Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

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Darkerangel
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Darkerangel » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:27 am

This is where I wish there was a website out there that presented you with what episodes you "can" skip and what episodes you shouldn't miss.

Like Bleach, I was following it up until episode 70 and then I dipped out, came back to 152 and dipped out when I reached like 213 or something like that.

Dragon Ball Z I watched way back in the golden age of Toonami. Being the hipster I was back then, I knew of DBGT before hand too. My dad is OCD with that anime. To the point I've seen it so many times now, it's ridiculous.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Amion » Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:09 pm

Zeonista wrote:i have never been a big DBZ fan myself, and I lost track of One Piece about episode 144 (I think). I stayed with Bleach until the end of the anime, and I still pop into the manga from time to time. It's a boss shounen action story, although the bi-weekly issue page count really cramps its style. OTOH I am still chasing after Naruto Shippuden because I like many of the characters, plus Saint Seiya Omega, which is finally getting good again with the return of the original Bronze Saints. :)

Now the true shounen series running so far to my mind is Kenichi: History's Greatest Disciple, which is running strong, dishing up action and character development (sic) like no tomorrow. I am hoping & praying that we get a new TV anime for the Fall 2014 or Spring 2015 season.
Don't you mean fanservice development? :P

And One Piece's Alabasta arc was probably the golden point for the manga and anime especially.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Soma Taozi » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:49 pm

Amion wrote:
Zeonista wrote:i have never been a big DBZ fan myself, and I lost track of One Piece about episode 144 (I think). I stayed with Bleach until the end of the anime, and I still pop into the manga from time to time. It's a boss shounen action story, although the bi-weekly issue page count really cramps its style. OTOH I am still chasing after Naruto Shippuden because I like many of the characters, plus Saint Seiya Omega, which is finally getting good again with the return of the original Bronze Saints. :)

Now the true shounen series running so far to my mind is Kenichi: History's Greatest Disciple, which is running strong, dishing up action and character development (sic) like no tomorrow. I am hoping & praying that we get a new TV anime for the Fall 2014 or Spring 2015 season.
Don't you mean fanservice development? :P

And One Piece's Alabasta arc was probably the golden point for the manga and anime especially.
From what I have heard, Kenichi: History's Greatest Disciple has more fanservice then Fairy Tail...

As someone who just fell into being a One Piece fan during the last year or so... I personally feel that it has MANY shining moments and that it deserves a lot of the praise it gets. Obviously there are some problem with it, with an overly long story that shows no signs of slowing down, character designs that are just BIZARRE, and several story arcs that aren't all that interesting or enjoyable, yet it does something that a lot of manga and anime can learn from... PAYOFF.

One Piece knows how to build something up and pay it off...and although that can be frustrating due to it's weekly release schedule...it makes these pay-offs worth the it, especially when you consider the story as a whole.

I am only at chapter 600ish (so right around the timeskip), but as much as I liked the Alabasta arc. I have to say that it pales (at least in my opinion) to the Enies Lobby Arc (I want to live!), Sabaody Archipelago Arc (my favorite), and the Marineford arc (Ace...).

Furthermore, the fandom of One Piece has positively EXPLODED over some of the more recent events in the manga...so I am excited to see what that is all about.

I have wanted to say this for awhile but I feel that One Piece is one of the best manga's out there...I generally don't follow too many Shonens (the reason should be obvious), but One Piece is defiantly the most consistent and fun manga to read.

On a side note, I haven't read the manga, but I have been following Magi and the Labyrinth of Magic's anime and I think it is pretty good and has a lot of potential. Anyone have any opinions on it?
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Zeonista » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:35 pm

Soma Taozi wrote:From what I have heard, Kenichi: History's Greatest Disciple has more fanservice then Fairy Tail...
Only because Fairy Tail took a while to get started on the fanservice. Once started, it has not stopped, which is as things should be. :) The mangaka for Kenichi has a fine appreciation for the female form in many forms, and has happily given readers something to look forward to besides kick-ass marital arts action each chapter. ;) (For the record, female fans have many handsome & manly characters to admire too, if not served up to the same extent.)

