The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

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YazanGable
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by YazanGable » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:58 pm

The problem is, we can't even really say Shanalua was a victim of Federation corruption. Her backstory is so vague beyond "Sick sister, no moneys" we can't really say if the EF actually dicked her or she simply, for reasons known only to herself, decided to take the Vagans' comically played straight bag of gold.

While Spriggan's backstory probably got more time than was necessary, it was a much clearer case of faults in the system than Shanalua's, which feels more like a plot hole the more you think about it.

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HellCat
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by HellCat » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:20 pm

With Shanalau, I'm more wondering why she's all but vanished from the plot. She mentors Kio and the circumstances of her death give Kio his first sign that this war isn't as simple as Flit makes out, shaking him considerably. But he doesn't seem to make any connection between her and Spriggan and she doesn't even appear in the 'Those we've lost' segment of the OP.

Seriously, it's like she never existed.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Janx_Dolaris » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:38 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Here is a vote against, it is more powerful to show feddie corruption when it happens to more than one person rather than only one.
The commander of the moonbase, and the leader of the federation that Flit booted dont count as corruption?

I think having 1 strong story of fed corruption is better than a vague-maybe corruption story and one shoe-horned into the final stretch for a character that doesnt seem too important otherwise.
HellCat wrote:With Shanalau, I'm more wondering why she's all but vanished from the plot. She mentors Kio and the circumstances of her death give Kio his first sign that this war isn't as simple as Flit makes out, shaking him considerably. But he doesn't seem to make any connection between her and Spriggan and she doesn't even appear in the 'Those we've lost' segment of the OP.

Seriously, it's like she never existed.
Its the same case with Wootbit. They both had their episode or two to shine, then prompty were swept under the rug.

Also, what happened to the black tri-star rip off guys, aren't some still alive?
Last edited by Janx_Dolaris on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

YazanGable
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by YazanGable » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:39 pm

It seems like her entire purpose in the first place was to instill in Kio "The enemy are humans too" and "People die in war"

Once she said those pieces, she buggered off.
...only to have other people reiterate those points and stay with him longer.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by zetatype » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:51 pm

After, watching the past 2 episodes of AGE and seeing Kio adopting the Kira no kill policy I have to this. Say what you will about Kira and his haux Freedom Gundam, at least he never bothered wasting time trying to talk the enemy down in the middle of a fire fight ( at least this is the case with SEED, not sure about DESTINY).
DuelGundam2099 wrote:Here is a vote against, it is more powerful to show feddie corruption when it happens to more than one person rather than only one.
Maybe I'm misreading this, but Sprig and Shan are victims of those who are corrupted not those who are corrupted themselves. Also, if they wanted to have more than one person they should have put them into separate generations for two reasons.

1) Having two of this type of character in the same generation would be redundant and unnecessary

2) With only twenty episodes to work with, it would be harder to properly develop both of these characters and the result would probably be two mediocre characters. I would rather have one well written character rather than two poorly written characters.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by halo1000 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:53 pm

YazanGable wrote:While Spriggan's backstory probably got more time than was necessary, it was a much clearer case of faults in the system than Shanalua's, which feels more like a plot hole the more you think about it.
Personally I don't think they said the name Girard Spriggan nearly enough times in that last ep.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by ShadowCell » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:58 pm

zetatype wrote:After, watching the past 2 episodes of AGE and seeing Kio adopting the Kira no kill policy I have to this. Say what you will about Kira and his haux Freedom Gundam, at least he never bothered wasting time trying to talk the enemy down in the middle of a fire fight ( at least this is the case with SEED, not sure about DESTINY).
that's because Kira never had to try. he just coasted through on the "I Win" button. AGE, for all its faults, has at least forced Kio to try. the Farsia and Thielva have been kind of smacking him around, which is an oddly underwhelming way to introduce us to the new protagonist Gundam.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by YazanGable » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:18 pm

ShadowCell wrote:
zetatype wrote:After, watching the past 2 episodes of AGE and seeing Kio adopting the Kira no kill policy I have to this. Say what you will about Kira and his haux Freedom Gundam, at least he never bothered wasting time trying to talk the enemy down in the middle of a fire fight ( at least this is the case with SEED, not sure about DESTINY).
that's because Kira never had to try. he just coasted through on the "I Win" button. AGE, for all its faults, has at least forced Kio to try. the Farsia and Thielva have been kind of smacking him around, which is an oddly underwhelming way to introduce us to the new protagonist Gundam.
To be fair...that's actually kind of how it was with Kira in SEED.

Like Kio, he powered through grunts without breaking a sweat, but once he got hit with the Druggies, he actually started taking hits.

