The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:31 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:06 am
Has there been any Macross OST album being released on cassettes? I have just read about the way Japanese anime music came to the States, and it seemed like except a few cassette releases, most albums were released on either vinyls or CDs.
I think they kinda went right from vinyl to compact disc thanks to Sony being a strong advocate of the new format.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:08 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:31 pm
I think they kinda went right from vinyl to compact disc thanks to Sony being a strong advocate of the new format.
Sometimes Sony's enthusiasm for new media format came bite them in the ass. Rememver the NT cassettes?

Anyway, how much of the galaxy has humanity in Macross managed to cover? And wasn't the area around the center was forbidden after Megaroad disappeared?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:57 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:08 am
Anyway, how much of the galaxy has humanity in Macross managed to cover?
Humanity has traveled great distances across the galaxy... but they've explored relatively little of the galaxy, as the setting lacks the kind of superpowered sensors with interstellar range that are common in western sci-fi like Star Trek and because travel by space fold is essentially a form of teleportation a folding ship can't observe anything within the space it's circumventing.

Emigrant fleets have limited resources, so they send scouting parties to nearby star systems at each of their "stops" between fold jumps to explore for habitable worlds, useful resources, and that sort of thing. Humans have charted hundreds if not thousands of star systems and colonized dozens of planets, but that's in a galaxy with somewhere on the order of 400 billion stars. The only area that's really been thoroughly explored is the region of space within 100 light years of Earth, which was heavily traveled by the short-distance emigrant fleets.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:08 am
And wasn't the area around the center was forbidden after Megaroad disappeared?
Nope.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 pm

Had Kawamori planned from the start for the Sharon Apple incident to be the explaination for why automated weapons hadn't replaced humans and Zentrandi, or was NUNS's phobia toward A.I. only appeared in later installment? I mean, the idea of artificial intelligence going rouge was old at that point, and the US had already started using the Predators, right?

(I couldn't remember which air base did Kawamori visited for material for Plus?)

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:26 am

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 pm
Had Kawamori planned from the start for the Sharon Apple incident to be the explaination for why automated weapons hadn't replaced humans and Zentrandi, or was NUNS's phobia toward A.I. only appeared in later installment?
Kind of? Macross 7 and Macross Plus were in concurrent development, so it was always a bit of a foregone conclusion that autonomous unmanned fighters weren't going to displace VFs as the main fighter of the NUNS since in 2045 they were still obviously using the VF-11, VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22.

That said, the continuing use of manned VFs wasn't explicitly acknowledged as being due to autonomous AI suffering an enormous loss of public trust after the Sharon Apple incident until Macross Frontier-era publications. It was something that was included in the explanation of how the VF-171 came to be the New UN Forces' main VF and not a VF-19 variant... though it was mentioned that some emigrant fleets use all-Ghost air forces anyways, just not with a fully autonomous AI. It was later finessed even further by revealing the Sharon Apple incident had prompted the New UN Government to briefly ban Sharon's music and ban the creation of all intelligent virtuoids.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 pm
I mean, the idea of artificial intelligence going rouge was old at that point, and the US had already started using the Predators, right?
The MQ-1 Predator did not officially enter service until a month after the Macross Plus OVA ended.

The idea of rogue artificial intelligences turning on their creators was REALLY old by then, though... Isaac Asimov considered it a played out trope when he wrote the short story Runaround in 1941. It was one of the main reasons he invented the Three Laws of Robotics in his stories.

Kawamori's take with Sharon Apple was, however, a bit unusual given that Sharon Apple's insanity came from her having unstable hardware AND having inherited all of Myung's emotions, repressed feelings, and neuroses as the result of her program having been built in large part from a computer model of Myung's brain and their sampling Myung's emotions to help populate that model with genuine emotions.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:31 pm
(I couldn't remember which air base did Kawamori visited for material for Plus?)
I think that was Edwards AFB.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:26 am
Kind of? Macross 7 and Macross Plus were in concurrent development, so it was always a bit of a foregone conclusion that autonomous unmanned fighters weren't going to displace VFs as the main fighter of the NUNS since in 2045 they were still obviously using the VF-11, VF-17, VF-19, and VF-22.

