Monsters of The Week: For better or for worse?

[DuelGundam2099]

It is no surprise that I am the local monster of the week fan, but I have to wonder for those here: Do you prefer your shows with or without monsters of the week? Do you prefer them in specific genres over others? Do you think they have significance or have something essential to them? Do you see something in them others do not? Do you hate them? Do you not care? Got favorites? I think there might be worth a good conversation in this.

[AmuroNT1]

Well, MOTWs are a necessary evil in certain types of shows - anything that falls under the banner of "tokusatsu" in Japan, including not just Sentai, Kamen Rider and Ultraman but things like Buffy, Smallville, and the like (though as of a few years ago, Kamen Rider swapped over to a "Monster of the Fortnight" setup). The reason I call this a necessary evil is because of the Joker paradox - if the villain is really effective, the hero looks bad because of his inability to stop the villain from committing grand theft, mass murder, etc. If the hero does his job well, the villain looks weak and pointless because he wasn't able to do anything. The MOTW concept strikes a fine balance; an individual villain can cause a lot of death and mayhem, but the hero still looks good when he manages to stop the villain in a timely manner. The fact that it's a new villain each week provides a convenient excuse for why the hero can't instantly find and defeat later villains.

As for mecha shows like Gundam, well, there's less of an excuse there. The biggest problem is that it comes off as nothing more than a cheap grab for merchandise money with no real-world logic to it. Personally, I always felt that having one group just pump out a bunch of one-, two-, or three-unit runs made them look kind of stupid for taking the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" philosophy way too far and spreading themselves too thin. How much more effective would the Titans have been if, instead of experimenting with about a dozen different TMS designs, they funneled that money into developing a better mass production model? In general, the military show structure of most Real Robots doesn't mesh too well with the MOTW concept; imagine what it would look like if you applied it to a real-world historical drama and had a team of WWII fighter pilots facing off with a new, quirky Luftwaffe prototype every episode.

[YazanGable]

In general, the military show structure of most Real Robots doesn't mesh too well with the MOTW concept; imagine what it would look like if you applied it to a real-world historical drama and had a team of WWII fighter pilots facing off with a new, quirky Luftwaffe prototype every episode.

If the book 'My Tank Is Fight!' is anything to go by, that almost would have happened had the numerous prototypes not fallen through for varying reasons, be they money, feasibility, or an increasingly fickle Furher (among other things.)

[HellCat]

I think a better written robot show can make it show the enemy are adapting. In Eva for instance the Angels get increasingly tougher and NERV gets skin of their teeth victories. Gundam AGE likewise initially suggested the UE were quick to adapt to the Gundam but sadly with the Vagan reveal it was lost to the standard Gundam "I'm arrogant and ambitious, my custom unit will surely grab victory!' justification for MOTW.

[Dendrobium Stamen]

From a Gundam point-of-view, it's a tricky one, but can be done.

For example, a lot of Zeon's MOTW-type MS tended to simply be the first of their design to reach the front line, which the Zeon forces decided to test the mettle of by throwing them into the path of the Federation's "White Devil", the Gundam. We then, of course, see many more Gouf and Dom and Gelgoog types, later on. Their MA designs, however, don't quite fit that logic as well, as I recall; we don't see too many Zakrello models flying around, after all.

Later series vary - Wing is probably the best for portraying its MS as weapons in that regard: the Tallgeese design is a recurring MS and pilot-maiming proto-Leo; Vayeate and Mercurius are recurring designs built to harness the knowledge of the Gundam Scientists for Oz (and recur); and then Wing Zero and Epyon become the decisive MS of the Eve Wars, rather than disposable MOTW designs.

GX wasn't great - there wasn't any need for the Frost Brothers' Newtype candidate victims to all have different MS, that I can see, enjoyable as they were; from a military POV I can't see the Correl, Britova, or Gable making any sense whatsoever, only the Rasveht seems like a practical "Newtype candidate" model, to me. Bertigo made sense as a MOTW, at least, it was the last/only surviving MS of its type on Earth.

[DAG101]

I do kinda like MOTW setups, if they're done right...there does need to be rising threat levels for it to work, but when it's done right, it can allow for a new, interesting fight every week.

And on the topic of the Zakrello, if I remember correctly, it was a prototype that had already been decided as not-workable, and then was taken out against the gundam and failed pretty quickly. Also, the MAs cost WAY more than MS, so they probably don't mass-produce to many. In fact, I don't recall any MA being mass-produced in the OYW

[AmuroNT1]

I think a better written robot show can make it show the enemy are adapting. In Eva for instance the Angels get increasingly tougher and NERV gets skin of their teeth victories.

What makes that really silly is that Anno is a gigantic Ultraman fan, and even slipped a couple of references into Eva.

[DuelGundam2099]

What makes that really silly is that Anno is a gigantic Ultraman fan, and even slipped a couple of references into Eva.

Extremely indirect ones and even then that is stretching it.

[Kuruni]

Indirect? This is indirect?

On topic, yup, MOTW is good way to shut people who keep complaining how "evil grunts can't shoot straight" up.

[AceWhatever]

I think a better written robot show can make it show the enemy are adapting

And a badly written show can run that concept straight into the ground, like the first season of Gravion which had every successive MOTW completely immune to the weapon that killed the last one (not as interesting as it sounds) and then dropped the gimmick completely by the second season.

[2NA Fish]

I quite like monsters of the week when they are tied in to character development. Plus they're lots of fun as long as they don't feel forced.

The best cases of monsters of the week are those where the hero has to figure out how to overcome some funky gimmick power they have, and it draws a parallel to a life lesson they have to learn. Some of these can come off as sounding preachy when not written well though.

Can't bring myself to say MOTW because I use that for Garou : Mark Of The Wolves.

[DuelGundam2099]

Indirect? This is indirect?

More like the ONLY reference and even then that is stretching it. Mere symbols do not necessarily mean Ultra references. And serious, a loli booru? Uwe.

[Kuruni]

Dude, the Ultra Runes were used since Tsubuaya was still alive. You really think that guy simply put random symbols? Ever heard of Fictional language?

Well, I have no proof that Tsuburaya ever went far enough to done that. But here's better comparation, with caption from Ace Killer episode from Ultraman Ace. SOrry guy, it isn't random.

Heck, Tsuburaya Pro even got their name on credit as creator of Ultraman.

And another one, wait, just remember that you hate Nexus...

But lets stop here, else we have to split it to another thread.

And serious, a loli booru? Uwe

It's long story...that image board is kind of a successor to now closed Akibakko. Despite the name, the content there is questionable at worst. The "Explicit" is there just to hide "very questionable" images.

[DuelGundam2099]

You really think that guy simply put random symbols?

They looked more like constellation or egyptian symbols to me, not an Ultra reference. Also, just because a preview has a couple ultra-vague references does not mean NGE was based around it.

wait, just remember that you hate Nexus...

It's one of my top four Ultra series. Also, just because the scenes look similar does not mean one inspired the other.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about

[AmuroNT1]

They looked more like constellation or egyptian symbols to me, not an Ultra reference. Also, just because a preview has a couple ultra-vague references does not mean NGE was based around it.

Nobody never said Eva was based on Ultraman; in fact, all my original post said was that Anno is a fan and included a couple of references. I was just mentioning it because HellCat talked about Eva's relation to the MOTW trope and I pointed out the irony of its being directed by a gigantic Toku fanboy.