Buddy Complex

[Compass]

The thing about time travel, though... is that a paradox might not have actually happened.

The de-aging thing is a really weird mechanic, and even weirder to be one to jump to in-universe.

I have serious doubts that Hina has ALWAYS been the young girl stuck in time. That means the entire loop has been happening indefinitely both ways, and that isn't logical.

What might be happening is the alternate realities setting, a la Eureka Seven AO's nuttiness or Bioshock Infinite's.

[Destiny_Gundam]

When it comes to time travel, you have to remember this.

[Raikoh]

No, time travel is not an adequate excuse to not have good writing. You can't say, "Time travel plot. We can have as many plot holes as we want, and we can make them as blatant as possible!" This is especially glaring since, up until the Hina thing, the time travel elements have been plausible and consistent. Even Bizon's fate can be ARGUABLE since, well, episode one didn't show him falling from TOO high up, and we don't know if A. He could/would get fast medical attention in the past and B. To what extent his body in the current timeline is screwed up.

But the only thing that making Hina de-age, gain amnesia, and be sent to the future adds is the "Geass twist." You know, the one that makes no sense, fits in the narrative about as well as a fork in a power outlet, comes out of nowhere, and is done for the express purpose of having a twist. We have a situation where so far time travel rules have been internally consistent. Let me count the rules, forgetting Hina's situation which breaks all of them. Based on the three examples of time travel in episode one (I'm using Aoba, Hina being sent back, and Bizon as a benchmark for the rules) I can assume there are so far two rules that can be assumed about time travel.

A. When traveling through time, a character will not be physically affected in any way (Aoba, Past!Hina, and Bizon all had proven this).
B. One I noticed: if a character is in a Valiancer cockpit, they will remain in the cockpit (Bizon was in his cockpit, original timeline Hina was, and Aoba was in the Fortuna's cockpit in episode one - which, you know, is actually the Luxon's! Or it could be the Bradyon's, but seeing the other two cases, I'll say it was Luxon).
> Additional theory to B: It's possible that if a Valiancer cockpit is being sent to a time where the cockpit is in a different Valiancer (the Fortuna and Neibiros being sent forward to a time when the cockpits were still in the Luxon and Bradyon), the time traveling Valiancer will be destroyed, leaving only the cockpit remaining.

Yet having Hina go to the future not only ignores both of these assumed rules (since, you know, the other three examples of time travel follow these specific rules perfectly), but also means that a person just appeared out of thin air. Say what you will about time travel being confusing, there's a fundamental law of the universe that would say you can't make a life out of nothing.

I just can't understand why any writer, any viewer, any director, or any producer would allow that plot point through. Because it's really bad.

[Zeonista]

When it comes to time travel, you have to remember this.

Expert testimony!

[wielder]

But the only thing that making Hina de-age, gain amnesia, and be sent to the future adds is the "Geass twist." You know, the one that makes no sense, fits in the narrative about as well as a fork in a power outlet, comes out of nowhere, and is done for the express purpose of having a twist.

Ironically enough, I would have to argue many of those twists did fit said narrative because of its inherently exaggerated nature and at least made some valid thematic sense, even if the specific details were unrealistic or insane. Which, all the obvious differences aside, might also happen here.

Right now, in the case of Buddy Complex's time travel mechanics and Hina's history we don't have all the information available yet. Enough to freely speculate, of course, but not to reach any final conclusions. It's still possible that the later details and explanations provided during the continuation might not be completely consistent from a faux scientific perspective, but they can still be helpful to get a general understanding of the show's workings and aims. It's not like the existence of troublesome areas means there's no real purpose behind them.

Even the much more frequent time travel shenanigans in, say, Steins;Gate weren't above some convenient coincidences and bending of the perceived rules, which could qualify as creating a few plot holes, but I think for most of the audience it was relatively easy to accept the positives and forgive or forget the negatives. Hopefully that will also be the case with Buddy Complex.

I just can't understand why any writer, any viewer, any director, or any producer would allow that plot point through. Because it's really bad.

Like I said before, they might have an explanation even if it might not be completely satisfactory. But more to the point, they might consider that their work has other priorities, such as character interactions and combat sequences, for better or for worse, rather than making sure the time travel works absolutely perfectly instead of being nonsense science at least in part.

