My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

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latenlazy
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by latenlazy » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:11 pm

Nikkolas wrote:
Between this and The Big O, which would you recommend more? I'm in a robots mood and I'm almost done with Gundam.
If you like noir in a postmodern context then the Big O.

Xenosynth
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Xenosynth » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:13 pm

You also might really like VOTOMs, at least, it's what I am watching at the moment, and it's pretty enjoyable.

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Darkerangel » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:49 pm

Nikkolas wrote:Isn't Macross responsible for Lacus Clyne? Or well her general idea or something was inspired by Macross.
That's what I heard.

I just don't need more Lacus....

Also do you mean like the original SDF Macross? What about Robotech? I know it's a touchy subject with some people which is why I've kinda avoided watching either. (and yes I know all about the sordid history of Robotech and weird anime business dealings and it only being 1/3 Macross and 2/3 something else)

Err...lets say Macross got it right compared to SEED. I can't explain it well enough, but I think the music has a specific important purpose for Macross where in SEED it wasn't touched on at all, it was just there.

Well for me, I have never witnessed Robotech, so I would be talking about both SDF Macross and Macross Movie: Do You Remember Love. Mind you, it's similar in style to Mobile Suit Gundam meaning that you as a viewer are defiantly invested in these characters verses now-a-days being full blown action based. Personally, I would start off with that first since it does open the pandora's box of everything else Macross afterwards.
Mobile Suit Gundam Rebirth A rogue space team called U-FEA is in search for the Beacon of Hope for the future of humanity. They will have to use the blueprints of the Mobile Weapons before them as part of their arsenal to take down the Xen-Dominion.

monster
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by monster » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:17 pm

Nikkolas wrote:Isn't Macross responsible for Lacus Clyne? Or well her general idea or something was inspired by Macross.
That's what I heard.

I just don't need more Lacus....

Also do you mean like the original SDF Macross? What about Robotech? I know it's a touchy subject with some people which is why I've kinda avoided watching either. (and yes I know all about the sordid history of Robotech and weird anime business dealings and it only being 1/3 Macross and 2/3 something else)
Based on the two Macross shows that I've seen, Lacus Clyne has nothing to do with Macross, for better or for worse. Any similarity is superficial.
Darkerangel wrote:Err...lets say Macross got it right compared to SEED. I can't explain it well enough, but I think the music has a specific important purpose for Macross where in SEED it wasn't touched on at all, it was just there.
It's not even about getting it right or wrong. As you've noted, the singing has no bearing on the plot in SEED/Destiny.

The multiple Macross shows and Gundam SEED/Destiny are two unrelated things.

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Darkerangel » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:28 pm

monster wrote:
Nikkolas wrote:Isn't Macross responsible for Lacus Clyne? Or well her general idea or something was inspired by Macross.
That's what I heard.

I just don't need more Lacus....

Also do you mean like the original SDF Macross? What about Robotech? I know it's a touchy subject with some people which is why I've kinda avoided watching either. (and yes I know all about the sordid history of Robotech and weird anime business dealings and it only being 1/3 Macross and 2/3 something else)
Based on the two Macross shows that I've seen, Lacus Clyne has nothing to do with Macross, for better or for worse. Any similarity is superficial.
Darkerangel wrote:Err...lets say Macross got it right compared to SEED. I can't explain it well enough, but I think the music has a specific important purpose for Macross where in SEED it wasn't touched on at all, it was just there.
It's not even about getting it right or wrong. As you've noted, the singing has no bearing on the plot in SEED/Destiny.

The multiple Macross shows and Gundam SEED/Destiny are two unrelated things.
Yes, thank you monster. :oops: That's what I wanted to say.
Mobile Suit Gundam Rebirth A rogue space team called U-FEA is in search for the Beacon of Hope for the future of humanity. They will have to use the blueprints of the Mobile Weapons before them as part of their arsenal to take down the Xen-Dominion.

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by LightningCount » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:41 am

Nikkolas wrote:I never realized the Epyon was supposed to only have its giant beam saber and no other weapon.

Apparently it was though and so some people dislike the final fight with Wing Zero where WZ is clearly dodging bullets.
LightningCount wrote: *RahXephon, a great anime series that's more in the vein of Evangelion than Gundam (and is often unfairly labeled as a straight-up EVA clone), has an episode in its latter half directed (or written?) by the 0080 guy. And let me tell you, he's still got it when it comes to hitting you in the gut with human tragedy.
Between this and The Big O, which would you recommend more? I'm in a robots mood and I'm almost done with Gundam.
You know, I was going to bring up that scene with Epyon. That strange little piece of animation does confuse me, despite how awesome it is. I looked online, and found one source that claims Epyon has head vulcans, but I can't see that on its design, and it's never shown on screen. Usually, though, most sources say it has only the beam saber, thus adhering to Treize's philosophies of combat. So, other than an animation error, or some other plot/design oversight in production, the only other possibility is a wild ricochet from the bullets fired just before by Wing Zero's shoulder gatlings. This is something, like certain visually inconsistent elements of armor tolerance and the Tallgeese's source of ammo, that drive some people up the walls. To me, it's not a deal breaker. I acknowledge it, and sometimes I'm bothered by it, sometimes not. But like I said, it's not a deal breaker for me.

As far as The Big-O and RahXephon, both are classic, top-tier anime as far as I'm concerned. Both are 26 episodes, so it's not a huge investment of viewing time either way. This is totally a call on taste. They have some similar themes, and share at least one writer.

The Big-O is more of film noir mystery with eclectic aesthetic elements of old-school Issac Asimov-type sci-fi, Batman, James Bond, and others; but it adds a mecha/giant robot twist to it all in a really mind-bending plot and controversial ending that's been debated over and over again. It aired on Toonami and Adult Swim back in the day. (Both made amazing promos for it). It has a bit of the flair of Cowboy Bebop, as well; and reinforcing this is Steve Blum as the lead, Roger Smith. It's an unconventional anime in that all the main characters are essentially adults.

RahXephon aired on G4/Tech TV, not Toonami or Adult Swim. Broadly speaking, it is something like a cross between Evangelion and Macross, but it's really its own thing. It's the brainchild of Yutaka Izubuchi, who was a mecha designer on Char's Counterattack. Like Big-O, its plot is also challenging. It was one of the shows that put the fledgling Studio Bones on the map. There is a compilation/reimagining movie version, but I don't recommend that. It should only be seen after the series, and it's not very good, despite a few good scenes showing the world's and its characters' pasts.