It doesn't show quite as much because he had more consistent backup in similar high-end units, where Kio gets sporadic assists from his father and grandfather in older units.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:21 pm

1) Having two of this type of character in the same generation would be redundant and unnecessary

2) With only twenty episodes to work with, it would be harder to properly develop both of these characters and the result would probably be two mediocre characters. I would rather have one well written character rather than two poorly written characters.
And these are issues because....

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Amion » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:03 pm

I don't see why everyone acts as though Shanalua was in herself a bad character. I remember everyone talking about how she was the best female we had so far in AGE, and how she needed to stay alive. Her flaw was mostly a bad backstory and usage. Change that, and we wouldn't be wanting Spriggan to fuse with her character.

My point: why not have both?

And in IMHO, I think having Lu as Shanalua's young sister would have been an excellent choice, if done properly. I mean, they even look the same, and it would have forced Shanalua back into the plot even after death, while at the same time making her Vagan, and thus giving us the first purely kind Vagan we could sympathize with.

Any takers on this idea?
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Chris » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:17 pm

Amion wrote:And in IMHO, I think having Lu as Shanalua's young sister would have been an excellent choice, if done properly. I mean, they even look the same, and it would have forced Shanalua back into the plot even after death, while at the same time making her Vagan, and thus giving us the first purely kind Vagan we could sympathize with.

Any takers on this idea?
That makes absolutely zero sense. If Shanalua was a Vagan, why would she have to betray the Federation for money? She would've just been a Vagan infiltrator, so her back story would make no sense. Also, she'd be doing all that for nothing since there's no cure for the Mars Rays.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Janx_Dolaris » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:43 pm

Amion wrote:I don't see why everyone acts as though Shanalua was in herself a bad character. I remember everyone talking about how she was the best female we had so far in AGE, and how she needed to stay alive. Her flaw was mostly a bad backstory and usage. Change that, and we wouldn't be wanting Spriggan to fuse with her character.

My point: why not have both?
Because one of them died off so sortly after being a good character, and the other one feels awkwardly added to the latter end of the series, and will probably be dead in less than 5 episodes too. Characters beyond the Asuno's dont seem to get much developement at all.

But yes, having Shanalua simply be used better would have been good too. I think the reason people would want a merger is that it gave Shana something to do down the road, and Spriggan some reason beyond tossing in another enemy pilot.

I dont see how Lu being her sister would make sense, unless the vagans kidnapped her after. But that would have changed kio's developement.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by daigundam lagaan » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:08 pm

Shanlua should have just been Girard. I mean, with Shanalua, it felt like they were just trying to be stupid. Just give us that hero gone villan for a really screwed up life. Have Shanalua Spriggan with a sick sister testing her X-Rounder powers so she could raise money for her sick sister, and have both her boyfriend and sister get screwed over by the actual plot.
Still waiting on seeing those tears of time.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by HellCat » Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:12 pm

I don't think Shanalau is a bad character, I just think she was very poorly used (a fact the creators lamented on Twitter). Her whole arc was rushed and to add insult to injury there hasn't been any mention of her since, even when Kio keeps having flashbacks to Lu every 5 seconds. At the same time I also like Spriggan as a seperate character.

An idea- keep Shanalu up to the point Vagan capture AGE-3. She's been feeding them information and they've told her it's a capture operation. However when she sees they seem to be conducting the operation in a manner of 'dead or alive', she flies out in her Clanche to try and rescue him. She ends up using it as a shield and Zanald thinks nothing of killing a double agent who has outed herself and seems to leaning towards the Federation in loyalty. She gives Kio the 'dying is no good' speech and he flies into a rage. In anger, he unwittingly taps into his X-Region and puts the heat on Zanald for a bit. However he's clearly not thinking and makes sloppy moves and the AGE-3 is clearly struggling to match his X-Rounder abilities and reaction speeds, which Zanald takes advantage of to disable the Gundam.

Kio is taken to Vagan, pissed off at them but confused over the situation with Shanalau. Things get deeper during his interactions with Lu and slowly he starts to gain an understanding of the war and that there are people suffering on both sides the longer it goes on.

This leaves Spriggan to still stand as a challenge to his ideals. He incorrectly assumes she'll be exactly the same as Shanalau, only to find her experiences have left her bitter and she has no concern for peace but simply vengance. This in turner furthers Kio's resolve because not only are people suffering but the longer a world of war stays reality, the further humanity will slip away from its better instincts and thus kill any chances of a serious push for peace. Knowing that both Vagan and the Federation are quite willing to experiment on their own people also adds high stakes to just how he thinks he can resolve this.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Kei Katsuragi » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:32 pm

HellCat wrote:I don't think Shanalau is a bad character, I just think she was very poorly used (a fact the creators lamented on Twitter).


Where can I find this mystical tweet?

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Amion » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:40 am

Chris wrote:
Amion wrote:And in IMHO, I think having Lu as Shanalua's young sister would have been an excellent choice, if done properly. I mean, they even look the same, and it would have forced Shanalua back into the plot even after death, while at the same time making her Vagan, and thus giving us the first purely kind Vagan we could sympathize with.