One Piece knows how to build something up and pay it off...and although that can be frustrating due to it's weekly release schedule...it makes these pay-offs worth the it, especially when you consider the story as a whole.
Hush you, you'll give all the other shounen action fans expectations for their favorite serials. :D Fairy Tail has also neatly delivered on story arcs as well, with some slow but measurable character growth & depth over its run.

Balancing action & story has always been the bane of the shounen action creator, especially when dealing with a fanbase that has seen it all before, but wants new & bigger & better death-defying action! I'm not complaining too much about the current generation of manga & related anime though. Hokuto no Ken had to take the long road, and there were entire volumes where Kenshiro plowed through a stronghold of enemies, blood and body parts leaking through the panels, only to discover, like a shirtless pumped-up Link, that his true love was in another castle. (I would like to watch the anime again, but none of my local friends want to watch it with me, they are all turned off by the no-holds-barred violence, the pussies. :P)
Furthermore, the fandom of One Piece has positively EXPLODED over some of the more recent events in the manga...so I am excited to see what that is all about.
Speaking of fanservice, I thought the fandom had already exploded when Boa Hancock joined the good guys. :D
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by JacobYBM » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:00 pm

Darkerangel wrote: Dragon Ball Z I watched way back in the golden age of Toonami. Being the hipster I was back then, I knew of DBGT before hand too. My dad is OCD with that anime. To the point I've seen it so many times now, it's ridiculous.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Amion » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:20 pm

Soma Taozi wrote:


From what I have heard, Kenichi: History's Greatest Disciple has more fanservice then Fairy Tail...

As someone who just fell into being a One Piece fan during the last year or so... I personally feel that it has MANY shining moments and that it deserves a lot of the praise it gets. Obviously there are some problem with it, with an overly long story that shows no signs of slowing down, character designs that are just BIZARRE, and several story arcs that aren't all that interesting or enjoyable, yet it does something that a lot of manga and anime can learn from... PAYOFF.

One Piece knows how to build something up and pay it off...and although that can be frustrating due to it's weekly release schedule...it makes these pay-offs worth the it, especially when you consider the story as a whole.

I am only at chapter 600ish (so right around the timeskip), but as much as I liked the Alabasta arc. I have to say that it pales (at least in my opinion) to the Enies Lobby Arc (I want to live!), Sabaody Archipelago Arc (my favorite), and the Marineford arc (Ace...).

Furthermore, the fandom of One Piece has positively EXPLODED over some of the more recent events in the manga...so I am excited to see what that is all about.

I have wanted to say this for awhile but I feel that One Piece is one of the best manga's out there...I generally don't follow too many Shonens (the reason should be obvious), but One Piece is defiantly the most consistent and fun manga to read.

On a side note, I haven't read the manga, but I have been following Magi and the Labyrinth of Magic's anime and I think it is pretty good and has a lot of potential. Anyone have any opinions on it?
The anime for Magi has a very bad ending from what actually happens. As a matter of fact it ends in such a way to ruin the entire point of that arc. I highly suggest reading that arc, it's around chapter 89 or 90. And I also highly recommend the second season of Magi anime, and definitely the Magnoshutatt arc in general. The character development and emotional pressure make it my nomination for the best single arc in any shounen series I have ever read. It has everything, action, drama....if you like One Piece, you will LOVE Magnoshutat. Did I mention the violence at the end? Well it has that too. It makes Marineford blush. :mrgreen: And the ending has incredible emotional impact.

See Soma, I told you that One Piece seriously pays off. I prefer the manga though. The OST for the anime is simply amazing and still hasn't grown dull, yet the manga moves so much faster and that keeps things more gripping. :D

Oh my, just to talk about the latest arc of One Piece is...is indescribably awesome! Even if you HATE the fishguts out of Fishman Island *And I liked that arc*, it all becomes worth while in the latest one.