Neither of these are mecha shows in the way that Gundam is a mecha show. They're kind of hard to explain. One could say they're off the branch of stuff like Evangelion, but that would cheat them. Both are high-stakes mysteries at their core, and it's best to know as little as possible going in. However, both are fairly slow to develop in some respects. But I think that both do a great job of world and character development, to the point that you're experiencing it alongside the cast. While they have their fun and over-the-top moments, neither of these are shows you necessarily watch and expect to fully grasp in one viewing. And even after multiple viewings, you'll still be asking questions and debating elements/motivations.

While not necessarily tons, there are actually a good number of quality mecha-related anime series outside of Gundam.

As for Macross and Robotech...that is a HUGE can of worms. I came in with Robotech, and it was pretty close to an untouchable mecha anime experience for me until I found Gundam Wing. I now know of Robotech's controversial origins, but as one of my first anime experiences, it blew me away. More about that in a second. I have since seen some of SDF Macross and read much about its differences, and have seen pieces of its sequels/spin-offs, including all of Macross Plus and Macross II. To me, here's what it comes down to.

SDF Macross, taken by itself, is a super-influential anime classic (I think Zeta Gundam was created in part as a reaction to its popularity); however, its expanded universe doesn't seem quite so compelling. The semi-alternate universe Macross II is enjoyable but kind of middling; Macross Plus on the other hand, can stand alone as an anime classic by itself. It is basically a side-story like 08th MS Team or 0080, but for Macross, and it is absolutely incredible.

Back to Robotech. Robotech is a weird animal. As a whole, it hasn't aged without its share of issues, and yet, for me, I find, to a point, that its altered story has much greater mileage than where Macross has seemed to go post-SDF Macross. Robotech is almost like an alternate universe of Macross. The bad thing about Robotech is that there were too many cooks in the kitchen. Its ending sets up wholly original inter-sequels/sequels that at first were cancelled after just a few pilot episodes, and later reimagined to very lackluster effect. There were novels and comics to go along with the original 85-episode TV series that cleaned some elements up and wrapped up the full narrative; but in terms of animation, we're left with a lot of mess after the 85 episodes. The Robotech fandom is probably more conflicted than the Gundam fandom.

Anyway, singing is an element of both, which connects to larger, integral themes. I can't say it's my favorite element of it, but it works within the milieu. The idea of a "pop star" like Lacus in a mecha series did come from Macross, though.

Obviously, whether you watch SDF Macross or Robotech's Macross Saga (first arc), you're ultimately getting the same show filtered through different editors. So, if you see one, it sort of automatically ruins the freshness of the experience for the other, and probably colors your opinion about what it is you're watching. Basically, the core element of the war in both series have completely different meanings. It's such a strange thing. Obviously, I have a fondness for Robotech, but I also respect the source material to a large extent, and it has the benefit of standing alone as a self-contained series. I could not tell someone which to watch; but I would say that "Macross" should be seen in one of these forms eventually, and that Macross Plus should also be seen.

Macross or Robotech's Macross Saga are of a tone that's akin to the earlier UC Gundam series, but with more emphasis on relationships and more "out-there" sci-fi elements. I've heard of new people coming into both and loving them, despite certain elements of both not aging the greatest. It's hard to tell how one will react. I myself don't know how to rank them, but since my personal experience has been more with Robotech, I must say I still have a fondness for its core elements, despite its flaws. I think I'd probably say the same of SDF Macross if I went through the whole thing, though, since they share so much. The central elements shared between them are very compelling, and have been repeated many times by modern anime in one respect or another.

Ironically, it should be noted that, in some cases, later Macross works had elements that appeared in Robotech. I think it's coincidence, but it's interesting, nevertheless.

Yeah, it's a can of worms...and a matter of tastes and experiences.

...I don't really know if I've done a good job explaining any of this. But I tried. :?

Each of these shows noted has trailers of one sort or another, but they each have a fair number of spoilers for at least several episodes to say the least. So, see at your own risk:
Toonami's Robotech trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QLEK_Cg3hE
Macross English trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21q13aFoszY
Toonami Big-O Season 1 trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK_HTdn3NPE
RahXephon random preview trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGhegpuKIF4
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PowerdGNFlag
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:37 am

There was a fairly recent retcon attempt about Epyon's alleged vulcans, as discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=15944.

I might have more to say on the current topics of discussion (nicely "derailed" from the original), but I have to gather my thoughts a bit.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Quiddity » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:00 pm

Nikkolas wrote:
LightningCount wrote: *RahXephon, a great anime series that's more in the vein of Evangelion than Gundam (and is often unfairly labeled as a straight-up EVA clone), has an episode in its latter half directed (or written?) by the 0080 guy. And let me tell you, he's still got it when it comes to hitting you in the gut with human tragedy.

Between this and The Big O, which would you recommend more? I'm in a robots mood and I'm almost done with Gundam.
Both are extremely good in their own ways and both are very different from Gundam. In fact both are so good I have a hard time picking which one I'd recommend more. I think its just a matter of which one you should watch first rather than which one you watch at all. Both are giant robot style shows instead of the real robot type of shows that Gundam are. The war setting that is so prevalent in Gundam is more apparent in RahXephon, although even there its quite a bit different. I would argue that character design is rather so-so in RahXephon, but everything else design wise is fantastic. Really strong mecha design, with some of the more bizarre mecha designs you'll see out there. Character design aside the animation is really good. RahXephon's music is really strong as well and it ties a lot into the plot of the show. Ichiko Hashimoto did the music, can't think of anything else she's done off the top of my head, but its really high quality work. The ending theme for the show might be my favorite anime ending theme ever. She also voices one of the major characters and has one of the most haunting voices in anime history (really the only comparable I can think of is Saeko Shimazu who did Four Murasame in Zeta Gundam). I'd skip the lackluster english dub though.

The Big O is very heavily inspired by Batman the animated series and a large part of its style is what you would think Batman would be like if it was a mecha anime. That's a lot of its charm, but its overall plotline is also very interesting and mysterious. Make sure you remain as spoil free as possible. A really big difference with Big O versus Gundam is that a large portion of the show (at least a half of the show, particularly in the first season) is stand alone episodes. Which you would think would harm the show, but I would argue that they're the strongest part of the show. Design-wise the show is also very strong. A very unique style. The music is also really, really strong. I'd probably put just a tick below RahXephon. Unlike RahXephon, Big O has a high quality English dub.

