The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

[False Prophet]

Oh, AI technology is EVERYWHERE in the Macross universe. It's been there since the very beginning. The avionics package of every VF has always included a "super-AI" airframe management system that handles all of the user input via the controls, ascertains the pilot's intent, and issues appropriate instructions to the various motive systems of the VF.

EDIT: When I say "always" I don't just mean in terms of in-universe chronology... it's been part of the lore since the earliest published technical materials.

In flight, it coordinates and presents all of the sensor data from the various radar, lidar, optical, infrared, and other sensors as well as managing the control surfaces, thrust vectoring nozzles, airflow management systems like the boundary layer control system and vortex flow controller, vernier thrusters, and so on. While on the ground it handles limb placements, balance, posture, body kinesthetics, aiming (using feedback from optical pointing systems), sensor integration, and a bunch of other functions.

The AI system used by the first three generations of Variable Fighter was called ANGIRAS... which a shoulder-surfing colleague just pointed out to me is not merely an unusual acronym. What it officially stands for is the Anti-Neumann-type Generalized Integration Renormalization Aided System, though apparently "Angiras" is the name of a Vedic sage in Hinduism who was a mediator between men and the gods, and also famous for using his internal focus to attain godlike power.

Starting from the 4th Generation (Advanced) Variable Fighters, the ANGIRAS AI system was retired in favor of the next-generation ARIEL system. I am not aware of any official explanation of the acronym's meaning, but it may be a similarly out-there mythological reference. Quite possibly a reference to the angel in 17th century mysticism who was purported to be the archon of the winds, a spirit of air, and a wielder of fire... and probably inspired the (invisible) spirit character Ariel in Shakespeare's The Tempest.

Destroids and other land mecha almost certainly use similar AI management technology.

All of the Ghosts have been equipped with AIs, though the initial models were rather unstable in that regard and the hardware to produce an AI that could take action as unpredictably as a flesh-and-blood pilot proved to be dangerously prone to a specific type of breakdown that would cause it to develop a self-preservation instinct.

The Macross Galaxy fleet comes pretty close... they'd reached the point where they were experimenting in the field of installing AIs in the brains of their people to instantly install the necessary skills and training to function as soldiers. Macross the Ride supporting character Maris Stella was one of the prototypes of that cyborg soldier series, and was sharing her head with an advanced battle tactics AI.

The novels also have them making extensive use of an AI developed from the digitized mind of one Manfred Brando, an AI class named MANFRED.

Thanks you for reminding me about AI, but did not you once said that the prospect of a true sentience AI ended with Sharon Apple? How human-like were the AI from the Macross the Ride anyway? Had they reached the stage that they could emulate human to the point that no input from human was needed? Also, wasn't Earth Maiden Arjuna packed with cues from religions? Maybe that was what Kawamori had in mind with ARIEL?

[Seto Kaiba]

Thanks you for reminding me about AI, but did not you once said that the prospect of a true sentience AI ended with Sharon Apple?

Development of responsive/sentient virtuoids was banned, and the underlying technology that caused Sharon Apple to go fully sentient (and fully berserk) was already illegal before the Sharon Apple incident. The AI technology that was developed by the Macross Concern for both Sharon Apple and the Ghost X-9 ended up scrapped because it proved to be so unstable. (Maybe next time don't model it on a girl who's carrying emotional baggage beyond the wildest dreams of therapists, lads...)

That doesn't rule out potentially-illegal developments by groups that really don't give a damn about laws, like the Macross Galaxy fleet...

How human-like were the AI from the Macross the Ride anyway?

The only thing that's really noted about the battle tactics AI installed in Maris Stella was that she changed personality dramatically when the AI was in control and became a much colder person.

That AI was installed in the brain of an already-sentient person though, so it's not clear how much of its "interpersonal skills" were borrowed from its cyborg "host".

Had they reached the stage that they could emulate human to the point that no input from human was needed?

Difficult to say, for the reason above... the only standalone "smart" AIs we ever see are the ones that are modeled on the mind of a living person, e.g. Sharon Apple being a model of Myung's mind or the Galaxy fleet's Manfred being a model of Manfred Brando.

Also, wasn't Earth Maiden Arjuna packed with cues from religions? Maybe that was what Kawamori had in mind with ARIEL?

I haven't seen Earth Maiden Arjuna, so I couldn't comment on that score.

Kawamori's work tends to be rather hit-and-miss for me outside of Macross.

[pirx]

Didn't Kawamori made Escaflowne?
To be honest outside of Macross as another space anime i like Leijiverse. Just because of that retro sci-fi feel.

[Seto Kaiba]

Didn't Kawamori made Escaflowne?

Yes, The Vision of Escaflowne was one of Kawamori's.

The only title he's worked on that I find truly repellant is Psalm of Planets Eureka Seven, and that was mostly not his fault since he only did mechanical design and the writers were the ones who made the show unwatchable.