[iCards]

This show has mixed up a BUNCH of stuff about time travel, which in and of itself is a weird mechanic for a mecha series I have only seen done twice in the genre E7AO and this.

Because of the ending there are now a lot of theories and stuff we can poke at with the time travel mechanic.

Hina's age regression: She actually is a war orphen. The reason Hina is young is because her time traveling self swaps out with her actual young self and the memories of both turn to muck. I think it is weird, but if there actually was an 8 year old body for her to inhabit I will cut them some slack.

Young and Old Bizon: Bizon in episode 1 died I am pretty sure of that. Bizon in episode 13 got thrown back to the past, and later comes out old in the Stinger. I don't know what "Old Bizon" did to gain his standing, but "Young Bizon's" family was obviously loaded. So, I am going to say Bizon pulled a Phillip J. Fry, becoming his own Gramps, all the while starting his climb up in the Zogillian government.

What is Aoba: Hina never went into the past. Plus, Aoba and Dio destoyed Bizon's Valincer. So, in theory, Bizon could never really find Aoba as easily as he did in episode 1. So what happened to Aoba in the past, and WHAT is the Aoba in the future since Hina never had the chance to bring him there.

The thing about time travel is that it is not a proven science, writers have different ways of using it. Stien's;Gate had the parallel line theory, E7: AO had the Quartz Gun, and Buddy Complex has two Coupling Mechs with two Outragously Abnormal Pilots and a Years worth of the fictional Nectorium Mineral. Admittidly Buddy Complex has to put more effort into it than the other shows. All Stien's; Gate needed was a Microwave and a Cell Phone.

[Soma Taozi]

Wait I am confused, why are there people upset with this show and calling the twist at the end 'poor' writing?

Aoba realized there was a time loop and stopped it, thus creating a new timeline (maybe?). I was expecting something terrible, but it wasn't. I can see fans wanting a 13 episode mecha series being upset about how the series is having a second season, but again, I cannot understand why anyone would be opposed to the idea...especially with more story to tell.

Buddy-Complex's world is interesting and I like a lot of the characters. Wasn't my favorite show this season mostly because it wasn't made for me...but I watched it because I liked the world building they have been doing and I am a sucker for time-travel. I want to see what happens next and to me, that is a sign of a good season final and a fairly good show. I don't watch all that many mecha anime anymore, but when a show not called GBF is being released and I watch all 13 episodes, personally I think they are doing something right.

[Compass]

Upon thinking about the episode, I noticed something that I did not fully capitalize on that would make this twist actually NOT a last-minute thought, but in fact a hidden hint at something entirely different.

Following is obviously speculation built on grounded observations, read at your own peril as your mind may explode.

Spoiler

The series has shown us two alternate timelines in plain sight.

When the split occurred, almost none of us cared, or even recognized it for what it was.

When Bradyon and Luxon are stolen, and Dio and Aoba connect.
Up UNTIL this point, there has only been a SINGLE timeline, one where Hina comes back in time and sends Aoba forward. We will call this Reality Zero, since there is no alternate reality.

There is a flash where one of the old-type valiancers appears to fall from the sky. This is Alternate Reality B. It is never established what this shot meant, which is quite odd considering it was intentionally put in. Note that in Alternate Reality B, the valiancer is sepia.

The timeline where it does not fall from the sky is Alternate Reality A. This is where Dio sees Aoba's memories.

For better or for worse, both Alternate Reality A and B reach the battle. Only one event following this would really have changed, and it would not have significantly affected the battle.

Very little of the following events leading up to battle aside from the meeting about Dio saying he believes Aoba would matter in the course of "We should attack Alaska Base." So both alternate realities eventually lead to the Battle of Alaska.

That being said, we're watching all of Reality A's events in full color, where Dio believes Aoba, this whole time, not realizing that in sepia world, Reality B's Dio still doesn't completely believe Aoba, but supports him anyways.

So a short summary of what we have observed/inferred.

In Reality A, Dio believes Aoba is from the past, knows Hina is from the past.
In Reality B, Dio and Aoba never reach the full coupling of memories effects, and still doubts Aoba.

