Rematch! Rewatching G Gundam

[JulieYBM]

When I was re-watching the series a few months ago it stuck out to me that if Domon and Rain ever had a daughter she would essentially an Allenby clone. O.o

[InjuredPelican]

Nice insight on Allenby and the Four connection. I never thought about it before, but now it seems so obvious to me! But as you said, she is her own character, thankfully. G Gundam really seems to be the master at upholding Gundam traditions and acknowledging its staples in far more... subtle ways then most Alternate Universe series. Now I like the show even more!

[Amion]

Well put me in a pineapple salad and serve me for dinner, I had never thought of Allenby as a Four twist. I stopped rewatching this show around the time of the Highland's training arc, but now I see I absolutely must start back when my other rewatching is finally finished.

You're right about G Gundam being more subtle than other shows in its silent referencing. I guess that's why it always stuck as a more original, enjoyable alternate universe series than the others.

[AmuroNT1]

Well, the big thing about Romario's Jester Gundam is its ability to spontaneously mimic the finishing moves of other Gundams, as seen when he busts out balloon bits to fight Gundam Rose. Honestly, I think that's a pretty impressive ability - moreso than Domon's "cheater move", as Michelo calls it in one episode.

[HellCat]

People hadn't compared Allenby to Four? Wow Maybe it's because I came into the fanbase when there was a lot of 'AU element is a total rip off of UC!' but it always stuck out to me that Imagawa was giving us a twist on the Zeta Neo-Hong Kong arc he'd personally worked on. Allenby is still one of my absolute favourites in the franchise and a character I find fairly unique. In fact when I got to see Zeta after I'd originally watched G I was kind of dissapointed in Four. She's an ok character but Allenby is alot more fun. Four sadly just became the mold for so many 'brainwashed tragic love interests'.
Though on that note, it's going to make my Wing rewatch interesting. I'd basically pegged Dekim as 'Male Haman' but now I know there's a good mix of V in there. Same for Dorothy being a loose clone of Katejina.

Jester Gundam's powers are one of those things that give me a headache with consistency. I'm sure we're supposed to take it as the pilot is such a great mimic that he can recreate any attack but the things we see from him really put Neo-Russia's operation to shame. I believe he dies later at the hands of infected Zeus but if he'd survived to meet the Devil Gundam, would he have been able to somehow copy that?

[Amion]

Probably. You never see it, but that clown is actually Kirby in disguise.

[HellCat]

Part of me is regretting this rewatch now. I'm still a big fan of G but I've already seen it and know I have to get through Wing before I can touch on some 'newer' stuff like X (I watched a few episodes of it and was never able to see more, sadly). It's partly why these posts are so spaced out unlike ZZ and V where I was able to enjoy several episodes a week.

I think I've said it before but the portrayal of Neo-England always felt right to me. A sad little island desperate to remain important. Though I find it kind of funny that 'Sir' titles are apparently on the rise in the future. Plus why was the evil one involved directly with the barrier plot? Surely he has some Hired Goons he could send to support Michelo?

The breakdown of the partnership between Wong and Master Asia is great. Clearly both were only tolerating the other and now are making plans to do away with their dead weight. I particularly like how we start seeing more flashes of temper from Wong as his previous track record starts to crumble and Domon surviving starts to become a genuine hinderance. Plus he has a great big teddy bear!

I've defended it in the past but the logic behind the Shuffle Alliance ignoring the Devil Gundam bugs me more and more each time I watch. I get what they're after but is it too much to say "Give us each a decisive match, then we'll deal with that monster" over flat out backing out until they get a beatdown and feel satisfied?
One of the highlights at least is George's episode, which really runs counter to anything we've seen from him before. He also has a genuine point that he's been fighting for the sake of others all this time and just once wants to fight for his own sake with an ideal match against Domon.

[JulieYBM]

I thought the rematches worked like that. I think it should have been clear enough to Domon how they felt and that they wouldn't really refuse to help after their matches concluded (well, unless they all died during them).

I do agree about liking George's episode. Playing up the honorable knight's own sense of pride as a man was nice to see, especially considering how the other three already fit the mold.

[HellCat]

Well part of what stands out to me with these fights is the role reversal. When Domon first met them, he was all 'Talk is cheap, WE FIGHT NOW!' and they didn't much care for it. But now, Domon is the cool headed one and it's them getting worked up. Domon's accepted his role as leader and actually seems pretty unhappy he has to go through these particular hoops to get them to help out. He was probably looking forward to maybe getting to fight them but of course the Devil Gundam should take priority.

