Questions Regarding Gundam F91

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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Strike Zero » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:46 pm

Yeah, what Shadow said. And even if it did mean the same way, Tomino could say whatever he wanted, and it wouldn't mean a darned thing. He may have created Gundam, but he certainly doesn't own it anymore. =P
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:44 pm

Exactly. Tomino sold the rights to Gundam somewhere around the time Victory was coming out. He can make "Word of God" statements all he wants, but he can't actually enforce them. A good example is Char's Counterattack, and the ambiguous fate of Amuro and Char. Tomino has said that from his perspective, they're dead (and the novelizations he wrote reflect that), but Sunrise's attitude is basically "They're dead until we decide we need to increase sales".
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by HellCat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:46 pm

I generally feel that thus far Unicorn has done a good job fitting in with established animated continuity. The only real oddity that comes to mind is Torrington now seemingly being part of a wider city. Obviously we know whatever is in Laplace's Box isn't really going to change anything but I'm pretty confident when all is said and done we'll have a tale that can sit in the gap between CCA and F91 without much issue.

Which is more then I think can be said for most 'Let's wedge this in between two existing stories' Gundam tales.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by mcred23 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:12 pm

Crossfire40 wrote:Interesting, so when Tomino states that he hates Gundam Victory and that it should be avoided, that would not be considered "de-canonizing" ?
It is woth noting that Tomino's most negative comments about Victory, telling people he didn't like the show and the infamous "Don't buy this show on DVD" line, apparently come from some booklet or commentary from one of Victory's DVDs. So really, that thing seems to partly be a joke on his part, and once again proves you need to take anything attributed to Tomino with a grain of salt unless you've got sources. :wink:

And just to throw in my two cents, I sorta agree with what Strike Zero said. The first 15 or 20 minutes I thought were excellent, but then the pacing makes things problematic for the rest of the move, leading to problems like two scenes being seperated by a span of a week with no clue given within the film itself. However, I thought the battles were all pretty well done, and I liked most of the character and mecha designs. It's a movie that has its share of flaws in it (That scene with the Federation officer who is seemingly squished by that G-Cannon still confuses me :|), but one I still very much enjoyed inspite of them.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by branman88 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Everytime I watch F91 it always makes me wish that they would go back and remake it into a tv series like it was originally ment to be.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Gundam420 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:52 pm

Citizen Costigan wrote: -Will Gundam Unicorn's conclusion render F91 non-cannon?
Words cannot describe how sick I am of hearing this. Let's forget that that the two stories have noting to do with each other, the fact that they're separated by decades should be enough of an indicator that the only way for Unicorn to retcon F91 or Victory is for it to deliberately go out of it's way to deny/get rid of anything connected to either of them.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Soma Taozi » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:54 pm

I pretty much agree with everyone else about this movie, in that, 15-20 minutes of it are pretty great, then pacing becomes a major problem.

Personally, I see F-91 as more of a gateway into the Crossbone Gundam manga (which you should check out Citizen if you haven't yet).

Although it doesn't fully make up for the pacing and many different issues in F-91, it does help elevate some of them...as well as tell the story of what happens to a good number of the characters, like Seabook and Cecily (love, love, love).

If the change in format and art style doesn't bother you, Crossbone is pretty good and makes watching F-91 worth it for more than just some cool action and characters.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by ShadowCell » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:30 am

i love Crossbone to death but it comes with an important caveat: it is very very different from other Gundam stories. there is minimal character development; there is approximately none of the complexity and moral ambiguity that marked (certain stretches of) F91; the mecha designs are for the most part, shall we say, an acquired taste. i love it, but it's not what the internet appears to be convinced it is.

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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Gearhead1182 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:48 pm

Any information with the production of Gundam F91 is scarce but what I know is that the higher ups did not believe the story was good enough to merit a tv series. This in turn caused a problem with Tomino and the production team as someone else in the post pointed out. They already had story episodes laid out but eventually were forced to jam pack it into the movie it is now. The film has its problems but overall its a nice addition to the gundam universe, but I feel that it had so much potential.

Ironically, though the corporate suits didn't believe in Gundam F91, Sunrise Bandai still created side stories like Gundam F90, Silhouette Gundam, and Crossbone Gundam to make money thru merchandising. This was the precussor to Tomino's depression and the result on V Gundam

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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:14 pm

ShadowCell wrote:i love Crossbone to death but it comes with an important caveat: it is very very different from other Gundam stories. there is minimal character development; there is approximately none of the complexity and moral ambiguity that marked (certain stretches of) F91; the mecha designs are for the most part, shall we say, an acquired taste. i love it, but it's not what the internet appears to be convinced it is.

Hahaha, true. Don't forget that the entire last act of the story (Steel Seven) is basically Gundam's version of Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven...that and it doesn't explain what happened to ALL the characters from F-91 (unless there is a sidestory i am missing). Seabooks mom and sister are surprisingly absent from Crossbone.

