Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

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LightningCount
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Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by LightningCount » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:03 pm

So, as we all know, somewhere in Sunrise they're working on an animated adaptation of Gundam: The Origin (a manga retelling of 0079).

Recently, I got to thinking about this more in-depth, and for the first time, questioned the benefit and effectiveness of such a venture. The PS2 game, Journey to Jaburo, gave us a taste of what reworked footage from the 0079 series would look like. And while the mobile suits benefited from the new animation, the character designs looked to clash with the more detailed/animated machines. The Origin gives a different spin on the story as I understand it, and goes more into some of the characters; however, can those character designs really come through exactly as is in 2013, or do they need to be tweaked? I'm not saying go SEED on it, but I don't see the 70s designs holding up seamlessly in new animation. Maybe it's just me. Beyond that, even with changes, can it really significantly add to the narrative impact an already solid tale as it was told in 1979?

Moreover, what does The Origin do for the franchise? Maybe it sets up a more complete reintroduction of UC than Unicorn and helps sell some old model kits, but does that mean more remakes of all UC titles? Does the franchise build itself back into the UC universe beyond Victory? If so, how does it help for AU innovation if animators are revisiting an old series? Doesn't it tempt more reworkings of the original Gundam story, and not more exploratory concepts that might snag newer viewers?

Thoughts?
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ORegan
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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by ORegan » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:47 pm

This kinda reminds me of when Nintendo made Pokemon Firered and Leafgreen. :P

But the redone animation quality of my second favorite Gundam game(Zeonic Front is the best) isn't that big of an improvement. They were to clean up some areas where the proportions looked a little funky, but overall followed the same style mainly because they were just meant to take the place of short cutscenes and weren't the overall focus of the game.

I'm not sure how many episodes the Origin adaption will have, but if it's a few episodes like Unicorn, the detail to each model will make the visuals much more eye-pleasing. I never liked the MSG Gundam and GM designs because they look so barren, and the Zaku and Gouf units had oddly shaped heads compared to later models. So yes, the visuals will be a huge impact.

And as far as your question on characters holding up go, the franchise has been going on for so long and reusing the tropes from MSG, that an alternate timeline of MSG instead of a AU isn't that big of a change from what they've already been doing. What is a big deal, though, will be the coming arguments on this board as to if MSG still happened or if Origin retconned it.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by bullethead » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:04 am

The main benefit of The Origin anime is the fact that it can be used to introduce modern anime viewers who aren't into Gundam to UC and the Gundam multiverse in general. These days, no one wants to watch a show from 1979 with pretty terribad animation, which is why we're also getting stuff like Yamato 2199.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Tangerine » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:29 am

Even 10 years ago, the MSG animation level was already pretty disengaging to teenage viewers. I think it's a good deal to upgrade the animation. Even without the Novel's twist the MSG can still hold on its own. The story and character might need a little cosmetics here and there but the main core value is still good on sales. After all even the newest of Gundam franchise still has similar if not identical to MSG. The only contrary be Turn-A which unlikely need to receive any visual upgrade soon.

Speaking for myself, rather than watching anymore of MSG bastardize version (seed cough-cough..), I rather take the original MSG with upgraded visual. This is also a friendly way to introduce newer fans to the original franchise, rather than forcing them to watch the terrible decades old animation. Seed isn't as compelling since it's more like a messy mix of everything.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Scheuch13 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:24 am

Better animation, better dialogue (bandai seems to be doing better with translations these days and making them sensible in english instead of the awkwardness of the original), less 80ish cartoony look.

The original is good, but it is certainly dated. I think the whole reason why gundam wing was so successful in the US was due to the fact that it was an updated series and really the first gundam series to be broadcast on TV here introducing an entire generation of kids to its true awesomeness. However all those kids grew up on the crappy after colony series with invincible gundams and emo characters.

Bring back the good old UC series and bandai will prosper. However they need to license their shows to broadcast as few people are going to go out and blow $80 on anime (such as gundam unicorn) except hardcore fans. More exposure means more people to sell merchandise to, which is the real reason they keep making these series, got to keep remaking those same kits we have seen 100 times in various colors.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by teslashark » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:54 am

ORegan wrote:This kinda reminds me of when Nintendo made Pokemon Firered and Leafgreen. :P

But the redone animation quality of my second favorite Gundam game(Zeonic Front is the best) isn't that big of an improvement. They were to clean up some areas where the proportions looked a little funky, but overall followed the same style mainly because they were just meant to take the place of short cutscenes and weren't the overall focus of the game.

I'm not sure how many episodes the Origin adaption will have, but if it's a few episodes like Unicorn, the detail to each model will make the visuals much more eye-pleasing. I never liked the MSG Gundam and GM designs because they look so barren, and the Zaku and Gouf units had oddly shaped heads compared to later models. So yes, the visuals will be a huge impact.

And as far as your question on characters holding up go, the franchise has been going on for so long and reusing the tropes from MSG, that an alternate timeline of MSG instead of a AU isn't that big of a change from what they've already been doing. What is a big deal, though, will be the coming arguments on this board as to if MSG still happened or if Origin retconned it.

