The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

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The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:24 pm

New thread, yada yada yada.
AmuroNT1 wrote:Destiny_Gundam: I know that, what I dislike is how extreme tends to be, where we're supposed to accept that the girl who almost murders the guy on a regular basis is just doing it to hide the fact that she wants to bone him? Part of the reason I prefer Nyarko-San's romance is because the Tsundere character only reacts to stuff his love interest actually does on purpose, while the more traditional Tsundere jumps to conclusions and ignores all contrary evidence. If it gets to the point where I'm saying "I don't WANT to see these two jerks get together, let alone inflict their horrid spawn upon the world", your story has done something wrong.

Also, I'm seeing people call Meijin's victory in this episode an ass pull, specifically the idea that he recovered his lost Gatling either by intentionally heading back to where the weapon container landed or by accidentally stumbling upon it.

Mythgarr: I'm pretty sure the "trick" Nils used to beat the Tallgeese was simply a Plavsky Particle manipulation attack, like the "shockwave" attack Mao used in the beach episode or the Build Knuckle.
I was just grumbling that other writers don't do tsundere right.

Nyaruko presents another issue where Nyaruko is just too damn pushy and doesn't care about Mahiro's feelings at all.

Tatsuya's victory definitely wasn't an asspull. It's hardly unbelievable that he'd deliberately move the battle in that direction.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Xenosynth » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:37 pm

I dunno. I'd only qualify it as a real ass-pull if it was Deus Ex Machina, which here, this is not. The Kampfer Amazing had launched a few binders, and didn't have them all shot through. They could have easily landed, and while the map is large, Yuuki could have easily gotten his way back there I feel. For me it didn't feel unsatisfying or anything, and... I dunno.

This show makes me find myself in this weird middle ground. I have so much fun and love watching it, but I've also always been one to overanalyze and nitpick some other series. Whenever I watch it and go along for the ride, I've not had any moments where I've gone 'This shouldn't have happened!' because... I really don't know. Nothing so far in the anime has REALLY bugged me. I have moments where I watch something like Seed Destiny, or Zeta, or other shows like Star Trek, where things bug me, but then I have shows like this, or Attack on Titan, where the ride is fun enough along the way that my brain just ignores or glosses over the negatives I guess, just like while reading something if I am really into it, my brain corrects spelling errors and whatnot and I don't even notice them. I feel like a stupid fanboy now but honestly that's just how I feel ^^;

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:40 pm

Nothing wrong with that. Some shows are worth analyzing, others are just meant to be enjoyed on pure entertainment value. Build Fighters is definitely the latter.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Wingnut » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:49 pm

True an annoyingly high number get it wrong, but Reiji and Aila isn't one of them. I could argue the same to a degree for Chidori and Sagara, but that would be for another topic. I also don't see the so-called "ass pull" in this battle. Chekhov's (gatling) gun at best really, as in you should see it coming that we might be coming back to those weapons at some point.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Dark Duel » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:55 pm

Also, I'm seeing people call Meijin's victory in this episode an ass pull, specifically the idea that he recovered his lost Gatling either by intentionally heading back to where the weapon container landed or by accidentally stumbling upon it.
Absolutely, totally NOT an asspull. It's a risky gamble, but a perfectly logical move for a guy who KNOWS that he's got at least two weapons that he dropped somewhere in the neighborhood and the skill to drag his ass there before the other guy totally kills him.
Now what IS an asspull is the Kämpfer A randomly blocking the GM's beam with its head for no reason whatsoever. The grease thing manages to not quite cross the line into asspull by falling under Crazy Prepared.

Great episode, if only because it's always immensely gratifying to see an arrogant ass get what's coming to him. Or arrogant asses, in this case.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:06 am

Dark Duel wrote:Now what IS an asspull is the Kämpfer A randomly blocking the GM's beam with its head for no reason whatsoever.
But of course, they can claim that its horn is beam reflector (like that fin on Freeden II's bow), and it will be acceptable. Although it would be way more awesome if the horn is something like Alteisen's heat horn.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:16 am

True. But they didn't do that. It just sort of happened, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum went "WTF Mate?" for half a second, and then it is never mentioned again.
And yes, Alt Eisen's heat horn/Alt Eisen Riese's Plasma Horn = AWESOME. But that's off the subject.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by iCards » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:52 am

I haven't been commenting on this thread because I haven't had anything really to add about Build Fighters but now...

