The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-8

[Kei Katsuragi]

Shadowcell.... are you a Kio apologist?

[DuelGundam2099]

Kaioshin I can understand your plight and I will admit that a lot of my criticisms come from personal taste rather than quality. I am, however, going to point out a couple of things:

1. The problem is mostly just the new series. People love Unicorn, the recent gundam games, and there is a level of popularity with the remastering of SEED. Maybe Bandai will put Gundam on hiatus for a while, but not for a full decade.

2. Have you BEEN to Godzilla forums like Toho Kingdom, Kaiju Phile, Club Tokyo, or Kaiju Galaxy? No really, have you actually BEEN to those places? I have (since 2005), trust me, the Gundam fandom is far healthier in comparison as ours does not have witch hunting, mass elitism, rampantly inconsistent administrations, and extreme cynicism (as in cannot find good in *anything* and will copy and paste negative views on something for the sake of band-wagoning when they themselves know nothing about it). These people cannot be appeased in any sense of thew word. ANYTHING that gets a new release (or released in the past decade) they will pick apart and slam like wanna-be art critics and if it gets slammed enough heaven forbid you disagree with any consensus or else the title of troll/retard/uneducated git/moron/naive/etc. Consensus on anything bypasses any level common sense; worst of all they are aware of it and could not care less.

I could easily give you guys a first hand account on the amount of trash that goes there with no less than 22 paragraphs, but that is not for this topic. My point is unless you've been there for years, NEVER compare any fandom to the Godzilla fandom.

Okay.

Now back to Gundam Age discussions.

Yeah. *munches on chocolate bar for emphasis*

[ShadowCell]

Shadowcell.... are you a Kio apologist?

i'm a "how about we criticize AGE for the things it's actually doing bad instead of just making stuff up and being stupid"-ist

'cuz honestly i think AGE has had the better approach to this whole "peace and understanding" thing than the other shows that did it, like 00 and SEED/DESTINY. it hasn't given Kio any macguffins to do that, so, lo and behold, it's been incredibly difficult. and i like that. it's certainly a more mature look at this theme than, say, Unicorn, where we were all supposed to sympathize with Banagher for trying to talk down Loni, or 00, where we were all supposed to ignore how the magic pixie dust hadn't solved everyone's problems and pretend that it had.

but the reaction to all that--especially as compared to how everyone's been happy to accept the same thing in Unicorn--has been pretty pathetic.

[Kei Katsuragi]

Fair enough. I suppose I am in that same camp as well.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

I get that having ideals and sticking to them is important and all but the only death he averted was today was Zanald, after he killed a friend of his. Also its wierd that we're praising Kio for his policy but we trashed Banagher for doing the same but Banagher's situation may have been alittle more extreme. Kio doesn't have to become a monster but he has to realize there are some enemies that need to die or that there will be scenarios where killing will be unavoidable.

[reeoyuy]

Goodbye Seric, I hardly knew ya. No, really, before last week's episode I forgot he was a character outside of just having a fancy clanche. Also, the way he defeated Gurdolin.... Honestly, that just felt really smug, it made me want to see him gone and I got what I wanted. Also glad that they did not kill off Zanald (yet).

Next preview it looks like Fram is finally going and that guy that pilots the Ghirarga. You'd think they would build up to Sid at this point, but no.

What, you need to know his family lineage, his education history, and his social security number to elevate him above the status of "hardly know ya"? Also, I don't remember you wanting Woolf to be dead because of him being "smug". If Woolf is allowed to be smug because he is the Super Pilot, then let Seric lives up to his 'Holmes of Battlefield' name.

Like I posted before, Kio has yet to question why Second Moon is in Earth's orbit, even though the Mar's rays killing Lu was the primary reason for his no kill policy. Why was it only moved now, why not before?

I can't believe people still asking why they can't move Second Moon to earth orbit earlier. It's a simple logic; before, there were Big Ring and sizeable EF forces that stand on its way. And now Big Ring is gone, Vagan has Lagramis and enough forces around earth orbit to cover their own moving home base. Moving Second Moon that close to enemy territory is like a gamble. It must have taking huge amount of resources and probably can't move back to Mars if things don't go as planned. Similar situation with Frontier fleet breaking through Vajra home planet and landed the colony there in Macross F. It's one thing that you will only do in a final phase of the operation, because there's no turning back.