The annoyance of shonen logic.

[Mark064]

What role reversal? Every one of them was into the fight in the first place. Chibodee got into the confrontation during the boxing match and told Bunny to go find Domon and to challenge him to a fight, after Sai Saici got the Dragon Gundam back he happily accepted the challenge from Domon, Argo staged a prison escape just to be able to fight Domon, George is slightly different because he rejected the first fight due to being involved in another fight but afterwards was happy to fight Domon.

And even then Domon isn't even being the cool headed one in this situation, it's Rain and Schwarz who are the cool headed ones that understands what's going on. It's Rain that Domon doesn't listen to. Domon is more interested in the Devil Gundam because it ties in with his own family problems. Everyone else views the Devil Gundam as important but they are still part of the Gundam Fight and they are still fighting for their own countries and own goals just like Domon is. Because what does Domon do, he goes trains to beat them and focus on those fights while letting Schwarz search for the Devil Gundam.

[Zeino]

Here something I just realized about G Gundam, The Domon and his friends are the only Gundam protagonists that actually ENJOY fighting! In Gundam, Conflict is nearly always depicted as evil and wrong and characters who like to fight are usually evil psychopaths like Yazan, Gym and Ail. But in G? battle is seen as being noble and honorable and a source of better oneself. Granted that because Gundam fights are more super powered Shonen martial art duels (only sometimes to the death) than the normal kind of war that drags people in against their wills like and forces them to kill or be killed like in UC.

[LightningCount]

Part of me is regretting this rewatch now. I'm still a big fan of G but I've already seen it and know I have to get through Wing before I can touch on some 'newer' stuff like X (I watched a few episodes of it and was never able to see more, sadly). It's partly why these posts are so spaced out unlike ZZ and V where I was able to enjoy several episodes a week...People hadn't compared Allenby to Four? Wow Maybe it's because I came into the fanbase when there was a lot of 'AU element is a total rip off of UC!' but it always stuck out to me that Imagawa was giving us a twist on the Zeta Neo-Hong Kong arc he'd personally worked on...Though on that note, it's going to make my Wing rewatch interesting. I'd basically pegged Dekim as 'Male Haman' but now I know there's a good mix of V in there. Same for Dorothy being a loose clone of Katejina.

I noted it earlier in this thread, but G, Wing, and X are probably my favorite era of Gundam, and each has carry over elements into the next. I don't think any of them should be sold short because they borrow basic influences or concepts from UC or one another. (On Wing, you noted V, but there's also some F91 influences going on with the Ronah Family and Romefeller Foundation). Nevertheless, I would hope you'd look beyond the surfaces, as you have with G. Too often one hears the simple Zechs = Char; which is sort of like Allenby = Four in its generalization. And if not that, you get people distracted by weird "pretty boy" talk, etc. There are so many other strange or exaggerated things people could get hung up on in UC alone--Newtype magic, V's bikini-clad soldiers in space versus a Gundam, Amuro crashing a plane into an MS and then skydiving out in Zeta, etc--yet all of that gets a pass, and the "strange/exaggerated" elements of G, Wing, etc get demonized. It's completely unfair. I just rewatched episode 1 of Wing the other day, and the world/atmosphere it creates is quite different from any other Gundam series. The whole is greater than the parts, and the parts have been twisted and innovated into something new.

[HellCat]

What role reversal? Every one of them was into the fight in the first place. Chibodee got into the confrontation during the boxing match and told Bunny to go find Domon and to challenge him to a fight, after Sai Saici got the Dragon Gundam back he happily accepted the challenge from Domon, Argo staged a prison escape just to be able to fight Domon, George is slightly different because he rejected the first fight due to being involved in another fight but afterwards was happy to fight Domon.

And even then Domon isn't even being the cool headed one in this situation, it's Rain and Schwarz who are the cool headed ones that understands what's going on. It's Rain that Domon doesn't listen to. Domon is more interested in the Devil Gundam because it ties in with his own family problems. Everyone else views the Devil Gundam as important but they are still part of the Gundam Fight and they are still fighting for their own countries and own goals just like Domon is. Because what does Domon do, he goes trains to beat them and focus on those fights while letting Schwarz search for the Devil Gundam.

