The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Silver_August » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:59 pm

Yah..I mean, I did some "research" and went to MAHQs reviews of the episodes of the anime to see exactly how far spread out the events of the Origin are compared to the manga and it was like O.o damn, feels like Ramba Ral was in MSG ALOT longer then he was in Origin

In Origin he just kinda shows up after the rally, kicks their asses, then Amuro has a fit, runs into him in person and then they have their faithful encounter/rematch, then once again in person and he dies.

For me I felt just a lil bit let down that for all the hype I knew about this character, his involvement in the manga was limited to only 1 volume, though to be fair he does have a lasting impact
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and he does show up in Vol 5 seeing as its a prologue, so there's that too.
but Ryu and Matilda were both reoccurring characters, Ryu always have a presence in every action scene and Matilda being a refreshing pop=up because she always came when they needed a boost.. so it sucks seeing them go but their deaths do have wait since..yah I dunno much ABOUT them but I do care about them so...kudos, it makes the fact that our heroes ARE alive actually... I dunno how to phrase it, matter? Like not take it for granted I guess

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Kratos » Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:24 am

It should be noted that ORIGIN probably increases that sense by using original characters to ramp up the White Base death tally. Basically anybody who pilots a Guncannon or Guntank that isn't Kai, Hayato, Job John, or Ryu is an ORIGIN original (since there was only one of each machine in the series - though Job was a background crew member, not a pilot), and those officers interrogating Sayla were new too. It's a neat touch on Yas' part that makes the overall threat feel greater without changing the fate of established characters.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Silver_August » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:38 am

Yah that is a neat touch, I'm honestly so glad that I can read this and it doesn't feel like I'm reading a manga rendition of the anime, (which I never saw but you know what I mean) I can't tell what's new or old (based on minor details I know) and yeah I'm already starting to feel the whole brutality of war thing.

But yeah, the fact that in The Origin they have multiple copies of Cannon and Tank, and the 2 are actually better designed to truly seem like a linage towards the Gundam's development is cool too.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by HellCat » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:41 pm

Oddly fitting that my copy of volume 5 arrived today.

Via a quick look it's quite intriguing. Not sure if this is vacked by previous sources but it's interesting that Yas chose to show the father's of Char and Ramba as just as unhinged as the Zabis. Ral himself gets alot of amusing focus and we see the Zabis at possibly their closest before open war has them outright plotting against one another.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by denbo786 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:24 pm

Just got home now to see my copy of Origin arrived as well 47 roinin, so giving a quick flick through it. Dozle sounds very strange/different one min and the next he is back to classic Dozle, there are some strange spellings for the names of the respective sides but the tone of the translation seems to be in keeping with the style they have established up to now.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Deacon Blues » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:18 pm

Comic Walker has the first installment of Amuro 0082 up online. 0_o;

Someone is trying to attack Amuro now... (just like they were Sayla).

Full Color Origin is amazing!

Uragang is still alive and wants to murder Amuro. Hah!
Last edited by Deacon Blues on Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by balofo » Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:20 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:Comic Walker has the first installment of Amuro 0082 up online. 0_o;

Someone is trying to attack Amuro now... (just like they were Sayla).
If only there'd MS action in this spinoff...

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Kratos » Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:21 pm

Now, see, you mock fans who read mecha for story, but at times like this, it really pays off! :D

Anyways, that was interesting. I like that character threads are being continued and that the theme of "belonging" (always something that I felt was a major focus of MSG) is being touched on, and so far, the Federation doesn't seem too up in Amuro's business. It'll be neat to see where this goes.

Side note: I especially liked the direct comparison drawn between Zeon and Imperial Japan. I've always liked the comparison of "Federation=Modern Japan, Zeon=Imperial", though I suspect Yas might get a bit of flak from 2chan for this :lol:
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Zeonista » Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:51 am

Side note: I especially liked the direct comparison drawn between Zeon and Imperial Japan. I've always liked the comparison of "Federation=Modern Japan, Zeon=Imperial", though I suspect Yas might get a bit of flak from 2chan for this :lol:
I made a post about that same similarity a couple of years back and received a lot of flak about it because as everybody knows Zeon = Space Nazi. Now I get to point to the Yas man & say "See, he says so." :P
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Kratos » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:13 am

So it turns out that Vertical didn't translate the Amuro bit, and had no idea it was even being released in English until it was brought to their attention. The translation is quite solid and certainly doesn't feel like it was slapped together haphazardly, so I wonder who Kadokawa outsourced the translation/localization to?
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by excalibur2008 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:08 am

Zeonista wrote:
Side note: I especially liked the direct comparison drawn between Zeon and Imperial Japan. I've always liked the comparison of "Federation=Modern Japan, Zeon=Imperial", though I suspect Yas might get a bit of flak from 2chan for this :lol:
I made a post about that same similarity a couple of years back and received a lot of flak about it because as everybody knows Zeon = Space Nazi.
Except Zeon does have stuff in comon with Nazi Germany.

