ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

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ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:12 pm

The title says it all, looks like the rumors were true...and I am not that surprised, after all Fate/Zero was (from my understanding)very popular and well-received.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... ht-project

As a big fan of Fate/Zero (and as someone who thought Fate Stay/Night was mediocre) I have to say I am looking forward to this. I hope that it is another TV series, the movie Unlimited Blade Works had some good moments but overall it felt very rushed.

Given that the Fate and the UBW routes from the original VN are already been adapted (abet not well) I would say there is a high probability that the Heaven's Feel route will be this next project. Which I personally would enjoy, since I feel that this route ties in the best with Fate/Zero, and with Shirou overall becoming a better character who goes through development and realizes that their is actually a cost to his ideals...

But then again, I don't know what I will do without his heroic speeches of "People die when they are killed."

I am honestly surprised more people don't talk about Fate/Zero here since it is a very mature and thought-provoking series that is often very subtle (Saber is one of my favorite female characters in anime). Also it is one of those animes that has no fan-service. I see it as more of the 2011's Attack on Titan if people were looking for comparisons. So any thoughts people? On this new project? Or the Fate series in general?
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:26 pm

We did have a Fate/Zero thread going while it was airing.

I have problems with Zero's anime near the end. Definitely read the book. Urobuchi might be overexposed, but his talent is legit. I refute you claim of it having no fanservice, though. You have no idea how hard Urobuchi blew his load all over Saber's motorcycle :lol:

Personally I shove my middle finger in the face of those who dump on the DEEN anime. Those were great. The TV series followed the Fate route pretty closely while adding in elements from the other routes (which is a common practise for visual novel adaptations). UBW was indeed rushed, but understandable due to it being a movie. It had some amazing set pieces, though.

Also Kenji Kawai's score kicks the ever loving crap out of Kajiura's.

One would think the new work would be Heaven's Feel, since it's the only route left and the content would be more ufotable's style rather than DEEN's, but who knows. It could be some original work, or a retread of Fate or UBW. I wouldn't put it past them to not give us Heaven's Feel again. I mean, Prism Illya got an anime before the best route in the game? Something's not right here.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:04 am

I LOVED F/Z in spite of its horribly depressing ending, though I personally feel they spent way too much time on Caster.
As for this, I honestly don't see what else there is, other than a HF adaptation, that they could do.
But I'm looking forward to it all the same. Here's hoping it's a full-length series though.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:17 am

Dark Duel wrote:I personally feel they spent way too much time on Caster.
That's because they did. Caster and Ryuunosuke were the staff's favourite characters. This is part of the reason why the show stumbled at the end. Because so much time was spent on those two they had less time to do the end game stuff. Season 1 should have ended with Caster's defeat, not the beginning of the battle.

I don't mind them expanding Kiritsugu's backstory into two episodes since it meant more Shirley and Natalia.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Amion » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:33 am

I loved Fate Zero, watched all the way through this summer right after Fate/Stay Night. I enjoyed it much better, especially the soundtrack. It got repetitive, but hey, it's awesome repetitiveness. I must agree that Caster was focused on way too much, and it did leave with a slightly unsatisfying ending as the battle clearly shown in Fate/Stay Night simply doesn't add up, being a true fight between Archer and Saber versus the rather violent proposal and rejection.

But hey, it's still good, and I don't think it ended quite as tragically as it could have. We know what comes after in Fate, so it isn't all bad.

Although, I should note that my definition of tragedy is Hamlet style whole-sail slaughter. Until Kiritsugu actually kills Irisveel and his daughter versus a simple vision of him doing it, It's not quite as bad. And the lovers don't kill themselves over each other's bodies. But hey, that's a V and Zeta fan for you, Tomino and Shakespear have seared by sensitivity.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Tangerine » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:20 am

I did read FSN. The key word is "read". I didn't know what's wrong with the TV anime but it didn't live up to my expectation. Even UBW felt strangely not satisfying, I didn't get the same feeling when Shiro ridiculously challenged a Heroic spirit, stubbornly refuse defeat and eventually kick ass. as if since he's a mage he's on the same footing with Archer. Generally, I prefer what Ufotable did to Kara no Kyokai, it felt right.

New FSN should be the last route, definitely the best one IMO. However I prefer they take time to make it right this time. The content of Heaven's feel is pretty nasty and for the love of it wish they could just drop the dragon thingy, it just diluted the gravity of the scene. Lastly, I hope they take the sad end route/ real ending and not the best ending, just to troll the fans. :oops:

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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:35 am

The best ending is the true ending, though. All Type Moon anime adaptations use the True Endings because those are, well, the true endings :lol:
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:46 pm

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... rks/.77058

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... ilm/.77059

It's been confirmed: The new TV series will be Unlimited Blade Works, and Heaven's Feel is getting a movie project (hopefully multipart).