But that's because Schwarz says "They'll come around after they fight you". Domon wanted them to make a united front then and there but they refused because Wong's announcement suited them. So knowing that the Shuffle Alliance needed to be united to stop the DG, Schwarz is cutting Domon some slack by saying "You sort this out because only you can. But don't worry, I'll press on while you're busy". Domon might have enjoyed the resulting fights but it's clear that overall they're means to an end. This isn't the hot head we saw in the first half of the show. That guy all but vanished with the start of Neo-Hong Kong and doesn't return until Allenby is kidnapped. This is a more mature, composed Domon who is trying to fulfill his role as leader of the Shuffle Alliance.

[JulieYBM]

Here something I just realized about G Gundam, The Domon and his friends are the only Gundam protagonists that actually ENJOY fighting! In Gundam, Conflict is nearly always depicted as evil and wrong and characters who like to fight are usually evil psychopaths like Yazan, Gym and Ail. But in G? battle is seen as being noble and honorable and a source of better oneself. Granted that because Gundam fights are more super powered Shonen martial art duels (only sometimes to the death) than the normal kind of war that drags people in against their wills like and forces them to kill or be killed like in UC.

I agree, I think it's a nice romantic notion that a lot of Gundam titles don't tend to have. Although I do feel like the crossover games tend to give Amuro a bit of an edge in terms of his aggressive dialogue that makes him fit in a lot better with the Shuffle Alliance then other pilots do.

[HellCat]

I noted it earlier in this thread, but G, Wing, and X are probably my favorite era of Gundam, and each has carry over elements into the next. I don't think any of them should be sold short because they borrow basic influences or concepts from UC or one another. (On Wing, you noted V, but there's also some F91 influences going on with the Ronah Family and Romefeller Foundation). Nevertheless, I would hope you'd look beyond the surfaces, as you have with G. Too often one hears the simple Zechs = Char; which is sort of like Allenby = Four in its generalization. And if not that, you get people distracted by weird "pretty boy" talk, etc. There are so many other strange or exaggerated things people could get hung up on in UC alone--Newtype magic, V's bikini-clad soldiers in space versus a Gundam, Amuro crashing a plane into an MS and then skydiving out in Zeta, etc--yet all of that gets a pass, and the "strange/exaggerated" elements of G, Wing, etc get demonized. It's completely unfair. I just rewatched episode 1 of Wing the other day, and the world/atmosphere it creates is quite different from any other Gundam series. The whole is greater than the parts, and the parts have been twisted and innovated into something new.

Wing was my first Gundam series but admitedly far for my favourite. It has some good concepts and I agree there's a strong atmosphere from the word go, but when it first aired I dropped off after about 15 episodes and when I've tried to seriously rewatch it I hit the same problem. In terms of UC influence, I think Wing suffers for that in how it basically takes a UC character, changes them ever so slightly and then expects good results. Obviously there are a number of characters who are unique creations. But Zechs is Char on fast forward, Noin is a gender bent Garma, Dorothy is Katejina with better breeding, to name 3 that come to mind.

One thing I do agree in particular with is that the 90s AU shows really pushed that concept in a way that hasn't been felt in later shows, which really do seem happy to just parrot the keystones of UC. Funnels are a good example of that. It's a waiting game to see AU shows throw them out in the final stretch.

[YazanGable]

Here something I just realized about G Gundam, The Domon and his friends are the only Gundam protagonists that actually ENJOY fighting! In Gundam, Conflict is nearly always depicted as evil and wrong and characters who like to fight are usually evil psychopaths like Yazan, Gym and Ail. But in G? battle is seen as being noble and honorable and a source of better oneself. Granted that because Gundam fights are more super powered Shonen martial art duels (only sometimes to the death) than the normal kind of war that drags people in against their wills like and forces them to kill or be killed like in UC.

In all fairness, that's cause there's one big difference here - whenever Amuro, Kamille, et al head out, they know they're probably going to be taking lives. On average multiple lives per sortie. By comparison, you can likely count the number of human casualties caused by the Shuffle Alliance on one hand (disregarding DG Zombies because...well...zombies.) Even many of those human casualties were cases of 'infected by DG, there's no going back.'
Otherwise, they fought in a very structured system where safety was prioritized. About the only times they really had to face similar situations to many Gundam pilots were in select early episodes where they would occasionally have to rip through a couple of grunt mobile suits (where the fact they were piloted almost seemed to be an afterthought.)

So yeah, I can see why they'd be more open to fighting. It takes less of a psychological toll when it's done within the confines of a regulated sport as opposed to a 'you kill or you die' war.

One of those differences I've noticed a lot of the games do tend to overlook. Likely because I imagine it'd be really awkward to watch the Shuffle Alliance suddenly have to come to grips with the fact that they just killed a lot of people.