[DuelGundam2099]

I don't remember you wanting Woolf to be dead because of him being "smug".

Woolf did not come across as smug, Seric did.

[reeoyuy]

I don't remember you wanting Woolf to be dead because of him being "smug".

Woolf did not come across as smug, Seric did.

Well then that's your interpretation of smug. I'll just call Seric as confident. Maybe over-confident.
But seriously, wow, you just wishing one of the good guys died only because he's being smug in one battle (his only named-character kill). It's not like Seric being annoyingly smug anytime he appeared, last week we even praise him for the one who knock some sense into Kio's thick skull.

[DuelGundam2099]

But seriously, wow, you just wishing one of the good guys died only because he's being smug in one battle (his only named-character kill).

Technically he should have, the Gurdolion would have easily ripped his MS apart. When it was destroyed and his clanche wasn't I thought to myself (rather loudly) "BULL FRIGGIN' CRAP!" The smugness reminds me too much of Duo from Wing.

[Kei Katsuragi]

Just like the Freedom should have beat the Impulse?

[Andrew_Graruru]

I guess one thing I find odd about the discussion of pacifism within Gundam fandom is people only seem to focus on it from an in-universe perspective. I'm curious about why this trend of pacifistic heroes has developed from a writing and production-perspective. Is it simply a case of changing demographics; as Gundam moves from being solely marketed to teens and military otaku to a younger audience (age) as well as a more female-orientated fanbase (00, Seed)

Or are the reasons political? Japan prides itself on its pacifism, right? As a country its lived without war for decades, the prospect of killing for a noble-cause is alien to modern Japanese youth, whereas when 0079 was released the second world war was still in somewhat recent memory.

[DuelGundam2099]

Just like the Freedom should have beat the Impulse?

It did that twice.

[Kei Katsuragi]

Did what twice?

EDIT: Ooooh, okay. So if Seric was beat twice it would've been okay for him to win?

[bullethead]

Like I posted before, Kio has yet to question why Second Moon is in Earth's orbit, even though the Mar's rays killing Lu was the primary reason for his no kill policy. Why was it only moved now, why not before?

I can't believe people still asking why they can't move Second Moon to earth orbit earlier. It's a simple logic; before, there were Big Ring and sizeable EF forces that stand on its way. And now Big Ring is gone, Vagan has Lagramis and enough forces around earth orbit to cover their own moving home base. Moving Second Moon that close to enemy territory is like a gamble. It must have taking huge amount of resources and probably can't move back to Mars if things don't go as planned. Similar situation with Frontier fleet breaking through Vajra home planet and landed the colony there in Macross F. It's one thing that you will only do in a final phase of the operation, because there's no turning back.

I think the problem people have with your explanation is that prior to AGE-1's roll out, there wasn't any military tech in the Earth Sphere that could offset the massive technological advantage the Vagans got from the EXA-DB. All they had to do was bring the colony to Earth, decloak, and have a few battleships and Gafrans around to deal with any Federation forces sent their way. Eventually the military would admit that they had no way to deal with the threat and the politicians would figure it would be easier to let them stay there than fund a costly arms build up to deal with squatters.

[2NA Fish]

Seric's character has actually been in a bad position for a while now. While I liked him to start off with, he's been set up to be this all round intelligent nice guy model soldier Mister Perfect, and it was starting to get really old. They really played it up this episode as well, which got really annoying as characters who are too perfect tend to do. The only way for his character to go was down unfortunately.

As for fandom, as far as I know, every single Gundam series after the first has been described as the worst series ever when they first came out. I've looked at some Japanese fan comments that said the 0079 movie trilogy ruined the series, and Zeta ruined the series, X ruined the series... It isn't just the newer series that get hate, just that they're the most prevalent at the moment. Probably in another 5 years, we'll have people saying they want to go back to the glory days of AGE and 00.

About pacifism, I think we'll see what message they actually want to convey with Kio very soon. I'll leave my thoughts to when that happens. The events of this episode will probably lead Kio to finally better understand Flit's motivations, so they've set themselves up to make a strong statement. Not holding my breath though...

