Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

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yazi88
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Worst ending ever? I know some of you are intent on hating on the show but seriously? Things were rushed, I'll grant you that, but not terribly so. The main stuff gets resolved and we even get a proper epilogue. Not much more I could ask for. The final boss battle was good to boot.

Really, it was just as good as Gundam X's ending.
Hey, at least in Gundam X, the main character got the girl, not get a almost Kamille brain fry then die from it. So not exactly a far comparison there. Still not the worst ending, just below a mediocre one. I've just learned to detach myself from the show so I could not be reeling from this ending which could've been seen coming from a while away.

I've still enjoyed most of the show though. Even though the ending does detract from it. It ain't AGE level ending.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

I could probably write a whole essay on everything that went wrong with season two, but then there would be no point seeing as how nobody besides me would really give a crap anyway, so I'll keep it brief. In short, season two was bad and vastly inferior to season one. Somewhere along the line, the show lost something, and as it drew ever closer to its conclusion, I no longer felt excitement or anticipation for the episodes to come, just a sense of apathy mixed with a hint of exasperation. Except for episode 21 -- looking back, I was probably experiencing a brief spike of sheer revulsion at that point.

There were a few moments towards the beginning that I liked, but between the horrendously rushed pacing -- which in turn lead to laughably poor development of the plot -- the annoying and useless main character, Okouchi's desire to make things as edgy and grimderp as possible in order to forcibly induce drama and suffering with the audience, topped off by an utterly predictable bare-bones ending... all-in-all, season two was just a mess.

Henceforth, I shall look back on season one fondly, and season two with much derision, and that's that. Valvrave came, Valvrave liberated, and nothing more really needs to be said. Over and out.
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zetatype
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Well I guess one of the reasons I'm not seething with rage is because I kinda saw this kind of ending coming.... though what was with that last scene?

Overall the episode was ok (very good fights), but as the end of the series it is rather poor. While some of major plot threads are wrapped up there is a lot of plot threads unresolved. I also feel that ending would have a bit better if it just ended with Saki narrating over some scenes taking place in present rather than cutting to that flash forward scene (again what was with that last scene).

Speaking of flash forward scenes, the lack of a third season has pretty much rendered all the flash forward scenes kinda pointless. Apart from foreshadowing Haruto's death a little bit, they offer no insight into events that were taking place in the present nor did they foreshadow anything else. Quite frankly the existence of the flash forward scenes leave a lot of unanswered questions, and without a third season we are left with little to no explanation of what happens over the next 1000 years.

Also, does Haruto's dream of creating a world where the Kamitsuki and humans coexist ever come to be? While the Magius have been exposed and overthrown the world seems to be in full witch hunt mode...not exactly what I'd call a bright future though it would be a good setup for the next season that will most likely never happen.



*sigh* well in the end I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy watching the series (and not just in a "so bad it's good" way). The series is not quite bad, but it's definitely not good either, and I won't be surprised if its something I remember in name only as time goes on.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

This show desperately needed an OVA for the epilogue/time jump to be expanded upon (Remember that thing that looked like a mecha from Gurran Lagann that the Green Valvrave fought in season 1?) A LOT needs to be cleared up on that front. Besides that... this ending was kinda predicable. But not the "worst thing EVVAAARR."

I am with Destiny_Gundam in that at least the openings were great. The second one took some getting used to, but I really like the lyrics of "Let's Shout for a Revolution" (translation probably isn't the best, but I am a sucker for phrases like that).

Over all, goodbye Valvrave...with your passing I declare Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet as the best mecha show of Fall 2012 (wow time flies).

