The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

[Seto Kaiba]

How did you find out about that? Was there a booklet given away at the show explaining all of these?

Luckily, that's basically the crux of the entire musical's plot, so it's reasonably well described in various promotional articles in magazines and so on... plus Macross Chronicle also had some modest coverage of it.

The plot revolves around the "Neo Zentran" anti-pacifism movement that one of the main characters is the head of, which despite what you might expect from a name like that was a peaceful movement looking to effect change via political means, and the current administration's bread-and-circuses attempt to distract people from it with a Miss Macross Contest that a radical faction takes hostage.

Unfortunately, it has an incredibly stupid resolution where they decide to try to revitalize the economy through the entertainment industry instead.

Also, what would happen when two fleets decided to wage war against each other? Would NUNS jump in?

It'd be the local New UN Spacy defense forces of the two fleets doing the fighting... but the federal New UN Spacy likely would not intervene unless the conflict started to get out of control and the New UN Government proved to be unable to establish a diplomatic solution.

That's also the reason that the federal New UN Forces didn't intervene in Windermere IV's 2067 invasion of the other worlds in the Brisingr globular cluster. It was regarded as a politically sensitive local conflict, so it was left to their local counterparts in the Brisingr Alliance.

(After the events of Macross VF-X2, the New UN Government is much more "hands off" when it comes to stuff going on between individual member worlds. The whole reason for the Second Unification War was overreach with the New UN Government and federal New UN Forces suppressing colony worlds and fleets to maintain their central power.)

[False Prophet]

Luckily, that's basically the crux of the entire musical's plot, so it's reasonably well described in various promotional articles in magazines and so on... plus Macross Chronicle also had some modest coverage of it.

The plot revolves around the "Neo Zentran" anti-pacifism movement that one of the main characters is the head of, which despite what you might expect from a name like that was a peaceful movement looking to effect change via political means, and the current administration's bread-and-circuses attempt to distract people from it with a Miss Macross Contest that a radical faction takes hostage.

Unfortunately, it has an incredibly stupid resolution where they decide to try to revitalize the economy through the entertainment industry instead.

To be fair, it is quite a dicey situation whose possible process toward a real resolution might be too lengthy and gritty for a musical. IMHO, trying to revitalize the economy through the entertainment industry might had been a logical conclusion:

Basically, the best way to solve the current problem (as I see it) is the ruling establishment abandon their charade, accept the situation and try to establish conversation with the activists. But it was the same as admitting their weakness and sharing some of their power, something most politicians would consider suicide. And so they came up with the rhetoric of "revitalize the economy" as another smokescreen...

Am I too cynical here? The more I read into Macross, the more I think that there are some really dark things behind all the bright colors and sweet melodies.

It'd be the local New UN Spacy defense forces of the two fleets doing the fighting... but the federal New UN Spacy likely would not intervene unless the conflict started to get out of control and the New UN Government proved to be unable to establish a diplomatic solution.

That's also the reason that the federal New UN Forces didn't intervene in Windermere IV's 2067 invasion of the other worlds in the Brisingr globular cluster. It was regarded as a politically sensitive local conflict, so it was left to their local counterparts in the Brisingr Alliance.

(After the events of Macross VF-X2, the New UN Government is much more "hands off" when it comes to stuff going on between individual member worlds. The whole reason for the Second Unification War was overreach with the New UN Government and federal New UN Forces suppressing colony worlds and fleets to maintain their central power.)

Do we have any record detailing the Second Unification War? How well, performance-wise, did different VF model do?

Also, any English sources which I can read about the story of VF-X2? How many times has terrorists and rebels screwed things up big time for NUNS again? A reliable source? I am kind of conflicting about one thing I read about the war during 0 - Was it the Soviet Union or the Russian Federation that existed during the first war?

[Seto Kaiba]

To be fair, it is quite a dicey situation whose possible process toward a real resolution might be too lengthy and gritty for a musical. IMHO, trying to revitalize the economy through the entertainment industry might had been a logical conclusion:

Basically, the best way to solve the current problem (as I see it) is the ruling establishment abandon their charade, accept the situation and try to establish conversation with the activists. But it was the same as admitting their weakness and sharing some of their power, something most politicians would consider suicide. And so they came up with the rhetoric of "revitalize the economy" as another smokescreen...

