The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

The place to discuss anything relating to anime or manga.
Locked
User avatar
ShadowCell
Moderator
Posts: 5834
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:59 pm
Location: California
Contact:

The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by ShadowCell » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:40 pm

you guys know the drill. use the spoiler tags, don't be douchenozzles, etc

page 30 of the previous thread

User avatar
Compass
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:29 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Compass » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:16 am

Is there significance to having Full Frontal removing his mask in this episode? Do people still not believe he looks exactly like Char? Also:
Spoiler
Show
How does Full Frontal witness the CCA events? Is he actually alive during this time as a clone? Not familiar with Full Frontal's background at this period, but know he is a clone
Watching: Black Bullet, The World is Still Beautiful, Brynhildr in the Darkness, Captain Earth, The Irregular at Magic High School
Quick Picks that ended Last Season: Gundam Build Fighters!!! Buddy Complex

User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4781
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Dark Duel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:51 pm

I have never read the novel so I don't know the details, but IIRC
Spoiler
Show
He was a part of Char's Second Neo-Zeon, IIRC piloting a Geara Doga, and he did witness firsthand the events of that war, including the whole psychoframe weirdness.
They made him a Char after that.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Dendrobium Stamen
Posts: 570
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:22 pm
Location: Armoury One, L4.
Contact:

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Dendrobium Stamen » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:00 pm

So, episode 6. Only taken us... three years to get here, and I seem to recall reading somewhere round here that episode 7 is another full year away? No rush, clearly...

...But still. I liked this one, now we're reaching the closing overs of this particular match (cricket humour; plays best in the parts of the Old Empire that took to the game, I guess :roll: ). And there were quite a few moments to like, too. Not entirely sure if the end of episode 5 was an "edited highlights" of the General Revil battle, or if the opening of this episode was a "Director's Cut" of said battle; either way, it was impressive stuff, an altogether rather enjoyable few minutes of the high-definition mecha-porn that are Unicorn's combat scenes.

Full Frontal's plan... does make sense. From what little I remember of my bachelor's in economics - and it's not much - it's a fairly simple scheme, so simple it does raise the awkward continuity question of "why didn't Char just do this, instead of the big Axis kerfuffle?" From the monologue on Nahel Argama's bridge, it sounds like Earth in UC 0096 is incapable of supporting what is an extremely reduced population, compared to AD 2013 - the various wars of the preceding two decades sound to have pushed the planet beyond breaking point, and imports from the colonies are acting as a life-support system.

As Full Frontal suggests, the Sides could commit a passive form of genocide simply by refusing to trade with Earth - though in the short term they'd need a fairly powerful military reserve, supported by the Republic of Zeon, to stop the Federation deploying the Space Force to simply seize goods from the Sides. From what we've seen of the Federation, they do seem awfully willing to commit their resources toward the Space Force, what with the construction of General Revil, deployment of the ReZEL and new Jegan variants (including the Jesta), expansion of Londo Bell (I believe Nahel Argama is their 4th Squadron?)... frankly, had Char taken this approach rather than the more theatrical drop-a-huge-thing-on-Earth-and-fight-Amuro-one-last-time scheme he'd concocted three years ago, F91 and Victory would be redundant, and CCA would have played out more like a Patlabor film - not that that's a bad thing.

Other than that, generally an enjoyable episode, the conclusion has me eager for the next episode, where we'll get our Exciting Conclusion, and the Banshee-vs.-Unicorn battle royale.

One question does linger, not sure if I missed something in this episode or not: has Riddhe been turned into a Cyber-Newtype? He seemed... different, and his helmet in Banshee Norn's cockpit had wires connecting to the frame. Plus, with it being an MS designed for Newtypes, that does raise the question of whether he'd be able to operate it effectively without the Cyber-Newtype process...

So: roll on 2014, and episode 7!
"Trust me, I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer.
A Wind Raging Through, a Destiny sidestory.

Kratos
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: BC

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Kratos » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:24 pm

Regarding Riddhe, I actually think he's always been a natural Newtype. He's had Newtype flash-like moments in other episodes, and he's certainly displayed other Newtype-esque tendencies (*coughinstantandinexplicablystrongattractiontoMinevacough*).

