Watching the UC series for the first time

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:48 am

Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory

Capsule:
ANIMATION: S
CHARACTERS: C
MECH DESIGN: S
PLOT: C
OVERALL: B

Favorite mecha: Gundam GP-03 Dendrobium, GM Custom, Albion, Xamel, Val Varo
Favorite character(s): Mona, Burning, Synapse, Gato, Kelly

Review: If you can't tell by my letter grades, I'm pretty conflicted with this one.

We'll start with the good bits. The animation was so good that sometimes I felt it was almost TOO good! So many beautiful scenes and shots that I'll probably have to go back and watch individual segments to really appreciate them.

And the mech design, of course. I've seen the machines from this series in so much other media that I was probably looking forward to this OVA the most out of any of them. The Dendrobium, in particular, has always fascinated me because of how strange it looks. (And I only recently discovered the flagrantly enormous HGUC model.)

Basically this was the most visually the most beautiful Gundam series I've ever seen and I'll probably re-watch bits and pieces of it to inspire myself.

But, sigh. In my 0080 review I alluded to feeling more depressed at the end of 0083. It wasn't because 0083 was more depressing than 0080 - it was because I was just severely let down. The real tragedy isn't the unoccupied colony falling on the midwest or the Titans being formed or whatever, it's that the viewer is totally robbed of the character development he or she was promised on day one.

Here are some questions I was left with: What was Synapse's fate? Why did Cima betray the Delaz Fleet? Why was the federation so up tight about the GP-03? (Was it to manufacture conflict where the writers had run out?) What did Nina even like about Kou, when all he did was constantly fail her? Why didn't Nina recognize Gato in episode one when he looked her directly in the face? Why would Nina choose the guy who was about to potentially murder millions of people?

And finally, who is Kou Uraki, where did he come from, why is he a pilot, and where does his natural talent come from? And also why is he such a doofus.

The only main character I liked in the show was Gato, simply because his motivation is crystal clear, and he is a well-written villain. I will say, though, that I didn't reach this opinion until after the show ended. Initially I liked Kou and Nina. The latter in particular because she initially seemed to fit that "capable female character" type that I value. But by the end of the show it turned out that, no, she's really smart but lets the dudes in her life make all her decisions, for some reason.

So I ended up liking the secondary characters more than the main ones. At least they seemed to know what they were doing.

If I were to re-write the primary relationship in the show, I'd probably - shock and horror - make Nina and Mona lesbians (early on I thought that might be a possibility), which would play beautifully off of Monsha's constant advances, and then let that relationship gradually happen in the background. That would give more time to focus on Kou's rivalry with Gato and narrow down the theme of that conflict to Kou's lack of passion. Maybe, instead of getting shot, he would realize that Gato is right and just let him crash the colony. Cut out the theft of the GP-03 and the character they created to be killed in that scene, then make Kou's court martial have something to do with failing to stop the colony from falling. Then you feel like he really deserves it and the viewer has to ask himself some tough questions on what he or she would have done in Kou's place.

So, anyway. That's probably enough words. Basically I wanted to like this show a lot but it ended up leaving me very cold. At least the robots were cool!

Zeta is of course a 50-episode show so it will take me a while to chew through it. I will probably post a few updates on my progress and then write a full review at the end.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:04 am

