Zeta Define

[harotype]

So can we talk about this? Anyone managed to read some yet?

I was pleasantly surprised by some of the changes in the first volume, like Kamille actually showing a degree more maturity and sensitivity (shocking, I know). And it may actually succeed in making me like Fa (which only an episode or two of ZZ has managed thus far).

I'm poised to like it far more than Origin, but then I loved MSG much more than Z.

Also, this is Kitazume. ZZ character designer, yes, but also the man who put Haman in pigtails...

[HellCat]

I've never really cared for the style of this and CDA which seems to amount to 'The world is full of curvy, toned women and either creepy old men or handsome young men'.

[ShadowCell]

wait, you mean it's not?

MANGA YOU HAVE LIED TO ME

[harotype]

Well, there's Bright, too.

And creepy young men! (Jerid and co!)

But yeah, while I liked Bright and Fa running away to the AEUG with Kamille and the Mk-II, I'm not sure I can lend credence to a world where Emma Sheen apparently no longer wears pants.

(On the other, other hand, if Z cast members are now notably less emotionally-retarded than in Tomino-verse, even partly due to Kitazume's need for fanservice [Emma lets Kamille cry all over her, Reccoa is getting 'significant adult attention' from Char, Fa strips to her underwear trying to prove her maturity and comfort Kamille], I'm not sure it's such a bad thing...?)

[bullethead]

If they decide to animate this, I really hope they tone down the fanservice and give Emma her pants back. As long as it doesn't go too crazy with the "Federation is run by dicks" stuff, it'll be okay.

I'm not too sure about its mecha retcons though.

[balofo]

The Rei Shiki is supposed to evolve and get upgrades as the story goes, it's third phase will be the golden coated Hyaku Shiki

[Deacon Blues]

The story will all go downhill (not that it isn't already) once Haman appears and starts emoing out for Char like in CDA.

[harotype]

The story will all go downhill (not that it isn't already) once Haman appears and starts emoing out for Char like in CDA.

Relax, Deacky, we get Beltochika showing up and doing her number over Amuro long before that. And if they try to tone her down (à la the movies or Day After Tomorrow), that's no fun.

The story can't go downhill yet; the MSG cast isn't back!

And Original Zeta turns into an angst-and-darkness slog once Haman shows up anyway...

[Xenosynth]

I think I'd prefer an 'angst and darkness slog' over having repectable characters get downgraded by silly tropes. If that really happens with Haman... that's just pretty damn bad. Again, I'd rather have angsty Kamille and dark story over having a respectable female character get all emo over her old crush. I mean, we had subtle hints about her and Char in Zeta, but.... yeah. The way Deacon is putting it, I'd have to imagine it's pretty bad in Z-Define.

[YazanGable]

So...looking through the raws, am I misreading the situation here, or did Kitazume decide to have the Titans try to rape Fa?

That said, even outside of that, another vote for the grievance he's really shoehorning in some of the fanservice here.

[harotype]

To quote my friend: "well of course, she's a girl, it's standard operating procedure to take advantage of her vulnerability by sexualizing it; do you not know how prisons work or something, sheesh"

I think Fa says that they just took all her clothes to interrogate her, but obviously that was bad enough... when she's crying she says something like "I didn't do anything; why would they do something that horrible?"

Speaking as a girl, I thought it was a pretty good artistic decision by Kitazume, and really not a fanservice-y thing. It would have fit well in the show if they'd been going for the gut-punch off the bat.

I guess the "Defining" question is how well the fanservice IS going to balance with the more emotionally-open and reciprocal tone Kitazume seems to be trying to set.

I'm still willing to forgive him a couple of gratuitous bathhouse scenes or whatever compared to the hentai proportions the "Day After Tomorrow" guy felt the need to give every. single. woman. in there.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Emma lets Kamille cry all over her,

That's not right, shouldn't she be slapping him? Or at least an inspiring speech?