-both went from democratic governments to militaristic autocratic governments.
-they have similar looking flags.
-a preference for gassing civilians.
-both liked to spout off about being superior to the rest of humanity.
-both were led by guys that didn't mind and even justified committing mass murder for their twisted ideologies.

Then there is the whole comparing Gihren Zabi to Adoplh Hitler thing in a conversation where Gihren pretty much admits killing billions in the One Year War was actually part of his plan for putting the Earth Shpere under a dynastic dictatorship (aka the afore mentioned didn't mind and even justified committing mass murder for their twisted ideologies thing.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by excalibur2008 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:15 am

Silver_August wrote:Yah..I mean, I did some "research" and went to MAHQs reviews of the episodes of the anime to see exactly how far spread out the events of the Origin are compared to the manga and it was like O.o damn, feels like Ramba Ral was in MSG ALOT longer then he was in Origin

In Origin he just kinda shows up after the rally, kicks their asses, then Amuro has a fit, runs into him in person and then they have their faithful encounter/rematch, then once again in person and he dies.
From what I remember that's pretty much the gist of his arc on the show just spread out due to going off on tangents about what Kycilia Zabi and/or M'Quve are up to along with a few fights against random Zeon soldiers.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by HellCat » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:03 pm

excalibur2008 wrote:
Zeonista wrote:
Side note: I especially liked the direct comparison drawn between Zeon and Imperial Japan. I've always liked the comparison of "Federation=Modern Japan, Zeon=Imperial", though I suspect Yas might get a bit of flak from 2chan for this :lol:
I made a post about that same similarity a couple of years back and received a lot of flak about it because as everybody knows Zeon = Space Nazi.
Except Zeon does have stuff in comon with Nazi Germany.

-both went from democratic governments to militaristic autocratic governments.
-they have similar looking flags.
-a preference for gassing civilians.
-both liked to spout off about being superior to the rest of humanity.
-both were led by guys that didn't mind and even justified committing mass murder for their twisted ideologies.

Then there is the whole comparing Gihren Zabi to Adoplh Hitler thing in a conversation where Gihren pretty much admits killing billions in the One Year War was actually part of his plan for putting the Earth Shpere under a dynastic dictatorship (aka the afore mentioned didn't mind and even justified committing mass murder for their twisted ideologies thing.
I think perhaps this is simply a case where bits of both are an influence and it doesn't have to simply be one side or the other. A bit like that 'There are always men like you' scene in the Avengers. It's obviously connecting to Nazi Germany but also the fact that Nazi Germany wasn't the first or last tyrannical regime in human history.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Chris » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:12 pm

excalibur2008 wrote:
Silver_August wrote:Yah..I mean, I did some "research" and went to MAHQs reviews of the episodes of the anime to see exactly how far spread out the events of the Origin are compared to the manga and it was like O.o damn, feels like Ramba Ral was in MSG ALOT longer then he was in Origin

In Origin he just kinda shows up after the rally, kicks their asses, then Amuro has a fit, runs into him in person and then they have their faithful encounter/rematch, then once again in person and he dies.
From what I remember that's pretty much the gist of his arc on the show just spread out due to going off on tangents about what Kycilia Zabi and/or M'Quve are up to along with a few fights against random Zeon soldiers.
Correct. In the TV series, Ral's arc is stretched out by unrelated episodes detailing Amuro going home, the Wappa guys with the bombs, Doan's island and Amuro attacking the useless mine that Kycilia and M'Quve are at. The Origin just combines Ral's actual time into a continuous stream, but it's the same amount of screen/page time.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by RLZIII » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:13 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:Comic Walker has the first installment of Amuro 0082 up online. 0_o;

Someone is trying to attack Amuro now... (just like they were Sayla).

Full Color Origin is amazing!

Uragang is still alive and wants to murder Amuro. Hah!
Are they releasing all of The Origin in full color?