Wingnut wrote:Not really. It aired late at night on the Midnight Run section of Toonami which was also home to the 08th MS Team's run as well as the uncut version of Gundam Wing.
Ah. Yes, I remember well the cut version of Gundam Wing - it was the one I had on VHS. I loved the part where Duo shoots someone (Heero, I think) and the bullet just disappears into his arm, making no sort of wound at all. What was the purpose of censoring, again?
zetatype wrote:Nice reviews, glad you liked both the original MSG and War in the Pocket.
While I do think the movies are the superior version in terms of story, one of my disappointments in the films was the fact that they cut out "The Trap of McCuve" and "Matilda's Rescue" which gave Mirai some nice character development. I also miss Amuro's duel with McCuve's Gyan as I thought it was one of the best fights in the series.
Aw, man. Those were two of my favorite episodes.
zetatype wrote:Gundam 0080 is probably my all time favorite Gundam series which is kind of odd considering since it's probably the least gundami-ish animated series in the franchise. However, this also makes it very easy to show to my friend who aren't familiar with the Gundam franchise in the slightest.
Yeah. G Gundam is my favorite because I tend to err on the side of Super Robot, but 0080 is way up there for me and I'd probably show it to almost anyone. I think it has a wide appeal.
zetatype wrote:One of the reason for this is because I (and probably some other people) see a bit of my younger self in Al. Like Al, lots of us probably used to see war as fun and games with good guys fighting bad guys. But as we get older we learn that the reality of war is far removed from those fantasies, and Al's character development throughout the series is a brilliant depiction of this.
This has actually been a conflict for me since I'm a fan of stuff like G.I. Joe but I'm more or less a pacifist. I've had to figure out how to divorce my love of "fantasy war" from "actual war."
zetatype wrote:Another thing I thought was odd was Shiro's Side 2 backstory. We only get a very brief mention of it in epsiode 1 and an equally brief flashback in episode 7. I get the feeling that originally the writers wanted Shiro to have an intense hatred of Zeon due to the fact that he was on the colony that Zeon gased. The purpose this would serve would be to make Shiro's change of heart all the more powerfu and memorable. However, it's possible they dropped this because they feared they would not have enough time to properly develop Shiro, and thus having him despise Zeon would have made his change of character seem very unconvincing to the viewers. Granted this is all just conjecture.
I gathered from those scenes that Shiro had a longtime hatred of Zeon, but I certainly agree that it should have been more developed. Still gives him more background and motivation than Kou Uraki, though!
zetatype wrote:Anyway looking forward to your thoughts on Stardust Memory though personally I think it would have been better to view it after Zeta Gundam.
Once I get through Z, ZZ, and Char's Counterattack I'll review my viewing order, too. At the moment I liked how Stardust Memory set up the stuff I'm seeing in Zeta.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Amion » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:05 pm

I what I'd still like to know more than anything is why the Dalez fleet dropped the colony on the midwest to begin with. What was their reasoning? If they hit Jaburo, and they had every chance to pull it off perfectly, the Federation would have suffered a horrifying blow and Jamitov would be dead.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Soma Taozi » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:57 pm

Amion wrote:I what I'd still like to know more than anything is why the Dalez fleet dropped the colony on the midwest to begin with. What was their reasoning? If they hit Jaburo, and they had every chance to pull it off perfectly, the Federation would have suffered a horrifying blow and Jamitov would be dead.
Didn't it have something to do with food supplies? Like Dalez wanted to wipe out the grain belt of the Federation so people would starve? I am not 100% so don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember reading about that somewhere on this site...
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:01 pm

Soma Taozi wrote:
Amion wrote:I what I'd still like to know more than anything is why the Dalez fleet dropped the colony on the midwest to begin with. What was their reasoning? If they hit Jaburo, and they had every chance to pull it off perfectly, the Federation would have suffered a horrifying blow and Jamitov would be dead.
Didn't it have something to do with food supplies? Like Dalez wanted to wipe out the grain belt of the Federation so people would starve? I am not 100% so don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember reading about that somewhere on this site...
I think that was the deal, yes. In hindsight it kind of reminds me of something Skeletor would do, like stealing all the books in Eternia so people couldn't read. Or that one time in Transformers Masterforce when Buster and Hydra kidnapped a bunch of doctors from this one country so people would lose the will to live...or something.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Kratos » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:19 pm

The thing that gets me about 0083 - aside from its lackluster characters and laughable plot - is that it's all so unnecessary. The reasoning behind the formation of the Titans was presented perfectly fine in Zeta, and in any case didn't need some DEEP DARK CONSPIRACY IN THE FEDERATION. A major anti-government uprising had resulted in a war that caused the death of billions, and it's perfectly understandable how that alone would carry enough political heft to form a paramilitary force dedicated to snuffing out rebel elements. Instead, we get colony drops never mentioned again with effects that are equally conspicuous in their absence. It was a story that really didn't need to be told, and ended up with more questions than answers.