You're giving Serge Glass way, WAY more credit than he deserves... as the Macross-29 fleet's head of state, he's too cowardly and confrontation-averse to engage in scheming or political gamesmanship like that. Throwing that Miss Macross Contest was a desperate, futile attempt to make a problem he didn't want to deal with go away and give his popularity a shot in the arm. Basically the only thing that saved his job was that Vigo Walgria, the head of the Neo Zentran movement, is straight up lawful stupid and took responsibility for the hostage situation even though he had literally nothing to do with it.

Am I too cynical here? The more I read into Macross, the more I think that there are some really dark things behind all the bright colors and sweet melodies.

I'd call it the setting's worst kept secret, but since several entire stories literally depend on it being right out there for all to see it isn't much of a secret.

There is a list. It is an EXTENSIVE one.

Do we have any record detailing the Second Unification War? How well, performance-wise, did different VF model do?

Not as such, no. The term seems to be one that was recently coined by the Macross Delta novelization to refer to the period around Macross Digital Mission VF-X and Macross VF-X2 where the proxy warfare between the Earth Supremacists and Pro-Autonomy factions in the New UN Government and New UN Forces were duking it out via Latence and Vindirance.

Macross VF-X2 is arguably the climax of the Second Unification War, since it led to the exposure and swift dissolution of the Latence faction during their attempted coup d'etat.

Also, any English sources which I can read about the story of VF-X2? How many times has terrorists and rebels screwed things up big time for NUNS again? A reliable source?

Not in English, AFAIK.

I am kind of conflicting about one thing I read about the war during 0 - Was it the Soviet Union or the Russian Federation that existed during the first war?

That's more to do with real world events.

The first few iterations of Macross's timeline were written in the 1980s when the Soviet Union was still very much a thing. Obviously nobody knew at the time that the Soviet Union was going to collapse in 1991. Timeline materials written after the Soviet Union's dissolution on 26 December 1991 change those references to the Soviet Union into references to the Russian Federation. The timeline of Macross is supposed to be the same as the real world's until around 17 July 1999 when Alien SpaceShip One was detected.

[yazi88]

I wonder if we might see a Zentradi/non-Earth human male protagonist/main character. All the male ones are human based in the Macross series to my knowledge unless there is one in side materials like manga/novels/games... Guld is more of a antagonist/rival too. When I say human I mean ones whose lineage is from Earth rather than human like species in the Macross world.

We've had female main characters that are part Zentradi or non-Earth human, but not male ones.

[pirx]

Ernest Johnson is protagonist. Not the main one though. At least i think he is mixed ancestry, it was implied in the show if i recall.
Would be nice of next Macross series to concentrate on Guldworks (he runs his own overtech company?) and probably some new developments like 6th gen fighter.

[Seto Kaiba]

I wonder if we might see a Zentradi/non-Earth human male protagonist/main character. All the male ones are human based in the Macross series to my knowledge unless there is one in side materials like manga/novels/games... Guld is more of a antagonist/rival too. When I say human I mean ones whose lineage is from Earth rather than human like species in the Macross world.

We've had quite main characters who were either humans not born on Earth or part-Zentradi...