A huge notable difference amongst the two versus Gundam and that I'd certainly want to make you aware of before going in is that unlike Gundam, where the mecha battles can take up a lot of time and can have a lot of strategy to them, they are largely after thoughts in both shows. In RahXephon a lot of the fights between the main mech (the RahXephon) and the enemy are over very quickly with the RahXephon demolishing them with ease. There are many episodes where there is no mecha battle at all. In Big O's case, I believe outside of 1 episode you get a mecha battle in every episode but there are several that are also over very quickly and come off as if they just wanted to fill the mecha battle quota.

Highly recommend both!
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Nikkolas » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:45 pm

I always heard RahXephon had a good Eng dub actually. I guess it's largely a YMMV thing and if it truly is in the style of Evangelion then the dub vs. sub fans are going to be pretty divided. If it's any indication, I thought NGE's dub was so-so with a few good performances. I certainly can't understand anyone who dislikes Tiffany Grant's Asuka. Asuka was like the best part of that show. Her and Kaji.

Although all this talk of mecha and English dubs just reminded me of another anime I've been intending to watch for years now just like I had been putting off Gundam.

Eureka Seven. Heard a lot of great things about both the show itself and its dub.



Finally starting on 00 Season 2. 10 episodes in.

1. Allelujah says that if Soma found out about how he destroyed the Super Soldier Labs, she'd hate him. ...doesn't she already know? I thought they talked about it in Season 1.

2. So Povertyland Princess is named Marina. I'll try to keep that in mind. But having seen Wing now, I gotta wonder if this Relena Expy will ever actually do anything of importance. We're already at Season 2 and she's in the exact same position as the start of Season 1. In fact, her country might be worse off than ever. All she does is wander around being useless and accomplishing nothing and making me wonder why she's even int his show.

3. So I already knew Graham was Mr. Bushido if it wasn't obvious enough. Still, I gotta wonder where he's gonna go from here. Is he just gonna chase Setsuna around all season because HONOR? Then again, his whole "act as I see fit" attitude is kinda irritating me to be honest.

4. Ah yes it's time to "Revive Revival." That's...that's something alright. Are we gonna get into "your name is Hope because you give us hope!" territory? Although in 00's case it might be less because of bad writing and just because sometimes languages just don't work well together. Or something.

5. Is Season 2 the "take a crap on Saji" season? I mean Jesus, didn't he have it hard enough in Season 1? Now he's mistaken as some sort of rebel by the not-Titans..i mean the A-LAWS...and then he accidentally get all the actual rebels and children killed.

I sure hope Soma wises up after this episode and realize the A-LAWS are kinda unambiguously evil. The Colonel knows it.

6. Also I gotta say this before I forget but Wang Lu Mei? I never really got a feel for her character in Season 1 beyond "not exactly a good person." I hope Season 2 fleshes her out a bit mor. Like, what is her actual motivation for her craziness?

7. Hey, my hopes for Soma were granted! Hooray. Her and the Colonel had a pretty nice relationship. It was definitely one of my favorite interactions in the first season and it was just as sweet this season. Now I just gotta wonder what will happen with his actual child, that A-LAW douche who seems to be in love with Louise or whatever.

8. Also have to repeat I'm not liking Mr. Bushido much. He's so...aggressive. I mean he was fixated on beating the Gundam in Season 1 but in a pretty cool way. Now he's just an ass about it.

9. Well that was one helluva plot dump at the start of episode 8. So Innovators are a new organization manipulating everything. I guess they won't be just forgotten about like the SEELE wannabes in season 1. I guess this really isn't just outta nowhere as there was clearly something inhuman about Tieria in the first season. Honestly, how much of the "they changed it all!!!!" stuff is true? Because Season 1 left a lot of room for other stuff to be done and explained.

10. Yesss, Patrick is back! Now Graham's a jerk, he's the Best Character. And Kati had the best reaction to his return as well. I feel like it's dumb calling her Kati because "Kati" makes me think of some girls I know who are...well, girls and not at all like the good colonel. But "Mannequin" is such a weird last name. I dunno what o call her. Maybe Kate.

11. Nice defiant speech there Tieria. I admire mouthing off to the main villain and all but...something is ruining the effect...

12. Setsuna sure has grown hasn't he. Trying to offer words of compassion to Louise and show her how deeply Saji still cares for her is definitely something old Robo-Setsuna never would have dreamed of.

13. Billy wants Graham to destroy CB? Knowing Sumeragi is part of it? Or is he hoping that she'll somehow live through it and with nowhere else to turn she'll return to him?

14. Nice space laser or whatever it is. Momento Mori huh? Gotta admit that's a pretty good name for your ultimate weapon to control people. But Hallelujah is back and I'm not sure I'm onboard with that. Also aren't the Innovators immortal superpeople with all the power and wealth in the world for some reason? Why do they need Wang Lu Mei's help with anything?

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by LightningCount » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:38 am

These discussions keep luring me back...
Nikkolas wrote:I always heard RahXephon had a good Eng dub actually. I guess it's largely a YMMV thing...Although all this talk of mecha and English dubs just reminded me of another anime I've been intending to watch for years now just like I had been putting off Gundam.

Eureka Seven. Heard a lot of great things about both the show itself and its dub.
I'll get to Gundam in a second, but yeah, I agree with a lot of what Quiddity said, except, I really liked RahXephon's dub a lot. There's only a few rough spots with some characters, but some of that is the VAs finding their voice/tone early on. And also, I thought RahXephon had really appealing character designs, pulling from the more "defined" anime-style design concepts of the late nineties from shows like Cowboy Bebop (Bones is made of former Sunrise staff, after all). I'd go so far as to say RahXephon has some of the most appealing character designs in a mecha-related show in the last decade or so.

And yes, the battles are more of a punctuation point usually, but they really do a surprisingly good job with less is more. All and all, I agree with Quiddity that both RahXephon and The Big-O should be seen, and I'd go so far as to say that they're better series than the one they're often compared to, Evangelion. With regard to Quiddity's comment about Big-O's abundance of stand-alone episodes early on...they're self-contained, but they still often connect to the larger plot in terms of clues or world/character development. It's very ingeniously done.

