The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue May 31, 2016 5:50 pm

Henyo wrote:i somehow missed that bit. or was it mentioned somewhere else instead of in the Zero OVA?
also, i just watched M0 for the heck of it back then. :twisted:
I'm pretty sure it was explained in the Zero OVA that the Bird Human's purpose was to destroy humanity should it turn out poorly.

Frontier later elaborated that the Bird Human was made in the image of the Vajra, whom the Protoculture viewed as gods.

Anyways, this was a good episode, for Messer in particular. It had always been pretty obvious he liked Kaname but this confirms it. Is that Arad giving his blessing in the preview?

And finally Freyja is becoming a little aware of her feelings.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:04 am

Wow, Roid has quite the collection of glasses @ 12:50.

Bogue continues to drink the Kool-Aid. At this point, I'm half expecting him to "Oh Yeah!" his way right on through the (fourth?) wall before series' end.
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I've got to say, this was the episode that finally cemented my dislike for Messer. I was okay with his standoff-ish methods of instruction, motivation and training, though locking on to Hayate in Ep. 5 was definitely taking it too far. But here? Hours after demonstrating his ability to simultaneously shoot down three of his four wingmen, he says that the solution to the possibility of his succumbing to Var Syndrome is to shoot him down?

Unless he's omitting the fact that someone has a kill-switch for either he or his VF, that sounds like a hopelessly self-indulgent plan that will quickly leave Arad in a 1 vs 7 against the Aerial Knights + Messer. On the other hand, if there is such a kill-switch, leaving Hayate and Mirage in the dark is guaranteed to heighten their fear, paranoia and confusion at a critical point in battle. I also find it hard to believe he's been given orders that would lead to him proposing that "solution" should anyone find out about his circumstances; Kaname and Johnson's conversation makes it sound like his continued status as a pilot is his own decision, so it's unlikely he's been ordered silent when that silence is impractical.

Finally, his description clearly suggests to Hayate and Mirage that they're the low men with the secret of his "relapse", falsely placing them in the morally precarious position of deciding whether or not to "betray" Messer. That's just shallow, selfish and detrimental to Delta Squadron's cohesion.

I was okay with his earlier tough love, but in the absence of future elaboration/clarification, these two scenes have completely destroyed any respect I had for Messer as anything more than a VF's wetware.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:26 am

Doing a quick count, out of just the ones that are visible there are eighteen pairs on that display that I can see. So counting the pair he has on and the fancier pair he wears when he's all dressed up and fabulous, the dude has a minimum of twenty separate pairs of glasses...
Why one dude needs that many pairs of glasses is completely beyond me - I only own one pair, and that's sufficient IMO.

As for the rest of the episode...
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ship-to-combat intensifies! Also, this is now my computer desktop wallpaper. Should make where I stand on the question of the Triangle fairly clear, I think. Don't get me wrong, Freyja's adorable, but I personally see her more as a little sister than a love interest.
Come to think of it, that was how I felt about Ranka in Frontier, too :P

The dogfights were pretty awesome, but I personally feel that Battroid/Gerwalk modes are under-utilized, at least in this episode. Bogue still annoys the heck out of me, so once I got done watching the episode last night I went back and re-watched the scene in Ep8 when he got that truly EPIC beatdown.

As for Messer, I still don't like him all that much, and do agree with the point being made that considering he can solo three of his teammates in seconds the idea that he would be counting on them to shoot him down should he lose it is ridiculous self-delusion. On the other hand, I did like that he at least got some minor development beyond the fact that he's just an a-hole.
And since from the beginning Kaname was my favorite of Walküre's members so more development on her can only be a good thing in my book.
The more this show goes on, the more I'm in love with the -31. As much as I loved the -25's retro sleekness and the -29's sheer badassery, I think of the main Valks in the last couple of series, the -31 is well on its way to being my personal favorite.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:17 pm

You mean the 31C/J? Because the 31A looks like a Nightmare had way too much influence on the 29.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:09 pm

I refer primarily to the five modified VF-31s used by Delta Squadron - so the -31C, E, F, J and S. Though frankly, I do kind of like the -31A as well, just not quite as much.