Now comes the kicker. Whene see both Reality A and B play out during the singularity, and we interpret it as something Aoba has imagined.

In Reality B (sepia mode) we see that Dio stops Aoba from going after Hina. He has no reason to believe the events here will result in Hina being sent back in time (still thinks Aoba is crazy) and sees no reason to "break the loop" persay.

Hina goes back in time to Reality Zero and the series starts again.

In Reality A (color mode), we see that Dio helps Aoba to stop Hina and prevent the events leading up to the loop.

So in fact, there is no time paradox because there is an alternate reality supporting it. BAM. PRETZEL TWIST.

[iCards]

Upon thinking about the episode, I noticed something that I did not fully capitalize on that would make this twist actually NOT a last-minute thought, but in fact a hidden hint at something entirely different.

Following is obviously speculation built on grounded observations, read at your own peril as your mind may explode.

Spoiler

The series has shown us two alternate timelines in plain sight.

When the split occurred, almost none of us cared, or even recognized it for what it was.

When Bradyon and Luxon are stolen, and Dio and Aoba connect.
Up UNTIL this point, there has only been a SINGLE timeline, one where Hina comes back in time and sends Aoba forward. We will call this Reality Zero, since there is no alternate reality.

There is a flash where one of the old-type valiancers appears to fall from the sky. This is Alternate Reality B. It is never established what this shot meant, which is quite odd considering it was intentionally put in. Note that in Alternate Reality B, the valiancer is sepia.

The timeline where it does not fall from the sky is Alternate Reality A. This is where Dio sees Aoba's memories.

For better or for worse, both Alternate Reality A and B reach the battle. Only one event following this would really have changed, and it would not have significantly affected the battle.

Very little of the following events leading up to battle aside from the meeting about Dio saying he believes Aoba would matter in the course of "We should attack Alaska Base." So both alternate realities eventually lead to the Battle of Alaska.

That being said, we're watching all of Reality A's events in full color, where Dio believes Aoba, this whole time, not realizing that in sepia world, Reality B's Dio still doesn't completely believe Aoba, but supports him anyways.

So a short summary of what we have observed/inferred.

In Reality A, Dio believes Aoba is from the past, knows Hina is from the past.
In Reality B, Dio and Aoba never reach the full coupling of memories effects, and still doubts Aoba.

Now comes the kicker. Whene see both Reality A and B play out during the singularity, and we interpret it as something Aoba has imagined.

In Reality B (sepia mode) we see that Dio stops Aoba from going after Hina. He has no reason to believe the events here will result in Hina being sent back in time (still thinks Aoba is crazy) and sees no reason to "break the loop" persay.

Hina goes back in time to Reality Zero and the series starts again.

In Reality A (color mode), we see that Dio helps Aoba to stop Hina and prevent the events leading up to the loop.

So in fact, there is no time paradox because there is an alternate reality supporting it. BAM. PRETZEL TWIST.

I interpreted "sepia mode" as Aoba seeing Hina's memories like he did with Dio. Not him "imaganing" anything.

But I could see that Aoba is seeing an alternate "something" instead of the Future because he was clearly expecting Dio to stop him.

[Raikoh]

I interpreted "sepia mode" as Aoba seeing Hina's memories like he did with Dio. Not him "imaganing" anything.

But how would he get a dose of Hina's erased memories? I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but that'd be like getting a clear, full video off a hard drive after the file had been deleted.

[Compass]

Why would the upgraded suits cause the memory clash, though? It was stated that the original machines had no safeguards, hence why Dio and Aoba went memory-sharing. The new machines would hopefully be designed not to cause this type of mental trauma.

Also, still doesn't explain how Dio changed his decision just because of a single link, assuming that it was the singular timeline. There wouldn't have been a loop then.

Also, regarding hard drives, just like "Enhance." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCWYm7B_B4

[iCards]

I interpreted "sepia mode" as Aoba seeing Hina's memories like he did with Dio. Not him "imaganing" anything.

But how would he get a dose of Hina's erased memories? I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, but that'd be like getting a clear, full video off a hard drive after the file had been deleted.