I will say I enjoyed this fight MUCH more than the Build Strike's last two fights. this one seemed more of a tactical brawl than something you would see in Gurren Lagann. To me it just seemed like the staff has just been spamming the RG System ever since its reveal, I know it is a shout out to stuff like Trans-am, NT-D, etc... To me it just seems like it took away from the build up the matchs have had. Which putting a Real Grade skeleton inside an HG kit for better performance sounds like a genuis idea. I however think it shouldn't be able to stand up to Mao's BFS.

After this match I HAD to get that rant off of me.

I loved how the call backs in this episode.

1. The field of is based on Garma's last battlefield.
2. The mini-Zeons planting bombs being a callback to the episode where a real Zeon squad tried the same thing.
3. The Kampfer A. getting a bit of redemtion by dishing out the same pain that took out the original. Too bad the brothers were using a GM instead of a Gundam, that would have been a FULL reversal.

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:25 am

Well hot damn, the hits keep coming! :D This was a great episode, with mad planning players in a tactical face-off with awesome classic UC MS variations. I am so getting a Kampfer Amazing & GM Sniper K9 now. Both of them are mighty machines; the Kampfer lived up to its title, and how can I not like a GM that uses little green Zeon army men? :lol: And yes, I shed manly Hero of Zeon tears at seeing the Kampfer Amazing inflict ironic victory on the GM. :mrgreen: I had major respect for both sides in terms of the encounter. The twins planned a battle that would remove the Kampfer's advantage of mobility, while Meijin remembered his foe's tricks, adapted well to changing circumstances, and most of all didn't give up when he was a couple of blocks where he dropped his binders.

Mao Strikeout: Somebody has to have dating fail in this show, as the main heroes and the Italian Stallion are cruising safe right now. :)
Big beam shotblock: That big antenna made a good beam splitter, eh? Lady Luck is no lady some days...or maybe the Spirit of Gunpla (TM) can physically manifest itself. :) But as Meijin said, his fated destiny was not arriving that day!
EXAM system: Well, my UC cup runneth over.
BF Gatling Amazing: Perspective shot, the same way Dirty Harry's .44 magnum looks big enough to drop an elephant in some shots. :D
Meatbun Shipping: "Aina" = :lol: Speaking of fated destinies, these two are it. I am now suspecting that Aila is from Reiji's world too; it would explain a lot!
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Jestersage » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:44 am

Did Sunrise wrote those Microblog comments, or was it taken from one of the Gundam/Anime forums? Some of them sounds VERY familiar.

Otherwise, good show. Had they not been cocky they would have won.

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Mythgarr » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:54 am

I am simply baffled that Kampfer A has a gatling gun in the Amazing binders. I don't remember building it in the kit. Just rifle with two barrels (one long one short) and two kukris. That's why I was surprised when The GM K9 is ripped apart with gatling rush.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by latenlazy » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:59 am

Xenosynth wrote:I dunno. I'd only qualify it as a real ass-pull if it was Deus Ex Machina, which here, this is not. The Kampfer Amazing had launched a few binders, and didn't have them all shot through. They could have easily landed, and while the map is large, Yuuki could have easily gotten his way back there I feel. For me it didn't feel unsatisfying or anything, and... I dunno.