I mean, it's either that, or yeah - Cyber-Newtype. Because at the end of the day, I doubt somebody who isn't a Newtype of some sort could pilot an RX-0 machine and handle its NT-D.
"The beast of opportunity finds its master and soars through a shaken cosmos"

latenlazy
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:30 am

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by latenlazy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:42 am

Dendrobium Stamen wrote:So, episode 6. Only taken us... three years to get here, and I seem to recall reading somewhere round here that episode 7 is another full year away? No rush, clearly...

...But still. I liked this one, now we're reaching the closing overs of this particular match (cricket humour; plays best in the parts of the Old Empire that took to the game, I guess :roll: ). And there were quite a few moments to like, too. Not entirely sure if the end of episode 5 was an "edited highlights" of the General Revil battle, or if the opening of this episode was a "Director's Cut" of said battle; either way, it was impressive stuff, an altogether rather enjoyable few minutes of the high-definition mecha-porn that are Unicorn's combat scenes.

Full Frontal's plan... does make sense. From what little I remember of my bachelor's in economics - and it's not much - it's a fairly simple scheme, so simple it does raise the awkward continuity question of "why didn't Char just do this, instead of the big Axis kerfuffle?" From the monologue on Nahel Argama's bridge, it sounds like Earth in UC 0096 is incapable of supporting what is an extremely reduced population, compared to AD 2013 - the various wars of the preceding two decades sound to have pushed the planet beyond breaking point, and imports from the colonies are acting as a life-support system.

As Full Frontal suggests, the Sides could commit a passive form of genocide simply by refusing to trade with Earth - though in the short term they'd need a fairly powerful military reserve, supported by the Republic of Zeon, to stop the Federation deploying the Space Force to simply seize goods from the Sides. From what we've seen of the Federation, they do seem awfully willing to commit their resources toward the Space Force, what with the construction of General Revil, deployment of the ReZEL and new Jegan variants (including the Jesta), expansion of Londo Bell (I believe Nahel Argama is their 4th Squadron?)... frankly, had Char taken this approach rather than the more theatrical drop-a-huge-thing-on-Earth-and-fight-Amuro-one-last-time scheme he'd concocted three years ago, F91 and Victory would be redundant, and CCA would have played out more like a Patlabor film - not that that's a bad thing.

Other than that, generally an enjoyable episode, the conclusion has me eager for the next episode, where we'll get our Exciting Conclusion, and the Banshee-vs.-Unicorn battle royale.

One question does linger, not sure if I missed something in this episode or not: has Riddhe been turned into a Cyber-Newtype? He seemed... different, and his helmet in Banshee Norn's cockpit had wires connecting to the frame. Plus, with it being an MS designed for Newtypes, that does raise the question of whether he'd be able to operate it effectively without the Cyber-Newtype process...

So: roll on 2014, and episode 7!
I can see two reasons why. The first is that Char was not merely trying to fight a war of independence, but was trying to fulfill an ideological goal. Part of that goal was to drive everyone into space, perhaps in part to account for the possibility that those left on Earth would retaliate (waging war on the colonies to reappropriate them for their own economic needs).

The second is that perhaps it took time for economic capacity to shift towards the colonies. We know anecdotally that the Earth was environmentally strained from the beginning of UC, but even then it's hard to imagine the Earth's capacity to support human life would drop to below a population of 2 billion. The colony drops starting from the one year war are probably largely responsible for such a diminished number. It would take time for economic capacity to both recover from the constant wars and the movement of activity from the Earth to the colonies. It's possible that at the time Char was planning his rebellion, such a plan would have been unfeasible. After all, Full Frontal himself is trying acquire the box to blackmail for more time to make such a spacenoid co-prosperity sphere happen.

Sulendil Zeta
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:01 am
Location: Malaysia

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Sulendil Zeta » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:22 am

Also, since when Char Aznable is the first person you looked for when we're talking about logical actions/plans that make sense? :P Even till today, we're still arguing about what Char really want to accomplish back then in the Second Neo Zeon War (heck, we even have a topic here in Mechatalk that discuss about the very same topic).