And honestly, I look at the -31A and I don't see any resemblance to the Nightmare. The only real difference between it and the others is the shape of the outer wing segment...which if anything IMO looks more reminescent of the VF-27 than anything else...
The only other thing I can think of that it sort of resembles might be the YF-21/VF-22, though even I admit that's a stretch.
Still, kinda makes it even more amusing that the Delta Squadron VF-31s have forward-swept wings, which offhand I can only remember seeing on the -29 and the -19.

But that's just my opinion.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:58 pm

Dark Duel wrote:The more this show goes on, the more I'm in love with the -31. As much as I loved the -25's retro sleekness and the -29's sheer badassery, I think of the main Valks in the last couple of series, the -31 is well on its way to being my personal favorite.
The VF-25 was previously my favorite, as it looked like a more-modern combination between an F-14D Tomcat and an F-18C Hornet, with the distinctly-Russian nose design for added sexiness. However, the VF-31A is a masterful fusion of the F-22 Raptor and Su-37, while the variants somehow manage to add the Su-47's forward swept wings into the mix while keeping the design elegant. I zoinking love the VF-31 and (especially) its variants!

The VF-29, on the other hand... Well, I wanted to like it, but it looks like Kawamori came up with the VF-31 and started to incorporate it into the Frontier films, then realized the design would easily carry its own series, so he decided to give it some of the VF-25's finer details and then started slapping on extra pieces and equipment to give it that over-designed "prototype" look so as to not "waste" the design in a few minutes of one movie. At least, that's what I see when I look at the VF-29 now; even back when it was new, it felt like an excellent design hidden beneath extraneous add-ons.

Edit: Any continuation of this conversation should probably be taken to the Mecha section.

Edit #2:
Dark Duel wrote:I went back and re-watched the scene in Ep8 when he got that truly EPIC beatdown.
You know, it just occurred to me that the lame "Dogfight Mode" in Ace Combat: Assault Horizon, with a few significant changes, could have been pretty cool if that game had Variable Fighters. Kawamori's involved with that franchise, too. Make it happen, Bamco!
Last edited by Areku on Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:50 am

Regarding Messer's request, while affected by Var his skills and judgment are hindered, so it is possible his squadmates could take him down under those circumstances.

There's no denying his actions are selfish, but that just adds a very human element to his character and makes him more than just Mr McAwesome Pilot. Even moreso because he's doing it to impress the girl he likes.

Regarding Valkyries, I've said this before but I find all of them hard to distinguish between. Give me a line up of Mobile Suits and I could name every one but give me a line up of Valkyries and I'll maybe identify the YF-19. I tend to prefer the designs of Destroids anyways.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:23 am

Well damn...
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I was really rooting for Kaname/Messer too.

Of course this presents a much bigger narrative problem: no one but Messer was able to stand up to Keith, so with Messer gone there is no way Delta platoon can win any battle.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:26 pm

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Ya happy now Messer-haters?
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:44 pm

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T̮̤́h҉̦͙e͉̹̩̱͚̰ ͖̲̬̳͙̦͞s̴͔̮͖͍̥͇̹à̜̭͚̲̼c̜̤̖̣̕r̻̟̫̫͘i̳̮͚͓̙ͅf̢̮̻̞̳̩i̘̤̗ç̟e̥͕̹͡ ͇̫̤ͅi̯̫͔̲̟͝s̨̼̜̙͍͙͙͕ ͙̪c̢̙͎̦͓̻̩o̙̦̲̰̲mp҉͇͖̠̪̩ͅl̶͇͙͕̘é̦̭̤̱̗̣t͕̼̬͔̩̟͎e͉͓͍̼̜͟. ͈͔̼͇ͅB̪̙͚̳r̛̥͕̪įn͈̥͖̖̰̩g̹ ̜͕̮i̖̗̳͢n̯̗̱̯̜̻̮ ̨͕̹̣͈̗S̻͕̼͎̲̹ͅų͚͎͖̭p̬̩̰̝̗̠͇ę̲̩͔̪̰̝ͅṛ ̺P͎i̬͖̳̗̟̬l̙͚o̱̤͈̜̤̟͕t̮̪͚̦͉ ͏̟̰̲͈̙H̯̗̩̭̭͔̟a̗̺̥̣̻̪y̙͉̟a̷̝̼t̷̙͈̹̘̦e͔͚͎̝̬̺͝.̻̫̞
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jun 05, 2016 6:16 pm

