The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

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Angelo Sauper
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Angelo Sauper » Tue May 20, 2014 8:45 am

mobiusdiablo wrote:I'm still not sure if FF is a brainwashed Char (due to Lalah's line in the sub I watched) or just a programmed clone, but I feel that if anyone was out of character in this episode, it was this guy. It became prevalent to me when the most trippy Newtype visions began, with FF seemingly taking Banagher back through time. From what I got from it, apparently Full Frontal was... a nihilist? "We're all doomed to fade into nothingness, so why bother trying to cling to the hope of the future?" By that logic, wouldn't that make him a complete hypocrite with his Side Co-Prosperity Sphere plan or whatever? Y'know, the one he was ready to clap Syam and possibly Minerva and Banagher for not a few minutes earlier? Not to mention his nonsense about being a vessel? I think that really weakened his character, which had been built up for quite some time.
There's nothing wrong with a character being hypocritical, a lot of people are hypocritical, especially the "villains" in our real world. Whether he was created to fulfil the role of Char or is truly the physical body of Char, he would still have continually contemplated his existence, we can only contemplate on the conclusions he came to.

He claims to have been emptied (or "released") and passed through madness. As with everything about him in the OVA, it's vague, and best left to our imaginations. Could he have been filled with the hope of spacenoids during the during the Axis Shock? Or are his claims of being a vessel simply metaphorical? I like to interpret it as a reflection of both the Axis Shock event and the transition from Char to Full Frontal.

On one hand we have Char disappearing in the confusion and madness of the Axis Shock event, and returning as the passionless Full Frontal, and on the other we have Full Frontal tackling with his existence and then coming to terms with it.

It may be the case that he was merely a puppet who felt it was his duty to lead Neo Zeon. Perhaps he sought for a new "release", if he achieved autonomy for spacenoids, then he would be able to die without regret.

One theme of the Neo Zeon faction was "Do we die in vain cursing the world, or do we keep fighting an endless war?" Char may have "died" in vain cursing the world, but he kept fighting until the end. Full Frontal would not give up either, so his decision was to continue fighting the indefinite war.

He does not have the passion of Char, it's quite possible that it's Char at his worst, and that's saying something. He retains all the subversive and harmful characteristics of Char, but he is more rational and does not have hope for humanity. That makes him much more dangerous and just as likely to sacrifice lives for his goals, even if his goals are worthless in grand scheme of existence.

In the end though, I believe Char's passions began to manifest inside of him, and they got the better of his blunt rationality. Full Frontal himself said that he could have destroyed the Unicorn and killed Banagher once they knew the location of the box, but he didn't. Perhaps he wanted to see the full potential of Banagher and the Unicorn.

It's up to the viewer to come to their own conclusions, but I don't he's a particularly inconsistent character.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Gundam420 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:34 am

I'd like to point out that he's referred to as artificial here. As for everyone saying Full Frontal tells Banagher to go do whatever after he's been "spirited away", how do we know that's not Char telling him that?
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Victorize » Tue May 20, 2014 11:59 am

Gundam420 wrote:I'd like to point out that he's referred to as artificial here. As for everyone saying Full Frontal tells Banagher to go do whatever after he's been "spirited away", how do we know that's not Char telling him that?
I assumed when watching that it WAS Char, since it seemed pretty heavily implied that Full Frontal was literally an empty (cloned? I thought I'd heard before this episode that he was physically altered to look like Char, not a clone) vessel cyber-newtyped to channel Char's ghost. Which is why when Angelo found FF he was more brain-dead than Kamille.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by HellCat » Tue May 20, 2014 12:11 pm

My way of viewing it (and I think I've said this before) is that Casval is Char the man while Frontal is Char the meme. He kind of acts like you'd expect someone programmed by second hand accounts of the famous man, doing stuff like dropping wry comments and never really losing his cool. I think the latter is most telling because although Char was one cool cat, he could get in over his head and show emotion when he was unhappy/surprised. Frontal just keeps going like a wind up toy and I actually find it difficult to call him a character since throughtout the series I found him to just be a designated antagonist to bring back memories in story and out of the real Char and give Banagher a villain he and Unicorn could ultimately beat up.

