Japan's Favorite Gundam Series

[Nikkolas]

Judging by the polls I've managed to find it seems like a safe bet to say Japan's favorite Gundam series are 0079, Zeta and SEED. 00 had a brief stem at the top as all Gundam series do as they are airing (or so it seems) but I don't think I'm wrong in saying the holy trio is MSG, Z and SEED.

4th place seems to be inconsistent with 00, Wing and others rising and falling. What doesn't seem to ever be close to topping the charts are series like Gundam X and Turn A but the Gundam fans I have been rubbing elbows with since I started my little Gundam spree have been hyping both of these shows to death. (especially Turn A)

So is there any visible cause for this disparity? What's in SEED, Zeta and MSG that is lacking in these other two that makes them so unpopular, or at least less popular?

[Heaven Piercing Man]

my theory: MSG has the plot, Zeta has the badasses, SEED has the bishies, all three have the action

Does SEED include Destiny?

[ShadowCell]

As far as MSG and Zeta go...

The fact that so many Gundam shows borrow so heavily from MSG and Zeta probably has much to do with why they're so popular. Gundam's business model is basically to eventually point you back towards the original series, which is why most shows don't stray too far from the typical Gundam formula. The real money is to be made selling RX-78s and Zakus, so Sunrise and Bandai always want to point you back towards MSG.

But it's also got something to do with the way the shows have been released. MSG and Zeta were the first two in Japan, and they enjoy plenty of marketing and cultural awareness. Compare that to North America and Europe, where the first Gundam show with widespread appeal was Wing and the UC franchise never quite caught on.

[Nikkolas]

my theory: MSG has the plot, Zeta has the badasses, SEED has the bishies, all three have the action

Does SEED include Destiny?

nah, even Japan doesn't like Destiny that much. It still ranked higher than some others in the Top 20 Series poll from years ago but it didn't even break Top 10.

11. Victory
12. SEED Destiny
13. X
14. ZZ
15. 0080
16. F91
17. Turn A
18. MS Igglo
19. SD Gundam Sandokugen Brave Battle Warriors
20. Hathaways Flash

[monster]

nah, even Japan doesn't like Destiny that much. It still ranked higher than some others in the Top 20 Series poll from years ago but it didn't even break Top 10.

11. Victory
12. SEED Destiny
13. X
14. ZZ
15. 0080
16. F91
17. Turn A
18. MS Igglo
19. SD Gundam Sandokugen Brave Battle Warriors
20. Hathaways Flash

Well, I guess it depends on what is meant by Japan. I assume that this poll you're listing is gundam-centric, but I am also under the impression that a non-insignificant portion of the SEED/Destiny fanbase consists of casual mainstream audience. So maybe among gundam's less casual Japanese fans Destiny isn't among the top, but for the more mainstream fans, it may be among the top.

Anyway, going by what ShadowCell said, maybe SEED also got popular due to its similarity to MSG.

[Raikoh]

So maybe among gundam's less casual Japanese fans Destiny isn't among the top, but for the more mainstream fans, it may be among the top.

That's probably part of it. After all, hardcore Gundam fans in Japan have shown love for Turn A.

Short answer: I think Japanese are more conservative when it comes to what they enjoy in a franchise. When they change too much (like Turn A, Igloo, or X), Japanese fans might slightly turn their noses up.

Long Answer: I think it has something to do not necessarily with quality, but the audience's palate as well. Most people, especially in Japan, don't seem as willing to take things with vastly different feelings, tones, or designs. You can even tell this by taking a focused look at, say, Char Clones. My personal favorite is Harry Ord by far, but I think a lot of people prefer more "traditional" Char Clones like Zechs or Rau. This is why connoisseurs (some might say snobs) such as myself would prefer some of the more fringe series, like Turn A or War in the Pocket (or for me, I'd also put AGE episodes 16-28 [and only those episodes] up there). It's the same reason why series like Big O or Gurren Lagann weren't making many waves in Japan, but are almost universally loved in the United States: different cultures have, by their nature, different taste in media.