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Amion » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:30 pm

From what I can tell, the prevailing arguments about Char are that he did the whole thing for his own selfish feud with Amuro, or that he was doing it for the very reasons he states over and over to Amuro. Seriously, it's a little of both, but ultimately neither side is going to agree or listen to reason.

The former will always state that Char was doing the whole thing for no other reason than to get back at Amuro, despite there being no evidence for this being his only motive.

The latter will not accept that his actions were at least in part motivated by this vendetta against Amuro.

As far as I can see, Char was a complicated character who for numerous reasons or excuses had decided that the Earth needed to be rendered uninhabitable and staged the war for that expressed purpose, but became distracted and even allowed some of his actions to be lead by his hatred and desire to battle Amuro one last time in the finale of his own creation. He's a theatrical character, Haman says it in Zeta, so this type of set up is consistent with his character.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

User avatar
BrentD15
Posts: 898
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:36 am

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by BrentD15 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:13 pm

Amion wrote:As far as I can see, Char was a complicated character who for numerous reasons or excuses had decided that the Earth needed to be rendered uninhabitable and staged the war for that expressed purpose, but became distracted and even allowed some of his actions to be lead by his hatred and desire to battle Amuro one last time in the finale of his own creation. He's a theatrical character, Haman says it in Zeta, so this type of set up is consistent with his character.
Probably the best explanation I've seen. :)
"To you who will watch, I offer a heart filled with gratitude." -Yoshiyuki Tomino, Gundam Reconguista in G, Episode 25

User avatar
Chris
Administrator
Posts: 4677
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:20 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Chris » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:47 pm

Dendrobium Stamen wrote:Full Frontal's plan... does make sense. From what little I remember of my bachelor's in economics - and it's not much - it's a fairly simple scheme, so simple it does raise the awkward continuity question of "why didn't Char just do this, instead of the big Axis kerfuffle?"
There have been some good explanations posted above, but I'll add to them something that hasn't been mentioned. Full Frontal's plan would take years or perhaps decades to achieve success, and its effects wouldn't be immediately noticeable. By initiating a major crisis like dropping Axis on Earth to make it uninhabitable, Char forces the Federation to make immediate and drastic changes. It fits with his dramatic nature and his impatience over the lack of any real change following the devastation of the OYW and subsequent conflicts.
"What did catch my eye, however, was a podcast named Gundamn!. At first I thought it was a podcast about firearms and [rednecks] discussing their collection, but after looking at the episode titles I was sold." - Xhavalor

PSN: amuromsz006
Nintendo Network: mariomsz006

User avatar
Brave Fencer Kirby
Posts: 1309
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:57 pm

I have to say that I find the idea of Earth being unable to feed two billion people fairly ridiculous when the setting has cheap fusion power, materials science capable of producing 20 meter humanoid combat vehicles, and rocketry advanced to the point where a trip to Earth orbit is about as notable as a flight on a 747. The planet is already supporting 7 billion people right now -- many in not particularly high-tech areas of the world. Yes, UC Earth has been hit by large falling objects more than once, but I find it unlikely in the extreme that they have the technology to feed however many billion people in space, but wouldn't be able to feed two billion on Earth. If absolutely nothing else, just build some colony agriculture blocks (adapted for natural gravity instead of spin gravity) on the planet's surface somewhere. It may not be economically ideal, if the Sides already have agricultural blocks up and running a surplus, but if the alternative is famine then I think the Federation could make it happen.

Incidentally, I don't know if this has been pointed out before or not (I was avoiding the thread until I had a chance to see the newest episode for myself), but Full Frontal's "Side Co-Prosperity Sphere", while it sounds good in a vacuum, is clearly a reference to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere created by Japan during WWII. According to the propaganda, it was about making East Asia a global economic bloc that could stand equal to North America, Europe, and Russia, to the benefit of all its members. In reality, it was a way to force the puppet governments of Japanese-conquered nations into economic vassalage to Japan. It's pretty clear the Full Frontal's plan is less "bring the spacenoids together to wield their economic might against the Earth Federation" and more "rule the Earth Sphere with an iron fist, but ignore Earth because the last three times we tried to deal with them militarily it ended badly for us".
Fighting evil so you don't have to!