• Macross 7's Mylene F. Jenius is a half-Zentradi born in deep space aboard the New UN Spacy carrier Red Moon in the vicinity of the Eta Carina nebula.
• Macross 7's Gamlin Kizaki is a human born in H.G. Wells City on Mars according to a personnel file shown on screen in the series.
• Macross Dynamite 7's Elma Hoyly is arguably a main character, and she's a Zolan born and raised on Zola.
• Macross Frontier's Alto Saotome was born aboard Island-1 the year after the titular fleet departed.
• Macross Frontier's Sheryl Nome was board aboard Macross Galaxy's mainland module.
• Macross Frontier's Ranka Lee was a quarter-Zentradi born aboard the first-generation Macross SDFN-04 General Bruno J. Global.
• Macross the Ride main character Chelsea Scarlett is a Zentradi woman who was born on Varauta, both of her parents were part of the Megaroad-13's civilian contingent.
• Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E's two protagonists, Kinjo Kite and Pirika Polywanov were both born out on the edges of the New UN Government's sphere of influence.
• Macross Delta Gaiden: The White Knight of the Black Wing's entire cast, except for cameo character Wright Immelmann, are Windermerean.
• Pretty much NONE of the characters from Macross Delta are from Earth.
• Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy protagonist Reon Sakaki is from Sephira.
• Macross M3 main character (latter stages) Moaramia Jifon Jenius's birthplace is unknown but almost certainly not Earth as she was raised by a Zentradi rebel group.
• Macross Generation's main character Passero is from a satellite city (space colony) orbiting Jupiter. Only one prominent character in that story ISN'T from a space colony in the outer solar system (that'd be Canari Minmay, who is allegedly from Earth).
• Macross the Musiculture's main character Vigo Walgria is a Zentradi man (birthplace unknown). Many of the characters were either born aboard Macross-29 or moved there from other emigrant fleets or planets.
• Macross 2036's main character was Komilia Maria Jenius, a half-Zentradi woman.

[yazi88]

I know that a lot of the female protagonists are usually half alien/zentradi. But I was asking about the male protagonists who are Alien and not descended from Earth Immigrant Fleets that went to colonize other planets/fleets. Sorry if it sounded confusing.

And you have answered my question with Windermere and Zentradi male protagonists in side story materials. So thank you.

[Seto Kaiba]

I know that a lot of the female protagonists are usually half alien/zentradi. But I was asking about the male protagonists who are Alien and not descended from Earth Immigrant Fleets that went to colonize other planets/fleets. Sorry if it sounded confusing.

OK, I totally misunderstood what you were asking.

Unfortunately, since Earth is one of only two planets launching emigrant fleets en masse, it's kinda 50-50 here...

[False Prophet]

Unfortunately, since Earth is one of only two planets launching emigrant fleets en masse, it's kinda 50-50 here...

So, what is the second planet? Must have been an important place.

Also, have the name of the SDFN-2 and SDFN-3 been given? I wonder whose name would they be named after? And why wasn't more Megaroad-class being built instead of the new Macross-class?

And have anyone managed to preserve a recording of Macross Generation?

[Seto Kaiba]

So, what is the second planet? Must have been an important place.

Eden, the oldest human colony outside of the Sol system... and the one with the most factory satellites after Sol.

Also, have the name of the SDFN-2 and SDFN-3 been given? I wonder whose name would they be named after?

Nope. Presumably they would be named after UN Forces or New UN Forces Generals the way SDFN-01, SDFN-04, and SDFN-08 were... those being the General Takashi Hayase, General Bruno J. Global, and General Vrlitwhai Kridanik respectively.

And why wasn't more Megaroad-class being built instead of the new Macross-class?

Oh, there were a great many reasons for that.

When you get down to the bottom line, the Megaroad-class really wasn't that good at its job. Being a hasty conversion from a space warship meant that the structural strength of its frame and hull are subpar compared to most any fighting ship thanks to all the compromises made to put a city where most of its superstructure used to be. On top of being fragile, the design compromises that made the habitat sections possible also made slow and prevented it from having more than the most minimal defensive armament. A ship that sucks at both protecting itself AND at running away is a less than ideal option if your goal is to keep its civilian cargo safe. The quality of the habitat zones and their recycling systems weren't fantastic either.

One of the other considerations that led to the Megaroad-class's retirement was that the New UN Gov't was scaling up emigrant missions considerably. The Megaroad-class could only hold a few tens of thousands at a time, and their fleets usually were only around 100,000 people. With the New UN Government looking to go to a population ten times the size, you either launch a fleet with ten Megaroad-class ships and try to figure out how to travel between them or you build a bigger and better ship.