I mean, I can handle contrived retcons in theory; I love Unicorn, for instance, but with its contrivances come strong themes and likable characters and a plot that is tight and well-told. 0083 has, well, none of that. Just really nice animation and battles. I guess what I'm trying to articulate is that if your story is being shoehorned in, try to make it worth telling.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Quiddity » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:07 pm

Wingnut wrote:
M-308 Gunner wrote:Also, apparently this show was aired on Toonami? Could this possibly be the most depressing thing to ever be aired on that venerable block? It must have been a bitch to censor, too.
Not really. It aired late at night on the Midnight Run section of Toonami which was also home to the 08th MS Team's run as well as the uncut version of Gundam Wing.
Unless I'm completely misremembering things, I believe they made some pretty notable edits to it on the Midnight Run, such as editing out Garcia's death. Regardless, hard to argue it wasn't the most depressing thing they aired on Toonami (among Gundam anyway), 0080's certainly more depressing than MS Gundam, 08th MS Team and 0083.

Add me to the list of those frustrated by Shiro's sudden "No Killing" stance in 08th MS Team. It came virtually out of nowhere, made little sense given the position he was in, and ultimately endangered himself and those around him more than if he didn't have that stance. That and the overall Shiro - Aina relationship was the biggest flaw of that show.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by zetatype » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:45 am

Amion wrote:I what I'd still like to know more than anything is why the Dalez fleet dropped the colony on the midwest to begin with. What was their reasoning? If they hit Jaburo, and they had every chance to pull it off perfectly, the Federation would have suffered a horrifying blow and Jamitov would be dead.
Soma Taozi wrote:Didn't it have something to do with food supplies? Like Dalez wanted to wipe out the grain belt of the Federation so people would starve? I am not 100% so don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember reading about that somewhere on this site...
Oh boy this decision again..okay I'll try to keep this as brief as possible

I actually used to believe that the purpose was to starve the population, but according to some people on this site there are many written sources that say during the OYW the Earth's population relied mostly on the colonies for food and even more so after the war due to the devastation inflicted on Earth's environment.

Now the primary purpose of Stardust was not to inflict damage on the federation's military production or leadership, but to inspire future rebellions. It was essentially a message saying that the mighty federation was far from invincible.

While losing Jaburo would have been a significant loss production wise I doubt it would have severely hampered the Federation in the long or even short run. While Jaburo was the primary production site for war machines during the OYW it was because Jaburo was pretty much the only major strong hold with the capacity to do so at the time. Considering this is three years after the war I think it would make sense that they've spread out their production capabilities by now.

As for eliminating the federation leadership. Considering that Admiral Kowan is just causally walking to his evac tranport before the colony is about to hit, its clear that Jaburo took precaution and had enough time to evac its personal in the event the colony could not be stopped.

In light of all this Jaburo still makes the most sense to target since its still a significant symbol of the Federation military and its destruction would be far more symbolic than the destruction of some random farms.

Now there are some people that believe Gato did target Jaburo and when he told Nina that jaburo wasn't the target what he actually meant was that Jaburo's destruction in terms of war production and leadership was not the operation's ultimate goal/target. The only reason why it didn't hit Jaburo was because Bask's second firing of the solar laser altered its course, granted I'm not sure is this makes sense scientifically in the slightest. Some believe that what Gato said to Nina is a mis-translation, but I'm not an expert in Japanese so I can't really comment on the validity of this whole theory.

Christ that wasn't brief at all, sorry about that

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:23 am

zetatype wrote:Christ that wasn't brief at all, sorry about that
It's perfectly fine with me and I'm enjoying this discussion.

It also seems to illustrate well one of the problems with 0083. The goal of Stardust is highly unclear so it removes impact from the climax of the story. It's especially true because the show makes a big deal about discovering what Stardust "really" is.

Meanwhile, some stray thoughts on Zeta so far. (I'm up to ep. 10; please no spoilers for the rest of the show :) )

- Camille is like Amuro on nitro. A lot of the times I feel like he totally deserves the beatings he repeatedly gets. I didn't even feel that sorry for him when he lost his parents, since it was pretty much a direct result of him stealing a Gundam and escaping with the AEUG. (But I did feel a bit sorry.)

