Valvrave The Liberator

[DuelGundam2099]

It's not Gonzo level bad texturing

Gonzo does bad CGI? It seemed fine when they did Linebarrels of Iron.

it feels off if they wanted to make it fit seamlessly into the 2D stuff.

Who said they want it to fit seamlessly? Perhaps the CGI stuff is so significant that it needs to be in 3D for emphasis. Then again this is most likely an experimental series, it is probably just some new techniques in the making.

[Strike Zero]

I highly doubt that is their intention, because having CGI that stands out is a very bad thing. CGI that doesn't mesh well with the visuals around it is distracting and is one of the hallmarks of a chap-as-ass production.

You can try to spin it however you want, Duel, but mediocre CGI is mediocre CGI, and is always a strike against any production. The only hope this show has of standing out is through its story, which it has a chance to do since it's being penned by the same guy who wrote Code Geass, but even that news doesn't exactly leave me brimming with anticipation.

[DuelGundam2099]

Duel, but mediocre CGI is mediocre CGI

True, but I don't see why this CGI qualifies as mediocre, it seems fine to me.

CGI that doesn't mesh well with the visuals around it is distracting and is one of the hallmarks of a chap-as-ass production.

What human wrote this in stone? I rarely find CGI, regardless of meshing, as distracting nor do I see it as cheap (do you have any idea how much those effects cost? That'll drain a huge chunk of the budget!).

[Strike Zero]

Because when a studio that actually knows what they're doing puts enough effort into it, CG visuals can actually be pleasing to the eye, such as in Macross Frontier or Ghost in the Shell. When the animators aren't as talented or aren't as well paid, the quality suffers for it big time, just as badly as if it were a cheaply animated 2D production.

If you don't find obvious CGI to be much of a bother, that's fine, but we all know exactly how skewed your tastes are when it comes to liking things; most people find CGI that sticks out like a sore thumb unappealing, myself included.

[DuelGundam2099]

When the animators aren't as talented or aren't as well paid, the quality suffers for it big time, just as badly as if it were a cheaply animated 2D production.

Fair enough, you make a good point.

such as in Macross Frontier or Ghost in the Shell.

Not examples I'd use, both of them have involvement with anime veterans with over a decade plus experience including the legendary Shoji Kawamori and are part of bigger franchises with previous entries. Valvrave doesn't have either advantage; while it has experienced people such as Kunio Okawara working on it, the staff is not nearly as experienced and Valvrave is something entirely new so you cannot expect the same form of refinement or polish you would from Frontier or GitS. Mistakes and quirks happen with the first entry of every franchise due to experiments and technological limitations! Mazinger, Gundam, Ultraman, Kamen Rider, Macross, VOTOMS, Godzilla, Gamera, Getter Robo, Devilman, etc. Valvrave might grow after the first series, but either way it'll be no exception.

Regardless we can't judge anything concrete about this series until it is out in the next four weeks or so and even if we end up hating it we still have two other series and Tetsujin 28 shorts to look forward to.

we all know exactly how skewed your tastes are when it comes to liking things

I wouldn't say skewed, that would imply that at some point they were normal.

[Strike Zero]

Just because somebody is new at something doesn't give them a pass at being compared against others who do good work. If something is bad, I'll call it like I see it. Maybe if this were a one or two episode OVA, I'd say you'd have something there with the notion of Sunrise (who, while we're at at, can't really be accused of being inexperienced with this sort of thing) "expirimenting" as it were, but this is a one, possibly two-cour television series. A simple little undertaking this ain't.

But you know what, who knows or even cares at this point. We'll just see what happens later. Or, we won't if I end up dropping it early.

I wouldn't say skewed, that would imply that at some point they were normal.

Well, I can't really argue with that.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Go watch Straight Title Robot anime. Then try to complain about Valvrave's CGI

Though seriously I can't tell the quality of CGI either. It looks fine to me, what's important is how well it moves.

[Amion]

I'm not a big fan of CGI. Period. So I'm not thrilled about the show, but the design of the main mecha looks awesome with its energy V-fin thing, so I'm going to wait and see.