Wish I could be a bit more excited. I don't really care for UBW that much and am fine with DEEN's movie. If Heaven's Feel is only going to be one movie then there's no way they could do it justice. Either way since it's a film I won't be able to see it for a long time.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Raikoh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:41 pm

I'm of the type who would say four days out of the week that UBW was the best route (other three going to HF obviously), so I'm ecstatic that it can actually get a proper adaptation of the plot. Heaven's Feel getting a movie is just the cherry on the sundae, though I'll admit that the main reasons I wanted HF are for the climax (I have a bad habit of shouting out, "NINE LIVES" first thing whenever HF is brought up.)

Films can never do the routes of a visual novel the justice they deserve. You just can't compress a 20+ hour visual novel into a 2.5 hour max film and expect it to come out with the same quality of plot. Though, thinking about it, let's be honest - a large portion of Heaven's Feel has lengthy exposition dialogues with Kirei (which could be compressed for time), internal monologues (which might get cut entirely), or just waiting around (waiting at Sakura's bedside, waiting for more info on the Shadow, waiting for the training with the arm, etc.) so the film might actually be able to find some miracle combination of scenes that gets all the plot out of the way without feeling rushed or sloppy. At least we can expect some nice fanservice (I have been waiting YEARS for Nine Lives to get animated - Unlimited Codes does not count since it looked pretty bad) and maybe stir interest for a proper adaptation later down the line like what UBW is doing.

While I'm kind of disappointed it wasn't the reported "fourth route" that I was expecting, I love UBW so I'm hype as hell. It also works with the reported philosophy that they wanted the new FSN anime to feel similar to Zero somewhat, so giving the "Answer" to the question posed in Kiritsugu's character arc makes sense - though it might leave people who never read the novel and just watched Zero asking, "What about Sakura?" (HF movie notwithstanding).
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:47 pm

I am ambivalent to downright not giving a damn about Unlimited Blade Works getting a series, because I thought the movie was awesome (Though I did think it felt a little rushed).
I'll probably still watch it though, for the same reason. Because getting a full series out of it is awesome.

I'm a little saddened that Heaven's Feel isn't the one getting a series, because UBW's already gotten a movie, and HF is one I've been looking forward to for a long, long time, Rider fanboy that I am. Still, a movie's at least something, although I also hope it will be a multi-film project.
Because if it's just one movie, it's probably going to be really, really rushed. And that would suck.
Of course, if they manage to pull it off in one movie and not feel rushed, that would be unbelievably awesome.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:57 pm

Most people hype UBW because of Archer, don't they? I kinda have to shake my head at that, because in the end... is Archer really that great? His fight against Berserker in the first anime was cool, sure, but for stuff in UBW... He gets his butt handed to him in every fight. He's actually kind of lame like that. Shiro is much more impressive, though he has 0 character development. Despite being the heroine of the route Rin takes a back seat to Archer and Shiro, and all her development is in Heaven's Feel.

The only things I'd say is truely great about UBW are two of the fights, and Lancer.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Raikoh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:27 pm

It's more than just Archer to me (though I'd remind you that Archer didn't job through UBW. He could have killed Saber in the Berserker fight, could have killed Caster in their fight at the temple, and could have easily killed Shirou near the end). I personally just feel that the route has the most interesting moral questions and answers of the three. Heaven's Feel has a more defeatist attitude, sort of like the conflict is about being what the characters can't do rather than what they can. I am an idealist at heart, but one who likes to keep his feet on the ground (I use the term "idealized realism") so of course I gravitate towards the route that resonates with my philosophy the most. Besides, it gives a large amount of focus to some of my favorite characters who don't get that much attention in other routes (Lancer and Kuzuki being the most obvious). And it has what is, in my opinion, the best tearjerker moment in the entire novel ("Berserker, you're strong.") You can say what you will about the route not doing it for you, but to me, it's a great ride start to finish while I think Heaven's Feel is more like a rollercoaster - lots of build up with a great payoff, but the excitement is punctuated in short bursts rather than a steady stream that UBW gives me.

The Servants pretty much all have something to do in UBW, as well, with the exception of Assassin (who never does anything in any route anyway) and Rider. Everyone except Rider and True Assassin are brushed aside pretty quickly in Heaven's Feel, with many only really serving to fill in one need of the plot (Caster letting Shirou see Rule Breaker, Saber and Berserker to become bosses, Gil to give the Shadow a stomachache, and Lancer just to outline that there's danger). It works with the plot, but it makes it feel kind of strange when the Servants are taken out so quickly - and this is coming from a fan, so imagine how odd it would be for a new viewer who was used to Zero (where every Servant stays alive through most of the plot).