- I was really sad to see Bright get kicked around by the Titans early on.

- Quattro rules. I'm actually liking him more in this role than I did in MSG.

- Kai is back and he's now a journalist, like me! This is good.

- Even though I said before that I like simplicity in mech design, I also really like that 80s "overdrawn" style that you see in shows like Zeta and Macross. The suits now have a lot more stuff hanging off them, like the verniers on the Gundam MK II, the rifles on the backs of the Rick Dias, and the additional shield and cables on the Hi-Zack. I'm not sure if I'd call it GOOD design, but I do like it a lot, and it is consistent.

- (For an interesting example of this style, check out "Call of the Primitives," a third season episode of the original Transformers show that used totally different animation models than the rest of the series.)

- One thing I can see as a potential problem for my enjoyment of Zeta is how many different factions are now involved - the Feds, the Titans, the AEUG, and now the Axis. It's a far cry from the simple Feds VS. Zeon from MSG.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by LightningCount » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:21 pm

This is a good thread M-308 Gunner! For me, MSG and its OYW setting are the bread and butter of UC. Once UC gets away from that, it seems to have problems of balancing characters and story in a consistent and/or compelling way, IMO. While not my favorite series by any means, MSG itself is a classic series with some pretty timeless writing, and I find myself respecting it more and more over the years. The idiosyncrasies of subplots, settings, and extra mobile suits and characters in the TV series are very charming; and the MSG Movies, while improving in some areas from the two parts I've seen--including a better establishment of the Zabi family, IIRC--lack some of those memorable/charming extras of the TV.

0080 and 08th MS Team are my favorites in UC. I usually give 0080 the edge for just how tight and powerful its writing is, but I recently re-watched 08th MS Team, and it's a very strong contender in its own right that challenges 0080 for top spot. (I can understand the criticisms about Shiro's late no-kill policy and his and Aina's relationship, but I re-watched it with those things in mind, and like you, I was willing to give those elements leeway given the characters' idealistic nature, the circumstances they were put through, and the fact that more time goes by in the series than we get to see on screen. Truthfully, I found the complaints exaggerated). Since you like strong female characters, Karen should have been to your liking. The age and maturity differences in 08th Team help make it memorable. I liked how 08th MS Team mixed traditional military hardware of planes, helicopters, tanks, etc with MS hardware (something Gundam Wing did prominently, as well). 0080's Hygogg is indeed incredible, but I found the Kampher very cool and unique addition, too. That opening attack scene is one of the most iconic in all of Gundam; likewise, 08th MS Team's final duel with Norris and his Gouf Custom also fit that bill. There is so much one could say about these series in all areas of review.

0083 is a conflicted show. Like you, I found the side characters and villains significantly more compelling than the heroes. 0083 has a lot of great animation, intrigue, and battles, but it does sort of leave one feeling puzzled. I don't know what to say. But I will say this: this series probably has the best presentation of space battles in all of Gundam.

As for Zeta Gundam, I regret to say I still haven't gotten through the whole thing. I haven't really felt moved to finish it, except out of a vague sense of curiosity and/or obligation as a fan of Gundam and mecha. I was at the midpoint of the series. The Zeta cast hadn't won me over to that point. They have their charm every now and then, but I just find a majority of them largely irrational, scatterbrained, and/or whiny. (And some of them are simply not interesting or charismatic enough to be popping in and out). From my experience, the story sort of jumps all over the place without making me "care." It hasn't been bad by any means, but outside of a few episodes, particularly the stretch of 10-16, it hasn't amazed me, either. While admirably bigger in scope, I haven't been left with an impression that it's as "solid" as 0079 to date.

Now, in full disclosure, and maybe it's obvious, Gundam Wing is my favorite Gundam series due to its overall scope and philosophical/political overtones of distinct, wounded characters trying to find their purpose in a world that shatters again and again. But you said that G-Gundam is your favorite, so I don't think that should preclude me from commenting on UC shows.