I did like Eines Lobby, but I admit to having watched the anime instead of reading it, and it drug on a bit too long, though the CP9 battles really got it going. Robin is still my favorite character out of the Straw Hats, barring Luffy...and Jinbe, if he counts.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Darkerangel » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:16 pm

JacobYBM wrote:
Darkerangel wrote: Dragon Ball Z I watched way back in the golden age of Toonami. Being the hipster I was back then, I knew of DBGT before hand too. My dad is OCD with that anime. To the point I've seen it so many times now, it's ridiculous.
For all your Dragon Ball needs.

oh God, don't get my dad started.

lol thx =P.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by YokozunaBulldozer » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:32 am

I am glad it finished off on the Buu arc.

One Shonen Jump title that I really liked during my middle school days was Hoshin Engi by Fujisaki Ryu. Anime was a tad disappointing but the manga was fun for a 20-something volume title.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Mu La Flaga » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:31 pm

YokozunaBulldozer wrote:I am glad it finished off on the Buu arc.

One Shonen Jump title that I really liked during my middle school days was Hoshin Engi by Fujisaki Ryu. Anime was a tad disappointing but the manga was fun for a 20-something volume title.
Dragonball GT I don't like too highly for many reasons myself.

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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by YokozunaBulldozer » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:56 pm

Mu La Flaga wrote:
YokozunaBulldozer wrote:I am glad it finished off on the Buu arc.

One Shonen Jump title that I really liked during my middle school days was Hoshin Engi by Fujisaki Ryu. Anime was a tad disappointing but the manga was fun for a 20-something volume title.
Dragonball GT I don't like too highly for many reasons myself.
I don't mind GT as a spinoff, but yes, Z is where I draw the line too for now unless Toriyama cooks up more canon stuff in the future.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:54 pm

For those who do not know, Magi and the Kingdom of Magic DUB (and sub but that is nothing new) is now on Netflix. I am a big fan of the dub from the first season! Besides, this is a good chance for people to rewatch the show in a legal fashion free of ads.

If you haven't seen the show, you should check it out. Like Hunter X Hunter it is a very different Shonen and goes against many of the overused tropes that are common in these kinds of series. Oh and S2 of Magi is VASTLY superior to S1, so if you were put off by the first season (especially the ending), trust that it gets much better!
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by monster » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:04 pm

Season 1 of Magi was actually what got me interested in the story, but the manga made me lose my interest. I stopped reading when
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it seems they're making the prince who wanted revenge on her mom to be the bad guy now that he's taken over.

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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by YokozunaBulldozer » Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:24 pm

Saint Seiya, Gintama, and Sket Dance comes to my mind at the moment.
Also let us not forget the best shonen manga ever; Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo.
It had Koyasu of all people voicing Bobobo.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:30 pm

monster wrote:Season 1 of Magi was actually what got me interested in the story, but the manga made me lose my interest. I stopped reading when
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it seems they're making the prince who wanted revenge on her mom to be the bad guy now that he's taken over.
You are missing out monster. I will admit I was skeptical of the story going in that direction, but Magi used that as an opportunity to play again with the tropes of the genre and break down the status quo.
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That prince actually became a great anti-hero...not even a villain. He was an antagonist yes, there some of his reasoning can hardly be called a simple cut and dry as wrong. Additionally it was more of a mini-arc than anything else...and strangely enough, dealing with that whole problem seemed to be a set up to a bigger arc in itself.
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by monster » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:49 pm

Soma Taozi wrote:You are missing out monster. I will admit I was skeptical of the story going in that direction, but Magi used that as an opportunity to play again with the tropes of the genre and break down the status quo.
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That prince actually became a great anti-hero...not even a villain. He was an antagonist yes, there some of his reasoning can hardly be called a simple cut and dry as wrong. Additionally it was more of a mini-arc than anything else...and strangely enough, dealing with that whole problem seemed to be a set up to a bigger arc in itself.
Oh, I realized that it was part of something bigger, but I was just weary of the story after going through that long (for me at least) flashback. Maybe I'll pick it up again in the future, but for now there are enough of other stories to keep me occupied.

