The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat May 11, 2019 2:34 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 12:43 pm
Say, hypothetically, if they try to make a modern Destroid in a post-Delta setting (a Cheyenne III, maybe?), what new features would it needs to possess? Can it potentially take away some of the technologies and duties from the Zentrandi suits?
For most practical intents and purposes, the Destroid concept's viability ended when the First Space War revealed that it had been conceived based on a complete misunderstanding of what kind of war the Zentradi fight. The Cheyenne II has a VERY narrow niche that it's hanging onto, but I don't imagine that'll last too much longer either.

Essentially, to make a viable Destroid for the current generation you'd need to make an OTM-based Mobile Suit. It needs the kind of high mobility the Zentradi battle pods and battle suits have to keep up and not get its sh*t wrecked. It needs high armament versatility to flexibly deal with aircraft and landbound threats like battroids with Armored Packs. It has to have better defenses than the typical Battroid in order to withstand having to stand still and barrage targets instead.

Basically it ends up looking more like a Mobile Armor, along the lines of the anti-government one-off units Gjagravan Va and Annabella Lasiodora from Macross VF-X2.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Sat May 11, 2019 3:09 pm

So pretty much something like the Konig Monster then? A transforming bomber that resembled and had elements of the Destroid Monster?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun May 12, 2019 11:50 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 3:09 pm
So pretty much something like the Konig Monster then? A transforming bomber that resembled and had elements of the Destroid Monster?
Nah, the VB-6 König Monster isn't a Destroid... it's a full-on variable bomber that had a LOT of mechanical problems as the inevitable result of what its designers were trying to do. So much so that it took an infusion of more advanced and capable technology from two fighter generations further on to make it a properly viable frontline unit.

I'm thinking of something like the mobile weapons that we saw in Macross VF-X2: the land warfare unit Gjagravan Va, and the space warfare unit Annabella Lasiodora.

The Black Rainbow anti-government group's mobile weapon Gjagravan Va was encountered by the NUNS VF-X Special Forces 727th Independent Squadron "Ravens" on 14 November 2050 during the liberation of Hyde City (the game level "Singin in the Rain". It's technically a Destroid, but design-wise it was such a paradigm shift from conventional wisdom that it threw the New UN Spacy Special Forces for a loop. It's a quadrupedal "walking" tank inspired by water striders... able to walk or hover over the ground like its insectoid inspiration does on the surface of the water. As such, it's highly agile and with its heavy armament more than capable of fighting on an equal footing with even 4th Generation VFs. It was armed with a large converging beam cannon turret as its main weapon, supported by a large battery of the latest high-maneuverability missiles, a 4-barrel rotary plasma cannon, a laser machinegun turret, electronic countermeasure systems, and conventional countermeasure dispensers. It was nasty enough to be a mid-game boss mecha that even the VF-17S Nightmare was hard-pressed to defeat.

Black Rainbow's Annabella Lasiodora mobile weapon that attacked Ceres Base in the Sol system in 2051 (the game's levels "On the Town" or "Easter Parade" depending on your path) was more like a straight-up Gundam-style Mobile Armor. It was a heavily armored arrowhead-shaped body with several extremely powerful thermonuclear reaction engines and thrust diverter vernier collars to boost its agility, armed with a large beam cannon turret, a frankly unreasonable number of missiles, and six arms that it could use to attack large targets like ships or space stations. That thing outright defeated several of the VF-X Ravens in the latest 4th Gen VFs.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am

Somehow I come across this video on a Robotech panel at a con: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbVomHHvrow

This is just sad. I remember having seen a video walkthrough of SDC last year. The difference is like the earth and the sky.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat May 18, 2019 1:03 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am
Somehow I come across this video on a Robotech panel at a con: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbVomHHvrow
Ugh, RobotechX... that lot are basically the most die-hard of die-hard Robotech fans. The sort of nutjobs who will eat up every blatant lie Harmony Gold tells like it's an irrefutable truth. One of the heads of that site reportedly tried to land a job with Harmony Gold by emptying his bank accounts to fly members of the Robotech cast to Chile for a convention, a move that supposedly led to his wife divorcing him.