The New Macross-class was a monstrous improvement over the Megaroad-class in every respect. The new, much larger emigrant ship design was still slow but it was incredibly well-defended. Every emigrant ship's habitat section now has a Macross-type warship permanently assigned to it for its protection and dock space for two more if they were available. They had the facilities in those docks to BUILD more Macross-type warships to defend themselves or service the warships of their fleet in the field. They had a huge shell of battleship-grade armor that could be lowered over the dome to protect it in dangerous situations. With the Battle-class in dock they had multiply-redundant fold systems in case one was damaged and hundreds of variable fighters as a decent anti-aircraft defense. Not to mention that the vast increase in size meant a significant increase in both total populations and the amount of space available. They could have artificial natural areas, significant space available for recreation and sports, provide a better simulation of a planet's day/night cycle and weather, and much better recycling technology for reprocessing everything from biological waste to refined metals and other materials to reduce the ship's dependency on resupply from planets. Improvements in technology also meant a City-class could be used for significantly longer than a Megaroad-class if necessary, and that they'd support more population growth during a longer journey.

Basically, the 3rd Generation New Macross-class ships that the New UN Government started using in 2030 were better than the Megaroad-class in every way. It was no contest. The ships got bigger and better at recycling and providing emulation of natural habitats as time went on, culminating in the 4th Generation ships built around chemical recycling plants and the 5th Generation ships using bioplant recycling that used natural ecosystems (artificially cultivated) to recycle biological materials. Fleet populations went from ~100,000 in an emigrant fleet led by a Megaroad-class to ~1,000,000 in New Macross-class fleets, to 10,000,000 in fleets led by an Island Cluster-class.

And have anyone managed to preserve a recording of Macross Generation?

I believe it was released on CD.

[yazi88]

Is there any new info about the Macross Elysion or what class it is? Its been a long time since I've heard about its class. Wasn't it related to the Macross Quarter class from Frontier but over twice the size? Its not as powerful as the New Macross class right?

[False Prophet]

Eden, the oldest human colony outside of the Sol system... and the one with the most factory satellites after Sol.

Hmm... After the Space War I, how far could humanity gaze into the star? Did they send the emigration fleets with no specific habitable system in mind, or did they have a generally idea about where the possibility was highest?

Oh, there were a great many reasons for that.

When you get down to the bottom line, the Megaroad-class really wasn't that good at its job. Being a hasty conversion from a space warship meant that the structural strength of its frame and hull are subpar compared to most any fighting ship thanks to all the compromises made to put a city where most of its superstructure used to be. On top of being fragile, the design compromises that made the habitat sections possible also made slow and prevented it from having more than the most minimal defensive armament. A ship that sucks at both protecting itself AND at running away is a less than ideal option if your goal is to keep its civilian cargo safe. The quality of the habitat zones and their recycling systems weren't fantastic either.

One of the other considerations that led to the Megaroad-class's retirement was that the New UN Gov't was scaling up emigrant missions considerably. The Megaroad-class could only hold a few tens of thousands at a time, and their fleets usually were only around 100,000 people. With the New UN Government looking to go to a population ten times the size, you either launch a fleet with ten Megaroad-class ships and try to figure out how to travel between them or you build a bigger and better ship.

The New Macross-class was a monstrous improvement over the Megaroad-class in every respect. The new, much larger emigrant ship design was still slow but it was incredibly well-defended. Every emigrant ship's habitat section now has a Macross-type warship permanently assigned to it for its protection and dock space for two more if they were available. They had the facilities in those docks to BUILD more Macross-type warships to defend themselves or service the warships of their fleet in the field. They had a huge shell of battleship-grade armor that could be lowered over the dome to protect it in dangerous situations. With the Battle-class in dock they had multiply-redundant fold systems in case one was damaged and hundreds of variable fighters as a decent anti-aircraft defense. Not to mention that the vast increase in size meant a significant increase in both total populations and the amount of space available. They could have artificial natural areas, significant space available for recreation and sports, provide a better simulation of a planet's day/night cycle and weather, and much better recycling technology for reprocessing everything from biological waste to refined metals and other materials to reduce the ship's dependency on resupply from planets. Improvements in technology also meant a City-class could be used for significantly longer than a Megaroad-class if necessary, and that they'd support more population growth during a longer journey.

Basically, the 3rd Generation New Macross-class ships that the New UN Government started using in 2030 were better than the Megaroad-class in every way. It was no contest. The ships got bigger and better at recycling and providing emulation of natural habitats as time went on, culminating in the 4th Generation ships built around chemical recycling plants and the 5th Generation ships using bioplant recycling that used natural ecosystems (artificially cultivated) to recycle biological materials. Fleet populations went from ~100,000 in an emigrant fleet led by a Megaroad-class to ~1,000,000 in New Macross-class fleets, to 10,000,000 in fleets led by an Island Cluster-class.

