Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

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Bryant Molirse
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Bryant Molirse » Mon May 27, 2013 7:48 am

Check their wikipedia page most of it is posted right there. And here is Chris Patton's twitter where he says himself he hasn't worked with them in 4 years won't work with them again. Everything else can be found with a couple of searches. This is Funimation, honestly.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by HellCat » Mon May 27, 2013 8:18 am

Bryant Molirse wrote:Check their wikipedia page most of it is posted right there. And here is Chris Patton's twitter where he says himself he hasn't worked with them in 4 years won't work with them again. Everything else can be found with a couple of searches. This is Funimation, honestly.
Reading that the only thing that stands out to me is the part about them downloading fansubs in order to help in producing their official subs. Part of me suspects more of that goes on in the industry then we'll ever hear of, but it's certainly a hypocrisy given the constant crusades against fansubs.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by bullethead » Mon May 27, 2013 8:38 am

HellCat wrote:
Bryant Molirse wrote:Check their wikipedia page most of it is posted right there. And here is Chris Patton's twitter where he says himself he hasn't worked with them in 4 years won't work with them again. Everything else can be found with a couple of searches. This is Funimation, honestly.
Reading that the only thing that stands out to me is the part about them downloading fansubs in order to help in producing their official subs. Part of me suspects more of that goes on in the industry then we'll ever hear of, but it's certainly a hypocrisy given the constant crusades against fansubs.
I'm honestly not that surprised that companies like Funi use fansubs to help the official subs, because the Japanese companies don't really seem to be the best at getting materials to their licensors. Then there's the fact that fans of something would probably be more familiar with things that an official translator simply isn't because they aren't focused on and intimately familiar with a handful of shows.

It is hypocritical as hell, but until someone makes a universal translator that's as good as the ones on Star Trek, it's a reality that we'll just have to accept.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by HellCat » Mon May 27, 2013 8:48 am

That's what I assume too. There's certainly no shortage of stories about how companies on the Japanese side can be difficult to work with in general and fail to produce timely/suitable masters.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Chris » Mon May 27, 2013 8:37 pm

Bryant Molirse wrote:I say I don't remember, and I get called a fanboy. I don't have Hulu, hell I can't get anything better than dial up at my home, so my limited experience with what Funimation has available for streaming on basic Hulu comes from hanging out at my frineds house. Most of what I remember seeing on there was older releases, like Sgt Frog. I don't even remember the rest because I had seen everything they had posted over 5 years before hand when it was originally released by them. But beyond that, lets look at Funimation's track record for the last five years.
Yes, because if you don't know the facts about their streaming services and complain anyway, you're acting like a ranting fanboy. I also don't see how your internet connection is relevant here at all. You don't need a broadband connection to go to a website and read a description of the services they offer. Your lack of exposure to what they offer and subsequent misunderstanding of their offerings is on you, not them.
Bryant Molirse wrote:They have been caught using fan-subs for translations multiple times.
Yes, and what's your point? From the ANN article sourced by Wikipedia:
ANN wrote:Funimation had not offered an official comment at press time. However, a source at the company who wished to remain anonymous said that the company occasionally uses "unofficial" copies during the dubbing process if the acquisition of the original source material is delayed. The source said that Funimation's license makes the use of the content legal, even with a third party's unauthorized changes.
Are you aware that Japanese companies are often very slow in getting materials delivered in a timely or complete manor to American licensors?
Bryant Molirse wrote:Has gone on a licensing binge to obtain nearly every marketable title that has come out of japan anime-wise for the last what, 2 and half years.
So what? Stop the presses! Anime company goes after popular titles in a quest for money! Because companies should seek out titles that aren't popular, right? There's not much of an anime industry in America these days and Funimation is the biggest player, so I don't see what your complaint is here.
Bryant Molirse wrote:Funimation supported SOPA, and PIPA, which by their very wording would have put Wikipedia, Google, even MAHQ, in the crosshairs for unlicensed use of copyrighted material, for the use of images, and data pertaining to "licensed propety".
I didn't support either of those bills, but do you have any evidence that Funimation did? I see no Google results and even the House Judiciary Committee's list of SOPA supporters doesn't mention Funimation. It's a pretty comprehensive list, and I'm curious if you are against all the other companies that supported the bills or if your ire is reserved solely for Funimation.
Bryant Molirse wrote:They log tons of DMCA removal requests not just on the sites that have them, but to Google as well. Most time if you do a anime related google search, and see this result was removed due to DMCA, it was Funimation that requested it be removed. Hell I have seen this happen to anime music videos before. Not shows, fan edited music videos. And they do this for series they haven't even licensed.
Yeah, and "fan edited music videos" are exactly as legal as fansubs, meaning that they aren't legal at all. Also, are you aware that anime licenses don't happen overnight and follow months of negotiation? It's not uncommon for a Japanese licensor to look at American piracy and ask the American company to do something proactively against that.
Bryant Molirse wrote:Funimation has a track record of trying to sue anyone, and everyone they can. Hell they are suing Section23 and other companies that were once ADV Films regarding to the sale of assets. Chris Patton (the voice of Sousake from FMP, as well as many other characters) called them out on this one as being a dick move. And he even admits he will probably never work with them again.
I'll agree that the mass anonymous lawsuits is murky, but Section23 is another matter. Where's your legal expertise on this issue, and for that matter where is Chris Patton's? Have you followed the case and read all the documents to even know what you're talking about, or are you just one of these fanboys who thinks any company launching any sort of lawsuit is automatically a dick?
Bryant Molirse wrote:Funimation is only interested in one thing, and that is total market domination. Not quality, not fans, but to make as much cash as possible. It's fine that's their business model, but at least own up to it. The fact is they wouldn't be streaming their media at all if it wasn't for the fact it is the only way they have a leg to stand on when it comes to their fight against online piracy. By giving a legal avenue to view their media for free, it allows them to marginalize fansubs. If they didn't the number of people supporting fansubs would skyrocket, and they would have a much harder time finding support for their actions. Much like sacrificing a pawn in chess, this gives them better legal standing to sue, or attempt prosecutions.
Whoa, stop the presses again! A company wants to "marginalize fansubs" and make people get stuff for free through legal means! I'm not going to moralize against fansubs because pretty much everyone here (myself included) has watched them. But don't present fansubs as being anything other than they are, which is illegal. And as previously mentioned, these American companies are sometimes required to take active steps against piracy for series they want to license.
Bryant Molirse wrote:Now this is my fanboy comment lol.
No, every single word you wrote before this is also a fanboy comment.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Outlaw » Mon May 27, 2013 9:48 pm