False Prophet wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am
This is just sad. I remember having seen a video walkthrough of SDC last year. The difference is like the earth and the sky.
Well, yeah... Macross is vastly more popular than Robotech, in no small part because it's actually put out new material over the last three decades. The vast majority of what's left of the Robotech fandom is folks in their 40s who are desperately clinging to a dead property from when they were kids... so the convention turnouts and so on are pretty low. (Harmony Gold doesn't exactly have anything to show either, so the convention panels are usually a rather silly exercise in self-gratification for HG's PR man, Kevin McKeever.)
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by krullnar » Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 pm

On the plus side what like a year and a half till harmony golds death grip is released. Seto since your the master of all things macross any news on an upcoming series or what not.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 am

krullnar wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 pm
On the plus side what like a year and a half till harmony golds death grip is released.
665 days if we're counting... and we are.


krullnar wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 pm
Seto since your the master of all things macross any news on an upcoming series or what not.
Nothing on a new series... the new series that was hinted at by folks who'd worked on the official subs for Delta's series and movie seems to have been back-burnered in favor of another Macross Delta movie. Last I heard, that was tentatively due out this year though we surprisingly haven't heard anything about it since it was announced.

I didn't much care for Delta after the second half, so I've been focusing my energies on translation work instead.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by krullnar » Sun May 19, 2019 2:16 am

Ahh i see yeah im with you about delta was different not good different like 7 but just yeah not a fan of pop groups more the solo act. Though if the series continues to follow real life pop trends in japan then i guess its more pop groups ugh. Thanks for the update seto
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun May 19, 2019 2:30 pm

krullnar wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:16 am
Ahh i see yeah im with you about delta was different not good different like 7 but just yeah not a fan of pop groups more the solo act. Though if the series continues to follow real life pop trends in japan then i guess its more pop groups ugh. Thanks for the update seto
My biggest problem with Macross Delta wasn't that they had a pop idol group this time around, it was that the plot was so thin on the ground that there wasn't much of an actual story past about episode 10... it devolved into a series of thinly disguised excuses to have live concerts and the protagonists actions had no real impact on the course of the plot as a whole. We got 24 episodes of Roid going "just according to keikaku" and two episodes of rushed ending.

But yeah, they spent a LOT of money putting Walkure together and it seems to be the most profitable part of Delta, so until Delta finishes running its course via the next movie they're kinda all we've got.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Mon May 20, 2019 9:19 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 12:07 am

665 days if we're counting... and we are.
Any chance of Harmony Gold doing a "YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD" OR "OBJECTION!!!" on us? while there have been landmarks in the licensing field(LOGH anime and novels for one thing) i just cant remove that possibility of my mind.

on a related note, a friend of mine had a discussion about the Macross/Robotech lincensing nightmare. he said that the peeps who want harmony gold to finally go under are more interested with the toys/merch than the anime series themselves.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon May 20, 2019 12:37 pm

Henyo wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:19 am
Any chance of Harmony Gold doing a "YOU ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD" OR "OBJECTION!!!" on us?
None that stand any chance of success.

Once they officially lose the rights to the original Macross TV series, the trademarks they've been using to stop licensing of Macross in the west become unenforceable.

There are some incredibly stupid maneuvers they could try, like suing Tatsunoko, but those are not likely to do much more than backfire horribly and stick them with two parties worth of legal bills.


Henyo wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:19 am
on a related note, a friend of mine had a discussion about the Macross/Robotech lincensing nightmare. he said that the peeps who want harmony gold to finally go under are more interested with the toys/merch than the anime series themselves.
Depends which group you're talking about... there's more than one interested party who want to see Harmony Gold sink with all hands.

Fans of Macross are generally interested in seeing more of Macross in the west in ALL forms... the anime, light novels, manga, video games, toys, and what have you. Granted, now that Bandai has started putting English subs on JDM Macross Blu-ray releases, fans are slightly less concerned about not being able to get the anime through legitimate channels these days.

Your friend might be thinking of some of the other parties who want to see Harmony Gold go under, like the fans of Transformers and BattleTech/MechWarrior. Harmony Gold has threatened both franchises with an awful lot of legal action over the years, sometimes actual following through and other times not. Usually involving Harmony Gold's exclusive merchandising rights to the Macross designs and those franchises using Macross designs in violation of that... e.g. Transformers's Jetfire and BT/MW's "Unseen". Neither of those groups is likely to get any joy when Harmony Gold finally does lose the rights, since all that will change is who's suing them for infringement... it'll be Tatsunoko and Big West instead of Harmony Gold, as court filings do show that several of HG's lawsuits were them acting as a local proxy for the actual IP owners in that regard.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Tue May 21, 2019 12:09 am

Given that its been almost 2 years since the announcement of Harmony Gold having the 2021 deadline and that there has been no progress I think its safe to say that HG is losing the license cause they burned too many bridges with Tatsunoko for them to come around to agreeing on extending the original shoddy license contract...