Compass wrote:
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T̮̤́h҉̦͙e͉̹̩̱͚̰ ͖̲̬̳͙̦͞s̴͔̮͖͍̥͇̹à̜̭͚̲̼c̜̤̖̣̕r̻̟̫̫͘i̳̮͚͓̙ͅf̢̮̻̞̳̩i̘̤̗ç̟e̥͕̹͡ ͇̫̤ͅi̯̫͔̲̟͝s̨̼̜̙͍͙͙͕ ͙̪c̢̙͎̦͓̻̩o̙̦̲̰̲mp҉͇͖̠̪̩ͅl̶͇͙͕̘é̦̭̤̱̗̣t͕̼̬͔̩̟͎e͉͓͍̼̜͟. ͈͔̼͇ͅB̪̙͚̳r̛̥͕̪įn͈̥͖̖̰̩g̹ ̜͕̮i̖̗̳͢n̯̗̱̯̜̻̮ ̨͕̹̣͈̗S̻͕̼͎̲̹ͅų͚͎͖̭p̬̩̰̝̗̠͇ę̲̩͔̪̰̝ͅṛ ̺P͎i̬͖̳̗̟̬l̙͚o̱̤͈̜̤̟͕t̮̪͚̦͉ ͏̟̰̲͈̙H̯̗̩̭̭͔̟a̗̺̥̣̻̪y̙͉̟a̷̝̼t̷̙͈̹̘̦e͔͚͎̝̬̺͝.̻̫̞
The hell is up with the text in your post?
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:53 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:
Compass wrote:
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T̮̤́h҉̦͙e͉̹̩̱͚̰ ͖̲̬̳͙̦͞s̴͔̮͖͍̥͇̹à̜̭͚̲̼c̜̤̖̣̕r̻̟̫̫͘i̳̮͚͓̙ͅf̢̮̻̞̳̩i̘̤̗ç̟e̥͕̹͡ ͇̫̤ͅi̯̫͔̲̟͝s̨̼̜̙͍͙͙͕ ͙̪c̢̙͎̦͓̻̩o̙̦̲̰̲mp҉͇͖̠̪̩ͅl̶͇͙͕̘é̦̭̤̱̗̣t͕̼̬͔̩̟͎e͉͓͍̼̜͟. ͈͔̼͇ͅB̪̙͚̳r̛̥͕̪įn͈̥͖̖̰̩g̹ ̜͕̮i̖̗̳͢n̯̗̱̯̜̻̮ ̨͕̹̣͈̗S̻͕̼͎̲̹ͅų͚͎͖̭p̬̩̰̝̗̠͇ę̲̩͔̪̰̝ͅṛ ̺P͎i̬͖̳̗̟̬l̙͚o̱̤͈̜̤̟͕t̮̪͚̦͉ ͏̟̰̲͈̙H̯̗̩̭̭͔̟a̗̺̥̣̻̪y̙͉̟a̷̝̼t̷̙͈̹̘̦e͔͚͎̝̬̺͝.̻̫̞
The hell is up with the text in your post?
It's called Zalgo. It's supposed to represent a demonic language and just uses fancy character marks in ASCII.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Wingnut » Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:58 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Well damn...
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I was really rooting for Kaname/Messer too.

Of course this presents a much bigger narrative problem: no one but Messer was able to stand up to Keith, so with Messer gone there is no way Delta platoon can win any battle.
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Personally, I think the White Knight is really the only one of the bunch that seems unsurmountable at the moment. The rest seem like they could be overcome with Delta platoon's current skill level and how their skills could be reasonably expected to grow. However Keith throws the wrench into the mix and without Messer to hold him off, things just got a whole lot more hairy. Obviously someone is gonna have to step up and deal with it, but the question is who, how, and will it feel like an asspull when they do?

Even more worrying is the Walkurie is down 3/5 members ATM. Mikumo and Freija went through ruins dimension shock, and Kaname went through regular shock at Messer getting shot down.

tl;dr: ZOINKS, meet fan. Fan, meet ZOINKS. You two are spending some quality time together this episode.

The festival antics however were amusing, and you indeed DO NOT announce that you and someone else are wearing matching skivvies.
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Ya happy now Messer-haters?
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Not really. He was a dick to Hayate and Mirage, but his intentions were ultimately in the right place of wanting them to be better. And of course he was indispensable as a pilot to the team.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Ascension » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:24 pm

That... that...
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Past a certain point I could see it coming, but they really did swerve me with the slice-of-life festival opening (devoid of any pineapple-flavored products). I'd just about convinced myself this was a breather episode (forgetting the teaser from last week), then figured it was a breather episode with a bit of combat as a device to bring Messer back onto the team, and then...