Bryant, I understand where you're coming from heck, a lot of us can probably empathize with you're frustrations. The problem is you're portraying a lot of actions without considering motive, or worse yet just appending "they are dicks" as motive.

Let's look at it in a different light:
Person A kills Person B.
Wow, Person A sounds like a real bastard right?

Now let's expand on that by adding motive:
Person A killed Person B because Person B is a brutal serial murderer/rapist who was going to do inhuman things to Person A while slowly torturing them to death.
Yuck! Yeah, I know it's extreme but it gives you a radically different view on Person A.


While Funimation may not have as good a motive they still have a reason, even for the really f'ed up stuff, and judging their actions without pausing to really, seriously consider their possible underlying motives is not only a bit silly it also makes you come off as a half cocked fanatic.

Look, I'm not trying to get you to love Funimation, or even like them for that matter but, if you're going to be making an argument you need to take the correct steps and make sure you do it right. Really dig, get as much info and perspective as you can and, most importantly, be ready to have your views challenged and be open to the possibility that you may be wrong. If you don't you're not only doing your topic a disservice but yourself as well.

I applaud your passion and dedication but maybe rein it in a little yeah?
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Overlord Zaru » Mon May 27, 2013 10:27 pm

I love funi's VAs, and their dubbed products. I don't see why all the hate.

I like supporting the release by watching their shows.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Xenosynth » Mon May 27, 2013 10:37 pm

Funimation also doesn't seem to be as bad when it comes to removing things as other companies. I mean, they've let the DBZ Abridged series stay up and it's fairly popular, and if they were actively looking to block videos I'm sure they'd target that since I imagine DBZ happens to be one of their higher up series.

Everything else I could say has been said by Chris though. Especially about the points that... it's a company, of course it wants to dub and obtain the most popular shows, that's how you make MONEY. Which is kind of necessary for them to do shows that aren't as popular, so they have the money to do so. You can't form a company and dub some obscure shoujo drama that no one knows about and then expect to make up the funds you lost from getting the license and all that.

People seem to act like all companies need to not want money but the thing is it's a necessity, and in the end no matter what the company needs a profit. I mean, would we have nearly as many Gundam works if the side things like models didn't constantly make them money? Besides the ridiculous SEED DVD sales I have to imagine that most of Gundam's money comes from the models. And it's worth it given the model quality has for the most part only gotten better as well. So... customers are pleased because model product gets better and better, Bandai is happy because money, and fans of the show are happy because they get more shows (For the most part).