Like, right now, I'm just getting into Shokugeki no Soma as I've been a fan of cooking competition shows since Mr. Ajikko and Iron Chef.

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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Henyo » Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:12 am

i stopped watching One piece at the CP9 arc. but not because i started to hate the story. i had become more interested in watching shorter and already finished shows.

the most recent shonen animes i've watched are Yowapedal, magi and Food wars. the latter only because of curiosity.(i grew up with Cooking master boy, Yakitate and Iron chef.)
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Amion » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:28 pm

I admit the backstory arc for Magi got on a LOT of people's nerves. I agree it could've been done better. And yes, I was furious when
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poor Hakuryuu was cast as a sort of villain there for a while. I was hopeful for a smashing, awesome comeback for the story when it appeared that Hakuryuu and Aladdin would join forces after losing their respective partners, but sadly that wasn't to be. Though at least the reasons for it were rooted in solid character portrayal.

At this point though, I feel Alibaba is just going to come back and be the annoying and mostly bland character he's been post Balbad. He was great up until the focus went to Magnosdadt. The writer never seemed to recover the spirit of the story after that incredible climax. The solid character development and complexity they gave him just... kind of... died with Cassim.

Maybe I just hate Koumei and Kuen for wanting to essentially commit Cultural Genocide, which is against my personal views. I personally wouldn't mind if it wasn't that Aladdin seems to no be bothered at all by their views and behavior. At least Alibaba did there for a while, but still fell to their wrong ideals. I don't mind them as characters per se, but only when it's shown that others disagree with them and point out their flaws. So far, that's not happened.

Course, we all know Sinbad will probably be allied with Hakuryuu, they did mention coming to a deal way back in the Zagan arc. They will form their alliance and be the big bads, possibly. At the very least, I expect we're going to have Sinbad be the final boss. He has it written all over him with the "Half cursed thing"
Sorry guys, didn't mean that to be such a long blurb. Just haven't had an outlet to discuss the story for a while. :D
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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Wellman » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:12 pm

I see you guys are talking about Magi here, so I guess I should ask, with the anime or at least some of it being on Netflix, should I give it a chance?

Honestly, I am a big One Piece fan, really enjoy Fairy Tail and have enjoyed parts of Bleach and Naruto. Is Magi worth a shot among those titles?

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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Epic SA-X Guy » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:12 am

YokozunaBulldozer wrote:I don't mind GT as a spinoff, but yes, Z is where I draw the line too for now unless Toriyama cooks up more canon stuff in the future.
Funny you should say that

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Re: Dragon Ball (And Shonen in general)

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:28 pm

Amion wrote:I admit the backstory arc for Magi got on a LOT of people's nerves. I agree it could've been done better. And yes, I was furious when
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poor Hakuryuu was cast as a sort of villain there for a while. I was hopeful for a smashing, awesome comeback for the story when it appeared that Hakuryuu and Aladdin would join forces after losing their respective partners, but sadly that wasn't to be. Though at least the reasons for it were rooted in solid character portrayal.

At this point though, I feel Alibaba is just going to come back and be the annoying and mostly bland character he's been post Balbad. He was great up until the focus went to Magnosdadt. The writer never seemed to recover the spirit of the story after that incredible climax. The solid character development and complexity they gave him just... kind of... died with Cassim.

Maybe I just hate Koumei and Kuen for wanting to essentially commit Cultural Genocide, which is against my personal views. I personally wouldn't mind if it wasn't that Aladdin seems to no be bothered at all by their views and behavior. At least Alibaba did there for a while, but still fell to their wrong ideals. I don't mind them as characters per se, but only when it's shown that others disagree with them and point out their flaws. So far, that's not happened.