As for Eureka 7, I have seen the original series (but not the movie, and only one episode of its sequel series). The first time I saw Eureka 7, I found it really melodramatic, tiresome, paradoxically goofy, and scatterbrained with a handful of focused/powerful stretches, and I never finished the last 5 to 7 episodes. HOWEVER, having watched it through again recently, this time to the very end, I see that I totally missed the ball, and let my expectations and its quirks get in my way. It is an excellent series that manages to get through a fascinating tale with an incredible amount of disparate elements, but you need to have patience to let it all gel and you need to give it leeway to do some strange things and lean toward heavy melodrama or heavy comedy at times. I don't know if I like it as much as either The Big-O or RahXephon, but it is perhaps just as impressive in its own way, and is a great series. As much as I love RahXephon, Eureka 7 may be Bones' most signature and influential series. It manages to successfully/intelligently mix comedy and a coming-of-age tale with a story about war and mysterious phenomenon. (You know, it's sort of like Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force mixed with Fafner in some of its tone/concepts). I've only seen one episode of the sequel, Eureka 7 AO. It feels like it might be pretty good, but I've heard awful things about it. From the episode I watched, though, I was convinced I might have some interest in it, despite Eureka 7 seeming to be fine the way it ended.
Nikkolas wrote:Finally starting on 00 Season 2. 10 episodes in.

1. Allelujah says that if Soma found out about how he destroyed the Super Soldier Labs, she'd hate him. ...doesn't she already know? I thought they talked about it in Season 1.
I'm not clear on that Al/Soma question. Sorry.

But 10 episodes in. As I reply to your notes here, let me also put a few of my own quick, broad reactions to events thus far, going off of memory:

*Episode 1 is fantastic, no bones about it. They really did a great job establishing the new world after the time skip and mixing this new direction of AD meets UC. Setsuna even starts out with his best impression of a Wing pilot and also saying some great truths about what he has seen the world change into. Saji's appearance feels relevant and well-played here, and the concluding battle has a triumphant vibe to it.

*Episode 2 feels like we're suddenly hitting the fast-forward button, and we're pulling Lockon's brother out from his cameo early in Season 1, and Sumeragi has this awkward scene with leaving Billy. Then we have the Gundam 00's launch. I'm going to say that I'm not a big fan of the Gundam and enemy MS design in Season 2 compared to Season 1, and the new use of a digital blur effect during battle scenes throughout Season 2 cheats the animation more than it makes it look better, IMO.

(Speaking of Lockon's brother...I can only say so much right now, but I don't know that they consistently did an effective job of separating him from Lockon; as such, his presence can make you forget Lockon's sacrifice and impact (and Al-Saachez being back starting in Episode 6 doesn't help matters there). One does wonder how the dynamic of instead making Feldt a new Meister might have been, given the stated background of her parents in S1, and her relationship to Lockon 1.0 and Haro. Not to mention the time skip would have made it more realistic than suddenly picking up Lockon's bro and expecting him to be an ace).

*While all a little too fast and easy, Episode 3 is another strong episode with a clever rescue mission and some interesting tension between Soma and Al.

*Episode 4 isn't so bad, giving Marina some time to humanize Setsuna and presenting an interesting underwater confrontation, along with a bold/fun introduction for the borderline goofy sideshow of Mr. Bushido, and the promise of some new dynamics with Shirin and Katheron.

*Episodes 6-7 with Katheron just felt awkward and boring to me. They do have a few nice moments of development in terms of interactions, but by and large it all feels rushed, slapdash, or stale. And Al-Saachez's random return and breaking of the fourth wall does not help matters. I felt Al/Soma's reunion was not handled as well as similar scenes in 08th MS Team and SEED. The montage music and all that just felt like they needed to bring swift closure to these characters.

*Episode 8 is a really neat episode with some great dialogue, scenarios, and revelations, despite Tieria's confusing disguise.

*Episode 9 is not too bad. Despite his return feeling 99% redundant to me, Al-Saachez's battle keeps things interesting, and his Arche Gundam is one of the better designs this season.