Still haven't got around to watch the original Macross yet, so can I ask this question: Why did NUNS started the colonization program so quickly after the war? They could had waited for the reconstruction of Earth and the development of proper technologies for space explorations - like rectifying the inherent weakness of the Megaroad-class?

Also, is the chance of Hikaru and his family getting out alive from whatever they encountered get significantly lower because they were riding on a Megaroad?

I believe it was released on CD.

Is there any subtitle, then? The only thing I could have found were summaries for the individual episodes: http://www.usagi.org/doi/seiyuu/drama/m ... index.html

[Seto Kaiba]

Is there any new info about the Macross Elysion or what class it is? Its been a long time since I've heard about its class. Wasn't it related to the Macross Quarter class from Frontier but over twice the size? Its not as powerful as the New Macross class right?

To give you an idea of just how badly Macross Delta shortchanged mecha fans... there is virtually no info on the Macross Elysion outside of a vague statement that its height in Storming Attacker mode is approximately the same as the Burj Khalifa in Dubai (828m). That's it. That's literally ALL WE HAVE... and this is the ship that's literally the backdrop for half the series and a good chunk of the movie.

Hmm... After the Space War I, how far could humanity gaze into the star?

Not much farther than we can now.

One of the many ways that Macross differs from your standard popular science fiction settings is that there aren't any of those exotic, seemingly magical generic sensor systems that can do whatever the plot demands like detect and identify individual life forms on ships hundreds of thousands of kilometers away or identify planets at distances of dozens of light years.

Virtually all of the sensor technology in Macross's universe is real world technology... long-range detection systems use RADAR and LIDAR, and are supplemented at shorter ranges with high-powered camera systems and infrared detectors. They also have more exotic, but still quite real, sensor technologies like gravitational wave detectors. The only exotic sensor technology in the setting is cross-dimensional RADAR, AKA fold wave RADAR. Functionally, it works just like RADAR only it's longer-ranged and FTL.

Long-range telescopes like the Kepler space observatory can identify probable systems in close proximity to our own, but even in Macross the only way to actually know anything about the planets there and identify if a planet is habitable is to go there and survey it. This is, of course, why emigrant fleets are outfitted to spend a long time wandering the stars in search of a habitable planet.

Did they send the emigration fleets with no specific habitable system in mind, or did they have a generally idea about where the possibility was highest?

For the most part. emigrant fleets were sent out without even a general idea of a destination. The goal was for them to essentially wander the stars in search of planets capable of supporting human life, which is why they're mostly built to be nice places to live.

They were divided into two types of fleet:

• Short-Distance Emigrant Fleets composed of repurposed Zentradi Army warships were launched to explore the volume of space within ~100ly of Earth in search of habitable worlds.
• Long-Distance Emigrant Fleets centered on purpose-built long-duration colony ships were sent out to discover habitable planets outside that 100ly radius.

Depending on the courses their civilian and military leaders set, most fleets were expected to be exploring the galaxy for a decade or so before finding a habitable planet. Some didn't travel that far but searched wide areas of the galaxy, like Macross-5. Others kept to a fairly straight line and ended up all the way across the galaxy like Megaroad-04.

Still haven't got around to watch the original Macross yet, so can I ask this question: Why did NUNS started the colonization program so quickly after the war?

The New UN Government's decision to initiate a program of interstellar space colonization so soon after the First Space War was motivated mainly by the knowledge that humanity had only avoided extinction in that war by the narrowest margin imaginable. Barely 1 million humans had survived, all of whom were either sheltered in Grand Cannon systems 6 kilometers underground or in out in space aboard starships and space colonies. Earth's surface was totally obliterated by the Zentradi Army's Boddole Zer main fleet. Massed bombardment by nearly 5 million Zentradi Army warships left the planet's surface a sterile desert generally incapable of supporting life.