I suppose the alternative would be to have him break down and start uttering his programme to steer him back on the path he was already on, but ultimately he's just kind of there. His role as someone without personal identity and a bold facsimile for Char is all he really had and it was lacking in a cast of superior characters.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by mobiusdiablo » Tue May 20, 2014 12:44 pm

Thanks for the replies, and I find it interesting that the OVA lets so many possibilities exist as to who Full Frontal is; personally I feel similar to Hellcat in that I don't think he WAS Char since I'd think if they had the real Char, why brainwash him into Full Frontal? The more I look back, the more I feel his nickname as the "Ghost of Char" is fitting because he might seem the same on the surface, but he doesn't have the same personality or substance that made Casaval "Char."

And, I agree that people can be hypocrites and still be good characters, but I can't help but feel that his nihilist views undermine everything he was working towards. It feels like it comes out of left field for me considering his actions from earlier in the series. It does go to suggest more that he isn't Char, as Char would never have that kind of bleak outlook for the future, but if he was a nihilist like that from day one, then why even bother trying to do the Side Co-Prosperity Plan? In his own paraphrased words, why cling to that hope when in the end it ultimately means nothing?

I guess one could view it as it paralleling how Minerva called him out on the mess and what it would cause - another One Year War with the Earth being repressed - but in the end that still is change, striving for a (subjectively) brighter/darker future for Space/Earth. If he were the nihilist he claims to be, then why even bother?

In the end, I know two things for certain.

First, whether or not Full Frontal was a brainwashed/off the deep end Char or not, both of them are deader than disco. I'd think the Newtype ghosts and Angelo's discovery of him made that clear.

Second, I feel that the revelations of this episode pertaining to Full Frontal weaken and undermine his character 'developed' from the previous episodes. Again, I just feel that while you can have a hypocrite as a good, strong character, the bombshell here flies against Full Frontal's previous characterization too much. Typically there's some sort of hint or clue along the way to suggest the hypocrite's... hypocrisy.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by domtropen » Tue May 20, 2014 3:43 pm

Wondering one reason Marida isn't moving out of Banshee's line of fire is that she is trying to block the beam from destroying Nahel Argama? Does Kshatriya run out of all weapons by this point?

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by BrentD15 » Tue May 20, 2014 7:21 pm

domtropen wrote:Wondering one reason Marida isn't moving out of Banshee's line of fire is that she is trying to block the beam from destroying Nahel Argama? Does Kshatriya run out of all weapons by this point?
The Nahel Argama wasn't seen behind the Kshatriya.
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Angelo Sauper
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Angelo Sauper » Tue May 20, 2014 7:25 pm

mobiusdiablo wrote:And, I agree that people can be hypocrites and still be good characters, but I can't help but feel that his nihilist views undermine everything he was working towards.
Not really. If he felt the need to put his nihilist views into practice, they would undermine the plans, but because he kept them to himself, nothing was undermined.

In the novel he's a political puppet after all, he probably didn't even come up with plans for the co-prosperity sphere.
mobiusdiablo wrote:It feels like it comes out of left field for me considering his actions from earlier in the series. It does go to suggest more that he isn't Char, as Char would never have that kind of bleak outlook for the future, but if he was a nihilist like that from day one, then why even bother trying to do the Side Co-Prosperity Plan? In his own paraphrased words, why cling to that hope when in the end it ultimately means nothing?


We never see Full Frontal emotive about the issue of the co-prosperity sphere. The plan is more practical than any of Char's, and like I said, it was probably planned by his "handlers". Though in the OVA it's equally plausible he was working on his own, but felt it was his duty to carry out the role of revolutionary leader.
mobiusdiablo wrote:I guess one could view it as it paralleling how Minerva called him out on the mess and what it would cause - another One Year War with the Earth being repressed - but in the end that still is change, striving for a (subjectively) brighter/darker future for Space/Earth. If he were the nihilist he claims to be, then why even bother?
I didn't see Full Frontal really "striving" for anything. I only ever saw him show satisfaction at having his plan go the way he wanted it to. He was never shown being enthused about the idea of a co-prosperity sphere, we never saw him express regret or sadness at death, we rarely see him express any emotion at all. It's not a surprise to me that such a passionless person has little faith in humanity to make a more meaningful existence.

I'm sure there are lots of nihilists that go on living regardless of their beliefs. They probably get up each morning and go and do whatever they do despite the fact there's no inherent meaning to being alive and no end goal.

tl:dr I think you're too stuck on the idea that Nihilism amounts to passiveness, which is probably not the case.

On a different topic, I do like how Laplace's Demon was alluded to in the novel, and how the theme of determinism was included in the series. Vicious cycles of hatred, and the belief that "nothing will change".