It's based a lot on what the audience prioritizes. How much importance do they put on story? When it comes to plot, how much are they willing to stray from traditional Gundam? How open-minded are they in terms of mechanical design, and what sort of mechanical design are they looking for? Do they want mecha that are gritty and realistic or more stylized? Do they want characters who are realistic or more idealized? How much combat do they want, would they like the "at least one fight per episode" style of the 80s or would they want fights to be less prevalent but more plot-important (like 0080)? What sort of message are they looking for, and do they want a more upbeat ending or a sadder one? These questions could go on forever, and based on what's popular it's clear as to what the answers are for most Japanese.

There also is the matter of pop culture exposure. People who aren't as big into the franchise probably would just list the first series that came to mind, which of course is going to be 0079, Zeta, or Seed, since those are what the Japanese public gets the most regular exposure to.

[LightningCount]

I'll mostly be reiterating what has been said, but it has to do with familiarity and history. MSG is considered the classic standard-bearer that started a lot of trends. Zeta was similar, except it did it in the 80s, reasserting Gundam as a franchise after challengers like Macross had threatened Gundam's significance/popularity. SEED was the rebirth of the Gundam franchise after it had flatlined from seemingly viewer fatigue and too many attempts at story ingenuity on top of one another by the latter phases of the G, Wing, X, and Turn-A alternate universe era. SEED is considered separate from those series by Japan, and because it borrows so blatantly from MSG, it gets nostalgia points while also winning points for presenting itself in a flashy way that would resonate with an entirely new generation of fans in the mainstream. (All that said, in retrospect, I wouldn't say it's a bad series overall).

I've seen very, very little of Turn-A, but from what I know, I think people in Japan were tired out on essentially standalone, far-out reconstructions of Gundam's lore. In a sense, while still Gundam at heart, the alternate universes of G through Turn-A could almost exist as their own distinct sci-fi anime series with new names. Gundam X, which I hold in high esteem (I'd LOVE it to be dubbed), is sort of a brother or cousin to Gundam Wing in several respects, but Gundam Wing was so popular that new fans weren't ready to move on, and old fans were just tired of seeing new Gundam after new Gundam, especially ones that weren't UC-related. Plus, Gundam X has some methodical pacing in the early going, which might turn some people off who aren't into world-building and character development. It got so bad that Gundam X was moved to a timeslot where it wouldn't be seen much, and then it got 10 episodes cut from production. It was still completed in a shorter form, but every fan of Gundam X has to imagine what could have been with the extra 10 episodes. Meanwhile, because it lost 10 episodes and was moved to a low viewership time, not as many people saw it and it is commonly assumed that all of this happened because the series was awful. It seems like Japan was afraid to release it with a dub overseas because of this perception, and even now you rarely if ever hear it mentioned for a potential release in any form overseas. (Ironically, it has been said around here that had Gundam X ran directly after Gundam Wing overseas, Gundam's long-term popularity overseas might have turned out completely differently. Instead, North America got MSG after Gundam Wing, which, despite some surface similarities, is a completely different vibe overall).

Things like Gundam 0080 might be too old and obscure as video-only releases to have gained any popularity from anyone but the most diligent of Gundam viewers.

As an aside, from my experience, what generally separates the alternate universes of G, Wing, X, and Turn-A is a bit more overt political maneuvering, the heavy use of characters in a variety of situations outside of their mobile suits, the treatment of the mobile suits as characters themselves, and the dynamic variety of non-military characters that help drive the story.

But Gundam is sort of founded on the idea of roughly two formal military sides going at it with a happenstance pilot with abnormal powers caught in the middle, so these alternate universes bother some people. Gundam SEED was a return to form compromise. I would argue that many of the side-story OVAs lean more toward the tone of the 90's alternate universes, especially 08th MS Team. But I digress.

I can't wait to hear your views of Wing and 00 from the other thread.

[Nikkolas]

So Wing was a pretty decent success over in Japan too? Wing and its fans tend to get a pretty bad reputation among "real Gundam fans" I've met online. I used to only ran into SEED haters of the highest order but as time goes on, and I visit multiple forums, I run into people who think Wing was garbage and only succeeded because "it was the first Gundam with real exposure in North America." Only it seems like it was easily the most successful of the 90s Gundams in Japan.