domino
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:37 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by domino » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:01 pm

BrentD15 wrote:
Amion wrote:As far as I can see, Char was a complicated character who for numerous reasons or excuses had decided that the Earth needed to be rendered uninhabitable and staged the war for that expressed purpose, but became distracted and even allowed some of his actions to be lead by his hatred and desire to battle Amuro one last time in the finale of his own creation. He's a theatrical character, Haman says it in Zeta, so this type of set up is consistent with his character.
Probably the best explanation I've seen. :)
This makes sense to me as well. After all, during the Battle of A Baoa Qu, Char basically did the EXACT same thing as he did while dropping Axis: abandon his entire squad and mission as soon as he saw Amuro!

latenlazy
Posts: 1223
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:30 am

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by latenlazy » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:22 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:I have to say that I find the idea of Earth being unable to feed two billion people fairly ridiculous when the setting has cheap fusion power, materials science capable of producing 20 meter humanoid combat vehicles, and rocketry advanced to the point where a trip to Earth orbit is about as notable as a flight on a 747. The planet is already supporting 7 billion people right now -- many in not particularly high-tech areas of the world. Yes, UC Earth has been hit by large falling objects more than once, but I find it unlikely in the extreme that they have the technology to feed however many billion people in space, but wouldn't be able to feed two billion on Earth. If absolutely nothing else, just build some colony agriculture blocks (adapted for natural gravity instead of spin gravity) on the planet's surface somewhere. It may not be economically ideal, if the Sides already have agricultural blocks up and running a surplus, but if the alternative is famine then I think the Federation could make it happen.

Incidentally, I don't know if this has been pointed out before or not (I was avoiding the thread until I had a chance to see the newest episode for myself), but Full Frontal's "Side Co-Prosperity Sphere", while it sounds good in a vacuum, is clearly a reference to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere created by Japan during WWII. According to the propaganda, it was about making East Asia a global economic bloc that could stand equal to North America, Europe, and Russia, to the benefit of all its members. In reality, it was a way to force the puppet governments of Japanese-conquered nations into economic vassalage to Japan. It's pretty clear the Full Frontal's plan is less "bring the spacenoids together to wield their economic might against the Earth Federation" and more "rule the Earth Sphere with an iron fist, but ignore Earth because the last three times we tried to deal with them militarily it ended badly for us".
Well, from what I got in episode 6, the Earth HAS been able to feed more than 2 billion people, just not by itself. Full Frontal didn't say the Earth's current population was limited to 2 billion, but that that would be the population it could theoretically hold if the colonies embargoed the Earth. Mineva does mention after all that the Earthnoids would adapt (perhaps in the way you suggested), and then retaliate, thereby continuing conflict in the history of man.

If we assume no expensive adaptations though it's entirely feasible to imagine that Earth's natural limitations have been reduced to supporting only 2 billion people. The biggest problem I see is unstable climate limiting the number of arable land and the length of growing seasons, but there are other factors to consider such as pollution, depleted soil, and diminished mineral reserves (I imagine that most raw materials are now derived from space rocks). The latter* point should be significant, as it would limit the Earth's capacity to build new infrastructure.
Last edited by latenlazy on Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Amion » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:26 pm

domino wrote:
BrentD15 wrote:
Amion wrote:As far as I can see, Char was a complicated character who for numerous reasons or excuses had decided that the Earth needed to be rendered uninhabitable and staged the war for that expressed purpose, but became distracted and even allowed some of his actions to be lead by his hatred and desire to battle Amuro one last time in the finale of his own creation. He's a theatrical character, Haman says it in Zeta, so this type of set up is consistent with his character.
Probably the best explanation I've seen. :)
This makes sense to me as well. After all, during the Battle of A Baoa Qu, Char basically did the EXACT same thing as he did while dropping Axis: abandon his entire squad and mission as soon as he saw Amuro!
Thank you, reading all nine pages of that confounded thread devoted to his psychoanalysis paid off it seems.