This show makes me find myself in this weird middle ground. I have so much fun and love watching it, but I've also always been one to overanalyze and nitpick some other series. Whenever I watch it and go along for the ride, I've not had any moments where I've gone 'This shouldn't have happened!' because... I really don't know. Nothing so far in the anime has REALLY bugged me. I have moments where I watch something like Seed Destiny, or Zeta, or other shows like Star Trek, where things bug me, but then I have shows like this, or Attack on Titan, where the ride is fun enough along the way that my brain just ignores or glosses over the negatives I guess, just like while reading something if I am really into it, my brain corrects spelling errors and whatnot and I don't even notice them. I feel like a stupid fanboy now but honestly that's just how I feel ^^;
I think most instances where some fanbase cries asspull or deux ex machina the accusers are operating under the presumption that there MUST be an absolute right or wrong outcome, or some super obvious choices or move to make, which they claim would have been far more realistic, while completely ignoring the reality that anyone who has been caught in a moment of competition or execution has either come to realize upon reflection that there were other choices they could have made, or regretted making certain choices in exchange of others.

In other words, in the pursuit of "realism" some of these people have completely forgotten that in reality, there is no such thing as flawless perfect decision making. How many times has any one of us watched someone else make decisions and think "well darn, that wasn't the smart move", or have watched professionals in a competitive sport or contest do things which you just think "WHY? THE OTHER THING WOULD HAVE OBVIOUSLY WORKED BETTER" *TUGSHAIR*. That's what those fans are. They're worse than armchair quarterbacks. :D
Dark Duel wrote:True. But they didn't do that. It just sort of happened, Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum went "WTF Mate?" for half a second, and then it is never mentioned again.
And yes, Alt Eisen's heat horn/Alt Eisen Riese's Plasma Horn = AWESOME. But that's off the subject.
Build Fighters has just sort of let things happen without mentioning the exact mechanics before (Fenice's beam cap collapsing, Fenice wrapping its fist around beam cape, Star Build Strike punching Maohsaber, Star Build Strike crushing bits in the wake of its speed mode exhaust...). I think it's fair to say that we can just presume WHY that happened, and maybe get an answer later.

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Outlaw » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:52 am

Tardy to the party give me a sec to make some replies:
Chris wrote:You're feeling bad for the wrong person. Misaki didn't owe him a kiss, and he was being a total creeper and deserved to get slapped.
I dunno when I hear creeper I envision more of a smarmy, stalker-esque, hiding in the bushes vibe, I'd say he was more inappropriately amorous. I do agree that he had it coming though, there are probably happily married couples where that scene would have played out exactly the same. Of course I don't know why he was so bummed she did qualify her response with a "yet", and given his behavior I'd say that was quite generous of her.

Strike Zero wrote:I agree that the SeixChina shipping is cute but, as Kuruni alluded to earlier, it's not really all that interesting since there's no tension involved...
I'm the opposite way; I'm so sick of the will they/won't they trope that even something as muted and subdued as SeixChina is faaaar more enjoyable, personally.

Mythgarr wrote:I am simply baffled that Kampfer A has a gatling gun in the Amazing binders. I don't remember building it in the kit. Just rifle with two barrels (one long one short) and two kukris.
I may be wrong but I believe the gatling is probably in one of the weapon sets they released separately.



Cool episode, I wouldn't call notYuuki's win an a**pull but it was definitely a lucky break. The greased joints tactic seemed oddly prescient, when I saw it my gut instinct was that they had metal reinforced the joints which I think would have been a more believable course of action. Protag double date was fun and adowable (with an Earth "W"), it could have been a triple but Mao went for wool and came home shorn.

The moral of today's episode? Don't go rushing in, you'll just get shot down.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Compass » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:00 pm

When I saw that weapon binder fall, I knew immediately that it was going to come back into play. It was shown, along with the beam rifle, falling undamaged down into the ground.

There's no doubt in anybody's mind that this is a game where you absolutely have to win, so when you go all out, you HAVE TO go all out. Meijin definitely reached the top of his game and demonstrated why he is an impressive pilot.