*Episode 10's destruction of Suille bugged me, as while it may have fit thematically, it didn't do the show any favors in developing some depth in terms of the powers involved, and then the weirdness of the Twin Drives starts off some UC-style weirdness.
Nikkolas wrote:2. So Povertyland Princess is named Marina. I'll try to keep that in mind. But having seen Wing now, I gotta wonder if this Relena Expy will ever actually do anything of importance. We're already at Season 2 and she's in the exact same position as the start of Season 1. In fact, her country might be worse off than ever. All she does is wander around being useless and accomplishing nothing and making me wonder why she's even int his show.
From memory, I actually think Marina has her best scenes early on in Season 2. She's in the show to develop Setsuna and be his moral foil, I think, and also provide a civilian-type view. She may have other developments, but don't expect her to turn into Relena. I was disappointed with the direction they went with her character in Season 2. But then, no offense, but I think they cheated a lot of the characters for one reason or another.
Nikkolas wrote:3. So I already knew Graham was Mr. Bushido if it wasn't obvious enough. Still, I gotta wonder where he's gonna go from here. Is he just gonna chase Setsuna around all season because HONOR? Then again, his whole "act as I see fit" attitude is kinda irritating me to be honest.
Speaking of cheating characters... Graham is Mr. Bushido now. It's sort of amusing, but his one-note use in the plot after the character we saw in Season 1 is sad. I suppose the point was to show how Celestial Being twisted some people, and that Graham went to those extremes he was talking about in Season 1. He might be the least enjoyable masked character in the Gundam series that I've seen.
Nikkolas wrote:4. Ah yes it's time to "Revive Revival." That's...that's something alright. Are we gonna get into "your name is Hope because you give us hope!" territory? Although in 00's case it might be less because of bad writing and just because sometimes languages just don't work well together. Or something.
Those names were hard to get by. These days, I just decide to overlook them. However, the largely one-note Innovators aren't very compelling in the way they're presented. There was a lot of potential in the concept, though.
Nikkolas wrote:5. Is Season 2 the "take a crap on Saji" season? I mean Jesus, didn't he have it hard enough in Season 1? Now he's mistaken as some sort of rebel by the not-Titans..i mean the A-LAWS...and then he accidentally get all the actual rebels and children killed.
A-LAWS are sort of annoying, no? Does it surprise you how unambiguously evil the villains are in Season 2 compared to Season 1? That was jarring for me, but I suppose it should have been expected in some senses. As for Saji, while he fit in the first episode, and he has his moments, his tagging along after episode 1 seem more of a hindrance to the plot than a help. I get what the writers were trying to do, but I just don't feel that Saji and Louise work well in Season 2.
Nikkolas wrote:6. Also I gotta say this before I forget but Wang Lu Mei? I never really got a feel for her character in Season 1 beyond "not exactly a good person." I hope Season 2 fleshes her out a bit mor. Like, what is her actual motivation for her craziness?
You'll learn a tiny bit more, but let me say personally that the piecemeal handling of her character is another thing that didn't endear me to Season 2.
Nikkolas wrote:7. Hey, my hopes for Soma were granted! Hooray. Her and the Colonel had a pretty nice relationship. It was definitely one of my favorite interactions in the first season and it was just as sweet this season. Now I just gotta wonder what will happen with his actual child, that A-LAW douche who seems to be in love with Louise or whatever.
Soma and the colonel have some interesting interactions, especially in these earlier episodes, but Andre, his son, is someone I'm just plain annoyed by. I guess that's the point, but it's so heavy-handed, and there's already enough annoying characters within A-LAWS and the Innovators. It seemed to me like they emphasize Andre too much in the plot, too, when he's such a one-note character going out of his way to prove just one plot point/theme.
Nikkolas wrote:9. Well that was one helluva plot dump at the start of episode 8. So Innovators are a new organization manipulating everything. I guess they won't be just forgotten about like the SEELE wannabes in season 1. I guess this really isn't just outta nowhere as there was clearly something inhuman about Tieria in the first season. Honestly, how much of the "they changed it all!!!!" stuff is true? Because Season 1 left a lot of room for other stuff to be done and explained.
I don't know what you mean about "they changed it all." But this plot twist is interesting, and whether it's handled effectively or not going forward, it is part of the main thrust of Season 2. And for me, I was disappointed that the SEELE people (Observers), were written out off screen, when they were presented for half an episode in Season 1.
Nikkolas wrote:10. Yesss, Patrick is back! Now Graham's a jerk, he's the Best Character. And Kati had the best reaction to his return as well. I feel like it's dumb calling her Kati because "Kati" makes me think of some girls I know who are...well, girls and not at all like the good colonel. But "Mannequin" is such a weird last name. I dunno what o call her. Maybe Kate.
A comedic relief character is the best character? What does that say about your opinion of the others? Patrick is likeable enough, but he always seems so off-script with the plot/tone, that it throws me off, and his character's indestructible gimmick is sort of irksome. I thought this character could have evolved more over Season 1 and into Season 2.
Nikkolas wrote:11. Nice defiant speech there Tieria. I admire mouthing off to the main villain and all but...something is ruining the effect...
Tieria's transformation wouldn't be so weird if they just emphasized his already feminine features; instead, they went out of their way and made him actually look like a female. But the scene was still great in gravitas/cleverness.
Nikkolas wrote:12. Setsuna sure has grown hasn't he. Trying to offer words of compassion to Louise and show her how deeply Saji still cares for her is definitely something old Robo-Setsuna never would have dreamed of.
Setsuna does grow. His talk with Louise is a great moment. I just don't know if I like the entire presentation of it when all is said and done. But right now, it's fine. It's being done gradually and subtly. I think he even had some growth toward the end of Season 1.
Nikkolas wrote:13. Billy wants Graham to destroy CB? Knowing Sumeragi is part of it? Or is he hoping that she'll somehow live through it and with nowhere else to turn she'll return to him?
Billy's character arc kind of makes him as extreme as Mr. Bushido here. I think he's so jealous and hurt that he wants to punish Sumeragi to heal his broken heart. For some reason, I have very mixed feelings on Billy's presentation.
Nikkolas wrote:14. Nice space laser or whatever it is. Momento Mori huh? Gotta admit that's a pretty good name for your ultimate weapon to control people. But Hallelujah is back and I'm not sure I'm onboard with that. Also aren't the Innovators immortal superpeople with all the power and wealth in the world for some reason? Why do they need Wang Lu Mei's help with anything?
Momento Mori is a nice enough plot device at first. Anyway, I think Wang Lu Mei and Louise Hallevy are funding A-LAWS...but as you say, couldn't the Innovators get the money elsewhere? I don't know the answer. I will say that I am bothered by the largely one-dimensional presentation of the Innovators compared to their original purpose in Aeolia's Plan. And also, the presentation of Celestial Being is confusing. How do they still have such secrecy and resources after their costly defeat in Season 1? The way they get back up and running so quickly in Season 2 after the time skip, it makes the ending of Season 1 seem less consequential. Even if they have some kind of backup Veda, how can Ribbons, with the real Veda, not shut down all of their operations with his knowledge and force. Shouldn't he know most of CB's locations; and it really shows how ineffectual A-LAWS are that they couldn't figure out/stop any of CB's rebuilding operations prior to Season 2.

Oh, this is random, but why do all the characters have to wear matching, color-coded uniforms now, especially when they're supposed to be secret agents who would probably want to blend in and never wore such uniforms in Season 1. Maybe they feel they have nothing to lose now? I don't fully get it, and it seems like another attempt to make 00's universe more in line with a more traditional Gundam show. And connected to that, by and large, it feels like Katheron is on hand mostly to be a nod to Karaba of Zeta. It may be too early to say this, but I did not dig Katheron's usage in the plot.

In spite of all my gripes, I have this thought that Gundam 00, in spite of its flaws, was still probably one of the most interesting mecha series I have seen in a while in theory. But Season 2's execution left me feeling sort of bored/frustrated/conflicted.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Nikkolas » Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:02 am

I welcome your thoughts man. Feel free to comment on each episode too. Probably a lot of stuff I missed anyway.

What I was saying in my first point was that, back in Season 1, Allelujah destroyed the Superhuman Lab. I'm 99% positive Soma calls him out on this later. Yet he worries at one point ine of the S2 episodes that she'll find out what he's done...when she should already know.

Also what I meant by "they changed it all" is the most common criticism I've seen of Season 2 is that it is a totally different show from Season 1. The writers supposedly took a Gundam series that some people I've read described as being great precisely because of how UN-Gundam it is, and made it more "stereotypically Gundam" in Season 2.

As for Patrick being my favorite, I just meant he's the most likable. In terms of actual strength of the writing, I'm not sure who I'd say was the best character. Based just on Season 1, probably Allelujah or Soma or Setsuna. I think one of the strengths of 00 compared to SEED is that all the heroes were pretty cool. Tieria has probably undergone the best development, even disregarding Season 2, but everyone from the Meisters to the bridge crew were endearing. Lockon might not have had the best backstory for me but he was so....well, likable, that his death hit me really hard. I think his and Bernie's deaths rank as the saddest for me in any Gundam I've seen.