Maybe that was why I was able to stomach some of Valvrave's darker moments...because I had Gargantia to pick me back up :)
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yazi88
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

I wish Haruto had a better ending, the guy constantly got crapped on the entire 2nd season and lost all his memories right before he died. Even was rejected by the girl he liked.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Strike Zero wrote: In short, season two was bad and vastly inferior to season one.
Eh, I feel the exact opposite. IMO season 2 was a step up from S1 and I'd go as far to say that much of S2's pacing problems were due to the writers not progressing the story enough in S1. S1's pacing was way too slow and it only felt that things finally started getting somewhere when S2 began. I also felt that the dialogue and character interactions in S2 were a lot less cringe worthy compared to S1.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Season one's pacing was fine. I won't deny that if Okouchi wanted to improve season two's pacing, he should have either had more happen in season one or come up with a simpler story. BUT that's not what happened, and presently, I like season one the way it was.

And I think the only reason the scenes in season two felt less awkward is because Shoko wasn't on screen half the time. It's true that back then she made me wish several times that she would just go away, but in the end she's another part of what made Valvrave special; it just wouldn't be the same without her.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

yazi88 wrote:Hey, at least in Gundam X, the main character got the girl, not get a almost Kamille brain fry then die from it. So not exactly a far comparison there.
The contents of the ending aren't really at issue. There's nothing wrong with what happened to Haruto because it wasn't stupid and pointless and out of nowhere like what happened to Kamille.
zetatype wrote:Also, does Haruto's dream of creating a world where the Kamitsuki and humans coexist ever come to be?
Well, it wasn't so much a world as it was a country. And we see that with the flashforwards. At the end we even see Shoko offering to be friends with whatever those things were, and the prince (who must be A-Drei's descendant) seems to be quite fond of his minders.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

The problem with Valvrave S2 seems to be that while the writing became more competent from an execution standpoint, it stopped being fun and wound up being really generic. The additional grimderp elements (especially the whole gunning down the kids thing) didn't really help matters because it's just more of the protagonists getting pissed on by the universe, which stops being entertaining when it happens too often and was basically Haruto's entire experience in the show.

To be honest, I think Valvrave would've been better as a video game, because there would've at least been a chance to explore the characters and concepts more than the anime managed to.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Questions that could have been answered but were never answered.

1 - Why is everyone so young after 200 years? I can understand maybe being a Valvrave pilot would keep you young, but not everyone was a Valvrave pilot.
2 - Why hasn't anyone's runes dried up after piloting for so long?
3 - What type of security force allows armed aliens to enter the sanctuary? And do we really think the aliens understand both English and want to be friends with humanity?
4 - How does bodyjacked L-Elf regain consciousness? Don't you have to re-bite the source to return the soul? So wouldn't in essence, L-Elf have reasonably died instead if his/Haruto's conscience had died? That would have been a more fitting end, probably. And if a bodyjacked person can just die off like that... what...
5 - What if Liesolette was actually a male Magius? :oops:
6 - How exactly does the JIOR faction actually fight off its opponents? It has 3 suits left, and with Shoko as a possible 3rd pilot. I mean, they're still considered monsters for cryin' out loud. I assume maybe the Dorssian Royalists and JIOR might form an alliance given their past.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Well, I finally got around to the final episode and... It was okay, I guess. I do love the ending, especially that bit where the console now says "Do you believe in Human beings?".

The show itself, however, is very lackluster that's got a lot more holes in it than there are craters on the moon. Really could've done better, but it didn't, so to this one I just say "meh". Glad that Saki and Akira in the end though, along with Unit 1.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

@Compass:

1: The implication, I guess, is that they all became Valvrave pilots at some point. Why? No clue.

2: Come to think of it, yeah, why is that? Maybe they haven't had to pilot that often...?

3: Ehhhhh.....

4: Maybe... because Haruto lost all of his Runes, his personality just... evaporated back... into... his body...? >_>

5: What, the show wasn't already gay enough for you? :lol:

One other major tidbit that the show never bothered to definitively answer for us -- Who is the Prince? Who were his parents? Why were they telling him all this? Why did they even bother to show him at all? I had assumed that the reason they were showing this to us (the only one that would make sense) was that they were eventually going to somehow move the plot into the future, but obviously THAT never happened. Absolutely zero insight into the plot was gained by flashing forward into the future -- the only thing they managed to accomplish was removing suspense over whether or not a few characters would survive and whether or not they were going to succeed in creating their Empire. Which is, oh, what's the phrase I'm looking for, not a good thing! :lol:
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

We also never understood just what was the significance of future Saki's pendant. Also we only had active 5 pilots plus Marie, but 7 knights in the future?
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

I'm 2 episodes into season 2. Friends made me look at spoilers.

