Watching the UC series for the first time

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Rex
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Rex » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:18 pm

Considering how often I hear that working on Turn A "cured" him? And some of the crazy stuff that shoots out of his mouth now?

I almost would believe him having a split personality LOL.

Some people are just emotional. Very emotional.

Now, I've never met the guy. Can't really come to a conclusion one way or the other on him. So everything I say is just speculation or parroted gossip. But if Reccoa really is based on a woman who spurned him then that'd sort of lend weight to the idea of his art being easily swayed by his emotional roller coaster.

Admiral Larsen
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Admiral Larsen » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:10 pm

Quiddity wrote:
But he was also in a dark place during the time that he made Zeta. I've heard he had two really dark swings in his life. During Zeta and during V, and that he struggled with depression that only went away with Turn A.

As comparison, he made Space Runaway Ideon I think right before Zeta Gundam, and it's even bleaker. Like, holy cow. I won't watch that show.
It's rumored that Tomino was constantly depressed, but outside of Victory Gundam I'm not sure how accurate that is. It seems more to be heresay and assumptions based on the tone of his shows.

I think its pretty obvious that he was a very upset person during Victory; around that time Sunrise was sold to Bandai and there was big pressure to push toy sales enough so that the producers forced him to move the fourth episode to the first one because it featured the titular mobile suit. He responds with one of his more brutal shows and has basically sworn it off, telling people to not buy the show.

Ideon actually came 5 years before Zeta Gundam and there were several series between the two (Gundam movie trilogy, Xabungle, Dunbine and L-Gaim). During L-Gaim he was reportedly in love with VA Maria Kawamura, who instead got together with character/mecha designer Mamoru Nagano, whom Tomino wasn't getting along with anyway. I've heard (but am not sure of the validity of this) that Reccoa, whose character is widely criticized was based on Kawamura.

I think Tomino's "Kill Em All" type endings comes largely out of the war-based settings of said shows, the fact that he liked to go against the flow and the fact that he was trying to avoid sequels (which worked until Zeta, after which he got into a long cycle of only being able to do Gundam shows). The whole depression thing seems unlikely to me, especially when you consider that the tone of his shows tend alternate between dark and more light hearted throughout much of his career. He'd have to have a split personality or something to go so back and forth over and over again if he was letting his mood dictate how his shows went.
If that is true about Kawamura, then that is ironic considering who she voices in Zeta Gundam and the plans that Tomino had for that particular character once he got he green light to adapt Char's Counterattack into a movie, the executives rejected the changes he wanted to do for the movie and he wrote another novel version of said movie. Then again there is the fact that Kawamura voices Quess in the movie. Make that what you will.

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Amion
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Amion » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:10 pm

Aaaand... moving away from gossip, after recently finishing Zeta, I've come to the conclusion that Katz was in fact growing up like Kamille did, but his development got stopped by the entrance of Haman Khan and Axis into the mix. His rages often started when the AEUG decided to involve itself with Axis, and even when it wasn't an active effort the mere fact that the Neo Zeon existed pushed his buttons.

It's tragic, because he really can't be blamed for his behavior toward the Zeon. They murdered his family, we presume, chased him and his surrogate family across the Earth Sphere, and slaughtered countless others while he was all still just a child barely older than a toddler. Having to confront the loyalists to the worst killers in history was just too much.

Maybe if he'd met Mineva, and its kind of odd I only realize now that he never actually meets her. Perhaps if he'd had something to direct his focus away from them, he'd mature like Kamille. But as we all know he doesn't get that chance and encounters Zeon before he's mentally ready for the burden.

If anything that's the difference between Katz and Kamille. Kamille, for all his issues, never decides to follow a vengeful path to murder all the Titans, and instead tries and eventually overcomes his turbulent emotions. Katz, on the other hand, never overcomes his hate. A soul pulled down by gravity, could we say?
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

HalfDemonInuyasha
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:15 am

Katz's crush on Sarah didn't help matters either, especially after Katz ended up also repeating the Amuro/Lalah/Char history with his trying to kill Scirocco only for Sarah to take the blow for Scirocco, and given it was ultimately the Titans (Yazan) who shot Katz down and not Neo Zeon. The difference between them though is that, with Katz, it wasn't much more than a mere childish crush as opposed to Amuro and Lalah's whole magic Newtype understanding thing.
"I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet

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Quiddity
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Quiddity » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:48 pm

Rex wrote:Considering how often I hear that working on Turn A "cured" him? And some of the crazy stuff that shoots out of his mouth now?

I almost would believe him having a split personality LOL.

Some people are just emotional. Very emotional.

Now, I've never met the guy. Can't really come to a conclusion one way or the other on him. So everything I say is just speculation or parroted gossip. But if Reccoa really is based on a woman who spurned him then that'd sort of lend weight to the idea of his art being easily swayed by his emotional roller coaster.
Turn A Gundam didn't really "cure" him, Tomino's "Kill Em All" endings and very downer storylines came to an end with Victory Gundam, which is incidentally the show where there is the most hard evidence to point to him being depressed. Tomino made Brain Powered before Turn A Gundam and while not say a Gundam ZZ or Xabungle, it is a show that lacks the extreme downess you'll see in something like Ideon, Zeta or Victory, and not too many characters in the show die. The show tends to get forgotten since its one of his lesser works and people took some of his negative comments about Evangelion out of context to absolutely kill him over Brain Powered. But the lack of the extreme negativity and brutal endings starts there. And he had plenty of more lighthearted work earlier in his career anyway.

I do not deny that he clearly had women issues during Zeta and that influenced the show. But this notion that he had these massive mood swings into depression throughout his career and that its that which resulted in the tone of a lot of his shows I think is much more fan speculation than fact.
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excalibur2008
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by excalibur2008 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:16 pm

Rex wrote: It has regions where it's hard to get through. Like Amuro's desertion of White Base,
Oh, good to know I'm not the only one who thinks that.

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Brave Fencer Kirby
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:27 am

Rex wrote:Emma on the other hand was the polar opposite, and a symbol of a strong female.
I agree with most of what you said (though I actually rather liked ZZ), but I wanted to comment on this bit. Emma isn't a symbol of a strong woman. She's a soldier instead of a woman. Most of her interactions with Reccoa late in the series revolve around this. Reccoa tries to explain her actions by saying, in essence, that she has needs as a woman that were being ignored. Emma's response is that if you want to be a warrior, you have to set your identity as a woman aside. Emma is able to become a successful combat pilot by rejecting her femininity. Reccoa tries to be both, and goes crazy and turns evil. Emma isn't portrayed as a strong woman, she's portrayed as being strong by discarding her womanhood.
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Amion
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Re: Watching the UC series for the first time

Post by Amion » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:59 pm

It's true that's how it comes across, Kirby, but Emma makes mention several times that her gender has nothing to do with her moral actions (Which is why she joined the AEUG and why she condemns Reccoa for mass murder).

Although this has no bearing on the arguments with Fa and being a soldier, so in a way the above is more a parallel argument that's tied along with the other debate. :?
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

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