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Kratos » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:31 pm

excalibur2008 wrote:Except Zeon does have stuff in comon with Nazi Germany.
Sure. But, like HellCat said, Nazi Germany has a lot in common with any number of military dictatorships, and many of the big ones of the 20th century specifically are rather alike. But there are a number of reasons why I think Imperial Japan contributes more to Zeon than most assume.
-both went from democratic governments to militaristic autocratic governments.
So did Japan, which briefly flirted with democracy before the rise of militarism - in fact, the use of a previously benign state ideology to start justifying military aggression against neighbours more closely resembles Imperial Japan than Nazi Germany. The Nazis used ideology to justify their actions, sure, but it was fairly sinister from the outset; the preceding Weimar Republic had none of the state ideology that Nazi Germany had, where Imperial Japan had had its ideology for centuries.
-they have similar looking flags.
Only from 0083 onwards. Before it had the Zeon emblem, and Iron Cross, and something that looks very clearly like the Rising Sun against a white background (I can't find a picture of it at the moment, unfortunately). This supports what HellCat said: that Zeon is mostly a combination of the various 20th Century dictatorships. The Nazi-esque flag is "official" now, and that fits with the larger Nazi aesthetic that has been attached to Zeon over the years, but aesthetic isn't everything and it wasn't always that way.
-a preference for gassing civilians.
But not their own. In fact, Zeon is completely missing one of Nazi Germany's defining features: death camps for their own undesirables. By all accounts, the actual people of Side 3 lived fairly well under the iron fist of the Zabi regime, with the only purges being the political ones common to fledgling dictatorships. Zeon saw themselves as superior but didn't seek to eliminate the inferior people, just subjugate them.

Actually, that whole foreign policy is really where Zeon mirrors Imperial Japan the most. Their attitude towards Spacenoids is very similar to how Japan viewed the rest of Asia: on the one hand, they claimed they were fighting to unify Asia against external powers, but in practice sought to put themselves in power and slaughtered countless civilians in the process of doing so. It's not an EXACT parallel, but it is intriguingly close.
-both liked to spout off about being superior to the rest of humanity.
So did Japan (see that chapter of Amuro 0082). Nationalism is a key aspect of the various 20th century dictatorships, and is common to Germany, Russia, and Japan.
-both were led by guys that didn't mind and even justified committing mass murder for their twisted ideologies.

[...]

Then there is the whole comparing Gihren Zabi to Adoplh Hitler thing in a conversation.
HellCat's already addressed this nicely. GIHREN is like Hitler, yes, but his larger regime probably has more in common with the other member of the Axis. Either way, Tomino drew on numerous influences for his war, and it doesn't really reflect any of them perfectly. Zeon is Zeon.

In fact, despite that whole last post, I don't really like giving credit to the whole "The OYW is WWII IN SPACE!!!" camp. Aside from the democracy-VS-dictatorship angle, it's a completely different conflict, and yet you see the comparison pop up a lot.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:13 am

Well, I am going to refrain from getting involved in this whole "is Zeon Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan" discussion, because while an interesting subject, I don't really know enough about either to comment.
Having said that, I finished reading Vol5 today and found it immensely enjoyable, especially in how it delved into the background of characters like Hamon, Ramba Ral, and of course Casval and Artesia as well as their parents.
I'm ambivalent personally on the subject of Zeon Zum Deikun. I'm sure he was a good man, but he came across to me as someone who's not exactly playing with a full deck. His wife, on the other hand - Astraia - I liked, and I especially liked the scene between her and Hamon.

As for the kids (speaking of which, I was pleasantly surprised and very amused to see a cameo from two others of the story's main cast)...the more I read this, the more I like Artesia/Sayla An interesting tidbit: It's been consistently spelled "Sayla", but at one point I saw it written "Seila". Odd, but it didn't bother me.
And on the subject of names, I found it intriguing that Vertical's edition chose the French spelling "Édouard" as opposed to the English "Edward" I've seen before for Casval's first pseudonym. Again, not a big deal - but one of those little details I thought was neat.
I will say this though, the more I read, the less I like Casval/Char. But that's just me.

Overall, a fascinating read, and it's got me totally psyched for the animated version that's coming up soon.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by yazi88 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:30 am

It seems like the Origin version of OYW Char is a lot closer to how Char is in CCA as how more cold and ruthless and ambitious compared to the anime MSG Char if that makes any sense.

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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:46 am

Honestly, I didn't see that much of a difference between Casval in CCA and in MSG. Except in CCA he's even more of a selfish, petty, and manipulative bastard than he was in MSG.

I specify Casval here to distinguish between the Char Aznable we all know (that is to say, Edouard Mass/Casval Rem Deikun) and the individual to whom the name belonged originally, and who had this peculiarity: That he looked so much like Casval that he could have passed for his twin, save for the color of his eyes. A plot point that becomes highly relevant late in volume 5.

Quattro in Z was odd, for me, because for most of his screentime, that aspect of his character is absent.
But I do agree that there is just something about Origin-Casval that seems cold, even cruel at times; I'd have to rewatch, but I don't ever recall Casval in MSG ever getting quite that bad. Then again, judging from what he did to Garma(which also occurs in Origin, and is not that far removed from what he did to Char), the difference does not seem all that great.
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Re: The Official Gundam: The Origin Manga Thread

Post by Kratos » Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:54 am

Yeah, I don't think he's really all that different. THE ORIGIN just has more of him.
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