This ending was like the Daigo vs Justin Street Fighter Evo video where it looks like Daigo is done and then he pulls a WAT out of nowhere and wins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_5BHmaSI4

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:41 pm

latenlazy wrote:Build Fighters has just sort of let things happen without mentioning the exact mechanics before (Fenice's beam cap collapsing, Fenice wrapping its fist around beam cape, Star Build Strike punching Maohsaber, Star Build Strike crushing bits in the wake of its speed mode exhaust...). I think it's fair to say that we can just presume WHY that happened, and maybe get an answer later.
I dunno, all of those are fairly intuitive, though -- it can basically be chalked up to beam mechanics. The Kampfer's blocking a beam shot with its face is a bit of a different thing, which never really gets an explanation despite being called out as unexpected via the brother's reaction to it. There were a couple other "wait, what?" things in this episode that did get explanations later -- like the Kampfer surviving Operation Time Stop (as explained by the greased joints), or how the Sniper K9 managed to plant their explosive traps so quickly (presumably they used their Zeon pilot figures, even though that wasn't made explicit). The Kampfer taking a beam to the noggin and shrugging it off is another of those "how is that even possible?" happenings, but unlike the others, we have no idea how it worked.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:35 pm

latenlazy wrote:
Xenosynth wrote:I dunno. I'd only qualify it as a real ass-pull if it was Deus Ex Machina, which here, this is not. The Kampfer Amazing had launched a few binders, and didn't have them all shot through. They could have easily landed, and while the map is large, Yuuki could have easily gotten his way back there I feel. For me it didn't feel unsatisfying or anything, and... I dunno.

This show makes me find myself in this weird middle ground. I have so much fun and love watching it, but I've also always been one to overanalyze and nitpick some other series. Whenever I watch it and go along for the ride, I've not had any moments where I've gone 'This shouldn't have happened!' because... I really don't know. Nothing so far in the anime has REALLY bugged me. I have moments where I watch something like Seed Destiny, or Zeta, or other shows like Star Trek, where things bug me, but then I have shows like this, or Attack on Titan, where the ride is fun enough along the way that my brain just ignores or glosses over the negatives I guess, just like while reading something if I am really into it, my brain corrects spelling errors and whatnot and I don't even notice them. I feel like a stupid fanboy now but honestly that's just how I feel ^^;
I think most instances where some fanbase cries asspull or deux ex machina the accusers are operating under the presumption that there MUST be an absolute right or wrong outcome, or some super obvious choices or move to make, which they claim would have been far more realistic, while completely ignoring the reality that anyone who has been caught in a moment of competition or execution has either come to realize upon reflection that there were other choices they could have made, or regretted making certain choices in exchange of others.

In other words, in the pursuit of "realism" some of these people have completely forgotten that in reality, there is no such thing as flawless perfect decision making. How many times has any one of us watched someone else make decisions and think "well darn, that wasn't the smart move", or have watched professionals in a competitive sport or contest do things which you just think "WHY? THE OTHER THING WOULD HAVE OBVIOUSLY WORKED BETTER" *TUGSHAIR*. That's what those fans are. They're worse than armchair quarterbacks. :D
You are absolutely right on the criticism there, as the audience in the stands during the tournament fights, we the viewers can only see what happens, and we don't know what went into the MS beforehand. We also don't see inside the fighters' heads either, unless the plot says we get to follow the discussion, or someone flaps his mouth about his awesomeness. So things that seem to come out of the blue have been planned for already, and are stratagems ready to be activated if certain favorable conditions are met. Some of those complaining fans ought to sit down with my niece for a few games of Yu-Gi-Oh and see what a competitive mindset with a full knowledge of one's capabilities and a will to win is really like. (I am gonna beat her one of these days, I swear to Zeon! :lol: )

And I do think you have just described what is going to happen to Nils in his match against Sei & Reiji. Nils is a clever guy, knows his stats, and can plot out what his opponent can and can not do. However, he can't plan for unknown variables or hidden features, and he certainly can't make allowances for a never-say-die opponent who in technological terms is his equal. Nils is going to end up with a shocked WTH expression when he gets screwed over by something he didn't allow for in his planning. Although I don't see Nils using terms like "asspull" to complain about his loss, though. :P

Outlaw: That's as good a moral as any for the episode.

Brave Fencer Kirby: Gundarium gamma armor, that's all! :D Actually, we will learn the secret to that ineffective shot in a couple of episodes when Meijin goes up against Sei & Reiji. I would not be surprised if the Kampfer does not have some sort of beam-reducing ability, since almost every MS that made it to the Sweet Sixteen had beam weapons as a primary ranged weapon system.