[Henyo]

reads up on Macross' AI tech...

made me wonder if we'll ever get a character along the lines of a Reploid or the like. and that could lead to new developments for VF tech. though wouldn't that present the VF's once again gaining Super Robot traits?

on the subject of Kawamori works. moi thinks it's an acquired taste like Tomino's. i just rewatched Macross Zero out on a whim and i found it was rather enjoyable. CG hasn't aged well but the mech action is satisfying to watch. not to mention Kamiya Akira.

[Seto Kaiba]

made me wonder if we'll ever get a character along the lines of a Reploid or the like. and that could lead to new developments for VF tech. though wouldn't that present the VF's once again gaining Super Robot traits?

Technologically speaking, the only real obstacles to making something along the lines of a reploid in Macross's "present day" would be the insane price tag and that the only (known) mature technology capable of achieving it is known to be terribly unstable and prone to producing dangerous self-preservation behaviors (and is illegal because of that).

You'd basically just need to stick the circuitry for one of the self-aware virtuoids into the braincase of one of Macross Galaxy's "cyber-grunt" troops...

[pirx]

Did'nt knew Kawamori was involved with Eureka 7.
Autumn is coming but no new information about next series.
Seto - if you will find out something, will you post it here please?

[Seto Kaiba]

Did'nt knew Kawamori was involved with Eureka 7.

He did mechanical design work for the LFOs and KLFs in the series... including the Nirvash.

(Selections from his work on the series can be found in his Design Works book.)

Autumn is coming but no new information about next series.
Seto - if you will find out something, will you post it here please?

Assuming this latest series is following approximately the same production and release schedule the previous two used, I would not expect to hear news of any real significance until around Halloween with the reveal of the first trailer.

Both Macross Frontier and Macross Delta had their titles revealed at major Macross events in late September, then their first trailers in late October, and with relatively little in terms of info about their settings or stories until shortly before the teaser version of the first episode aired near the end of December, with the actual start of broadcast being in April of the following year.

As soon as we know something of import, I'll be sure to post it.




On a related matter, Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure is now shipping to preorder customers outside Japan. I got my shipping notice last night, with FedEx promising delivery sometime tomorrow.

[Seto Kaiba]

My copy of Macross Delta: Passionate Walkure rolled in this morning.

I've done a quick and dirty translation of the technical specs for the VF-31S Armored Siegfried from the liner notes.

[pirx]

Nice! Looking forward on hearing your thoughts on the movie.

[Seto Kaiba]

Nice! Looking forward on hearing your thoughts on the movie.

Unfortunately I never got a chance to see it in theaters... I'd originally planned to take some time off to see it on a business trip, but due to conflicting concerns from another client I ended up getting off the plane in Cali instead.

Hopefully I'll get 'round to watching it tonight. My translation of the Armored Siegfried's specs is in the Macross Valkyries thread.

[False Prophet]

Also, wasn't Earth Maiden Arjuna packed with cues from religions? Maybe that was what Kawamori had in mind with ARIEL?

I haven't seen Earth Maiden Arjuna, so I couldn't comment on that score.

Kawamori's work tends to be rather hit-and-miss for me outside of Macross.

On the topic of Kawamori, what do you think about the following comment from Shinji Aramaki from the recent Otakon (I heard of this from the Anime New World Order podcast):

"A great visionary director is Shoji Kawamori. In other words, someone who gets the feel of the animation, to possess an inquiring mind that is constantly seeking something interesting, something new. Therein the true meaning of the word creator."

(Also, I've no idea that Aramaki is that amazing. Who could have thought that Lego could help to build transformation mechas?")

[Seto Kaiba]

On the topic of Kawamori, what do you think about the following comment from Shinji Aramaki from the recent Otakon (I heard of this from the Anime New World Order podcast):

"A great visionary director is Shoji Kawamori. In other words, someone who gets the feel of the animation, to possess an inquiring mind that is constantly seeking something interesting, something new. Therein the true meaning of the word creator."

"Visionary" is a word that gets stuck on Kawamori a LOT. It's even in the title of his biography, Viewpoint of a Visionary Creator.

[False Prophet]

On the topic of Kawamori, what do you think about the following comment from Shinji Aramaki from the recent Otakon (I heard of this from the Anime New World Order podcast):

"A great visionary director is Shoji Kawamori. In other words, someone who gets the feel of the animation, to possess an inquiring mind that is constantly seeking something interesting, something new. Therein the true meaning of the word creator."

"Visionary" is a word that gets stuck on Kawamori a LOT. It's even in the title of his biography, Viewpoint of a Visionary Creator.

Really? I know that in the West he was really underappreciated, but how does Japanese fans think of him?

[Seto Kaiba]

Really? I know that in the West he was really underappreciated, but how does Japanese fans think of him?