Despite the cons and not being very deep, it is still worth a read for being just a fun story.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Citizen Costigan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:23 pm

Gundam420 wrote:
Citizen Costigan wrote: -Will Gundam Unicorn's conclusion render F91 non-cannon?
Words cannot describe how sick I am of hearing this. Let's forget that that the two stories have noting to do with each other, the fact that they're separated by decades should be enough of an indicator that the only way for Unicorn to retcon F91 or Victory is for it to deliberately go out of it's way to deny/get rid of anything connected to either of them.
This is all true but I honestly was still unsure and thought it worth asking once.
Traitor Villain wrote: It is woth noting that Tomino's most negative comments about Victory, telling people he didn't like the show and the infamous "Don't buy this show on DVD" line, apparently come from some booklet or commentary from one of Victory's DVDs. So really, that thing seems to partly be a joke on his part, and once again proves you need to take anything attributed to Tomino with a grain of salt unless you've got sources. :wink:
I honestly haven't heard of anything to lead me to believe it's a joke, but I don't have any sources either way.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by teslashark » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:48 pm

F91 have good character designs and good "acting" in general. Though it definitely lack one or two good shootout or duels between Seabook and Zabine, the "pimp slap" Zabine gave to Annamarie is rather disappointing. Also, Jegans are surprisingly weak against Crossbone units, It surely is time to form a new ECOAS or even a new Titans then call the Starks, Jestas and Gustavs back into action. That's what should be done, retrospectively if they ever want to have a TV remake.

to LightningCount: some of the pilot suit designs can be traced to Dragonar.
PS. If there ever is a TV remake, it will be definitely amusing to se Annamarie defecting and staying on the White Ark only to fight over Seabook with Cecile.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Captain Anonymous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:04 am

I enjoyed F91 for the most part. Most of my complaints from it stem from the length of the movie is just too short to fit in all the plot. I'm also not a huge fan of the ending which ends on a cliffhanger and leaves you wanting more. There seemed to be a lot of interesting side characters floating about, but the film barely has time to follow the main characters, which leads to a lot of them feeling lost.
(And I'd totally watch a Gundam show with Roy Jung as the main character. heh.) Most of them seem like neat people, but we just don't see enough of them.

The animation and the new mech designs were good.

I think one of the biggest faults F91 has is that it isn't a bad film per say, it's just one that gets lost in the shuffle. It doesn't carry over any of the same cast from the MSG, Z, ZZ, CCA stuff, and it's not as infamous as Victory Gundam. So I think most fans see it, but it doesn't leave as big of an impression as some of the other UC stuff.

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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by LightningCount » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:46 am

Here's a question: Despite its flaws, is it the best Gundam movie? We can't count Endless Waltz or 0079 Trilogy and that ilk in the discussion, because those were remix/compilations. A Wakening of the Trailblazer strikes me as too much inane and repetitive action while trying to cram in a story that covers all the missed threads of its respective series. G-Saviour is G-Saviour, so it's just a curiosity. It's been a while since I've seen the famous Char's Counterattack from start to finish, but the last time I rewatched F91, I was left wondering if it might be better overall than CC.

Char's Counterattack relies a lot on one buying into the severity of the rivalry between Amuro and Char, which I personally think fizzled out in the narrative after the original series. Then you've got the prominent and sort of annoying Quess and Hathaway side-stories in there. The race against time, some of its sequences, and some of the side characters like Chan, Rezin, Nanai, and Gyunei help hold things together, but I don't know. The ending is as crazy and inconclusive as any of these features, really. F91 has its problems of time jumps and the fact that it's clearly cut from a series that never was finished, but it almost holds together in a more compelling package as a stand-alone movie. Not sure. I'd have to see them both in close proximity again. Any thoughts?
teslashark wrote:to LightningCount: some of the pilot suit designs can be traced to Dragonar.
I looked this up; vaguely familiar with the series. I can see it in the shape, but not really the details, like the tubes and such.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by ShadowCell » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:02 am

if we can't count Endless Waltz and the Mobile Suit Gundam trilogy as "movies" the same as Char's Counterattack, then we don't have a reason to count F91 either. it's a compilation movie too, just a compilation of material we never saw in its original format and which was never completed.

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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Strike Zero » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:26 am

LightningCount wrote:F91 has its problems of time jumps and the fact that it's clearly cut from a series that never was finished, but it almost holds together in a more compelling package as a stand-alone movie.
I feel as though it's the exact opposite, actually. Because it's set in a mostly new era with an all new cast of characters, F91 has the bigger job of developing its plot from scratch, which it just didn't have enough time to do effectively. Char's Counterattack at least had the benefit of being focused on a group of characters who we're already familiar with.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by LightningCount » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:30 am

ShadowCell wrote:if we can't count Endless Waltz and the Mobile Suit Gundam trilogy as "movies" the same as Char's Counterattack, then we don't have a reason to count F91 either. it's a compilation movie too, just a compilation of material we never saw in its original format and which was never completed.
I see what you're saying, but I don't agree. That's like me saying that Char's Counterattack was ripped out of ZZ, since it's been said that Char was supposed to make his return in there but Sunrise wanted a movie, and Tomino obliged. The fact is, there is no F91 series from which we'd seen this footage excised from, and thus it's a legit, original movie. Many press releases/reviews for A Wakening of the Trailblazer clearly stated that the 00 movie was the first original Gundam movie in 19 years. (IE: F91)

If that's not good enough, then let's simplify it to what is the better feature film: Char's Counterattack or F91, with some reasons given. No agenda, just curious to hear since it's rarely discussed, IMO.
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Homeless » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:35 am

I think that's like asking which is preferable, being shot or stabbed?
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:06 am

Homeless wrote:I think that's like asking which is preferable, being shot or stabbed?
I take it you don't like Char's Counterattack? :D
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Re: Questions Regarding Gundam F91

Post by teslashark » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:43 am

Homeless wrote:I think that's like asking which is preferable, being shot or stabbed?
Well, the avatar of one of us in this thread prefers to be stabbed when he left the screen, at least.
to Count: One of the major similarities is, the Dragonar pilots' helmets all have a handle to pull the visor with, located on the forehead. The Giganos helmets are like OMNI ones from SEED though.
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