That said, the continuing use of manned VFs wasn't explicitly acknowledged as being due to autonomous AI suffering an enormous loss of public trust after the Sharon Apple incident until Macross Frontier-era publications. It was something that was included in the explanation of how the VF-171 came to be the New UN Forces' main VF and not a VF-19 variant... though it was mentioned that some emigrant fleets use all-Ghost air forces anyways, just not with a fully autonomous AI. It was later finessed even further by revealing the Sharon Apple incident had prompted the New UN Government to briefly ban Sharon's music and ban the creation of all intelligent virtuoids.
I really hope that they would go back on the timeline and make a show which the VF-11 could take the center stage. It is a good VF in book looks and specs. It's just that it was way over-classed by the YF-19 and YF-21.

Also, I wonder if we humans can really create a hyperintelligent A.I. that is completely inhuman in thought and sensory capability? Or at that level, we couldn't even recognized it as intelligent? I am writing a story in which an A.I. tried to create another A.I like that, but since it was patterned after humans, the only way the first A.I. could do it is through repeatedly copying, testing, editing, and self-reproducing its copies.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:51 am

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 am
I really hope that they would go back on the timeline and make a show which the VF-11 could take the center stage. It is a good VF in book looks and specs. It's just that it was way over-classed by the YF-19 and YF-21.
Yeah, it's a bit unfair that we've never really gotten to see the 3rd Generation main VF or 4th Generation main VF have their time to shine.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 am
Also, I wonder if we humans can really create a hyperintelligent A.I. that is completely inhuman in thought and sensory capability?
Not at our current level of technology... the most powerful supercomputers we currently have can only run at about 1/3 of the raw computational ability of the human brain (~38 PFLOP vs ~14 PFLOP), consume about 1 million times as much energy to operate (~15W vs ~15MW), and aren't capable of "fuzzy logic" like our brains are. So the human mind is still blowing supercomputers into the weeds in terms of actual processing power, though we're not capable of using it all because it's running so many different parallel tasks to keep us alive and aware of our surroundings.

An AI that's capable of even human-level intellect is still very much science fiction, never mind a super-intelligent AI that exceeds human abilities.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 am
Or at that level, we couldn't even recognized it as intelligent? I am writing a story in which an A.I. tried to create another A.I like that, but since it was patterned after humans, the only way the first A.I. could do it is through repeatedly copying, testing, editing, and self-reproducing its copies.
Sounds like The Talos Principle...
Last edited by Seto Kaiba on Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Chris » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:50 am

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:29 am
I really hope that they would go back on the timeline and make a show which the VF-11 could take the center stage. It is a good VF in book looks and specs. It's just that it was way over-classed by the YF-19 and YF-21.
I would love to see something that gives some love to the Thunderbolt, Lightning III and even the Cutlass, but it doesn't seem likely, unfortunately. Aside from doing a prequel with Zero, Kawamori is always about pushing the timeline forward and doesn't seem to have any interest in doing fill-in/midquel stories like 0083/Unicorn/etc. I only ever see that happening when he steps down from supervising the Macross franchise.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:27 pm

I would love to see more of the Lightning III, its easily one of my all time favorite Macross designs.

Sadly its pretty under-represented, even in some video games.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:25 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:51 am
MythSearcher wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:31 am
Also, I wonder if we humans can really create a hyperintelligent A.I. that is completely inhuman in thought and sensory capability?
Not at our current level of technology... the most powerful supercomputers we currently have can only run at about 1/3 of the raw computational ability of the human brain (~38 PFLOP vs ~14 PFLOP), consume about 1 million times as much energy to operate (~15W vs ~15MW), and aren't capable of "fuzzy logic" like our brains are. So the human mind is still blowing supercomputers into the weeds in terms of actual processing power, though we're not capable of using it all because it's running so many different parallel tasks to keep us alive and aware of our surroundings.

An AI that's capable of even human-level intellect is still very much science fiction, never mind a super-intelligent AI that exceeds human abilities.