So yeah... about 2 years left...

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by krullnar » Tue May 21, 2019 4:39 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 12:37 pm
Your friend might be thinking of some of the other parties who want to see Harmony Gold go under, like the fans of Transformers and BattleTech/MechWarrior. Harmony Gold has threatened both franchises with an awful lot of legal action over the years, sometimes actual following through and other times not. Usually involving Harmony Gold's exclusive merchandising rights to the Macross designs and those franchises using Macross designs in violation of that... e.g. Transformers's Jetfire and BT/MW's "Unseen". Neither of those groups is likely to get any joy when Harmony Gold finally does lose the rights, since all that will change is who's suing them for infringement... it'll be Tatsunoko and Big West instead of Harmony Gold, as court filings do show that several of HG's lawsuits were them acting as a local proxy for the actual IP owners in that regard.
In Battletechs case all of the unseen have undergone redesign that pulls them away from the original issue. Or at least should once hg is in the ground. HG continues to go after BT for those mechs even after they had been redesigned and had a judge arbitration that confirmed that the designs were different enough from the original to no longer be infringing on HG license.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue May 21, 2019 10:42 am

krullnar wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:39 am
In Battletechs case all of the unseen have undergone redesign that pulls them away from the original issue. [...]
They have... and with each subsequent redesign they try to sneakily take the designs back towards the designs they aren't legally allowed to use or base designs on, and get sued for it, settle out of court to avoid getting their clocks cleaned again, and change the designs back to being nigh-unrecognizable. BattleTech and MechWarrior fans are so hung up on the "Unseen" designs that FASA used in violation of copyright law that the entire franchise has this huge self-destructive impulse that sees them end up in court on allegations of violating copyright and the terms of their most recent out-of-court settlement every few years.

How that franchise ever turns a profit, I'll never know... two or three more rounds of this BS and HG will probably own the franchise outright via all the concessions BattleTech/MechWarrior's owners have made to get them to call off their legal attack dogs.

krullnar wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:39 am
Or at least should once hg is in the ground. HG continues to go after BT for those mechs even after they had been redesigned and had a judge arbitration that confirmed that the designs were different enough from the original to no longer be infringing on HG license.
Several of those instances were instigated by Tatsunoko and Big West. You see, copyright protections don't extend just to use of a specific design but also to derivatives of it. If BattleTech/MechWarrior is publishing designs that're clearly based on copyrighted property they don't own, they're gonna get sued for it regardless. Many companies will file even if there's only the suspicion that their work is being infringed upon, because the way the law is written that kind of overreaction is basically necessary to protect your rights to your work.

I don't recall any HG v. <whoever owns BattleTech this week> case ever actually ending in a ruling in arbitration or open court. They generally end in settlements when BattleTech's owners cave and beg HG for mercy, the way they did in the original HG v. FASA lawsuit that created the Unseen.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Fri May 24, 2019 8:58 pm

I have a question: When HG loses the license to Macross, will it go back to Tatsunoko or will they be in charge of Macross release outside of Japan? Could Tatsunoko prevent Macross releases in the US or will they want a cut for it?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri May 24, 2019 10:00 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:58 pm
I have a question: When HG loses the license to Macross, will it go back to Tatsunoko or will they be in charge of Macross release outside of Japan? Could Tatsunoko prevent Macross releases in the US or will they want a cut for it?
So, this is kind of a "yes and no" answer.

When Harmony Gold USA's license agreement with Tatsunoko Production Co. Ltd. is terminated, all of the rights which Harmony Gold USA held under the terms of that license agreement revert back to Tatsunoko. That means Tatsunoko's going to reclaim the international distribution and merchandising rights to the thirty-six episodes of Super Dimension Fortress Macross, the twenty-three episodes of the original Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross, and the twenty-five episodes and one OVA of the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA. They'll also reclaim international merchandising rights to Macross: Do You Remember Love?.

Unless Tatsunoko decides to start licensing the show out themselves and then file for trademark protection on those same key terms and logos that Harmony Gold did back in '99, Tatsunoko would only have control over the distribution and merchandising for the original TV series outside Japan, and merchandising for DYRL outside Japan. They would not be able to stop Big West and Bandai from going worldwide with DYRL on Blu-ray, or anything for other sequels.