Reccoa is getting 'significant adult attention' from Char,

I suppose it could be argued that even if she'd been getting what she wanted from Char she might have defected from the AEUG anyway...

Fa strips to her underwear trying to prove her maturity and comfort Kamille], I'm not sure it's such a bad thing...?)

Yeah... no.... just... no. So the best way to prove you're a mature woman is to strip? Well, I guess it depends on what type of maturity she was trying to prove....

[harotype]

Emma lets Kamille cry all over her,

That's not right, shouldn't she be slapping him? Or at least an inspiring speech?

Well, the point of this thread (and the manga) is "what's different from the show…"
Like Emma. Without pants.

Reccoa is getting 'significant adult attention' from Char,
I suppose it could be argued that even if she'd been getting what she wanted from Char she might have defected from the AEUG anyway…

It's still Char. And Reccoa. They're both plenty screwed up enough to not make this work, whatever they're doing off-duty. (the kind of attention she really wants is love, not sex, and she is definitely barking up the wrong alley with the wrong guy there.)

Fa strips to her underwear trying to prove her maturity and comfort Kamille], I'm not sure it's such a bad thing...?)
Yeah... no.... just... no. So the best way to prove you're a mature woman is to strip? Well, I guess it depends on what type of maturity she was trying to prove....

Actually, if you're trying to prove "I'M NOT A CHILD I HAVE THE MATURITY TO COMFORT YOU SEE LOOK AT MY BODY", yeah, it pretty much covers all bases. I don't know, I give her more points for that than chasing the kids in the corridor topless and slapping Kamille when he ogles her open bathrobe. It's a pretty direct contrast to the show where she only finds out his parents are dead after the fact, says that she doesn't know what to do because she's still a child herself, and then runs away crying noisily in what becomes an endless pattern.
(In Define, for the record, he pushes her away and knocks her on her rear end post-haste, so he wasn't anymore impressed than you. I'm not sure whether this was before or after Emma let him snot all over her generous, confiding bosom. With no pants. )

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious. I guess what I could say my reaction was is that I don't feel Gundam needs to cram fanservice into their all their stuff.

And yes, Emma should haz pants.

[harotype]

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious.

See, you need more emoticons for that.

I guess what I could say my reaction was is that I don't feel Gundam needs to cram fanservice into their all their stuff.

Yeah, except they've been doing it since the beginning, or did Mirai, Sayla, Frau, and Char all not have nekkid scenes in 0079. However much Tomino wants to pretend that episode Amuro spent almost entirely in his underwear doesn't exist, it does. Or did. And Lt. Matilda was admittedly-tough-competent-but-basically-walking fanservice acknowledged as such in-show.

Why stop now?

(You don't feel Gundam needs to cram more, *pointless* fanservice in, right?)

And yes, Emma should haz pants.

I really don't see how pants would somehow hinder her ability to be more cuddly, Kitazume…

Maybe it's just part of the observation period, and the AEUG wlll give her pants once she proves herself to be trustworthy.

(The funny thing is, she's basically wearing Fa's uniform in green, whereas Fa is wearing some sort of modified EF-sleeveless thingy.)

As weird and as much of an adjustment as it is, though, I'm not prepared to take Emma's lacking-pants as a total dealbreaker for ZGD. Yet.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Well, I wasn't being entirely serious.

See, you need more emoticons for that.

Yeah, I probably should have done that.

(You don't feel Gundam needs to cram more, *pointless* fanservice in, right?)

Yeah, now that I read the previous post, that is what I meant to say, yes.

Maybe it's just part of the observation period, and the AEUG wlll give her pants once she proves herself to be trustworthy.

One could hope.

[HellCat]

I liked that initially they made Emma wear a prison suit. In the show it was always daft how quickly she was trusted and made part of key plans. It's part of why I hate that 'Kamille, have you ever heard of Char Aznable?' scene. Three emotionally stunted 'adults' are sitting in judgement of the poor kid, including one whose been connected to the AEUG for a shorter time than him.