And Destiny Gundam's got a point. After watching Straight Title Robot Anime this CGI looks perfectly wonderful. Oh well, I guess I'll check this out...though I have higher hopes for Gargantia. Then again, I don't really have any expectations for either show, negative or positive until I watch the first couple episodes.

Why is it that everyone has to be so picky before they even see the actual product? Though I admit, the MSG esc storyline leaves much to be desired in the way of new material. But hey, that doesn't stop me from watching said MSG over and over again.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Gargantia also has CG mecha, btw.

[Amion]

Wonderful *enter heavy sarcasm*

Well maybe it won't be quite as bad. And this seems to either be a coincidence, or there's some other unseen motive for mecha shows to have CGI in them.

[Strike Zero]

Probably because the animators are too lazy to draw these overly-complicated robots by hand.

[bullethead]

there's some other unseen motive for mecha shows to have CGI in them.

There's a few reasons:
-CGI means that they can create highly detailed designs without animators complaining about the complexity
-It's faster to manipulate a CGI model than whip up stuff in 2D and get it all fully animated
-There's less QUALITY when you've got a CG model that's consistent in terms of volume
-If you need to kitbash stuff, it's easier to do it with CG than 2D, where you have to draw from scratch

Now there are some development tools that aim to make producing 2D animation faster and easier, but it's too early to say what kind of impact they'll have since no one is actually using them IIRC.

[KudosForce]

In addition, producing an all-CGI show is far more expensive than digital 2D animation. Which is why you seldom see stuff like the SD Gundam series being produced.

Also, there ARE cases where CGI is intentionally used to, say, make some things stick out because they're inherently alien and plain wrong (case in point: Ramiel in Rebuild of EVA).

In any case, let's be considered lucky that every case of CGI won't usually be as bad as something from Transformers Energon, for example.

[Amion]

Probably because the animators are too lazy to draw these overly-complicated robots by hand.

Since I just started dabbling in mecha design, yeah, I get the idea. I'll stop complaining now.

[Omega]

New bit of info regarding Valvrave...

http://www.valvrave.com/music/

Apparently TM Revolution and Nana Mizuki are singing the OP of the show together.

[Strike Zero]

*whistles appreciatively*

Well, we can at least expect good things in that regard.

[latenlazy]

Why are we so fixated on shoving characters into archetypes when we don't even know anything about them?

Because the anime industry is so dependent on tropes and archetypes that characters not fitting into familiar archetypes would be totally out of left field.

You mean like Hollywood?

I am displaying tepid interest, but as LightningCount said, this sounds awfully like Bandai trying to repackage Gundam. Despite the premise, the hope is that it is original and good in its execution. That is the hope.

Okay, I admit I'm not very optimistic. The entire small island getting caught between two superpowers sounds awfully like Orb. It also sounds like one of those whiny allegories about Japan's geopolitics. Not encouraged by the possible slice of life high school drama dimension either. Nonetheless, I'll hold judgement...*bits tongue*

[Shinji103]

Anybody else notice how a good number of mecha animes in recent years have been focusing a lot (and in my opinion maybe too much) on a story dynamic between the main male character and another major male character. ("sub-hero" I guess you could call it?)

Code Geass: Lelouch and Suzaku
Fafner: Kazuki and Soushi
Gundam SEED: Kira and Athrun
Break Blade: Rygart and Zess
Gundam AGE: Asemu and Zeheart
And to a slightly lesser extent, Aquarion EVOL: Amata and Kagura

(I know there are more, but I can't remember them off the top of my head)

Judging from the Valvrave website's main page art, it looks like this will be another title following this trend.

I can't really put my finger on it, but I'm not exactly a fan of this trend.

[latenlazy]

It's the high school/young adult male rivalry trope.

[Zeino]

I get the sense that Sunrise wants this to be both the next Gundam Seed and Code Geass since they were their most successful series of the past decade, it's only logical that they'd try to repent what works well for them especially after the bomb that was Gundam Age.