I am really excited to get to 00 and Wing though. I think some of the best episodes of SEED were the stuff witH Desert Dawn, and my favorite episode of 08th MS Team was "Duty and Ideals." Stuff to do with resistance fighters and guerrillas ya know instead of two military powers going to war with our heroes as the pawn of one of them.

I've heard 00 described as "a fully realized Wing" by some people, even people who liked Wing. I can't say how accurate that is or not but I guess I'll see. I'll be starting 00 today or tomorrow and then my Wing DVDs will be arriving in a couple weeks. Maybe I can jot down my thoughts on them in a separate thread.

[balofo]

Here are the character rankings for the Dec. 2010 issue of Gundam Ace (or at least, what I can make out):

Source (http://album.blog.yam.com/show.php?a=mu ... 06778&p=90)

MALE RANKINGS:

1. Char Aznable
2. Kira Yamato
3. Amuro Ray
4. Setsuna F. Seiei
5. Lockon Stratos (which one?)
7. Heero Yuy
15. Duo Maxwell

FEMALE RANKINGS:

1. Lacus Clyne
2. Sayla Mass
3. Cima Garahau
6. Feldt Grace
7. Lunamaria Hawke
11. Sumeragi Lee Noriega
12. Lalah Sune
13. Relena Peacecraft
14. Cagalli Yula Attha

MECHA RANKINGS:

1. Strike Freedom
2. Zaku II
12. Wing Zero Custom

SERIES RANKING: (http://album.blog.yam.com/show.php?a=mu ... 06776&p=89)

1. Gundam
2. Zeta
3. 00
4. SEED
5. Char's Counterattack
6. Wing
7. Unicorn
8. G
9. Stardust Memory
10. 08 MS Team
11. V
12. SEED Destiny
13. X
14. ZZ
15. 0080
16. F91
17. Turn A
18. MS Igloo
19. SD Gundam: Brave Battle Warriors
20. Hathaway's Flash

[Nikkolas]

Somebody just linked me to this elsewhere
Gundam TV Ratings.

[Heaven Piercing Man]

Interesting that HF gets a spot there, it being a non-visual entry

[battletech]

Somebody just linked me to this elsewhere
Gundam TV Ratings.

Hum According to that G was the most watched AU not including SEED which revived Gundam ratings after V fall. Interesting. I guess it got the fighting fans of shows like Dragon Ball watching it.

So Wing was a pretty decent success over in Japan too? Wing and its fans tend to get a pretty bad reputation among "real Gundam fans" I've met online. I used to only ran into SEED haters of the highest order but as time goes on, and I visit multiple forums, I run into people who think Wing was garbage and only succeeded because "it was the first Gundam with real exposure in North America." Only it seems like it was easily the most successful of the 90s Gundams in Japan.

I am really excited to get to 00 and Wing though. I think some of the best episodes of SEED were the stuff witH Desert Dawn, and my favorite episode of 08th MS Team was "Duty and Ideals." Stuff to do with resistance fighters and guerrillas ya know instead of two military powers going to war with our heroes as the pawn of one of them.

I've heard 00 described as "a fully realized Wing" by some people, even people who liked Wing. I can't say how accurate that is or not but I guess I'll see. I'll be starting 00 today or tomorrow and then my Wing DVDs will be arriving in a couple weeks. Maybe I can jot down my thoughts on them in a separate thread.

Ah! I envy people like you. To be seeing these shows for the first time fresh and new. I had so much fun watching Gundam series for the first time.

[LightningCount]

So Wing was a pretty decent success over in Japan too? Wing and its fans tend to get a pretty bad reputation among "real Gundam fans" I've met online. I used to only ran into SEED haters of the highest order but as time goes on, and I visit multiple forums, I run into people who think Wing was garbage and only succeeded because "it was the first Gundam with real exposure in North America." Only it seems like it was easily the most successful of the 90s Gundams in Japan.