Like I said, the UBW has an answer to the question posed by Kiritsugu's route. It's a more well-rounded one than the answer given in Heaven's Feel, at that. It's easy to just say "yes" or "no" to the Superhero ideal, but it's hard to actually find a way to find the best way to make it work. Making the central conflict that question is a better way to tie it in with Zero, as that was something that they intended to do.

Also, the reason Rin doesn't really develop much in UBW is because she doesn't really feel the need to. She's already perfect as it is, right? Static characters aren't necessarily a bad thing. Though now that it's been mentioned, I also remember that earlier promo material for the new televised anime has had Sakura taking a prominent role (such as her placement in large areas for the posters and articles as well as the PV having the shot of her talking with Gil) so it's possible that we might get thrown for a curveball and the UBW anime could mix in elements of Heaven's Feel. Heck, one of the most interesting questions you could ask is, "How would UBW Shirou handle the HF situation?"

Regardless, I could go on for hours about why I love UBW the most, but I doubt it would be anything other than blowing hot air.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:23 pm

Should probably add some spoiler tags in there.

I don't think UBW's answer is exactly the most intelligent.
Spoiler
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"You trying to be a hero will only lead to a sucky life!" "No it won't! I will become a hero!" Shiro just blindly clings [drowns] to his ideals despite knowing it's going to end horribly for a lot of people. Really there's pretty much nothing preventing him from winding up just like Archer down the road.

I think Heaven's Feel has the better answer that ties into Zero. Kiritsugu clung to his ideas and as a result he lost all the people he loved (and saved no one other than Shiro). He could have been happy had he put more importance on the ones closest to him. And that's the choice Shiro made. He realised that his ideals weren't worth sacrificing the one he loved for and chose Sakura above all else. He didn't make the same mistake Kiritsugu did and got the happiest ending for it.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Raikoh » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:28 pm

I openly admit that UBW has some logical fallacies in it, and that's sort of the point. The message is left to the subtext, things that are suggested rather than stated. And I would not consider the solution in Heaven's Feel a legitimate answer to the question of Kiritsugu's ideal. To me, it's the equivalent of turning in this answer, "Technically a solution, but doesn't really address the question."
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There's a reason, I think, Shirou is so adamantly against Archer's opinion. He showed him the ultimate failure that blindly following his ideals would go for, and Shirou refuses to let that become a reality. His ideals shift, actually, in a very subtle way. He doesn't follow the "Kill one to save ten" philosophy in the final conflict - he decides that he wants to save Shinji, of all people, because he has faith that it's possible to save "everyone." He also points out that he will try his hardest in the future to prevent the bad life that he would ultimately lead - since it wasn't caused by his ideals, but by the fact that nobody could understand what motivated him. Consider it sort of like what would have happened had Kiritsugu made his intentions clear to Saber, or explained his actions to the Einzberns regarding the destruction of the Grail. Would it have saved his happiness? Maybe not, but it could have helped. UBW Shirou is fixated on the future, as opposed to Fate Shirou who is invested in the past and HF Shirou who lives for the present.

The central conflict, and the "Answer" that Archer found, was that it's possible to live by his ideals and find happiness. Maybe he won't live a peaceful life full of numerous friendships, but the bonds he will be able to make - which Shirou dedicates himself to doing (he still hangs out with Issei, mentions Shinji, and goes to London with Rin) - will be strong ones. The point of UBW is that you don't need to abandon an ultimately flawed ideal, just that you need to understand its fallacies so that you don't end up being destroyed by it. He doesn't exactly drown in his ideals so much as he decides to swim in them, to stretch a metaphor.

If we're talking about the plot working around Kiritsugu's ideals, then Heaven's Feel just seems like it's too easy and convenient. UBW is about trying to embrace the beautiful ideal of "save everyone," warts and all, and find a way to make it work. My biggest problem with Heaven's Feel is that Shirou just walks away from the ideal, when most cases aren't as gray and gray as the one with Sakura. When Archer says that protecting someone's life is not the same as saving them, he is in the wrong for the most part. You don't look down on firefighters because they just protect people's lives and don't help them rebuild the burnt down houses or fix any socioeconomic changes that might occur from someone having their house burnt down. That's a completely absurd philosophy to hold. What's especially glaring is that Shirou doesn't even bother afterwards to try and go back to his ideal - the ideal he loves, and the ideal that Sakura loves. It's not an event horizon, where you can't go back, and just makes HF Shirou seem sort of hedonistic after the plot's over. He doesn't have any opportunity to grow, since he has no desire to grow after the plot's over - as opposed to UBW Shirou, who decided to try and find a way to live his own life in harmony with his ideal. That's why the epilogue of HF is all about Rin, since there's not really anything noteworthy happening with Shirou. He just goes to the life of an average, boring plebeian, and has no issues with that. He will never save anybody else, because he doesn't want to save anybody else.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by SonicSP » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:18 pm