[Kei Katsuragi]

Do you think a Gundam AGE special edition would be really good? Get rid of all the useless stuff and and focus on the important junk? Movie 1 would be Flit, Movie 2 would be Asemu, and the last movie(s) would be Kio. I imagine that would be a much more definitive version of this story, honestly.

[ZeonsSilverStar]

The last three series had a special edition so I can see the same being done with Age. There was also a rumor of an Age movie but I don't know really know anything more than that.

[Destiny_Gundam]

"They did it first" is absolutely a valid reason. What else would you have? Should Earth just lay down its arms and let the Vagans steamroll them? The Vagan are an existential threat, and you have to do what's necessary to end that threat. Everyone here has watched other Gundam series, so what's with all this nonsense about peace? We've seen what it takes to put an end to war in a Gundam series, and babbling to the enemy that you shouldn't fight isn't it.

"They did it first" is playground logic. I've never had a teacher who accepted that excuse.

But if you think that way, then I guess you think Patrick Zala was completely justified in firing GENESIS at Earth.

No one is saying that the Federation should let the Vagans have their way. I'm sure as hell not saying that. However completely wiping out the Vagan, civilians and all, is a monstrous act. Defeat their military, make them surrender, sign a treaty. That's how it usually goes.

[zerogradius]

Like I posted before, Kio has yet to question why Second Moon is in Earth's orbit, even though the Mar's rays killing Lu was the primary reason for his no kill policy. Why was it only moved now, why not before?

I can't believe people still asking why they can't move Second Moon to earth orbit earlier. It's a simple logic; before, there were Big Ring and sizeable EF forces that stand on its way. And now Big Ring is gone, Vagan has Lagramis and enough forces around earth orbit to cover their own moving home base. Moving Second Moon that close to enemy territory is like a gamble. It must have taking huge amount of resources and probably can't move back to Mars if things don't go as planned. Similar situation with Frontier fleet breaking through Vajra home planet and landed the colony there in Macross F. It's one thing that you will only do in a final phase of the operation, because there's no turning back.

I think the problem people have with your explanation is that prior to AGE-1's roll out, there wasn't any military tech in the Earth Sphere that could offset the massive technological advantage the Vagans got from the EXA-DB. All they had to do was bring the colony to Earth, decloak, and have a few battleships and Gafrans around to deal with any Federation forces sent their way. Eventually the military would admit that they had no way to deal with the threat and the politicians would figure it would be easier to let them stay there than fund a costly arms build up to deal with squatters.

Exactly. Instead of spending so many years launching attacks against civilians, all they had to do was send Second Moon to Earth once they had their fleet of MSs that were more advanced than anything the EF had. And even if they could not return to Earth for whatever reason, they could have at least moved out of Mar's orbit to get away from those dangerous rays. However, not a single Vagan has questioned any of this, nor has Kio, knowing what Ezelcant's crazy plan is.

I don't hate him choosing not to kill, but for it to be the main characteristic of the primary character, it has to be handled well, and thus far it hasn't. Kio keeps outstretching his hand to the Vagan, and no one is accepting, not one. There needs to be characters like Tsukumo and Yukina from Nadesico or Lady Diana from Turn A for such ideals to have merit, he can't do it all by himself, and that's where his actions fall flat.

[Chris]

"They did it first" is playground logic. I've never had a teacher who accepted that excuse.

But if you think that way, then I guess you think Patrick Zala was completely justified in firing GENESIS at Earth.

No one is saying that the Federation should let the Vagans have their way. I'm sure as hell not saying that. However completely wiping out the Vagan, civilians and all, is a monstrous act. Defeat their military, make them surrender, sign a treaty. That's how it usually goes.

We're not talking about playgrounds, and personally I don't care at all what some teacher would say when I'm defending myself from someone who is attacking me. Their opinion is completely irrelevant. And Patrick Zala is a completely different situation. Earth is not united in SEED and the attack on Junius Seven was carried out by the Atlantic Federation specifically. However, in AGE we've never seen any indication that there are Vagans who oppose Ezelcant's publicly stated plans to conquer Earth.

Also....

Spoiler

I don't know how accurate this is, but I've seen claims that in the PSP game the war continues for another 25 years before it completely ends, so what exactly will Kio's preaching accomplish?