The Gundam SEED DESTINY Remaster Thread Mk II

[monster]

I still hate the random Japanese cultural elements added to the Archangel. I sure hope they drain those baths outside of combat time.

Actually, I'm glad to see that these baths are not exclusive to Japan.

But in terms of Japanese cultural elements, I've always find it strange for Murrue, of all people, to call Kira, Kira-kun.

[Strike Zero]

FIRST we had Lunamaria's panties, THEN we had Meer's Nipples. Did the HD Remaster pay for Lacus' ass too?! Or was her butt always in the contract? Because OH. Dear. God I don't remember THAT part of the episode!

I believe that shot was actually lifted from the Special Edition, so technically it's not new footage. Of course, this is still a big deal, because the Special Edition was only ever distributed on DVD, which means this is the first time we have been able to see Lacus delicious naked butt rendered in GLORIOUS HD.

[Silver_August]

Ah yes...the Special Editions, well even though it's not new animation, it was deemed worthy, no... REQUIRED for this remaster to truly be the definitive version of Gundam Seed Destiny!

If this keeps up I'm just going to start calling the series Gundam SEED T&A - Featuring cameo appearances from Shinn.

Hellcat brings up a good point about the disproving of a relationship...I didn't actually notice that but its true, good on them for dodging that, even if both of them have significantly minor roles in this series so its not like their relationship would've mattered...but hey! kudos are deserved.

[HellCat]

I think it makes Miriallia a better character. Tolle's death changed the course of her life and although not consumed by it it's clearly helping to still steer her. Dearka was just an ally of convenience. I really don't like it when shows go nuts pairing people up, especially when they seem to think a couple is above everyone else (I'm looking at you, Geass R2). Miri's reaction is a welcome bit of sanity in a show that will soon make killing a sibling a turn on for Luna.

[Soma Taozi]

Miri's reaction is a welcome bit of sanity in a show that will soon make killing a sibling a turn on for Luna.

Ugh, so not looking forward to that. But then again, it has been awhile since I have seen this series, so maybe it will make sense...? IDK, rewatching Destiny is making me question a lot of the generally accepted flaws of this show. It has its problems sure...but it seems to me a lot of problems folks on the internet have with the series...aren't really flaws at all.

But regardless, Luna is going to get some serious analyses from me when that time comes. If I could make sense of Katejina from Vicory Gundam...I can make sense of Luna. I MUST!

[monster]

Here's what I think:

Athrun, her crush, apparently turned traitor and even took her sister with him.
Meyrin, her sister, apparently turned traitor and left with her crush.

They both died.

Shinn, her friend and comrade, had the duty to apprehend/kill them. And he still had the decency to be sorry that he had to kill her sister.

So, with no one alive that she could be angry with, Lunamaria only had despair at her loss. And with the loss (and perhaps a feeling of abandonment and betrayal), she resolved to strengthen whatever relationship/bond she had left, and turned to Shinn.

At the same time, Shinn, possibly out of guilt and empathy, accepted Lunamaria's advance.

Of course, there is still an obvious exaggeration (this, being fiction for young audience) in how their relationship started, and probably a little reliance on the fact that they can be thought of as being emotionally immature as teenagers.

That said, with that premise, it's possible that time might cool off their relationship post Destiny. Or, they might realize that they like being with each other and the relationship continues to mature.

[HellCat]

Miri's reaction is a welcome bit of sanity in a show that will soon make killing a sibling a turn on for Luna.

Ugh, so not looking forward to that. But then again, it has been awhile since I have seen this series, so maybe it will make sense...? IDK, rewatching Destiny is making me question a lot of the generally accepted flaws of this show. It has its problems sure...but it seems to me a lot of problems folks on the internet have with the series...aren't really flaws at all.

But regardless, Luna is going to get some serious analyses from me when that time comes. If I could make sense of Katejina from Vicory Gundam...I can make sense of Luna. I MUST!

But if we don't have a series to unjustly hate on, how will we function as fans?!

I agree, going over Destiny like this is changing my stance on various things and I'm even warming up to it somewhat.

Either way, I still think Luna is a selfish gold digger.

[Soma Taozi]

Here's what I think:

Athrun, her crush, apparently turned traitor and even took her sister with him.
Meyrin, her sister, apparently turned traitor and left with her crush.

They both died.

Shinn, her friend and comrade, had the duty to apprehend/kill them. And he still had the decency to be sorry that he had to kill her sister.

So, with no one alive that she could be angry with, Lunamaria only had despair at her loss. And with the loss (and perhaps a feeling of abandonment and betrayal), she resolved to strengthen whatever relationship/bond she had left, and turned to Shinn.

At the same time, Shinn, possibly out of guilt and empathy, accepted Lunamaria's advance.

Of course, there is still an obvious exaggeration (this, being fiction for young audience) in how their relationship started, and probably a little reliance on the fact that they can be thought of as being emotionally immature as teenagers.

That said, with that premise, it's possible that time might cool off their relationship post Destiny. Or, they might realize that they like being with each other and the relationship continues to mature.