REALLY not sure I want to finish this with everything I'm hearing.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Don't feel bad HellCat, I have watched every episode, except for this one, and I don't even know if I feel like watching after reading all of this.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Spoilers are a double-edged sword, since they can make something sound either way worse or way better than what it actually is. That goes for all anime but especially for shows like this one.

Personally, I think there's been enough variation in terms of reactions online, especially in various non-anonymous places, to say that people really shouldn't let themselves be too influenced by anything they read. You can always end up agreeing or disagreeing with a particular position.

That's just my perspective though. I'm not super-thrilled about the finale, but I enjoyed most of the experience. Of course, I can't guarantee this will apply to anyone else.
Last edited by wielder on Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

I for one enjoyed the ending. It didn't answer every question but it was still relatively enjoyable for Valvrave. I liked this season more than the first, but then, I didn't see this show as anything but a big train wreck to start.

So the train wrecked and ended and I have this strange feeling that all we saw was basically some kind of very long and too quickly explored prologue to a much grander story that got....well skipped over and alluded to in confusing ways. I almost wish we'd gotten the future story, then we'd all be wanting to hear about this one instead. Imagine if that last scene of Haruto dying had been the prologue, and we'd been forced to try and fill in bits and pieces?

But we didn't and what we did get was yes, not a MASTERPIECE or anything like that, but it was still a good enough ending. I thought it fit the show at least, perhaps not as sweet and tidy as X, but still good. The last scene with the Valvrave monitor was also a pleasing clincher and worth watching one more episode to see.

I'm hoping people will lose some of their cynicism and realize this is a crazy robot anime and not the end of the world. It isn't like this suddenly has become the truth about our world and we're forced to live with it or something harsh and unbending as that. But oh well....who am I to complain?

After all, I still have Majestic Prince's glorious mecha porn and Gargantia's wonderful story and characters, so why bother if one of the three non Gundam series of this year ended badly? And we still have Build Fighters too! So off I go, you guys and beat these horse bones to fine particles if you wish, others are doing worse elsewhere I'm sure after all, and I stopped caring after the poor animal perished waaay back in episode two or three.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Compass let's see if we can answer your questions using what we know.

1.) Presumably they were turned into Kamitski to carry on the wishes of their fallen friends.

2.) Using a Valvrave uses runes, a pilot must consume runes that are either stored in them or the Valvrave till they are used. When it runs out of this reservoir it begins to eat the pilots own memories. Possible that they setup a system with the royal family or some donation so the pilots don't lose their memories.

3.) 1, they seemed to be tangible liquid so they slipped through the cracks. 2, Shouko is communicating the only way she knows how and she says "fix" so maybe there is some bad blood between lifeform 7 and lifeform 53.

4.) Haruto most likely died in L-Elf and what L-Elf was talking to was the fleeting image of Haruto, an empty shell that didn't last long. To be more clear When a jack happens it looks like all the kamitski's runes are transferred to the victim. As such the kamitski is the dominant runes which are used by the valvrave. When all of Haruto was gone L-Elf simply regained conciseness life he was un-jacked.

5.) Not an applicable question.

6.) They have a lot more valvrave parts in the factory in the module. Maybe that is also why they decided to become Kamitski as well. Its simple enough, make a vlavrave, put a mirror rave in it, put a student in it. Since most of the limbs were already made they just had to connect them and put engines and students in them.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Commenting on a couple of the previous posts.

@yazi88:

Actually, I felt the implicit meaning of the pendant started to become almost too obvious after the previous episode and also after what Saki said during the finale. Not much of a real mystery, I'd say. I was actually hoping they'd suggest that something less predictable had happened.