He's appreciated a bit better in the West than you're giving him credit for... with a number of news sites like Forbes crediting him as "the creator Hollywood imitates but never credits".

In Japan he's quite a well-regarded, if somewhat auteur, creator.

In general, I tend to think of him as one of the few creators out there from anime's golden age who isn't either cynically resigned to the current heavily-commercial state of the industry or surrendering to the march of the sequels. He always wants to make something new and fresh, so he experiments where others play it safe.

[False Prophet]

Really? I know that in the West he was really underappreciated, but how does Japanese fans think of him?

He's appreciated a bit better in the West than you're giving him credit for... with a number of news sites like Forbes crediting him as "the creator Hollywood imitates but never credits".

In Japan he's quite a well-regarded, if somewhat auteur, creator.

In general, I tend to think of him as one of the few creators out there from anime's golden age who isn't either cynically resigned to the current heavily-commercial state of the industry or surrendering to the march of the sequels. He always wants to make something new and fresh, so he experiments where others play it safe.

It was because of that Forbes article that I asked that question. It's kind of frustrated to see that a good number of talented mecha directors, screenwriters, designers, etc. being unknown to the larger anime fandoms except for the mecha circles.

Say, NUNS was reluctant to sell the standard VF-24 for distant colonies and exploration fleets, right? Then who do they trust enough to hand over the standard VF-24? Forces garrisoned in the Solar System? Special detachments under direct order from NUNS?

Also, have anyone here played this game: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3159/

[Dark Duel]

Did'nt knew Kawamori was involved with Eureka 7.

He did the mech designs. On a related note, Charles and Ray Beams? A married couple who pilot identical machines - his is blue, hers is red. Definitely NOT a coincidence.

[Seto Kaiba]

Say, NUNS was reluctant to sell the standard VF-24 for distant colonies and exploration fleets, right? Then who do they trust enough to hand over the standard VF-24? Forces garrisoned in the Solar System? Special detachments under direct order from NUNS?

Odds are there are very few operators of the true, full-spec VF-24. The New UN Government naturally wanted to ensure its forces - the "federal" New UN Forces - were superior to those of any one member world or fleet so they could defend against threats from outside and from within with equal ease. It was developed on Earth, the New UN Government top world in terms of technological advancement and manufacturing capability, and we know Earth's defense forces use it. Flight testing was carried out on Earth's closest extrasolar neighbor Eden at the New Edwards Test Flight Center, so it's likely Eden is also equipped with the VF-24 for its main planetary defenses. There may be one or two other worlds that are at the core of the New UN Government sphere of influence that are wealthy enough to afford the VF-24 and loyal to the point that the New UN Government wouldn't shrink from giving it to them, but none are identified.

Even the Independent Squadrons operating out in the boonies aren't allowed to have it, and have to make do with more local alternatives. The 815th Independent Squadron "Havamal" used the YF-29B Percival as a substitute for the VF-24 among its most elite pilots.

Also, have anyone here played this game: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/3159/

I'm familiar with the original mechanical designs from it, but I have not played it.

[Iris Scope]

In YouTube, I came across a particular Delta AMV that surprised and disturbed me in terms of the outright plagiarism that clearly happened in combining one of Freyja's songs with Earth Wind and Fire's "September".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvqXCK9tD7o

Not only is that weak in my opinion but it just feeds the fire for me to lose my respect for Delta as a concept and series. No wonder Ranka and Sheryl still get the fame even after their time with shows and movies is done!

[Seto Kaiba]

In YouTube, I came across a particular Delta AMV that surprised and disturbed me in terms of the outright plagiarism that clearly happened in combining one of Freyja's songs with Earth Wind and Fire's "September".

... brother, I am about to blow your mind.

That's almost certainly a stealth joke on the part of Macross Delta's creators.

The song she's singing is titled "When the Rune Sparkles in September", and the story is about a war between the New UN Government (Earth) and the Kingdom of the Wind, in the Brisingr (Norse for "Fire") globular cluster.

Not only is that weak in my opinion but it just feeds the fire for me to lose my respect for Delta as a concept and series. No wonder Ranka and Sheryl still get the fame even after their time with shows and movies is done!

Buddy, homages and sampling like that has been happening for at least half a millennium and probably a lot longer than that... it's nothing new to the music industry.

Sheryl and, to a lesser extent, Ranka are still extremely popular because of the strength of Macross Frontier as a series. The character is drawing at least as much attention as the singer behind her. Delta's problem on that front is that the writing was so weak and scattered that the members of Walkure didn't get characterization in the story, so the ONLY part of it that's drawing attention is the real world Walkure.

That said, Walkure is still making scads of cash with all the vigor that May'n and Megumi did in the wake of their appearance in Frontier, and possibly more. They are unaccountably INCREDIBLY popular, to the extent that raffle tickets where the prize is concert tickets are a preorder bonus in almost everything Macross Delta...