...wow that actually makes a good deal of sense and was what I was pretty much thinking of how I would go with her. Nice!

Either way, I still think Luna is a selfish gold digger.

But she is BUBBLY!!!! Which means all is forgiven!!!

[Silver_August]

But if we don't have a series to unjustly hate on, how will we function as fans?!

AGE

I like AGE and even I'll admit it, lol

[Gundam420]

I smell stockholm syndrome in the air.

[HellCat]

I dunno. What I'm experiencing with Destiny HD is a prime example of why I'm doing an ongoing mass Gundam rewatch. Sometimes it helps to go back and watch a show divorced from hype. I'm not saying make excuses for it (you'll notice my posts still complain quite a bit) but sometimes coming back to something helps. Maybe even your views have changed as you've gotten older.

I know after SEED ended I was pretty keen to the story continued (it was my first time being there 'as it happened' as a Gundam fan) and was really dissapointed with what Destiny gave us. Maybe it's the fact it's been there for a decade now but some of my opinions on it are softening.

[Gundam420]

I know. I was kidding. While I haven't really kept up with the Remaster (save for comparison images shown on websites), with every subsequent viewing of Destiny it just got worse for me.

[HellCat]

I know you were kidding. I can still reply with a salient thought

[Gundam420]

Oh ok.

[Silver_August]

We're not at the point where these opinions will REALLY matter ..but so far for me it isn't so much AWFUL as it is like watching the original 1960s Batman and Robin, you know it's not good but in a strange way it's not bad, you're enjoying it - but you know, this could be helped by the fact I got people to talk to about it, lol half the fun is coming her and discussing the series which has its own level of nostalgia to it.

That being said there are a few commonly accepted faults about the show I'd argue have been almost disproven with an authentic rewatch of the show (authentic as in 1 episode a week):

1. This being Shinn's show that was STOLEN by Kira when he returned to the forefront of the series - Even before episode 23, Shinn hardly did anything to deserve being labeled a main character, he's developed and had his moments, but Athrun has arguably gone through just as much, if not more, wih having to contemplate the weight of his father's legacy. All of Shinn's shining moments have little to do with development and more to do with giving him an ego that things missions out of the mobile suit a "beneath him". As brought up earlier in the thread.

2. Clipshows - Now I know the Remaster is probably making sure we avoid these, but we had ONE (probably unavoidable?) clipshow and you know what? It worked, I actually found myself liking it because it provided a lot of information about Orb in particular that I didn't know about.

3. Stockfootage - it hasn't been nearly as bad as I remember..but again let's just wait and see...

If anything faults I'm finding are stuff that can happen to any show, not just a problem with destiny. A frustrating pattern of 1 Ep of battling, 2-3 ep. of NOT battling, 1. ep of battling, 2-3 of aftermath/set up for the next, repeat for 24 weeks and counting.

Ontop of that, the End the World incident does indeed get brushed over pretty quickly and dealing with the aftermath of that would've always been a good direction for the series to go because now the world doesn't seem any different dispite the massive destruction it apparently caused.

I also just realized we're basically at the half way point of the series.

[Gundam420]

1. This being Shinn's show that was STOLEN by Kira when he returned to the forefront of the series - Even before episode 23, Shinn hardly did anything to deserve being labeled a main character, he's developed and had his moments, but Athrun has arguably gone through just as much, if not more, wih having to contemplate the weight of his father's legacy. All of Shinn's shining moments have little to do with development and more to do with giving him an ego that things missions out of the mobile suit a "beneath him". As brought up earlier in the thread.

It doesn't change the fact that before the show premiered, and in the Intro songs that Shinn was portrayed as the main character. That's false advertising. Why would you go out of your way to promote this guy as your new star, yet you're constantly shoving him aside for your older characters? Seed spent around 50 episodes developing its characters. There's no reason they couldn't have done this with the new cast.

[Gundam420]

1. This being Shinn's show that was STOLEN by Kira when he returned to the forefront of the series - Even before episode 23, Shinn hardly did anything to deserve being labeled a main character, he's developed and had his moments, but Athrun has arguably gone through just as much, if not more, wih having to contemplate the weight of his father's legacy. All of Shinn's shining moments have little to do with development and more to do with giving him an ego that things missions out of the mobile suit a "beneath him". As brought up earlier in the thread.

It doesn't change the fact that before the show premiered, and in the Intro songs that Shinn was portrayed as the main character. That's false advertising. Why would you go out of your way to promote this guy as your new star, yet you're constantly shoving him aside for your older characters? Seed spent around 50 episodes developing its characters. There's no reason they couldn't have spent 50 episodes developing the new cast. I mean heck, the promo art for the HD Remaster shows Shinn and no one else. Then you've got the other promo image that's just the Destiny Gundam. Why bother doing this? Why not just rewrite history and shove Strike Freedom and Kira as the main protagonist from the get go? Because it's clear that Fukuda and Morosawa don't see Shinn as the lead.