@Strike Zero:

On the one hand, I guess the future content would be better addressed and more actively relevant if there had been another sequel, since otherwise the only other way you could "take the story into the future" would be by directly skipping over the present half-way through the second season, which would be technically possible but always rather awkwardly and not without several other complications.

On the other hand, I always expected the future to primarily serve as an epilogue rather than anything else. Which is precisely what it did. Does that really have no useful purpose, or is it necessarily "bad" to merely confirm that the characters will eventually succeed? I'm not sure I can agree with that statement, since in a show with so much angst and suffering about being a "Kamitsuki" there was a bit of a thematic need, if the struggle continued but the story couldn't be physically extended to show us everything beyond this point, to at least provide some balance to the equation. If we were to pretend that the future content had been removed and everything else remained exactly the same, I'd say the results would be worse rather than better in this specific regard. Neither scenario is particularly optimal though.

As for the Prince, I'll admit that issue was left a little too vague for my own taste...but there are a couple of seemingly likely interpretations about his lineage given the survival of two specific individuals in apparent positions of power. More to the point, as things stand he basically just represents a future generation learning about the faraway past. This isn't the first production in which unnamed children are being told a story by their elders, so to speak. The curious part of me does feel a bit uneasy about not knowing for sure though.
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Re: Valvrave the Liberator thread Mk II

Compass wrote:1 - Why is everyone so young after 200 years? I can understand maybe being a Valvrave pilot would keep you young, but not everyone was a Valvrave pilot.
They could easily become Valvrave pilots afterwards. Magius do age, thus their need to hop bodies, but the pilots are different. As for why, well in Satomi's case he probably wants to be with his sister (I wouldn't be surprised if Takahi is also still around). I hope I don't need to explain why Shoko would become one.
Compass wrote:2 - Why hasn't anyone's runes dried up after piloting for so long?
Most of the issues with the Valvraves has to do with Unit 1. Its special status has been known for awhile now. So they just have to avoid using Unit 1, or perhaps after 200 years they've found a way to prevent leakage.
Compass wrote:4 - How does bodyjacked L-Elf regain consciousness? Don't you have to re-bite the source to return the soul? So wouldn't in essence, L-Elf have reasonably died instead if his/Haruto's conscience had died? That would have been a more fitting end, probably. And if a bodyjacked person can just die off like that... what...
I imagine that the body jacking things works by transfering your Runes into another person. So if Haruto was out of Runes he couldn't sustain it. That what little he had left went back to his body seems like a natural thing to me.

Or what stagrider said.
Compass wrote:6 - How exactly does the JIOR faction actually fight off its opponents? It has 3 suits left, and with Shoko as a possible 3rd pilot. I mean, they're still considered monsters for cryin' out loud. I assume maybe the Dorssian Royalists and JIOR might form an alliance given their past.
The World was up in arms with its Magius hunt, so the students could probably lay low for awhile. ARUS ceased hostilities, and the Royalists now control Dorssia so no one in the immediate area is going to attack them. As you said, new JIOR is in tight with the new Dorssia government, which is also the foundation for the empire we see 200 years later.
Strike Zero wrote:One other major tidbit that the show never bothered to definitively answer for us -- Who is the Prince? Who were his parents? Why were they telling him all this?
As was established, the empire is the new form of Dorssia. The Royalists took over, meaning the royal family is back in power. A-Drei is a prince, you do the math. As for why they're telling him this stuff, isn't it ideal to teach the future ruler about his country, and isn't it best to hear things from the people who were there?

Characters telling the story in such a way is a common framing device. Sure, we knew nothing was going to happen to Saki, but it also raised questions about how they were going to reach that point over the course of the show. Even if we knew the destination, we didn't know what would happen on the journey there.

Anyways, so far as unanswered questions go, what exactly Pino and Ple are was never really explained.

And the one thing I was disappointed with was the way Q-Vier died. Bastard deserved much worse, preferably at the hand of a Valvrave pilot.
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