And yeah I haven't gotten much of an impression of how the new Lockon is different from his brother. There was a cool scene where Setsuna tells him that he's responsible in part for the death of his parents and sister and new Lockon just shrugged it off. That makes him pretty different from old Lockon I suppose. But other than that single scene he hasn't done much to make himself stand out.

And I agree that the Innovators aren't doing much for me. That was probably my biggest complaint about Season 1 too, that the villains didn't stand out. I did not like Alejandro, the Trinity siblings were just annoying and despicable and Saachez...well, he was cool. But not cool enough to hold the show up on his own. So unless the Innovators turn things up, it looks like my single biggest complaint about 00 will be its bad guys.

Also thanks for all the detailed info on the recs. I dunno what I'll check out first. I just checked on Amazon to see what's available and the Eureka Seven Blu-ray is coming out in a week or so. Maybe it's a sign.

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Sinquser » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:01 am

Momento Mori is a nice enough plot device at first. Anyway, I think Wang Lu Mei and Louise Hallevy are funding A-LAWS...but as you say, couldn't the Innovators get the money elsewhere?
They killed off the observers, which funds the organization, so they have to get money elsewhere.

EDIT: Getting money out of 'nothing' puts some strain on economy in some ways, according to side materials. CB (and maybe Innovators) use it, but they do not intend to use that as their main source.
And also, the presentation of Celestial Being is confusing. How do they still have such secrecy and resources after their costly defeat in Season 1? The way they get back up and running so quickly in Season 2 after the time skip, it makes the ending of Season 1 seem less consequential. Even if they have some kind of backup Veda, how can Ribbons, with the real Veda, not shut down all of their operations with his knowledge and force. Shouldn't he know most of CB's locations; and it really shows how ineffectual A-LAWS are that they couldn't figure out/stop any of CB's rebuilding operations prior to Season 2.
Wang Liu Mei funds Celestial Being. Add that Cb has many resource satellites, they still have few raw materials. Also, anything connected to Gundam Meisters were locked by Veda, stretching to their teams. Not all info in Veda is accessible to Ribbons, just as Regene harps on every episode.

EDIT 2:
Nikkolas wrote:2. So Povertyland Princess is named Marina. I'll try to keep that in mind. But having seen Wing now, I gotta wonder if this Relena Expy will ever actually do anything of importance. We're already at Season 2 and she's in the exact same position as the start of Season 1. In fact, her country might be worse off than ever. All she does is wander around being useless and accomplishing nothing and making me wonder why she's even int his show.
One thing to consider is that in contrast to Relena, Marina has nothing. Relena has everything in her disposal, all she needed to do is to do her thing, and people would listen. Marina is on the way bottom level, it's not even funny. Setsuna and Shirin are the only ones that she could rely on, but they are busy fighting their own battles.
4. Ah yes it's time to "Revive Revival." That's...that's something alright. Are we gonna get into "your name is Hope because you give us hope!" territory? Although in 00's case it might be less because of bad writing and just because sometimes languages just don't work well together. Or something.
Ribbons has some obsession with Rebirth and bringing forth new world.
14. Nice space laser or whatever it is. Momento Mori huh? Gotta admit that's a pretty good name for your ultimate weapon to control people.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by HellCat » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:49 pm

The Innovator names are explained in the novels as intentionally based on positive terms in the English language. Wonky but workable until you meet 'Bring Stabity' with his close quarters stabby MS.

Regarding Ribbons taking out CB with his resources and power- I'm pretty sure by this point he's said he doesn't want that. He probably could do it if he wanted to but it's him stealing another of Corner's ideas. Leave the crazy Gundams attacking the likes of prisons and armed forces and you create a visible reason for the population to back the military growth that you want.

As for the Observers- novels and such explain they were all killed under Ribbons' order offscreen. Yeah. Not really one of the show's best ideas to never explain that on screen.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by LightningCount » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:42 pm

Nikkolas wrote:What I was saying in my first point was that, back in Season 1, Allelujah destroyed the Superhuman Lab. I'm 99% positive Soma calls him out on this later. Yet he worries at one point ine of the S2 episodes that she'll find out what he's done...when she should already know.
What you're saying does sound like it might be right. I just don't personally know off-hand.

(And to your other comment, you're welcome about the recs. Eureka 7 sometimes strikes me as having been the next or new-age Macross in terms of the anime pantheon. I'm not sure how to put that into words, it's just a feeling. And if you eventually end up liking RahXephon, I would also recommend the Fafner mecha series down the line, which, broadly, is sort of like Gundam SEED meets RahXephon).
Nikkolas wrote:Also what I meant by "they changed it all" is the most common criticism I've seen of Season 2 is that it is a totally different show from Season 1. The writers supposedly took a Gundam series that some people I've read described as being great precisely because of how UN-Gundam it is, and made it more "stereotypically Gundam" in Season 2.
Honestly, I don't know the details on this, I can only say what I feel. While the Innovator concept and the move to one big government were always on the table, it's not clear about how much the details and structure of the narrative were changed because of some backlash about the pacing and focus of Season 1. To me, looking more carefully, it makes sense that it changed from a gray area series to a black and white series, but I would have liked a better balance there in the transition that didn't end up pulling from so many UC elements. The sequel/finale movie, A Wakening of the Trailblazer, while not perfect, helped me to understand why Season 2 went the way it did in some regards, but despite having such a limited run time to hamper it, the Movie seemed more carefully thought out. Ideally, I think sometimes I may have liked both Season 1 and Season 2 to be 49 episodes, and put the movie's events into the latter part of Season 2 perhaps. That would allow the characters and world to breathe a little easier. I just feel the way Season 2 went along there was a mixture of meandering and rushing toward a conclusion to make way for the Movie's plotline that sacrificed a lot of the intricacies of 00's world and characters. But maybe that's just me.
Nikkolas wrote:And yeah I haven't gotten much of an impression of how the new Lockon is different from his brother. There was a cool scene where Setsuna tells him that he's responsible in part for the death of his parents and sister and new Lockon just shrugged it off. That makes him pretty different from old Lockon I suppose. But other than that single scene he hasn't done much to make himself stand out.
Yeah, there are a few telling scenes like that, or when he essentially is toying with Feldt's emotions early on...but a lot of those things seem dropped or contradicted as time goes on. The biggest development they bring to this character to set him apart later sort of comes out of left field in terms of how it's handled, but I won't spoil that. And also, his Katheron connections seem more for the convenience of the plot than for any real sense of tension/complexity.
Nikkolas wrote:And I agree that the Innovators aren't doing much for me. That was probably my biggest complaint about Season 1 too, that the villains didn't stand out. I did not like Alejandro, the Trinity siblings were just annoying and despicable and Saachez...well, he was cool. But not cool enough to hold the show up on his own. So unless the Innovators turn things up, it looks like my single biggest complaint about 00 will be its bad guys.
I must admit that I was amused by Alejandro in Season 1. He worked in an archetypal way, and had the stage presence that Ribbons lacks. But what made Season 1 work in terms of villains is that at any moment, Graham, Sergei, Soma, or Patrick could be villains of a sympathetic nature, even if they were just trying to defend against the Gundams. And that feeling doesn't extend well into Season 2, IMO. I was looking for more callbacks to the multipolar world of Season 1, too, and we only get a few brief moments of that with elements that are quickly swept aside, such as the Kingdom of Suille. Without saying too much, there will be plot elements later on that hint how these multi-powers in a post-Season 1 world could have been interesting, but there's not enough time as the season is structured to make them as effective as they might have been.
HellCat wrote:Regarding Ribbons taking out CB with his resources and power- I'm pretty sure by this point he's said he doesn't want that. He probably could do it if he wanted to but it's him stealing another of Corner's ideas. Leave the crazy Gundams attacking the likes of prisons and armed forces and you create a visible reason for the population to back the military growth that you want.