The existential threat posed by the Zentradi Army exceeded even the most pessimistic assessments by the Earth UN Government and UN Forces from before the war. They had been preparing to face down an enemy fleet of a few hundred to a few thousand ships tops... not millions. The New UN Government knew only too well that that "victory" was mostly down to getting stupidly lucky, and that they had no hope of victory over a force that large should there be anything like a level playing field. With over 3 million of the Boddole Zer main fleet's 4,795,122 ship fleet still at large after retreating, and armed with intelligence that the Boddole Zer main fleet was one of THOUSANDS of main fleets, the New UN Government had more reason than it could ever have wanted to pursue space colonization aggressively and immediately to ensure humanity's remaining eggs weren't all kept in a single basket should the Zentradi Army come calling again.

They could had waited for the reconstruction of Earth and the development of proper technologies for space explorations - like rectifying the inherent weakness of the Megaroad-class?

Even with the cloning technology obtained from captured and surrendered Zentradi Army ships and facilities, the optimistic outlook for restoring Earth's surface to something approximating its prewar conditions was over 10,000 years. Even 30 years on in Macross Plus, Earth's surface is mostly a barren desert. That crater-pocked sand pit you saw Isamu and Guld dogfighting over? That's Alaska.

(The postwar planetary capital, Macross City, was built on a desert plain near the site of Grand Cannon 1 in what used to be the Yukon Charlie Rivers National Recreation Area close to Alaska's shared border with Canada's Yukon territory.)

Waiting around for ten millennia while over 2,000 more Zentradi Army main fleets like the one that'd just cleaned their proverbial clocks were tooling around the galaxy and over 3,000,000 ships from that selfsame fleet were still out there would have been a stupidly suicidal idea even if the planet wasn't basically uninhabitable at the time.

Also, is the chance of Hikaru and his family getting out alive from whatever they encountered get significantly lower because they were riding on a Megaroad?

If they were attacked by something, then yeah... the Megaroad-class wasn't made for fighting, or being anywhere close to fighting. It's a city in a bottle, with all the fragility that implies.

Is there any subtitle, then? The only thing I could have found were summaries for the individual episodes: http://www.usagi.org/doi/seiyuu/drama/m ... index.html

I've not seen any translations of it, though I don't have a comprehensive index of all translations.

[pirx]

I finally finished to watch that hodgepodge called Macross Delta movie. Ummm hmm yeah... you were right, Seto. It is very badly edited together. Kind of reminds me of the first Gundam SEED movie. Unless you have watched the series you will not understand the plot, seems like that wanted to repeat Macross DYRL success but failed.

[Seto Kaiba]

I finally finished to watch that hodgepodge called Macross Delta movie. Ummm hmm yeah... you were right, Seto. It is very badly edited together. Kind of reminds me of the first Gundam SEED movie. Unless you have watched the series you will not understand the plot, seems like that wanted to repeat Macross DYRL success but failed.

Yeah, it's a pretty standard compilation movie in that regard... the first by-the-numbers compilation movie that the Macross franchise has ever produced. Normally they go for extensive reimaginings.

The last twenty minutes aren't bad, but the nicest thing that can be said for the rest of the movie is that it exists.

[pirx]

Yea, because DYRL and both Frontier movies are definitely not a compilations, they are alternative ways to tell the same story, not using animation from the series. I still hope for Macross Zero movie...

[Seto Kaiba]

Yea, because DYRL and both Frontier movies are definitely not a compilations, they are alternative ways to tell the same story, not using animation from the series. I still hope for Macross Zero movie...

Don't hold your breath for that one... Zero was not well-received in Japan.

[yazi88]

Zero's long production did not help either. Along with its weak story. It probably is the weakest animated product in the Macross franchise.

[Seto Kaiba]

Zero's long production did not help either. Along with its weak story. It probably is the weakest animated product in the Macross franchise.

Production wasn't that long for an OVA, but what really hurt it when it was coming out was how dark they made the story.

Every time the Macross franchise tries to do a dark installment, it ends up testing poorly with the audience... like Macross II and Macross Plus.

[pirx]

One can always dream, right? Seeing how DYRL, Frontier and Plus movies turned out, i can always hope for Zero movie
Macross Plus was a bit more darker and "adult" in this matter but was it a commercial failure? Really?
I understood that Kawamori made movie version to compensate for some drama in OVA version. I for one like OVA better but ending is more fleshed out in movie version for sure.