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue May 28, 2013 2:14 am

I always thought that people hated Funimation because of a irrational hatred of dubs...not because of the company in general and just when I thought I learned everything about the anime community, oh mechatalk, you teach me new things every day.

I will come out and say I like funimation a lot; everything they have done has improved over the years.

Voice acting in particular has been great,(FMAB, Baccano, Steins;Gate, ect) my only complaint is that I wish they took more risks in trying out new blood in the VAing community, but they are a business...and they like to go with what works. Besides, from everything I have seen in Cons and just read about, Funimation seems pretty hands on in the anime community in the US.

And can we talk about their pricing? Anime has always been a little more pricey, but I recently bought Steins;gate for about $40s and that was a great price for a great series! And it is a hell of a lot less expensive then say Aniplex...where Blue Exorcist and Fate/Zero are in the hundreds of dollars...

Overall, if Funimation gets their hands on Gundam? Good. More exposure here in the US at a good price. I have yet to see a single legitimate complaint about these discussions. Valid fears, sure... but any reasons WHY this shouldn't happen? None.

Bryant, I feel your statement about Christopher R Sabat and how he apparently "ruins whatever he touches" sounds more like a personal problem...nor do I see how that pertains to anything of necessary discussion.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by bullethead » Tue May 28, 2013 9:53 am

Soma Taozi wrote:Voice acting in particular has been great,(FMAB, Baccano, Steins;Gate, ect) my only complaint is that I wish they took more risks in trying out new blood in the VAing community, but they are a business...and they like to go with what works. Besides, from everything I have seen in Cons and just read about, Funimation seems pretty hands on in the anime community in the US.
Viz and Funi have been adding some new blood lately, but the big problem is that anime dubbing sucks when it comes to the pay. Steve Blum talked about it on Rob Paulsen's podcast and it was some absurdly low number for each episode (with no royalties for his work IIRC). You're pretty much stuck with either old veterans or very new people who love the material enough to keep coming back, despite the low pay.

Which is a shame, because I'd like to hear Keith David in an anime dub that wasn't done by Disney at least once.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Amion » Tue May 28, 2013 3:08 pm

bullethead wrote:
Soma Taozi wrote:Voice acting in particular has been great,(FMAB, Baccano, Steins;Gate, ect) my only complaint is that I wish they took more risks in trying out new blood in the VAing community, but they are a business...and they like to go with what works. Besides, from everything I have seen in Cons and just read about, Funimation seems pretty hands on in the anime community in the US.
Viz and Funi have been adding some new blood lately, but the big problem is that anime dubbing sucks when it comes to the pay. Steve Blum talked about it on Rob Paulsen's podcast and it was some absurdly low number for each episode (with no royalties for his work IIRC). You're pretty much stuck with either old veterans or very new people who love the material enough to keep coming back, despite the low pay.

Which is a shame, because I'd like to hear Keith David in an anime dub that wasn't done by Disney at least once.

Oh, so that's how it is. I always idly wondered what those poor VAs are given in compensation for their work. Now I frankly don't blame them even if they performed at a mediocre level, I suck at stuff when I'm not being paid or compensated.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Strike Zero » Tue May 28, 2013 3:25 pm

I've been hearing about the poor pay for anime voice over work more often lately, and it's really not too surprising once you stop to think about it. Unlike companies that produce domestic products, American anime distributors are at the double disadvantage of first having to pay out the ass in order to get the rights to distribute their shows in the first place, then being forced to make up for it in a shrinking market that was already a niche to begin with. That the salaries of the actors and actresses suffer for it is a sad, but inevitable result of that situation.

Which is why you constantly hear the reason major players like Crispin Freeman and Stephanie Sheh stick with it isn't to make money, but because their love for anime is just that great.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by HellCat » Tue May 28, 2013 4:16 pm

Stephanie Sheh is a small woman but the half second look she gave me when she briefly thought I was illegally downloading Unicorn would have sent an army into retreat.

Her love of Japanese animation is not to be underestimated :?
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Khandri » Tue May 28, 2013 5:20 pm

^ I want to see (hear?) Stephanie Sheh in more Gundam dubs, because I like her as Mineva in Unicorn (and the voice she used for Eureka in Eureka Seven is pretty much exactly what I envision for a dubbed Tiffa in Gundam X). But that wouldn't happen if Funimation got their hands on the franchise, because they'd use their in-house Texas-based VAs instead.