As for the Observers- novels and such explain they were all killed under Ribbons' order offscreen. Yeah. Not really one of the show's best ideas to never explain that on screen.
Well, what you and Sinquser are saying makes some sense. I think I just would have liked some of these things, as you say, more explored and explained more explicitly in-series if things hinge on them. But maybe I was focusing on the wrong things. There seems to be a number of time jumps in Season 2, and it feels like we're missing a lot of interesting material. Meanwhile, we get a lot of this dragged on Saji-and-Louise conflict, which I guess is supposed to be the microcosm of the story, but I just find it mostly overplayed/uninteresting; and then a lot of CB going from Point A to B while one-off Innovators and crazed A-LAW extremists chase them, until there are some rather miraculous developments that push us to a finale. It is not without a few interesting interludes, and I guess it gets the job done, but it didn't consistently engage me, personally. I like some of the macro concepts, but the execution of the character development and plot in Season 2 didn't compel me in a consistent manner. I feel like a lot of characters and organizations were added that didn't go anywhere worth the time given to them, and that several Season 1 characters became lost in the mix as afterthoughts. (While I may be just bellyaching, the close-to-irrelevant, in-and-out stretching of Mr. Bushido in the background for the whole series, and giving him a mask for the sake of Gundam tropes, was a poster child example of how not-quite-right Season 2 could be).

These are just impressions I had as I watched, though. Someday I may be able to accept everything that happened in Season 2 as just part of the overall narrative; but even then, logical as it may be in-story or not, I don't know that I would find myself enjoying it all. But who knows. Season 1 grew on me a great deal, and like I said, I've almost completely changed my mind on other series like Eureka 7 over the years.

I will say this, though. As an aside, with Season 2 and its plot developments, I think that Gundam 00 and Gundam Wing lose all similarities in themes/tones that may have been there beforehand, and thus calling it an improved Gundam Wing, or Wing 2.0, doesn't make any sense. The medium by which to establish peace becomes much more in line with a Universal Century tale, and the plot lines up closer with things like
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Fafner or Yukikaze.


I think that all the comparisons to Wing definitely affected my expectations. I think it really took the Movie to make me get Gundam 00 in an overall sense, as Season 1 focuses so much on politics/current events.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by HellCat » Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:46 pm

I didn't like Mr Bushido at the time but when all was said and done and looking at Kuroda's other Gundam scripts, it's clear he personally shares the criticism that mask men appear in Gundam stories now just because and without giving too much away, if you pay attention it's clear Bushido is a case of how a military unit would act if they really had someone like that in their ranks.

Season 2 isn't perfect but I'm going to be blunt in that I don't think you're being fair by constantly comparing it to Wing yourself. I'll admit I could quite easily do this myself and say I personally feel alot of the ideas that feel half baked in Wing come over alot stronger here, especially the idea of an armed revolution being hijacked by the forces the protagonists were fighting against. If nothing else, as I've said before, I just find Wing really bland and showy while I feel 00 pushed Gundam into a necessary next direction. The theme of 'understanding' for me really works in 00's case because it was there from the start, it wasn't suddenly forced in (and I say that with full respect that some things like 'This isn't fighting/killing, it's for the sake of saving lives!' is poorly done hogwash. "We're gonna make a world without killing!...rrrrrrrrright after we kill these guys here")
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by LightningCount » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:40 pm

HellCat wrote:Season 2 isn't perfect but I'm going to be blunt in that I don't think you're being fair by constantly comparing it to Wing yourself. I'll admit I could quite easily do this myself and say I personally feel alot of the ideas that feel half baked in Wing come over alot stronger here, especially the idea of an armed revolution being hijacked by the forces the protagonists were fighting against. If nothing else, as I've said before, I just find Wing really bland and showy while I feel 00 pushed Gundam into a necessary next direction. The theme of 'understanding' for me really works in 00's case because it was there from the start, it wasn't suddenly forced in (and I say that with full respect that some things like 'This isn't fighting/killing, it's for the sake of saving lives!' is poorly done hogwash. "We're gonna make a world without killing!...rrrrrrrrright after we kill these guys here")
I was fair above by saying that I made the mistake of comparing it to Wing; but part of that was because of what people were saying about the series. Honestly, while the theme of "understanding" is all right, the way it's finally brought about through
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GN magic and Setsuna crying out about how we "have to change!" was too sudden, supernatural, and heavy-handed for me given the gravity of where the series started. Nevertheless, I liked the GN magic in terms of how it works for the Movie's "dialogues," so it doesn't leave as bad a taste in my mouth as it otherwise would have.
But keep in mind, in spite of all this, Gundam 00 is probably the most enthusiastic I've gotten about Gundam in a long time. Unicorn didn't get me as excited (especially post-episode 1), and neither has the bits I've seen of AGE and Build Fighters. (And Reconquista in G and Origin don't have me all that hyped, either). As far as bland and showy and all that, I think the degrees of that depends on perspective and tastes, and I'll leave it there. Nikkolas will have some new things to say, I'm sure, so don't mind me.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Quiddity » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:58 pm

Nikkolas wrote:I always heard RahXephon had a good Eng dub actually. I guess it's largely a YMMV thing and if it truly is in the style of Evangelion then the dub vs. sub fans are going to be pretty divided. If it's any indication, I thought NGE's dub was so-so with a few good performances. I certainly can't understand anyone who dislikes Tiffany Grant's Asuka. Asuka was like the best part of that show. Her and Kaji.