Course, we all know Sinbad will probably be allied with Hakuryuu, they did mention coming to a deal way back in the Zagan arc. They will form their alliance and be the big bads, possibly. At the very least, I expect we're going to have Sinbad be the final boss. He has it written all over him with the "Half cursed thing"
If this keeps up we might have to make a Magi thread Amion :)

I am going to sound like a Magi fangirl, but I am still impressed with the story.
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I did not mind the backstory arc and found the ideas about God and religion introduced there fascinating and far beyond what I would expect out of a shonun manga. For example: there was a 5 page chapter with nothing but written text from David's perspective. I am a huge fan of politics, religion, philosophy, strong characters, so I am far from a passive observer or unbiased, but with all those elements Shinobu Ohtaka does each so well that regardless of the story involved, I am COMPLETELY invested.

As much as I enjoy One Piece, I feel that it is becoming formulaic. The lack of risk it took after Marine Ford was very disappointing and kind of steals its thunder. It is still able to do surprising things, but they are few and far between.

And with Hunter X Hunter on hiatus...I like it when manga take risks and in my opinion, the most interesting story progression comes from Magi these days. And back on that...

Maybe I am crazy but I did not see Hakuryuu as a villain. He certainly did unmoral things, but I saw his whole arc as more as the cost of vengeance. His reasons for revenge are something that I personally cannot fully condemn, regardless of the methods he went about to obtain those goals. Besides, since the beginning of his character introduction, I could see something like that coming...

I also must disagree with your assessment for Alibaba.

It is true that Balbad was his first major arc, but honestly I was not a big fan of it. Cassim was unlikable and the whole arc relied heavily on the 'betrayed our friendship' cliche between Aladdin and Alibaba...when their friendship wasn't fully fleshed out by that point. It did have some good moments and the finale between Cassim and Alibaba made me cry, but overall I found it relying on relationships and actions that we, as viewers/readers, didn't fully believe in or could relate too.

Also keep in mind that if you take out the Flash-Back Arc, Magnosdadt's ending was maybe 20-30 chapters ago. And a good portion of that was focused on Hakuryuu...meaning that we have not had a lot of time for Alibaba to become a major player. So I'm going to give Shinobu time to use Alibaba is new ways and continue to develop his character.

Considering the number of characters, political maneuvering, ect...I am just happy that Alibaba has not been lost in the sea of everything that is going on in Magi (like poor Morgiana, but she might be getting some focus soon so let's hope for that). And this might just be my personal preference, but I think the Magnosdadt arc was the best arc thus far. Yes, a lot of it was essentially training, but the finale was incredible. I know this word gets thrown around a lot these days and has lost its meaning, but that battle was EPIC in scope.

I always thought that Alibaba and Aladdin found Koumei and Kuen actions wrong when they saw Balbad, but they have no way to stand against these people who crush everything (including cultures) before them. Essentially they are forced to work with these kinds of people so the world does not END. Aladdin realized in that last chapter that their leaders weren't evil, but as have we seen before in Magi, just because they are not evil people doesn't mean their actions are "just."

I think the story has acknowledged how wrong Cultural Genocide is with the early Kouga arc, but it brings up a the harsh reality that in Magi's world, these cultures have no choice. They have to sacrifice their own culture to stay alive. I think this reality is why the Kou Empire has been presented in a bad light and that the 'crushing of identities' is what will bring about their downfall.

As for Sinbad? Who knows what he wants. He is shady, but I wonder if he is going to turn out to be evil or will be a player with shades of grey...time will tell...But I don't think its fair to discount Al-Thamen just yet, because I doubt Gyokuen Ren is gone.
Anyway that is just my thoughts on Magi. Like Knights of Sidonia, I am very biased and I realize that it has problems. Despite of all that, I still see it as one of the best shonun manga out there. But as we have before Amion, our thoughts on long-running shonun always seem to differ.
Wellman wrote:I see you guys are talking about Magi here, so I guess I should ask, with the anime or at least some of it being on Netflix, should I give it a chance?

Honestly, I am a big One Piece fan, really enjoy Fairy Tail and have enjoyed parts of Bleach and Naruto. Is Magi worth a shot among those titles?
I recommend you check Magi out Wellman! Watch the first season, and if you like that, move to the second (which is far better imo). Magi is just as fun as OP and FT, but deals with surprising issues too. I love it (if case you could not tell)!
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