Aside from MSG, I do find myself drawn more to UC OVAs and movies than series. After having watched it enough times to comprehend it, I have a fair amount of respect for F-91, actually. Eventually, you might want to check it out to see one potential future of Universal Century that was cut short.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Amion » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:20 pm

LightningCount wrote:This is a good thread M-308 Gunner! For me, MSG and its OYW setting are the bread and butter of UC. Once UC gets away from that, it seems to have problems of balancing characters and story in a consistent and/or compelling way, IMO. While not my favorite series by any means, MSG itself is a classic series with some pretty timeless writing, and I find myself respecting it more and more over the years. The idiosyncrasies of subplots, settings, and extra mobile suits and characters in the TV series are very charming; and the MSG Movies, while improving in some areas from the two parts I've seen--including a better establishment of the Zabi family, IIRC--lack some of those memorable/charming extras of the TV.

0080 and 08th MS Team are my favorites in UC. I usually give 0080 the edge for just how tight and powerful its writing is, but I recently re-watched 08th MS Team, and it's a very strong contender in its own right that challenges 0080 for top spot. (I can understand the criticisms about Shiro's late no-kill policy and his and Aina's relationship, but I re-watched it with those things in mind, and like you, I was willing to give those elements leeway given the characters' idealistic nature, the circumstances they were put through, and the fact that more time goes by in the series than we get to see on screen. Truthfully, I found the complaints exaggerated). Since you like strong female characters, Karen should have been to your liking. The age and maturity differences in 08th Team help make it memorable. I liked how 08th MS Team mixed traditional military hardware of planes, helicopters, tanks, etc with MS hardware (something Gundam Wing did prominently, as well). 0080's Hygogg is indeed incredible, but I found the Kampher very cool and unique addition, too. That opening attack scene is one of the most iconic in all of Gundam; likewise, 08th MS Team's final duel with Norris and his Gouf Custom also fit that bill. There is so much one could say about these series in all areas of review.

0083 is a conflicted show. Like you, I found the side characters and villains significantly more compelling than the heroes. 0083 has a lot of great animation, intrigue, and battles, but it does sort of leave one feeling puzzled. I don't know what to say. But I will say this: this series probably has the best presentation of space battles in all of Gundam.

As for Zeta Gundam, I regret to say I still haven't gotten through the whole thing. I haven't really felt moved to finish it, except out of a vague sense of curiosity and/or obligation as a fan of Gundam and mecha. I was at the midpoint of the series. The Zeta cast hadn't won me over to that point. They have their charm every now and then, but I just find a majority of them largely irrational, scatterbrained, and/or whiny. (And some of them are simply not interesting or charismatic enough to be popping in and out). From my experience, the story sort of jumps all over the place without making me "care." It hasn't been bad by any means, but outside of a few episodes, particularly the stretch of 10-16, it hasn't amazed me, either. While admirably bigger in scope, I haven't been left with an impression that it's as "solid" as 0079 to date.

Now, in full disclosure, and maybe it's obvious, Gundam Wing is my favorite Gundam series due to its overall scope and philosophical/political overtones of distinct, wounded characters trying to find their purpose in a world that shatters again and again. But you said that G-Gundam is your favorite, so I don't think that should preclude me from commenting on UC shows.

Aside from MSG, I do find myself drawn more to UC OVAs and movies than series. After having watched it enough times to comprehend it, I have a fair amount of respect for F-91, actually. Eventually, you might want to check it out to see one potential future of Universal Century that was cut short.
I don't know if this might help any, Count, but I do know that the midpoint is kind of stagnant plotwise, unless you're talking about the spoilered for Gunner's sake
Spoiler
Show
Dekar arc. In any case, the forties get much better. Rosamia's screentime might be a big issue, but otherwise the different factions and their leaders really start kicking plot into high gear during the forties up.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:12 pm