For the traps being planted, either the Hound set them up while the K9 distracted Meijin, or the GM did it while Meijin was randomly blasting sniper nests. Either choice is possible, since the brothers worked well in tandem.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by HellCat » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:36 pm

So in discussing the episode with a friend who doesn't watch the show every week, I realised Ral had a bit of a double standard.

Good- Sei using his knowledge of Gundam stories to copy the wire trick from CCA in order to use the Star Build Booster as a decoy to fire at and distract Fenice.

Bad- The brothers using their knowledge of Gundam stories to copy the bomb trick from MSG in order to use the K9 Booster as a decoy to fire at and distract Amazing.

I can see the point the show is making, but it's not like the brothers used poison gas or Bugs.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by AmuroNT1 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:03 pm

Honestly, I think a problem that's starting to rear its head in this series is that the handwave regarding Plavsky Particles is wearing thin. We were told from the very start that Plavsky Particles ONLY work with the specific brand of plastic used in Gunpla, but that gets shot down very quickly; the Zaku Amazing uses parts from a tank model, while the Build Strike has a metal barrel in its beam rifle, and yet those work perfectly fine.

The GM Sniper K9 just brings back some nagging questions that have been lying under the surface from the start. How on Earth did the 1/144 Zeon soldiers become animate? Did the Renatos have to create joints for them and craft 1/144-scale bombs? What actually goes into the wire traps we see Sei and the Renatos using? How do you implement a special system like Trans-Am or EXAM (or going further, things like the Biosensor, ZERO System, or Hyper Mode) in a model kit? For that matter, how do you even build specific weapons? If you want to make a shell-firing gun, do you have to sculpt the shells into the magazine? Do the particles just magically "know" when you want to make a beam rifle?

I get the feeling that the explanation we're going to get is "PPSE lied, the particles will work with more than just Gunpla", but I do worry that they're also going to end up using the eight words Western comic fans have come to dread: "It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

HellCat: I think the specific issue with "Operation Time Stop" was the use of 1/144 soldier figures, which in a way violates the spirit of Gunpla Battle.

Destiny_Gundam: I don't want to derail the topic by debating tsundere romcoms too much, but to me the difference is that Nyarko isn't being insensitive on purpose; as she herself said in the beach episode, it's just the only way she knows how to express herself. The main issue is simply that she and Mahiro have very different personalities and very different ideas on what kind of relationship they want. But there's no doubt in my mind that they ARE honestly in love with each other, and are just trying to work out the kinks (with wacky hijinks along the way). To me, that's much more enjoyable than the Ranma/Love Hina story model of "500 episodes of Girl being a psycho bitch and Guy being too proud or weak-willed to do anything about it, vague hint that they kinda care about each other once every 50 episodes, then a forced conclusion about ten years after the story ran out of gas".

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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by HellCat » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Oh I get what they're saying, but why is one case of 'knowledge of Gundam stories' better than another? Like I said, it's not like they'd smuggled a Requiem in, they used a technique which very nearly defeated the original Gundam and made it work for them.

It's sneaky but so is what Sei did in the Fenice battle. Plus their GM did actually get into close combat everytime.
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Re: The Official Gundam Build Fighters Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by kayone73 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:43 pm

iCards wrote:.
3. The Kampfer A. getting a bit of redemtion by dishing out the same pain that took out the original. Too bad the brothers were using a GM instead of a Gundam, that would have been a FULL reversal.
True, it would have been a full reversal but that gag would have been a bit too 'on the nose' if you know what I mean. I think it was cool enough how the circumstances got flipped.

And in response to all the folks asking the same question : 'how did the Kampher deflect a beam rifle shot to the face?' should just sit back, relax and keep watching the show. The fact that the Renatos called this out means it's an in-universe mystery as well. I have a feeling it will come into play in an upcoming match and be answered. I think most likely Sei noticed this as well and is already trying to figure it out and how to counter it.

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