[azrael]

I dunno. What I'm experiencing with Destiny HD is a prime example of why I'm doing an ongoing mass Gundam rewatch. Sometimes it helps to go back and watch a show divorced from hype.

As they say, sometimes you just need to step back and take another look.

2. Clipshows - Now I know the Remaster is probably making sure we avoid these, but we had ONE (probably unavoidable?) clipshow and you know what? It worked, I actually found myself liking it because it provided a lot of information about Orb in particular that I didn't know about.

There's another clip show of Durandal later in the series have a self monologue with Head-Le Creuset. At least that one had a point.

3. Stockfootage - it hasn't been nearly as bad as I remember..but again let's just wait and see...

They have time to redo lots of scenes and clean up lots of animation they couldn't fix during the TV broadcast and during the Special Editions. That's why to stock footage hasn't been bad.

[latenlazy]

We're not at the point where these opinions will REALLY matter ..but so far for me it isn't so much AWFUL as it is like watching the original 1960s Batman and Robin, you know it's not good but in a strange way it's not bad, you're enjoying it - but you know, this could be helped by the fact I got people to talk to about it, lol half the fun is coming her and discussing the series which has its own level of nostalgia to it.

That being said there are a few commonly accepted faults about the show I'd argue have been almost disproven with an authentic rewatch of the show (authentic as in 1 episode a week):

1. This being Shinn's show that was STOLEN by Kira when he returned to the forefront of the series - Even before episode 23, Shinn hardly did anything to deserve being labeled a main character, he's developed and had his moments, but Athrun has arguably gone through just as much, if not more, wih having to contemplate the weight of his father's legacy. All of Shinn's shining moments have little to do with development and more to do with giving him an ego that things missions out of the mobile suit a "beneath him". As brought up earlier in the thread.

2. Clipshows - Now I know the Remaster is probably making sure we avoid these, but we had ONE (probably unavoidable?) clipshow and you know what? It worked, I actually found myself liking it because it provided a lot of information about Orb in particular that I didn't know about.

3. Stockfootage - it hasn't been nearly as bad as I remember..but again let's just wait and see...

If anything faults I'm finding are stuff that can happen to any show, not just a problem with destiny. A frustrating pattern of 1 Ep of battling, 2-3 ep. of NOT battling, 1. ep of battling, 2-3 of aftermath/set up for the next, repeat for 24 weeks and counting.

Ontop of that, the End the World incident does indeed get brushed over pretty quickly and dealing with the aftermath of that would've always been a good direction for the series to go because now the world doesn't seem any different dispite the massive destruction it apparently caused.

I also just realized we're basically at the half way point of the series.

I think whether you thought Shinn was intended to be the main character or not the point is that he was introduced as a very compelling character with a lot of potential, none of which ended up being tapped as the show ultimately decided to take an easier approach to his back story and turn him into a raging small minded brat. In his place, we got the main character from the previous series fully developed with nowhere else to grow running amok as the self righteous messiah crusader of seed-verse. The result was a sequel that had un-compelling and undeveloped characters, and that tossed aside a compelling discourse on war for the preaching sanctimony of the (some re-converted) old guard. The good guys were so right in their goody goodness it hurt to stare. The holy light of Jesus Yamato was not suitable for mortal eyes or moral complexity. (Yes, a decade has not diminished my seething contempt for this series. In fact, it might have just helped articulate it.)

That said, at this point in the series the reintroduction of Kira into the equation still offered a good potential for the thought provoking. The third party intervention angle in concept really wasn't a bad one. The Clyne faction could have become a very interesting vehicle to explore some very complex themes, such as whether it's hypocritical to use force in the name of peace, whether there really is a "good guy" in war, and whether being the third party really gives you moral authority in war (or more to the point, what exactly is moral authority in war). Something as simple as throwing some moral ambiguity into what Kira and co. were doing could have done wonders for turning the series around. It could also have been incredibly germane to the current events of the time, mainly at the height of the Iraq War when the occupation was just beginning to fall apart. The answering of these questions could have also given Kira and co. new interesting trajectories to grow in, and could have helped us see the Clyne faction in a different light.

This promise, like Shinn's potential as a character, ultimately goes unfulfilled. We're not really at the point where we realize the train wreck is about to happen. Funnily enough, that point is also when the stock animation problem starts getting really REALLY bad. I sometimes wonder if they spent so much time and money giving the Impulse fancy schmancy transformation sequences that they blew their budget for later on.

[monster]

In his place, we got the main character from the previous series fully developed with nowhere else to grow running amok as the self righteous messiah crusader of seed-verse. The result was a sequel that had un-compelling and undeveloped characters, and that tossed aside a compelling discourse on war for the preaching sanctimony of the (some re-converted) old guard. The good guys were so right in their goody goodness it hurt to stare. The holy light of Jesus Yamato was not suitable for mortal eyes or moral complexity.

I've always wondered why Kira got any special mention. Everybody was doing what they thought was right, so it's not like he was doing anything special in that department. Kira wasn't even preaching to his enemies.