LightningCount wrote:This is a good thread M-308 Gunner! For me, MSG and its OYW setting are the bread and butter of UC. Once UC gets away from that, it seems to have problems of balancing characters and story in a consistent and/or compelling way, IMO. While not my favorite series by any means, MSG itself is a classic series with some pretty timeless writing, and I find myself respecting it more and more over the years. The idiosyncrasies of subplots, settings, and extra mobile suits and characters in the TV series are very charming; and the MSG Movies, while improving in some areas from the two parts I've seen--including a better establishment of the Zabi family, IIRC--lack some of those memorable/charming extras of the TV.
I suspect if I ever get the itch to re-watch MSG I'll check out the movies, then probably watch some of the episodes with the material I miss the most. (Have I mentioned I love the G-Fighter? It's so obviously designed as a toy and it's hilarious to watch the writers try to make it seem like real military hardware.)
LightningCount wrote:0080 and 08th MS Team are my favorites in UC. I usually give 0080 the edge for just how tight and powerful its writing is, but I recently re-watched 08th MS Team, and it's a very strong contender in its own right that challenges 0080 for top spot.
I suspect these two will land in my favorite slots once I'm through with the rest of UC.
LightningCount wrote:Since you like strong female characters, Karen should have been to your liking. The age and maturity differences in 08th Team help make it memorable. I liked how 08th MS Team mixed traditional military hardware of planes, helicopters, tanks, etc with MS hardware (something Gundam Wing did prominently, as well).
I couldn't really decide on a favorite character in 08th, but Karen was indeed a contender for that spot. I especially enjoyed the scene where Sanders is moping about his reputation as the "grim reaper" and Karen's fist flies in from off screen, delivering probably the most epic Bright Slap in UC. (Although Zeta seems to be trying hard to beat that in just about every episode)
LightningCount wrote:0080's Hygogg is indeed incredible, but I found the Kampher very cool and unique addition, too. That opening attack scene is one of the most iconic in all of Gundam; likewise, 08th MS Team's final duel with Norris and his Gouf Custom also fit that bill. There is so much one could say about these series in all areas of review.
The Kampfer was indeed a cool machine. I was remiss in not mentioning Norris' final battle in his Gouf Custom - awesomely well choreographed and superbly satisfying. The show did a great job of setting up his ace level skills. Actually I probably should have added the Gouf Custom to my list of favorite mecha from that show.
LightningCount wrote:But I will say this: this series probably has the best presentation of space battles in all of Gundam.
Aw yeah. 0083 was like the greatest desktop background of all time.
LightningCount wrote:Now, in full disclosure, and maybe it's obvious, Gundam Wing is my favorite Gundam series due to its overall scope and philosophical/political overtones of distinct, wounded characters trying to find their purpose in a world that shatters again and again.
If I'm not just totally sick of Gundam when I'm through with UC, I'm planning to watch the 90s AU series. Wing in particular because it's so wrapped up in nostalgia for me. Having only ever seen a quarter of the episodes, and those on VHS, dubbed and censored, I'm excited to watch it in its original version. I have seen Endless Waltz, too.
LightningCount wrote:After having watched it enough times to comprehend it, I have a fair amount of respect for F-91, actually. Eventually, you might want to check it out to see one potential future of Universal Century that was cut short.
I'd like to. All with the caveat of "If I'm not sick of Gundam," of course. I might need to binge on something with lots of yelling first. Maybe Gaogaigar.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by mcred23 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:13 am

Quiddity wrote:Unless I'm completely misremembering things, I believe they made some pretty notable edits to it on the Midnight Run, such as editing out Garcia's death.
Well, they edited out the exact shot of him getting hit, then him setting off the mines. Instead, you see him run out toward the Alex, I think there is a shot of a bunch of Feds shooting at him as he climbs next to the Alex, and then the explosion, so it's pretty easy to conclude the bomb he was carrying went off. At least, I was able to figure it out as an 11 year old the first time I saw it on CN. And yes, they did a major amount of editing to 0080 to remove gore and violence (Particularly in that episode), but it was mostly done very well (As was similar editing in the broadcast versions of 0083 and 08th MS Team) compared to later shows like SEED.

