was there its just that they probably could have done a little more with Messer before they killed him off. Explore the love triangle between him, Kaname, and Arad, maybe a final lesson for Hayate and Mirage.
That seems a bit too cliche. A lead character has died already so let's break a few more classic tropes.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:44 am

Areku wrote:
Compass wrote:Maybe they'll pull an Ozma on us. THAT was a troll.
The odds of survival are closer to Michel's than Ozma's. Unless Mitsuo Fukuda and Chiaki Morosawa hijack the studio, he's dead.
*enters thread tepidly*

Um... Chiaki Morosawa died only three months ago from heart disease. I know that this knowledge hasn't permeated too thoroughly and that her creative efforts are controversial, but... :/

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:34 am

Dustman wrote:Chiaki Morosawa died only three months ago from heart disease.
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I didn't know that, but I think that (somewhat perversely) reinforces my Messer-deadness metaphor. You don't end an episode by turning a cockpit into the inside of a ketchup bottle and having two characters "SNAKE!", six characters silently "No..." and one character fall to her knees in anguish unless you're A) actually killing the character or B) have no shame as a storyteller.

And, uh, at the risk of sounding rude, I'm not going to speak more kindly of someone just because they passed away an arbitrary amount of time ago, though I do apologize if anyone is genuinely offended.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:12 am

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to shame anybody into pretending that they liked her all along. But as a bleeding heart, I suppose that I'd feel better if people at least knew what happened so that they can decide whether a joke at her expense would be appropriate to their sensibilities. I can't stop that from happening but I can at least make sure that nobody will regret saying it.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:55 am

Dustman wrote:I'm not trying to shame anybody into pretending that they liked her all along. I'd feel better if people at least knew what happened. I can at least make sure that nobody will regret saying it.
Oh, that's fine, I appreciate the gesture and I don't mean to imply shaming on your part. It just so happens that I view the prospect of Messer not being dead as being on the same level of erroneous storytelling as Morosawa at her worst, specifically not killing Kira (a full episode of characters manipulation-grieving a not-death) and Mu (meekly undoing one of the better deaths I can readily recall in anime) when either's survival required a major asspull.

But please, do let me know if my jokes and criticisms go too far. The gallows humor is strong with me, but I'm not trying to rant or upset anyone.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:41 am

azrael wrote:
zetatype wrote:The foreshadowing was there its just that they probably could have done a little more with Messer before they killed him off. Explore the love triangle between him, Kaname, and Arad, maybe a final lesson for Hayate and Mirage.
That seems a bit too cliche. A lead character has died already so let's break a few more classic tropes.
I'd argue that having the mentor pilot die is just as cliche. My ideas are hardly orignial, but a more developed character is better regardless.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:52 am

For a given value of "mentor", anyway.
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Messer did a fair bit of rather brutal, if mostly justified criticizing, but IMO very little in the way of actual mentoring before his untimely demise.
That being said, I am quite curious to see where the story goes from here, especially as regards the character(s) most affected by what happened.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:26 pm

Remember, we had ketchup in IBO. Like, MAD KETCHUP. And what's that? They just had an obliterated sandwich? OK! No problem! They ain't dead till they're buried dead.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:14 pm

Unless it's Tomino, don't assume the worst until otherwise forced. Although I do seriously doubt Messer living at this point. There was far, far too much blood there, way more than IBO, where all we saw was some gratuitous splatter. This was an explosive blast of blood, something far more serious than a mere flesh wound...

Of course, we have yet to the see the plane crash, no?
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:47 pm

Amion wrote:Unless it's Tomino, don't assume the worst until otherwise forced. Although I do seriously doubt Messer living at this point. There was far, far too much blood there, way more than IBO, where all we saw was some gratuitous splatter. This was an explosive blast of blood, something far more serious than a mere flesh wound...

Of course, we have yet to the see the plane crash, no?
I'm sure the first thing we'll see next episode is the mangled wreck of Messer's Siegfried in the hangar with Kaname crying her eyes out. Macross has a pretty solid record of showing characters either die unambiguously or get mortally wounded and then be shown to be dead.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:00 pm

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Compass wrote:Remember, we had ketchup in IBO. Like, MAD KETCHUP. And what's that? They just had an obliterated sandwich? OK! No problem! They ain't dead till they're buried dead.
Are you talking about Azee and Lafter? If so, you're talking about bloody uniforms and one excruciatingly-painful-but-relatively-minor spout. Those are very different from a veritable geyser that produces a nearly-uniform coating across the entire canopy in an instant. That requires massive physical damage; atomization of half the body comes to mind. Also, we know from the choreography that the two planes were pointed almost directly at each other; based on where the canopy was breached, Messer was clearly struck squarely in the head/neck/chest area. That kind of blood spray from that location goes a few steps beyond instantly fatal.

I appreciate your caution and suspicion, but the situation (and the directing choices immediately following it) leaves no room for either. I mean, c'mon, it looks like Messer was shot by a Dominator set to Lethal Eliminator. Now, sure, it's entirely possible Messer isn't actually dead, but it would be an atrocious display of shameless and shallow storytelling. Maybe movie-Guld and series-Michel will swoop in to save the day?
Amion wrote:Of course, we have yet to the see the plane crash, no?
I have considered that, especially since previous episodes have shown that autopilot can be remotely engaged. But unless VF-31 autopilot can rewind time, that won't help Messer one bit.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:10 pm

Areku wrote:or B) have no shame as a storyteller.
... Have you not seen a Kawamori show before? :lol:
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:37 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:... Have you not seen a Kawamori show before? :lol:
Well, 7 can't be that bad... can it?

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