MythSearcher wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:31 am
Or at that level, we couldn't even recognized it as intelligent? I am writing a story in which an A.I. tried to create another A.I like that, but since it was patterned after humans, the only way the first A.I. could do it is through repeatedly copying, testing, editing, and self-reproducing its copies.
Sounds like The Talos Principle...
I don't recall posting in this post, haven't even watched Delta.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am

Sorry, looks like I had your quote block in the clipboard from another thread and forgot to replace it with False Prophet's when I started replying to his post. My bad.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:38 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:01 am
Sorry, looks like I had your quote block in the clipboard from another thread and forgot to replace it with False Prophet's when I started replying to his post. My bad.
Well, I am kinda interested in participating in the topic of AIs, but the recent development changed my views quite a lot.
My usual, old reply of that will be "If human continue to use logic as a means to create AIs, they won't be able to surpass logic."
Recent years they seems to be creating AIs to learn on their own instead of using logic as the only means.(I mean, they are still using logic, just not directly telling what the AI should do) so I am not sure any more.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:14 am

Kawamori has got an interview on the spring 2020 edition of Great Mechanics. Could anyone here please translate what he said on this interview? Here are the two pages:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZZct7 ... IZJb5cisxG

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cmUX2 ... EekC0Zx7Dx

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am

What are the obligations that the immigration fleets have to the Earth government in term of tax, resources, etc. We know that N.U.N.S. can take command of their fleet garrison forces if it wants to.

Conversely, how can an immigration fleets request Earth to allocate more resources to them? We know that private enterprises could take control of immigration fleets like with Macross Galaxy? What is stopping them for orchestrating false-flag operations (like Macross Galaxy), demanding aids, and them embezzling these aids for their private uses?

Also, does N.U.N.S. hire PMC, or just the local governments? Chaos is a navigation & logistics company, so if real life is anything goes by, it could be hired to transport something, right? On the other hands, does N.U.N.S. provide escort service for private enterprises?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:34 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
What are the obligations that the immigration fleets have to the Earth government in term of tax, resources, etc. [...]
AFAIK, it's never really been discussed.

The Earth Unification Government supplanted the modern United Nations, and Kawamori has drawn some parallels between the New Unification Government and European Union... suggesting the supranational government is likely funded each member nation being required to contribute a certain percentage of its GDP.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
Conversely, how can an immigration fleets request Earth to allocate more resources to them?
Earth is the seat of the supranational New Unification Government... but, in theory at least, it's an equal member of the New Unification Government with no more authority to dictate policy or allocate resources than any other member nation. In practice, Earth is more like the First Among Equals because it hosts the New UN Government assembly and is the oldest and most established member historically, economically, and militarily.

New UN Government member nations can try to allocate more resources to their local governments the same way that your elected officials do... lobbying each other, trading favors, negotiating agreements, etc.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
We know that private enterprises could take control of immigration fleets like with Macross Galaxy? What is stopping them for orchestrating false-flag operations (like Macross Galaxy), demanding aids, and them embezzling these aids for their private uses?
Macross Galaxy wasn't taken over by a private enterprise... it was founded as one.

As to what's stopping any given government from orchestrating false flag operations or misappropriating foreign aid... the same thing that's stopping any modern government. Mostly, nothing. In rare cases, the prospect of a military intervention, economic sanctions, or future difficulties negotiating trade agreements and so on.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
Also, does N.U.N.S. hire PMC, or just the local governments?
You mean the central/supranational New UN Forces?

We don't know, but probably not.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
Chaos is a navigation & logistics company, so if real life is anything goes by, it could be hired to transport something, right?
Xaos is a conglomerate with a lot of different divisions in different industries... but its main area of business was fold communications and media. SMS's parent company, Bilra Transport, was an interstellar freight company.

But yes, private enterprises like Bilra Transport or its rival Tachyon Express are major interstellar freight firm in the business of hauling cargo from one emigrant fleet or planet to another. They make an enormous amount of money doing it.


False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:05 am
On the other hands, does N.U.N.S. provide escort service for private enterprises?
Nope... outside of the airspace of a New UN Gov't member nation, ships owned by private enterprises are mostly on their own in terms of defense and security.

That's the very reason that Bilra Transport founded its subsidiary, Strategic Military Services... to provide security for its interstellar freight shipments. It was only much later, when Bilra Transport and SMS had become a lot more established, that they started providing private military contract services to governments.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am

Do you guys think that Walkure will have to be shoehorned in the next Macross? They have just released a new single, and I have a feeling that they will stick around for another one or two years after the second Delta movie came out, which might mean that it is about time for a new series anyway.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:03 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:34 am
Do you guys think that Walkure will have to be shoehorned in the next Macross? They have just released a new single, and I have a feeling that they will stick around for another one or two years after the second Delta movie came out, which might mean that it is about time for a new series anyway.
Nah, Walkure's basically staying together for the sake of Macross Delta at this point... once it's done, they'll do what they've been trying to do since the series ended and go pursue their solo careers.
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