And as one further note on the whole Stardust confusion, it's worth noting that it's target and where it even hits in North America aren't totally clear. zetatype referred to the Solar System II hitting the colony after Gato said Jaburo wasn't the target, but it's not clear if that had any effect on where the colony ended up hitting. On the same note, while it's said the colony hit the North America granary, that label could be applied to a pretty massive area (Infamously including areas we see fine and dandy in Zeta, such as where Amuro was living at the time!), and I think even a Japanese source says the colony hit around Washington State (Which would likely be outside that perceived area). Really, that whole thing is still muddled and confusing. :|

As for some unanswered questions...
M-308 Gunner wrote:Here are some questions I was left with: What was Synapse's fate? Why did Cima betray the Delaz Fleet? Why was the federation so up tight about the GP-03? (Was it to manufacture conflict where the writers had run out?) What did Nina even like about Kou, when all he did was constantly fail her? Why didn't Nina recognize Gato in episode one when he looked her directly in the face? Why would Nina choose the guy who was about to potentially murder millions of people?
Synapse was executed for his role in everything (Disobeying orders, stealing things, etc). Presumably that was carried out in the roughly four month gap from when he (And Kou) were sentenced and the cover up took place. See this thread for more.

The exact reason for Cima's betrayal is, IIRC, not explicitly given. Part of it might have to do with how the Zeon Marines were viewed as war criminals by other Zeon (They supposedly have some role with the colony gassings at the start of the OYW). I think some other sources claim she (And some of her men?) are from the Mahal colony (AKA, the colony converted to the Solar Ray) and that caused more ill feelings between the Marines and everyone else. It all comes from a litany of sources, but I don't feel like searching for threads where the subject came up right now. :mrgreen:

As for the Nina stuff, I chalk it up the writing of the show, which IMO was weak (At best) on that subject. The only thing I can say is that I don't think Nina got a clear view of Gato in the first episode. IIRC, she was a fair distance away, only saw him for a moment or two, and I think from the side on top of all that. Still, he identifies himself pretty quickly, and then everyone talks about him a lot, so her relationship with him not coming up (Or even being hinted at?) for the next ten episodes (Spanning nearly a full month in the story) goes back to the writing. :roll:
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:55 am

mcred23 wrote:The exact reason for Cima's betrayal is, IIRC, not explicitly given. Part of it might have to do with how the Zeon Marines were viewed as war criminals by other Zeon (They supposedly have some role with the colony gassings at the start of the OYW). I think some other sources claim she (And some of her men?) are from the Mahal colony (AKA, the colony converted to the Solar Ray) and that caused more ill feelings between the Marines and everyone else. It all comes from a litany of sources, but I don't feel like searching for threads where the subject came up right now. :mrgreen:

As for the Nina stuff, I chalk it up the writing of the show, which IMO was weak (At best) on that subject. The only thing I can say is that I don't think Nina got a clear view of Gato in the first episode. IIRC, she was a fair distance away, only saw him for a moment or two, and I think from the side on top of all that. Still, he identifies himself pretty quickly, and then everyone talks about him a lot, so her relationship with him not coming up (Or even being hinted at?) for the next ten episodes (Spanning nearly a full month in the story) goes back to the writing. :roll:
Yeah, based on what I can remember, Cima and her Marines were tasked to gas the colony used for Operation British (without their knowledge of it even being poison gas) and, as a result, as you mentioned, she and her Marines were used as scapegoats (thrown to the wolves by her commanding officer no less, IIRC) for the hatred and disgust of those actions from all sides and, also like you mentioned, having her presumed home of Mahal forcibly evacuated and converted into a colony laser (a one-time use one, no less, IIRC), thus even taking away a place to go back to only intensified the feeling of hatred and betrayal.

For the love triangle, it feels like something must've happened during the creation where someone(s) suddenly decided in the middle of everything that having a love triangle would make things more interesting, and add more conflict and "meaning" to Kou and Gato's rivalry besides just Kou being the underdog that would work up to being Gato's equal. Now if, as you mentioned, the writing was up to snuff about it, I could understand why it would make things a bit more intense with having a much more personal stake involved with their rivalry (like Amuro and Char had Sayla between them in MSG, or various women between Kamille and the Titans or Scirocco in Zeta), but rather than actually working like that, it just feels really half-hearted and sloppy.

As for the withholding of the GP03, I can only guess that it's due to the plan the Federation hammered out with Cima involving the final stages of Operation Stardust, and not wanting interference from those who had no clue about it and risk ruining it. We see a similar thing earlier on when the Albion ends up battling the Cima Fleet just before they could rendezvous with the Birmingham in order to exchange information with the Federation Captain on board, forming the Birmingham to pull back and pretend to engage the Cima Fleet too in order to put on a show, the Captain commenting on them "always interfering".