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Mythgarr » Tue May 20, 2014 9:31 pm

domtropen wrote:Wondering one reason Marida isn't moving out of Banshee's line of fire is that she is trying to block the beam from destroying Nahel Argama? Does Kshatriya run out of all weapons by this point?
She is simply sacrificing herself in order to open Riddhe's eyes (as usual in Gundam UC universe, a girl has to die to awaken the pilot...)
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by AmuroNT1 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:44 pm

The Universal Century, the only place where door locks are shaped like girlfriends' corpses.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by latenlazy » Wed May 21, 2014 5:24 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:The Universal Century, the only place where door locks are shaped like girlfriends' corpses.
This line should be memorialized. You get a prize for this one.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by BrentD15 » Wed May 21, 2014 7:35 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:The Universal Century, the only place where door locks are shaped like girlfriends' corpses.
That's Sacrificial Lover Rehash Syndrome (SLRS) in a nutshell. :lol: :cry:
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by domtropen » Wed May 21, 2014 12:52 pm

Mythgarr wrote:
domtropen wrote:Wondering one reason Marida isn't moving out of Banshee's line of fire is that she is trying to block the beam from destroying Nahel Argama? Does Kshatriya run out of all weapons by this point?
She is simply sacrificing herself in order to open Riddhe's eyes (as usual in Gundam UC universe, a girl has to die to awaken the pilot...)
Thanks. I wonder since before that the way the movie pan when Minerva tried to communicate with Riddhe the NT way it zoomed from Nahel Argama to the fight screen, making it look like Banshee fight is sorta in line with the back of Nahel Argama. Also the screen before the shooting it looked like Riddhe actually aim at Minerva at the ship.

Also is the two voices in Banshee during the screen when Riddhe throws up etc. voice of Alberto and Zinnermann?

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Heaven Piercing Man » Wed May 21, 2014 3:32 pm

Might be a reference to the novel, where Riddhe IS trying to attack the Nahel Argama and Marida sacrifices herself in typical Lalah fashion.

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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Amion » Wed May 21, 2014 9:06 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote:The Universal Century, the only place where door locks are shaped like girlfriends' corpses.
Now this quote is just perfect for UC, or heck, Gundam in general.

I personally find Angelo's talk about FF to be pretty intriguing and I agree with his ideas.

To clarify, I myself could very easily be classified as a nihiliist, or at least leaned that way for a time. I can say that I was certainly not active, just that I was unhappy. I think like nearly everything, there's levels of nihilism. FF just wasn't quite at the "sit in a corner and pout" phase, just at the phase that in the end, neither his nor Banager's plans mattered in the long run, so why bother preaching?

To be honest, my take now after reading all these posts is that Full Frontal's whole point so far was that he indeed was just a lifeless individual. He hasn't a personality because he wasn't meant to and really DOESN'T have one. As far as Char Clones go, I think he was done well. But only because in his own words, he is not a human being, but an image. Maybe at the end, what pieces of true personality taking shape found only despair, and hence the vision of the future.

Just some thoughts, in the end it may be bad writing, but I enjoyed it and it brings for good contemplation.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu May 22, 2014 2:01 pm

I wouldn't say Gundam in general...after all, most of the AUs are pretty nice to girlfriends.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Amion » Thu May 22, 2014 7:41 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote:I wouldn't say Gundam in general...after all, most of the AUs are pretty nice to girlfriends.
Stella, Allenby, Flay, Anew, Yurin L'Ciel, Shanalua, Lu, and technically Soche (I think it's her name) from Turn A, would all like to have a word with you. :P
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu May 22, 2014 7:51 pm

Only a few of those actually died, plus Stella wasn't a girlfriend. And I wasn't really considering AGE in the equation due to the way its writers were chewed out by the female staff for not getting women.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Thu May 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Well, just got around to watching the last episode. It was... bizarre, is the only word that comes to mind. There was just a whole bunch of really weird stuff that went on without any real attempt to explain it. UC Gundam's always had a bit of newtype magic involved in its plot, but this is the first time it's felt like actual magic, rather than a semi-plausible collusion of psychic power and fictional pseudoscience. I'm used to Gundam using crazy visuals to represent mostly-mental psychic phenomenon, but Unicorn 7 took those crazy visuals, made them even crazier, and then had them actually happening instead of being symbolic. It felt more like I was watching Evangelion than Gundam.
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Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Deathzealot » Thu May 22, 2014 8:09 pm

Honestly a friend just pointed out that the whole ending fist fight between Unicorn and Neo-Zeon reminded him Gurren Laggan and I think he was quite correct for it did remind me something when I saw it first.

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