I am really excited to get to 00 and Wing though. I think some of the best episodes of SEED were the stuff witH Desert Dawn, and my favorite episode of 08th MS Team was "Duty and Ideals." Stuff to do with resistance fighters and guerrillas ya know instead of two military powers going to war with our heroes as the pawn of one of them.

I've heard 00 described as "a fully realized Wing" by some people, even people who liked Wing. I can't say how accurate that is or not but I guess I'll see. I'll be starting 00 today or tomorrow and then my Wing DVDs will be arriving in a couple weeks. Maybe I can jot down my thoughts on them in a separate thread.

Yeah, as I understand it, as far as making an impact in pop culture, Gundam Wing was Gundam SEED before Gundam SEED in Japan. I mean, it got to the point where two characters in Capcom's Street Fighter III (Yun and Yang) appear to be based on Gundam Wing pilots Duo Maxwell and Trowa Barton. And it has the highest average viewership of the shows in that era on your list. While 0079 is classic, I have to say that the time between 0080 and X (maybe Turn-A, too, but I haven't really seen it yet), were my favorite Gundam era.

Gundam Wing is perhaps the ultimate guerrilla/resistance war in terms of the Gundam series, which is what made it so utterly different, even as it paid homage to certain elements of Gundams past. It also brought to the fore several concepts in plot that would influence both SEED and 00.

As for the hate Wing gets...there are several reasons, some understandable, some unjustified, and others debatable. I'd say the "hate" has lessened over the years, but you do still find it. In the end, decide for yourself. A lot of it depends on one's tastes and definition of what can and can't/should and shouldn't be in a Gundam series. For me, I'm not saying Wing doesn't have flaws, or that some Gundam series don't do one element or another better, but for me, unconventional as it may be, I find it the most "complete" Gundam story due to its mix of pure scope, characters, action, plot twists, and thought-provoking discussions.

Lastly, regarding Gundam 00 as a fully realized Gundam Wing. I can see why someone would say that, but I wouldn't put it that way. Here's the non-spoiler reason I believe that while both deserve credit, Wing is the more fleshed out and realized world/adventure. Gundam 00 tries to connect its scenarios and characters a little more blatantly with current events, and it streamlines its plot and action to focus on just a few concepts, doing less/covering less ground in the end with its cast of characters or questions of morality. Wing's scenarios, while still related to historical and current events, are more allegorical and have a more philosophical and/or poetic tone. Its plot goes splitting into many directions due to its desire to delve deeply into gray areas and explore its characters as distinct, dynamic individuals separate from a formal structure. As a result, 8 episodes of content in Wing can feel like almost 13 to 26 episodes of content in 00. Wing feels more lived-in than 00, which is quite a bit more subdued and sterile overall. It will all depend on your tastes of which one resonates more with you. They both are enjoyable and are full of moments that stand out in the totality of the Gundam franchise. One disappointment of both series is that due to intentional company design in the case of 00, and a tight/stressed production schedule with Wing, some of the important background elements about the world and characters are relegated to supplementary manga. It doesn't ruin either, but having some of that info in the shows would have helped both in some of their more curious moments.

No pressure, but I'll be interested to hear those thoughts of yours, especially since you're going to go from 00 back to Wing in reverse. I think that will be fun and totally fascinating. I wonder what the effect of that might be, given that they share certain plot points and scene concepts. And like I said, since you already saw SEED, you'll notice some plot points in SEED that were inspired by Wing.

I'm excited for you! It's too bad about X not having a dub yet, because if you like Wing and 00, Gundam X is definitely in the guerrilla battles family of Gundam.

[tHeWasTeDYouTh]

Somebody just linked me to this elsewhere
Gundam TV Ratings.

Hum According to that G was the most watched AU not including SEED which revived Gundam ratings after V fall. Interesting. I guess it got the fighting fans of shows like Dragon Ball watching it.

So Wing was a pretty decent success over in Japan too? Wing and its fans tend to get a pretty bad reputation among "real Gundam fans" I've met online. I used to only ran into SEED haters of the highest order but as time goes on, and I visit multiple forums, I run into people who think Wing was garbage and only succeeded because "it was the first Gundam with real exposure in North America." Only it seems like it was easily the most successful of the 90s Gundams in Japan.