Given that Tatsunoko has coveted a share of the Macross profits for years and even tried going to court on at least one occasion to argue (unsuccessfully) that their involvement in its production entitled them to it, so I suspect that they will want to strike a deal with Big West to handle international distribution of the entire franchise. They've been hurting the last couple years due to underwhelming sales of their various animated properties, so getting Macross would be a big shot in the arm for their bottom line.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Fri May 24, 2019 10:10 pm

Thank you. That makes sense given that Tatsunoko getting having the overseas rights to SDF Macross and DYRL, but it wouldn't include any of the sequel stuff.

I'm guessing that Big West/Bandai would work with them for bringing Macross over? Cause they squashed their beef in court many years ago.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri May 24, 2019 10:19 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 10:10 pm
I'm guessing that Big West/Bandai would work with them for bringing Macross over? Cause they squashed their beef in court many years ago.
That is my earnest hope.

Tatsunoko's had a rough couple years, but they've been actively courting Big West... sending congratulatory boquets and the like to various Macross events and collaborating with them on lawsuits against companies unlawfully using the Macross IP or suspected of such.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Fri May 31, 2019 11:52 am

Say, has anyone here bought a Variable Fighter Girls yet? What is your impression of it?

Also, save for a few mentions in Frontier and Delta (and the games, if you count them), has there been a serious discussion on Lynn Minmay's career and its legacy as an artist? I mean, in-universe historians must have written tons of books about her involvement during the War, but what about her artistic and cultural contributions? Having people (like Ranka) trying to emulate her decades after her disappearance is the premise to a long discussion on itself.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri May 31, 2019 1:22 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:52 am
Say, has anyone here bought a Variable Fighter Girls yet? What is your impression of it?
Mecha musume and female character statuettes are definitely not my type of merchandise.

My girlfriend collects character statues and has given me one or two as gifts, but nothing provocative/exploitative.

In general, I'm kind of dismayed that Macross Delta's merchandising is so weak that it's fallen back on waifu BS and mecha musume... but I guess that's what you get when your show doesn't have an actual story and you've got no other way for characters to appeal beyond fanservice. :roll:


False Prophet wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:52 am
Also, save for a few mentions in Frontier and Delta (and the games, if you count them), has there been a serious discussion on Lynn Minmay's career and its legacy as an artist? I mean, in-universe historians must have written tons of books about her involvement during the War, but what about her artistic and cultural contributions? Having people (like Ranka) trying to emulate her decades after her disappearance is the premise to a long discussion on itself.
Minmay's career wasn't even three years long (11/2009-09/2012).

Given that her career started during the First Space War and essentially ended with her departure as a passenger on the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 early in the postwar reconstruction period, in-setting discussion of Lynn Minmay's career inevitably revolves almost exclusively around her role in the war. She was a lot less active after the war's conclusion thanks to the difficult living conditions on Earth and the turbulent nature of her relationships with her manager Kaifun and her friend Hikaru Ichijyo.

Much of Lynn Minmay's enduring cultural impact in the years that followed her departure into deep space can't be attributed to her personally. Rather, it's a result of the fictionalized versions of her who've appeared in historical dramas like the 2031 film Do You Remember Love?, the 2045 TV drama The Lynn Minmay Story and the 206X galaxy network drama series The Lynn Minmay Files. There were probably others as well, like the 2012 film The Truth of South Ataria Island mentioned in Master File. These later generations of singers are not inspired by Minmay herself so much as the fictionalized dramatizations of her life story that've been made into popular entertainment. The 2031 film Do You Remember Love? was the inspiration for many singers, such as Basara Nekki, Mylene Jenius, and Emilia Jenius. Walkure members Reina Prowler and Makina Nakajima were both self-confessed fans of the drama series The Lynn Minmay Files.

The only singers who acknowledge an inspiration that's other than a fictionalized version of Minmay were Chelsea Scarlett, Ranka Lee, and Freyja Wion, who were inspired (respectively) by Fire Bomber, Sheryl Nome, and Ranka Lee. Chelsea Scarlett's case is, thus far, unique in that her inspiration to become a singer came not from being a fan of Fire Bomber but from being one of the Varauta colonists rescued from mind control by them in 2046 after the Protodeviln conflict ended.
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