And Chris' point was one I had yet to think of but makes absolute sense. It also shows the difference between Char and Full Frontal. He may be a clone of Char, but Frontal is very calm and controlled, not passionate like Mineva tells him Char used to be.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

toysdream
Posts: 3250
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by toysdream » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:32 pm

Chris wrote:There have been some good explanations posted above, but I'll add to them something that hasn't been mentioned. Full Frontal's plan would take years or perhaps decades to achieve success, and its effects wouldn't be immediately noticeable. By initiating a major crisis like dropping Axis on Earth to make it uninhabitable, Char forces the Federation to make immediate and drastic changes. It fits with his dramatic nature and his impatience over the lack of any real change following the devastation of the OYW and subsequent conflicts.
On the other hand, Char's plan would be irreversible; no matter what happens to Char or Neo Zeon after that, humanity still has to pack up and leave Earth. Whereas Frontal's scheme requires years and years of political manipulation and gamesmanship among the colony governments, with the threat of the magical Box merely providing political cover for his imaginary coalition; what actually ends up happening depends entirely on the politicians who'll be implementing this long-term plan.

In the context of the novels, where there are other interests sponsoring and supporting the Sleeves, that makes a certain amount of sense. But this aspect really hasn't come up in the animation at all, so I don't know if it still applies here. I certainly can't imagine the classic Char coming up with a master plan which leaves everything up to deal-cutting between fat-cat politicians. :-)

-- Mark

Kratos
Posts: 1100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:57 pm
Location: BC

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Kratos » Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:51 pm

I always got the implication that the Sleeves would be pulling the politicians' strings - I don't think it needed to be outright stated. Clarity is always nice, but I don't think the lack of mention of the Sleeves' specific supporters critically obfuscates the plan.
"The beast of opportunity finds its master and soars through a shaken cosmos"

User avatar
Andrew_Graruru
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:38 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Andrew_Graruru » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:05 pm

toysdream wrote: with the threat of the magical Box merely providing political cover for his imaginary coalition
It wouldn't be imaginary though, would it? To me it sounded like the Economic Bloc would be designed as a united Government to rival the Earth Federation, just with RoZ at the centre rather than Earth.
Check out my (awful) podcast. Anime Graruru.

toysdream
Posts: 3250
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:24 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by toysdream » Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Andrew_Graruru wrote:It wouldn't be imaginary though, would it? To me it sounded like the Economic Bloc would be designed as a united Government to rival the Earth Federation, just with RoZ at the centre rather than Earth.
But none of this exists yet. In the animation, it's not even clear whether Frontal has even talked to the Republic of Zeon about its leading role in setting up his fantasy football league version of a world government. This may be one of those cases where the anime writers are assuming that the target audience has already read the novels...

-- Mark

User avatar
Andrew_Graruru
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:38 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Andrew_Graruru » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:13 pm

toysdream wrote:
Andrew_Graruru wrote:It wouldn't be imaginary though, would it? To me it sounded like the Economic Bloc would be designed as a united Government to rival the Earth Federation, just with RoZ at the centre rather than Earth.
But none of this exists yet. In the animation, it's not even clear whether Frontal has even talked to the Republic of Zeon about its leading role in setting up his fantasy football league version of a world government. This may be one of those cases where the anime writers are assuming that the target audience has already read the novels...

-- Mark
That doesn't make it imaginary that makes it a plan. It would take time, but that it won't happen overnight doesn't make it invalid, and I think people who haven't read the novel (such as myself, and most others on the board) have actually been fairly receptive towards this particular plotline.
Check out my (awful) podcast. Anime Graruru.

User avatar
Amion
Posts: 2167
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Re: The Official Gundam Unicorn Anime Thread Mk VI

Post by Amion » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:16 pm

It still carries enough credence with me, at least. Though my ideas on how economics work are not fully worked into a proper thesis, and dangerously skirt along the borderline of economic political policy.

So perhaps, the writers just assumes viewers will take Frontal's plan at face value and not question it. Just enjoy the masked man and mobile suits tearing each other apart.

After all, his plan sounds more plausible than psychics bringing peace to mankind. :D
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.

Locked