I love UBW to death so I'm really excited to see a series made of it. The movie was okay but it doesn't do the route justice given the format.

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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:30 am

No Kenji Kawai does automatically make it inferior, though... :lol:
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Raikoh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:04 am

Personally I would have preferred the soundtrack to be done by Katou Tatsuya, since Prisma Illya's soundtrack was great. Kawai can do some good tracks for psychological dramas, but not much going for him in terms of action-packed series. I mean, he's gotten better at making action music (see: 00) but it still just isn't his forte. Honestly, I'd have probably had no problem if they just lift tracks from Realta Nua, since that would probably be the best option... But instead they're going to be using Kajiura, who I feel is entirely overrated.

I guess my personal rule of thumb for my enjoyment of a Fate soundtrack is "how good is EMIYA?"

(If you're curious: Realta Nua [while I think the original had a better version of vanilla EMIYA, it has the unfair advantage of the amazing EMIYA#LEGACY] > Original > Prisma Illya > Kenji = Unlimited Codes > Extra > Time Alter)

I just hope that EMIYA and "Light and Darkness" get some good remixes. Maybe even... "Mighty Wind"? Maybe?
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:58 pm

Eh, I think the best version of Emiya is Kawai's version 2. The chanting really gives it that extra epic feel. The top ones you listed try to give it too much of a techno remix that I don't think captures that.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Raikoh » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:00 pm

I guess it's just a matter of personal taste. I admit that I have really weird tastes when it comes to music (one might say it's a snobby, "I like stuff that sounds unique" attitude, and to be honest... I am rather pretentious when it comes to soundtracks for the most part). I like the original version so much to the point where I think it's hard, if not impossible, to top it. The original Emiya, well, was a techno track with a little piano thrown in. Something about the Kawai track feels off. Again, action isn't his forte, so I think that his Emiya just doesn't have enough... "Energy" would be the word I'd use. Something about the instruments used or the tempo or something just doesn't lend itself to action scenes.

Another example would be to compare the original and Kawai versions of the second most iconic track from Fate, "The Sword of Promised Victory." I very much like Kawai's remix of it, but again, it lacks the aggression that made the original a battle theme. And while I won't say that the original was better than Kawai's version (because it didn't have the instrumentals to actually do that), the Realta Nua one is probably my favorite version - just like how Realta Nua is my favorite Fate OST.

I think that part of my opinions about the music coming together is because I have listened the crap out of pretty much all the Fate soundtracks, and the original novel's ones just end up being easier to listen to over and over again (out of necessity, since that's what you're going to be doing in a visual novel). Kawai's faded out of my brain after listening to them for... Weeks, admittedly. They end up being the kind of tracks that sound nice, but they just go in one ear, stay for a few minutes, and are quickly forgotten. Heck, I have the same reason for not really liking Kajiura's soundtrack. On the other hand, in talking about the novel's music, I still find myself occasionally humming, "Gentle Everyday" and getting tracks stuck in my head out of nowhere.

In short, I don't have any issues with Kawai's soundtrack outside of the fact that I don't think they can match with the compositions from the original novel.

And he cut out like 90% of the tracks from the visual novel and replaced them with just "meh" substitutes. Even if he didn't want to make straight remixes, he could've done what Katou did and remix the hell out of the original tracks instead of just removing them. The phrase, "Don't fix what isn't broken," is my logic. Yes, I'm very picky... When I want to be.
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Re: ufotable to Produce New Fate/stay night Project

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:50 pm

I think Kawai does battles just fine. His mixes have that grandeous feel you'd expect from a clash of legendary heroes. The way Emiya v2 kicks in when Shiro falls to his knees and the ensuing fight was perfection. Certainly better than Kajiura's snore fest.

So far as the original soundtrack goes, I don't think you can top New Dawn. After the ride that was Heaven's Feel is over and that track kicks in... After I finished that route I just sat there and stared at the title screen which was now showing the cherry blossoms. That, my friend, is beauty.

BTW, Kajiura isn't doing the music for UBW. This guy is.
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