...but I suppose such is the cost of getting the full version of Axia.
On a much more prosaic note, is it just me or are Messer and Keith (and sometimes Bouge, when he's targeting Walkure) the only ones who remember they have missiles? This series hasn't only been light on battroid usage, it's also leaned heavily on guns as the primary weapons in dogfights. That makes sense when it's the Delta Squadron trying to damage-but-not-destroy Var-infected allies, but makes far less sense when it's Delta vs. the Aerial Knights.

I guess this is the downside of a Macross series in which the primary enemies are all named pilots so we can't routinely blow up mooks.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Compass » Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:35 pm

Well, to be honest, Micro missiles weren't known for their killing ability in previous series either against anything other than grunts.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Ascension » Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:57 am

Compass wrote:Well, to be honest, Micro missiles weren't known for their killing ability in previous series either against anything other than grunts.
Well no, but they at least got used more often. Or at least I feel like they did. I pretty recently rewatched Frontier and Plus and watched SDFM for the first time, so I think I'm not talking out of my ass here. But it could be perceptual.

Meanwhile, forgot to comment earlier, Makina/Reina is looking less like subtext and more like text with each scene they're in focus. Not that I'm complaining. :)
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Reina's comment about enjoying the present to the fullest, with that body language and the context that the conversation was previously focused on Messer's crush on Kaname, was pretty much a blinking neon YEP WE'RE A COUPLE sign. :P
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Vent Noir » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:13 pm

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And there wasn't even any pineapple involved.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Areku » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:01 pm

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Destiny_Gundam wrote:Of course this presents a much bigger narrative problem: no one but Messer was able to stand up to Keith, so with Messer gone there is no way Delta platoon can win any battle.
Wingnut wrote:Obviously someone is gonna have to step up and deal with it, but the question is who, how, and will it feel like an asspull when they do?
Ascension wrote:This series hasn't only been light on battroid usage, it's also leaned heavily on guns as the primary weapons in dogfights.
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Now that Messer is out of the way (I didn't necessarily want him dead, but it'd reached the point where he was harming Delta Squadron more than helping, even with the moments of heroism), I think it's entirely plausible and non-asspull for Mirage and Hayate to take down Keith.

As has already been observed by numerous people, Delta Squadron and the White Knights tend to engage with direct, line-of-sight weaponry and typically avoid transforming out of Fighter mode. This is similar to WW2 fighter combat, where coordination could consistently allow less-skilled/less-maneuverable pilots/fighters to defeat superior opponents. An example of this coordination is the Thach Weave, which is put into effect with relative ease with just two pilots; a pattern of similar shape has been displayed in numerous high-speed engagements with Keith already (albeit between Keith and Messer, rather than two pilots acting together). Basically, if one pilot can fly such that Keith will have to fly in a predictable manner to stay on their tail, staying on their tail makes it much harder for Keith to avoid being shot down by a second pilot.

Personally, I feel that Hayate and Mirage are the ones most likely to coordinate closely enough to defeat Keith. They've already been moving in that direction long before Ep.10, they have the power of the love triangle on their side, and Messer's death will probably motivate them to be less passive from now on (who knows, maybe Mirage will now be able to channel her natural aggression into something closer to her grandparents' skill). Coupled with Hayate's inevitable "riding the wind" and his demonstrated ability to remember that Valkyries can transform, I think they're up to the task without total plot hax.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:01 pm

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Poor Messer. I was starting to actually care about him. At least this allows for Kaname to grow.

The real shock to me is that Roid is in fact concerned over His Highness' health. I wasn't expecting it. Clearly, he's not the devious mastermind he appears to be. That, or he's just being pragmantic and fears losing his precious Wind Singer.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:27 pm

Dark Duel wrote: And honestly, I look at the -31A and I don't see any resemblance to the Nightmare.
That's because the Siegfried's are all based on the YF-30 Chronos. :wink:

But yeah... just... damn...
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It's been pretty clear that Keith has had a murder boner for a few episodes now and here a named character finally goes down. Was not expecting that at ALL. I'm sure Hayate and Mirage will have to step up and take Keith down.
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