There are so many other strange or exaggerated things people could get hung up on in UC alone--Newtype magic, V's bikini-clad soldiers in space versus a Gundam, Amuro crashing a plane into an MS and then skydiving out in Zeta, etc--yet all of that gets a pass, and the "strange/exaggerated" elements of G, Wing, etc get demonized.

You and I apparently run in different circles, good sir. I've seen people bust on those first two things in UC a LOT. Victory has a lot of odd things people rag on it for (the bikini clad soldiers are usually #3 on the list behind 'TIRES! TIRES EVERYWHERE!' and the infamous Lupe bath scene) and is one of the shows where people are most likely to use the phrase 'LOLTomino' to describe the writing.
As for the Newtype magic - again, we seem to run in different groups here, cause I've seen Newtypes viewed as anathema in a lot of cases. Largely a side effect of Bandai's decision to make the bulk of Gundam's intro in the west the 1-2 punch of Wing and the UC OVAs. As a result, people look at the idea of Newtypes, even in their more restrained form in 0079 and go 'Space psychics? What the Hell is this?'
As far as Zeta - oh man, Zeta gets a LOT of grief nowadays. Albeit I'll concede Amuro's pseudo-kamikaze doesn't get it that hard, but at the same time:
-Kamille's first fight with Jerid
-Jerid turning into a bad punchline as the show goes on
-Emma getting out of the Mk-II after her fight with Reccoa
-Kamille opening his helmet in space
-The comically bad death of Katz
and
-The finale, which turns Newtype magic up to 11, have all been singled out as things people have given UC grief for.

Again, this could be different demographics at work, but honestly, I've seen people giving UC a harder time these days than X (although X has been coming back under scrutiny as a backlash from years of its being talked up.)

[Zeonista]

G Gundam was a show that turned out to be alright, once I got over my inherent bias and actually watched it. My only lasting complaint is that Bandai & Sunrise should have made it its own show with its own identity, instead of dragging the story into the Gundam franchise tent. I guess maybe Super Capcom Robo Battler G wasn't a title or story concept they wanted to go with though! Despite the fact that it looks and acts like it was based on a handheld game, the show works out well. This is basically due to the main characters and their place in the story. Domon and Rain really make the story credible and push it along. Domon isn't the standard emo whiny Gundam hero, he is driven first to win the Big Tournament, and then to defeat the evil organization trying to use Devil Gundam to conquer Earth through the back door. Rain is so not the typical Gundam heroine. The fact that she wants to marry Domon and have his babies takes the back seat to helping him win his battles and become the hero she knows he can be. And Master Asia the most interesting Gundam character in the world. Which is why he drinks Dos Equis beer.

[HellCat]

I actually think being a Gundam show is a key part of why G works. For instance, up to this point we've always seen MS as a weapon for humans with no minds of their own. So we follow that logic here, assuming indeed that Kyoji is the one directing the Devil Gundam until -WHAM!- we find out the DG has a mind of its own and has gone insane. Everything it's been doing is its own choice and the humans that apparently controlled it were just means to an end.

Likewise, I think the designs are so memorable because they're Gundams. You could use the motifs in an original property but Football Player Gundam? Bull Gundam? WINDMILL GUNDAM?! It's not something you'd expect to see after everything beforehand push the idea of a Gundam as a respectable champion of the battlefield and as a result it's that much more memorable.

Personally, I view G as a playful dip into super robot history and how different robot anime would be if Gundam had never appeared at the time it did. G Gundam is the Gundam we might have got if Tomino and Go Nagai had collaborated.

[Zeonista]

That last post is the best explanation for liking the show as a Gundam anime that I've ever heard. You are a true fan, sir. The idea of Go Nagai and Tomino collaborating on an anime is a very interesting one. In that respect the anime has an appeal to it. I'm not just referring to the appeal of rendering Rain as a Go nagai heroine either.

[Kyuzo Aoi]

While G-Gundam may not need a sequel, there is still much to explore in Future Century. So why not, in 2014, the 20th anniversary of G-Gundam, why not try to make a sequel or remake?

Speaking of which, I found new designs in the new G-Gundam manga...

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:New_M ... ic_001.jpg

Spoiler

Which I say...why Chibodee's Gundam became a cowboy with revolver mechanism as arms, Rose has its bicorn hat turned vertically, Bolt Gundam is somewhat more literal in its name, and Dragon Gundam, now with dragon claws in its feet?