About your last point... From what I knew about Origin, it's not intended as a retcon for any instance. Maybe we can suggest to make it into a mechatalk discussion rule.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Richardmvela » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:51 am

I think an updated version of MSG would make sense to not just Gundam fans but fans of anime in general. This will give people who are intimidated by the size and complexity of Gundam a chance to get in on the starting point of the UC.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Amion » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:31 pm

Scheuch13 wrote:The original is good, but it is certainly dated. I think the whole reason why gundam wing was so successful in the US was due to the fact that it was an updated series and really the first gundam series to be broadcast on TV here introducing an entire generation of kids to its true awesomeness. However all those kids grew up on the crappy after colony series with invincible gundams and emo characters.
I'm not sure Wing is as important now adays. From what I understand, the fanbase in the West is so small now, any affect Wing did have is long gone, while Seed and Destiny's catastrophic effects are still lingering into today. But Bandai doesn't care too much for the Western market either from what I've seen, so whatever comes out next, AU or otherwise probably won't be promoted here to a significant extent regardless of it being good, bad, or 1970's ugly.

But I digress from the topic at hand. Would I like to see the Origin animated? Absolutely. Scheuch and the others make a good point that it's outdated and was pretty sloppy even for 1979. If they follow a pattern of animation similar to Unicorn, I would not complain at all and would be most pleased. There's a cameo picture of Amuro in episode 4 of Unicorn, and it looked perfectly acceptable while still carrying over Amuro's design.

But the real question of the day is whether or not Bandai will release the Origin instead of a new AU. At this point, it won't matter because the fans will complain about Origin being another tiring foray into the One Year War and denounce it, while the other side will pull out their hair if they get the new AU and it's inevitably blatant Kira-esc protagonist or war-is-sad message preaching princess idol singer reformists.
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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by monster » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:49 pm

Amion wrote:But the real question of the day is whether or not Bandai will release the Origin instead of a new AU. At this point, it won't matter because the fans will complain about Origin being another tiring foray into the One Year War and denounce it, while the other side will pull out their hair if they get the new AU and it's inevitably blatant Kira-esc protagonist or war-is-sad message preaching princess idol singer reformists.
Well, it can matter depending on the current state of the TV watching audience. After all, even with its detractors, SEED is still decently successful. And they can always make another OVA for those UC-only fans.

It just depends on whether they're still willing to take a chance with a new story after AGE or if they've temporarily given up creatively and want to take the easy way out with Origin.

Either way, it's all good for me. They can even do both.

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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Amion » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:47 pm

I'd prefer both, question is whether Bandai thinks it is profitable or not. The fear of experimenting with something that might blow back in their faces is high right now. They've got a show like Valvrave coming out that is probably meant to test the waters I'll bet.

And for the record, Bandai isn't concerned with the Western audience. And what the average Japanese viewer wants to see in a Gundam story is different from a Westerners expectations. They loved Destiny over there, for instance, while here it was a disaster.
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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by LightningCount » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:56 pm

Amion wrote:But the real question of the day is whether or not Bandai will release the Origin instead of a new AU. At this point, it won't matter because the fans will complain about Origin being another tiring foray into the One Year War and denounce it, while the other side will pull out their hair if they get the new AU and it's inevitably blatant Kira-esc protagonist or war-is-sad message preaching princess idol singer reformists.
Well, I do wonder if The Origin will really hit anyone other than people already interested in Universal Century. Unicorn has been a pretty successful title, but its success seems to be largely from a fanbase hungry for a return to UC or people simply wanting a big-budget Gundam release. Can the story of the White Base and One Year War really cut through the noise of the modern industry? Especially when there have been so many mecha shows--AU Gundam and otherwise (IE: Eureka 7, etc)--that have basically taken and reworked arcs or characters from 0079 into modern stories. It's not clear to me how much of an impact it can make. It feels more like a vanity project with a pipe dream attached to it that it will automatically make people want to carry on into the preexisting forms of Zeta and ZZ, etc. Don't get me wrong, I am curious to see such an endeavor; but seeing Journey to Jaburo's cut scenes again made me wonder just how much you can fundamentally improve the original's 70s-ish-ness for a modern audience. The cost and benefit are tricky.
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Re: Benefit/Effectiveness of a 0079 Remake?

Post by Kratos » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:14 am

LightningCount wrote:Can the story of the White Base and One Year War really cut through the noise of the modern industry? Especially when there have been so many mecha shows--AU Gundam and otherwise (IE: Eureka 7, etc)--that have basically taken and reworked arcs or characters from 0079 into modern stories.
I have plenty of friends who watched MSG relatively recently and enjoyed it quite a bit, and there are threads weekly on /m/ made by people who watched the series or movies and enjoyed it greatly. The series holds up better than you'd think, and most of its issues are on a technical and pacing side. All of these people I know found the story and characters engaging and enjoyable.

My point being, yes, I think MSG holds up today. It won't revolutionize a genre like it did 30 years ago, but a good story is a good story. What's more, pretty much every step that THE ORIGIN takes in its adaptation of that story is the right one. It keeps what needs to be kept (all the characters follow the same arcs, all the story beats are intact, the outcome is the same) while still making itself into its own beast (mostly through the flashback stuff, but there are plenty of minor changes throughout the main story - and even a couple of major ones).
LightningCount wrote:...but seeing Journey to Jaburo's cut scenes again made me wonder just how much you can fundamentally improve the original's 70s-ish-ness for a modern audience.
THE ORIGIN sets a good precedent there too, which is to say it modifies practically nothing. The manga has an identical aesthetic to MSG, both in character and mech designs; Ramba Ral may be slimmed down a little bit and the MS may have undergone very minor redesigns, but the style is the same. Amion had a good point above - Unicorn proves that Yas' character designs can be integrated into modern anime very well. All you need is modern animation techniques - the style need not be changed at all.
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