I am really excited to get to 00 and Wing though. I think some of the best episodes of SEED were the stuff witH Desert Dawn, and my favorite episode of 08th MS Team was "Duty and Ideals." Stuff to do with resistance fighters and guerrillas ya know instead of two military powers going to war with our heroes as the pawn of one of them.

I've heard 00 described as "a fully realized Wing" by some people, even people who liked Wing. I can't say how accurate that is or not but I guess I'll see. I'll be starting 00 today or tomorrow and then my Wing DVDs will be arriving in a couple weeks. Maybe I can jot down my thoughts on them in a separate thread.

Ah! I envy people like you. To be seeing these shows for the first time fresh and new. I had so much fun watching Gundam series for the first time.

I remember after watching gundam wing in the late 90s, I went to Babbages and saw a Guncannon toy and I could not understand what the hell that was. "it says gundam in the box but this isn't Gundam Wing" and after that I found out about UC and all the AU. This is in the early 2000s so it was very hard to get any info

gundam fans love Lacus in Japan, lol will never understand

[Darkerangel]

gundam fans love Lacus in Japan, lol will never understand

She is their Miley Cyrus. Popular to all while you will never understand why.


jk =P

[Zeonista]

I am never a fan of these fave lists, since they are subject to sudden change. However, some people just have to know, and so Gundam ACE keeps up the polls. Over the past decade or so, original MS Gundam, Zeta, and SEED have dominated the polls, although 00 made it to the #3 slot a few times. MS Gundam & Zeta are the old franchise-setters that defined Gundam & a lot of other mecha anime, so they have many loyal fans, and receive much tribute from younger viewers. Zeta had faded a bit, but the movies brought it back up the ranks again. Actually given Japan's low birthrate, there are probably more UC fans than AU fans! So expect original Gundam to stay #1 in the Japanese polls until 2030 or so. Char is the true #1 character of Gundam, since he frequently appears in ACE polls as himself and Quattro-tai, with both identities often in the Top 10!

SEED was amazingly popular, the only AU in Japan to even get close to the first series in terms of popularity for characters & MS. They could have milked that cow for years, but Fukuda traded it for some magic beans instead. Kira & Lacus are pretty much Gundam royalty in the character polls; they've always been in the Top 10, and are usually in the Top 5. Only the four 00 boys gave Kira competition, and he is usually only beaten by Amuro, Char, and sometimes Camille. (Amuro & Char pass #1 male character back & forth.) Lacus-hime as a rule can only lose to Sayla Mass, who is the first love of many UC fans. (Sayla was referenced by name in Great Teacher Onizuka during the class trip to Okinawa, which was several years before Gundam name-dropping in anime became common. )

As a general trend, Tomino's series have yielded a lot of popular characters of both genders. The AU series tend to be less represented over time, with only a few main characters holding on to long-term popularity. This result shouldn't be too surprising in the Japanese fandom given the features mentioned above. However, the AU characters who do become popular tend to stick around some, especially heroines or emotionally-challenged bishie leads.

In mecha, the old RX-78-2 has a perpetual lock on the #1 position, with MS-06F Zaku II usually as #2 or #3. (That, kiddies, is why Zeon fans get much love from Sunrise & Bamco. We are faithful, and we vote. ) Nu Gundam & Zeta Gundam are also frequent top placers. Wing Zero, Freedom, Infinite Justice & Exia are frequent top placers for AU MS. The other mono-eye MS besides ol' Zaku to frequently make the lists is the MS-18E Kampfer, which makes it the most popular 1-episode MS of all time! I am expecting some GBF MS to enjoy a little popularity as well, although none of them will ever make the Top 5.

[AmuroNT1]

They could have milked that cow for years, but Fukuda traded it for some magic beans instead.

Yeah, but if you'll recall, the beans really DID work.

[Nikkolas]

Having seen Wing now, I do like that Heero almost always places in the Top 10 Males List. At least from what I've seen.

[HellCat]

Heero is number one.

(HC has received a severe beating for such a terrible joke).