Unfortunately, obviously, they underestimate both the determination of the Albion crew to stop Operation Stardust (without knowing about the whole connection), and how far the Delaz Fleet would go to ensure its success (with Delaz committing suicide so Gato and the rest of the fleet can freely attack the Federation without Delaz being used as a bargaining chip), thus resulting in the failure to destroy the colony with the Solar System II and allowing it to hit Earth, even though, as we see, it really did more to HELP the anti-Zeon cause and get the Titans formed.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by M-308 Gunner » Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:50 pm

Brief update: I've slowed down on my UC watching, partially because Zeta isn't thrilling me and partially because I tend to watch episodes while I'm doing gunpla stuff and I've finished all the gunpla I had lying around.

But I'm up to episode 17 and I think the Psyco Gundam is about to show up, and I've always loved that thing, so I'll probably have some mid-series thoughts once I'm through that episode.

Meanwhile I'm trying to decide which HGUC kits I'm going to tackle next. I've recently built the G-Armor set and Char's Zaku II. I'm partial to earlier UC fare, and I don't care if the kit is dated. I'm thinking I'm going to build the Gouf or the Zaku I.

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by LightningCount » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:52 pm

M-308 Gunner wrote:Brief update: I've slowed down on my UC watching, partially because Zeta isn't thrilling me and partially because I tend to watch episodes while I'm doing gunpla stuff and I've finished all the gunpla I had lying around.

But I'm up to episode 17 and I think the Psyco Gundam is about to show up, and I've always loved that thing, so I'll probably have some mid-series thoughts once I'm through that episode.

Meanwhile I'm trying to decide which HGUC kits I'm going to tackle next. I've recently built the G-Armor set and Char's Zaku II. I'm partial to earlier UC fare, and I don't care if the kit is dated. I'm thinking I'm going to build the Gouf or the Zaku I.
Thanks for the update. I've been encouraged to finish Zeta, and will do so one day, but as I said before, I've had a hard time getting through it. If you're at ep.17 and aren't particularly thrilled, that's not a good sign in my opinion, because aside from a few early episodes, I found the stretch of episodes between roughly 10 and 16 to be the most interesting/enjoyable up to the halfway point.

I won't say much about Psycho Gundam except that I personally found the presentation of its later AU counterpart, Destroy Gundam in Destiny, to be better handled in execution (both in terms of cinematic danger and in terms of resulting character emotions). So, Psycho Gundam didn't do much for me in Zeta, but I can see how it would have been a big deal in its own time frame of release. The thing about Zeta, though, is that it was once considered to be the best UC series hands down, and sometimes is still given that title; but from what I've seen (half), it just isn't hooking me to anywhere near that level. But I will say that it was ambitious and didn't rest on the OYW laurels.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by soulfire916 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:22 am

Might have already been said, but skip G-savior, even tomino (0079 director) said it was crap.

update:

Honestly, while people find Zeta to be the best one, I find it hard to get through, 0079 was much better imho.

also, first half of ZZ isnt that good, but ride it out the other half makes up for it.

Victory gundam is pretty fun, but then again, what 90's gundam isnt fun?
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by HellCat » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:29 pm

I think there's some worth to watching G-Saviour once you've gone through the UC stuff. It's really your best chance to judge if it works or not. Personally I think it's acceptable as a low budget sci-fi movie but sadly dissapointing as a UC Gundam one.
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Zeonista » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:49 pm

HellCat wrote:I think there's some worth to watching G-Saviour once you've gone through the UC stuff. It's really your best chance to judge if it works or not. Personally I think it's acceptable as a low budget sci-fi movie but sadly dissapointing as a UC Gundam one.
G-Saviour is the SyFY Gundam movie. :twisted:

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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Kratos » Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:41 pm

I just can't bring myself to hate G-Saviour. While it's execution leaves a LOT to be desired (especially visually), G-Saviour has a pretty interesting concept behind it. I genuinely believe that the Gundam franchise has churned out worse.
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