That was just a theory since Aoba and Hina's Coupling was the strongest yet. When you can open a door in time who knows whatelse you can do. Plus he saw it all as door opened, so who is to say the Tunnel didn't set it off. It could have other timelines memories stored in it. Although that would be pushing it.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Spoiler

There is a flash where one of the old-type valiancers appears to fall from the sky. This is Alternate Reality B. It is never established what this shot meant, which is quite odd considering it was intentionally put in. Note that in Alternate Reality B, the valiancer is sepia.

I always found that scene odd, since up until that point all those 'flash forward' scenes had followed through. Your explanation makes sense.

[Compass]

Spoiler

There is a flash where one of the old-type valiancers appears to fall from the sky. This is Alternate Reality B. It is never established what this shot meant, which is quite odd considering it was intentionally put in. Note that in Alternate Reality B, the valiancer is sepia.

I always found that scene odd, since up until that point all those 'flash forward' scenes had followed through. Your explanation makes sense.

Yay I can rationalize my insanity

[Destiny_Gundam]

I was also thinking the same thing as you in regards to the paths spliting. If one travels back in time from different branches, they still end up back when the paths were one.

[Zeonista]

It's also important to remember is that the time travel episode is/was a side effect of the Coupling process, which relies on quantum physics to project probabilities of actioninto the future to enable the coordination. The Coupling process selects "best future" events from the probabilities and then temporarily loops them back to the pilots in order to get the effect we see on screen. The better the sync rate of the pilots, the more likely the possible event outcomes will favor them and make the Coupling successful. At least this is what I understood based on what Dr. Fermi said.

So in that case, past-event looping as a side effect of certain events might be more readily understood. Once per random # of forward-searching events, a temporal vortex appears and creates the possibility of a reverse-time event. Dio seems to have intuitively grasped that idea about the same time as Aoba, and they acted to selectively retrieve Hina & end the past-time loop that created the story as we know it in Season 1. Of course, that means they also selected the final reveal about Bizon, but that too was an unintended side effect of obtaining a specific desired effect.

I do have the feeling that the people behind the principle of Coupling still don't understand even half of what is going on, or what they can do to properly handle the portion they do know. Super-science is rather tricky when there is not enough development to raise the level of understanding & success to hand-wavium levels.

[Mythgarr]

Ah, Anime, sneakily deliver solid sci-fi concept with bishonens and "childish" presentation, since the 1970s
Granted, this show is labeled as super-robot anime, but the sci-fi concept could apply to a real-robot anime.
What? Since Zeta, Gundam has been veering into super-robot territory, with the "power from dead people" stuff.
You even have fairy dust in 00

[Raikoh]

We've now gotten some info about season 2, with a trailer (that is mainly just a clip show of stuff we've seen before).

I'm not sure what they mean when they say "two part." Either they messed up when typing "part two," or it'll be a fairly short finale. Either way it'll be fine, since like I've mentioned before, the story was basically wrapped up in the original series.

Is this the first time that Sunrise fit a series and its sequel in the same year?

[Mythgarr]

Oh yeah, more Buddy Complex!
If somehow a Majestic Prince sequel is announced for this year, I will say that 2014 IS THE BEST MECHA ANIME YEAR EVER!

GBF Sequel, Buddy Complex Sequel, and MAJESTIC PRINCE SEQUEL (still dreaming about it...)

[Amion]

Oh yeah, more Buddy Complex!
If somehow a Majestic Prince sequel is announced for this year, I will say that 2014 IS THE BEST MECHA ANIME YEAR EVER!

GBF Sequel, Buddy Complex Sequel, and MAJESTIC PRINCE SEQUEL (still dreaming about it...)

We all dream about it. But a MAJESTIC PRINCE SEQUEL!

Is what we really all want. And until we get it, 2014 will not compare to last year. Buddy Complex actually started in December if I recall, so it technically counts for '13, and last year gave us MJP, which is more than enough. Plus Build Fighters, and Valvrave's mecha if nothing else besides maybe L-Elf, and Gargantia, which is currently my favorite non-Gundam mecha series outside of MJP's glorious mecha porn.

No, this year has been great, but not last year's epicness. Besides, we also had Attack on Titan, which kinda sorta behaves like a mecha series, in an organic kinda way. Kind of. Relatively.