Although all this talk of mecha and English dubs just reminded me of another anime I've been intending to watch for years now just like I had been putting off Gundam.

Eureka Seven. Heard a lot of great things about both the show itself and its dub.
I will admit that I'm not a fan of the ADV dubs at all. Could never get in with them. Started with, incidentally enough, Evangelion, but have seen plenty of other mecha anime released/dubbed by ADV including RahXephon, Gasaraki and Dunbine and never particularly liked them. And this is coming from someone who usually enjoys dubs a lot. I absolutely hated Asuka's voice in Eva. Although I'll also admit that I absolutely hate the Asuka character.

Eureka 7 is a fairly strong show. I just finished a rewatch of it within the last month or so. I would say that both RahXephon and Big O are superior to it. The biggest complaint I have with Eureka 7 is that its a 50 episode show that they could have completed in a much shorter time. I think you could have cut it down to 39 episodes without the show suffering tremendously. I'm not one who denounces character development over plot (after all I do enjoy a lot shows like Escaflowne and RahXephon where mecha battles are sacrificed quite often for increased character development), but I think it swung too far in that direction with Eureka 7. In any case, the design of the show is terrific, fabulous world building, fairly strong music and an excellent English dub. Aside from it dragging out too much it is a quality show that is worth seeing. Have not seen the movie or AO.
And yes, the battles are more of a punctuation point usually, but they really do a surprisingly good job with less is more. All and all, I agree with Quiddity that both RahXephon and The Big-O should be seen, and I'd go so far as to say that they're better series than the one they're often compared to, Evangelion. With regard to Quiddity's comment about Big-O's abundance of stand-alone episodes early on...they're self-contained, but they still often connect to the larger plot in terms of clues or world/character development. It's very ingeniously done.
I personally would say at its peak that Eva is better than RahXephon and Big O, but that isn't often. A huge portion of Eva is filler. I'd agree that if simply judging the shows as a whole from beginning to end in terms of level of quality they're both better. Eva wildly fluctuates from extremely frustrating episodes to absolute greatness.
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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Nikkolas » Thu Apr 17, 2014 2:35 pm

My thoughts up to Episode 20...

1. Space Magic was in full effect for drama's sake with Saji and Louise. I was waiting and waiting to see how they'd eventually find out they were "on opposite sides"

but Inever saw that one coming. Bleh.

2. So Setsuna was about to finish off Ali and then he randomly could hear singing so he stopped? I kinda wish that had happened in MSG or SEED. Char doesn't blow off Kycilia's head or the Archangel doesn't kill Azrael because singing out of nowhere. (I'm just drwing analogies to other evil, evil people who should be killed without hesitation)

3. So is Soma/Marie not going to be fighting ever again? I mean, I kinda get the point in an in-universe sort of way. She never had a choice in the matter and is a victim. She should be kept away from all the violence. But from the perspective of a viewer, it's disappointing.

4. OH NO1 Not Bring Stabity! ...yeah that name is hilarious, even by Gundam standards. Someone really screwed up their English there. His name doesn't fit in with any of the others.

5. I do approve of this coup d'etat though. Nobody in the Federation ever said "hold on a minute, these Titans are nuts. We should stop them." So the fact a group had enough sanity to do that in 00 is points to them. Seriously, this colonel guy is pretty cool. His name is...Pang Hercury? The 00 writers are just having a ball with these names aren't they?

6. Wow, way to go Andre. You already weren't likable and now you killed your very likable father because you're a dumbass. He's gonna go right down there with Nena Trinity in 00 Characters Who Burn For Eternity.

7. So Soma is back to fighting. If nothing else, Sergei's death did have a positive consequence.

8. Ya know what my biggest complaint about this second season is? Inconsequential characters. There's so many damned people running around and barely any of them matter. How many Innovators are there and only Ribbons and that Tieria lookalike chick have been given anything resembling a personality. Well I guess there's Anew but whatever. I know i might be contradicting myself here a bit but I really like the character of Klaus, the resistance leader. I like him in part because he's so inconsequential. He stands no chance but he keeps fighting. Contrast with Marina who continues to be useless but doesn't even try to be of help to anyone. Seriously, if the writers of 00 were trying to "criticize" the message iN Wing or whatever they're doing a poor job of it because there was literally an entire episode in Wing dedicated to Relena having to come to terms with the fact that a defense force is necessary, even for a pacifist nation. Refusing to have any arms at all or to fight back when the Evil Empire is right next door is just stupidity, not idealism.

9. Episode 20 - Yessss, Haro saves the frickin' day! I knew 00 had the best Haro(es) in any Gundam series. Well, of the ones I've seen. Anyway, Tiny Robot Ball > Innovator.

10. Well Lockon's and Anew's relationship has to be the most Sudden and then Abruptly Ended romance in Gundam history. Bleh.

This is kind of a random thought that isn't a criticism of 00 or anything but has there been an increase in "religious stuff" in more modern Gundams? Like, 00 has a lot of mentions of God and stuff and wasn't there like a church and cross in one of the Unicorn episodes? Treize talks about God a few times too. Like I said, not really a critique but an observation since I don't remember much talk about God or religion or any of that back in 0079, Zeta or CCA.

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Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by HellCat » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:19 pm

Per some sources Anew and Lyle were originally supposed to be competing spies, working for Ribbons and Katharon respectively. However, apparently sponsors complained there wasn't a tragic adult romance for housewife viewers and told them to instead turn their interactions into a redo of the Lockon and Tieria stuff from late season one.

But hey, I liked Anew :(
Gundam AGEs Forum- Three destinies will form discussion.
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Nikkolas
Posts: 97
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:14 pm

Re: My Journey Through Mobile Suit Gundam

Post by Nikkolas » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:59 pm

I liked her well enough. It was just there and then it was gone. The romance i mean.

I guess if S2 is supposed to be more "Gundam-y" then Anew is the doomed Cyber Newtype equivalent ala Four or Stella. And they had her hook up with a side character instead of the MC because....uh, Setsuna only loves Gundam.

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