When it comes to anime dubs, I just have a real affection for the LA/NY-based VAs, because they've done some of the best in the business (Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Trigun, etc.).
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by JacobYBM » Tue May 28, 2013 7:05 pm

I'm hoping FUNimation doesn't receive the licenses. Their practice of removing the original credits and title cards leaves me feeling rather nonplused.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by bullethead » Tue May 28, 2013 7:09 pm

JacobYBM wrote:I'm hoping FUNimation doesn't receive the licenses. Their practice of removing the original credits and title cards leaves me feeling rather nonplused.
Huh? If you're referring to the stuff they put on Toonami, they have to do that to make room for ads.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by LightningCount » Tue May 28, 2013 9:50 pm

Khandri wrote:^ I want to see (hear?) Stephanie Sheh in more Gundam dubs, because I like her as Mineva in Unicorn (and the voice she used for Eureka in Eureka Seven is pretty much exactly what I envision for a dubbed Tiffa in Gundam X). But that wouldn't happen if Funimation got their hands on the franchise, because they'd use their in-house Texas-based VAs instead.

When it comes to anime dubs, I just have a real affection for the LA/NY-based VAs, because they've done some of the best in the business (Cowboy Bebop, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Trigun, etc.).
Actually, Stephanie Sheh has some relationship with Funimation. They reached out to her to reprise the role of Maya in Fafner: Heaven and Earth Movie, when she'd done the Fafner TV series with Geneon. Nevertheless, it's unlikely they'd branch out for a character that hasn't been cast, like Tiffa. There was a video game recently that seemed to handle Tiffa fairly well, IIRC. But theoretically speaking, how would you feel if somebody like Vic Mignogna got the Garrod Ran role? He's overexposed, but he's in the ballpark, maybe.

Funimation, all and all, has proven to be a very good anime company in recent years. They do mess up on small details here and there. I thought their in-house recasts on the Trigun and Fafner movies were lackluster, and they mid-pronounced a few terms/names in the Fafner sequel, but it was more than serviceable. They did a great job with the new Evangelion movies and FMA:B. I'm actually in the minority, in that I have a good deal of respect for Ocean Group, but to each their own. As for Sentai, they're a bit odd. They have a lot of talent, but some of the directors, particularly Foster, really go out of their way to make fun of the script. Xam'd: Lost Memories has a some really great acting in it, for example, but there are at least three or four moments I noticed where they slipped in off-the-cuff dub bloopers or changed the script to mock something. I don't know why you would do that. Meanwhile, Sentai's Golgo 13 TV's dub has been ridiculously changed in a good number of episodes to turn it more into a Adult Swim Comedy-type production.

Anyway, I'm still glad that people are working this out, and re-releases shouldn't be a problem.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Dark Duel » Tue May 28, 2013 10:24 pm

LightningCount wrote:theoretically speaking, how would you feel if somebody like Vic Mignogna got the Garrod Ran role? He's overexposed, but he's in the ballpark, maybe.
You know, I can TOTALLY imagine Vic as Garrod. But that's not at all what this discussion's mainly about.

Personally, I have been satisfied with most everything I've seen from Funimation. I honestly think they did a great job with the FMA dub, and the Fafner movie was pretty good - though I AM miffed that they changed Kazuki's VA, though the guy they got sounds close enough.
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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by Baund Doc » Tue May 28, 2013 11:05 pm

I can't remember which article I read on Animenation's "Ask John" column, but he mentioned how unlikely it would be for the Gundam series to get a license rescue, because Sunrise had a specific deal with Bandai or something like that.

Also would it impossible to get ZZ licensed. I know it's one of the least liked series of the UC timeline, but the fact that Bandai decided to skip it and go straight to Char's Counterattack, left some unanswered questions to fans of who may not have been aware of the series like "what happened to Haman, did she just disappear"? In retrospect if you just the movies that may sorta wrap up the issue, unless you go by the original series. Or is it too old to actually license?

Edit:
Also it seems like Sunrise is okay with foreign buyers importing their Gundam titles, since they've been releasing the AGE series with english subtitles.
Last edited by Baund Doc on Wed May 29, 2013 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sunrise in talks for more license rescues!

Post by JacobYBM » Wed May 29, 2013 1:13 am

bullethead wrote:
JacobYBM wrote:I'm hoping FUNimation doesn't receive the licenses. Their practice of removing the original credits and title cards leaves me feeling rather nonplused.
Huh? If you're referring to the stuff they put on Toonami, they have to do that to make room for ads.
No, for the home video releases.

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