Any takers on this idea?
That makes absolutely zero sense. If Shanalua was a Vagan, why would she have to betray the Federation for money? She would've just been a Vagan infiltrator, so her back story would make no sense. Also, she'd be doing all that for nothing since there's no cure for the Mars Rays.
I was talking about completely overhauling her backstory. for example, and particularly the 'betraying the Federation for money' segment. And my point was that her sister would never had been on Earth to start with. On the flip-side, I do see the hole in my argument there. Blasted Mars Rays!

But I still think the effect and altered backstory would be better than what we got. At least she would have a good reason for being a spy, then.
Janx_Dolaris wrote:Because one of them died off so shortly after being a good character
I guess that's true, although there's nothing saying she couldn't just be kept in the series longer. She didn't have to die at not-jaburo.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by mobiusdiablo » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:39 am

HellCat wrote:I don't think Shanalau is a bad character, I just think she was very poorly used (a fact the creators lamented on Twitter). Her whole arc was rushed and to add insult to injury there hasn't been any mention of her since, even when Kio keeps having flashbacks to Lu every 5 seconds. At the same time I also like Spriggan as a seperate character.

An idea- keep Shanalu up to the point Vagan capture AGE-3. She's been feeding them information and they've told her it's a capture operation. However when she sees they seem to be conducting the operation in a manner of 'dead or alive', she flies out in her Clanche to try and rescue him. She ends up using it as a shield and Zanald thinks nothing of killing a double agent who has outed herself and seems to leaning towards the Federation in loyalty. She gives Kio the 'dying is no good' speech and he flies into a rage. In anger, he unwittingly taps into his X-Region and puts the heat on Zanald for a bit. However he's clearly not thinking and makes sloppy moves and the AGE-3 is clearly struggling to match his X-Rounder abilities and reaction speeds, which Zanald takes advantage of to disable the Gundam.

Kio is taken to Vagan, pissed off at them but confused over the situation with Shanalau. Things get deeper during his interactions with Lu and slowly he starts to gain an understanding of the war and that there are people suffering on both sides the longer it goes on.

This leaves Spriggan to still stand as a challenge to his ideals. He incorrectly assumes she'll be exactly the same as Shanalau, only to find her experiences have left her bitter and she has no concern for peace but simply vengance. This in turner furthers Kio's resolve because not only are people suffering but the longer a world of war stays reality, the further humanity will slip away from its better instincts and thus kill any chances of a serious push for peace. Knowing that both Vagan and the Federation are quite willing to experiment on their own people also adds high stakes to just how he thinks he can resolve this.
That would have been a very nice, much better way to handle Shanalua - sadly that isn't what we have. I have to wonder though, why is the writing so subpar? I mean, it could be worse, but after coming off of 00, AGE really isn't living up to its predecessor (Unicorn doesn't count due to still running and being an adaptation). Yeah, the writing staff may be different, but I would think Sunrise or Level 5 would exercise a bit more quality control over the writing.
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Ribbons: *has Newtype-y flash of AGE, of Kio and his UNDERSTANDING replacing his show* I DON'T WANT TO UNDERSTAND!

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by DoubleZero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:04 am

YazanGable wrote: but once he got hit with the Druggies
It's weird that Kira never even spoke to the Druggies. Athrun at least tried to talk to Clotho(after killing Orga).
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:49 am

mobiusdiablo wrote: That would have been a very nice, much better way to handle Shanalua - sadly that isn't what we have. I have to wonder though, why is the writing so subpar? I mean, it could be worse, but after coming off of 00, AGE really isn't living up to its predecessor (Unicorn doesn't count due to still running and being an adaptation). Yeah, the writing staff may be different, but I would think Sunrise or Level 5 would exercise a bit more quality control over the writing.
Perhaps they saved all the juicy bits for the games?
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Sume Gai » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:52 am

mobiusdiablo wrote:I have to wonder though, why is the writing so subpar? I mean, it could be worse, but after coming off of 00, AGE really isn't living up to its predecessor (Unicorn doesn't count due to still running and being an adaptation). Yeah, the writing staff may be different, but I would think Sunrise or Level 5 would exercise a bit more quality control over the writing.
I feel the answer to this question is mostly pacing and time constraints. I feel the Ideas behind the series are good, the basic concepts and a lot of the character arcs are fine in theory. However, these arcs are rushed so that events don't really have the time to build properly; characters are introduced and killed too quickly for us to get comfortable with them; We don't get full explanations for tech or world detail.

Really it's the same trouble that plagued 00 S2 but it hits much harder here. In the end I'm positive This scenario is clearly written for a format with different pacing, most likely a game. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying AGE for a lot of reasons but I can't deny this rather glaring fault.
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