The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Mythgarr » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:03 am

Do we really know that after their reunion, he actually ignores his son and wife? Who knows, he could have been chatting long distance with his wife all the time afterward and play multiplayer WLAN games with Kio in his spare time between battles...
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Strike Zero » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:10 am

Sure, why not? While we're at it, we can also assume that the Baronche is an ancient starship crafted from the derelict remains of Unicron and runs on a magical strawberry engine that craps out flying ponies and rainbows.

I mean, we've never actually seen anything that would substantiate these conjectures, just like how we have no reason to believe, based on everything they've given us so far, that Asemu wouldn't jump straight back into playing pirate after spending a few minutes with his estranged wife, but as we all know, the absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence!

On the other hand, it's a whole lot simpler to just imagine that, yes, Asemu really is that much of an ZOINKS.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by domino » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:22 am

Well, it's all that the AGE writers have bothered to show us of him. He seemed more concerned with getting approval from his father than with catching up with his son and wife.

Unfortunately, we have to assume characterization that the AGE writers simply couldn't be bothered to provide so it's possible that Asemu is still carrying his complex about being the best-pilot-ever and while on the surface he was focused on keeping both sides in a stalemate, he was also getting restless in the peaceful times. This would've made it easier for him to push any desires to return to his family to the back of his mind. It could be supported by the fact that while he does ignore Kio in-person, he places a lot of focus on protecting Kio while in the midst of battle and was willing to do the impossible and break into Second Moon basically all on his own (and again abandon his son shortly afterwards)

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Kei Katsuragi » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:16 am

The more I watch this show, the more useless Asemu feels. He's like a third wheel in the whole tension between Kio and Flit. His whole Generation felt like a third wheel, and entirely useless. What is the point of Asemu!?

I'm wrapping my mind around this and I can't help but feel that from the beginning, the writers of AGE wanted to do something similar to 00, which was to tell a story from three different time frames, and for us the audience to see the growth of a single character (that character being Flit, in this case) from a happy optimistic youth to a bitter old man. I mean, Generation 2 probably would've been better if Flit was the focus the entire time. Then maybe he would have had his grandson/son challenge this new ideals and junk and grow from it. Sacrificing himself, or some jazz to become the savior he wanted to be. I don't know. It's just conjecture, but Flit really feels like the only character isn't useless at this point.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by bullethead » Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:46 am

Kei Katsuragi wrote:The more I watch this show, the more useless Asemu feels. He's like a third wheel in the whole tension between Kio and Flit. His whole Generation felt like a third wheel, and entirely useless. What is the point of Asemu!?

I'm wrapping my mind around this and I can't help but feel that from the beginning, the writers of AGE wanted to do something similar to 00, which was to tell a story from three different time frames, and for us the audience to see the growth of a single character (that character being Flit, in this case) from a happy optimistic youth to a bitter old man. I mean, Generation 2 probably would've been better if Flit was the focus the entire time. Then maybe he would have had his grandson/son challenge this new ideals and junk and grow from it. Sacrificing himself, or some jazz to become the savior he wanted to be. I don't know. It's just conjecture, but Flit really feels like the only character isn't useless at this point.
It helps that he's the a-hole character that is always right. Seriously, aside from the factory mission where he didn't bring the AGE version of SEAL Team 6 to get into the factory, seize the evidence, and get out, the show goes out of its way to show that Flit's approach is the right one and the only way the writers make him look wrong is to make him shout at people.

Let's look his reasoning objectively:
-Killing all the Vagans: Vagans started a war without provocation, massacred unarmed civilians on numerous occasions, refused to negotiate, have repeatedly infiltrated the Federation government and military, and demonstrated a fanatical mindset towards the conquest of Earth. Based on Kio's experience on Second Moon, the entire Vagan populace is fully aligned with Ezelcant, despite not knowing his true intentions, and display little to no capacity for rational thought since they have not moved their colonies away from the radiation source that is killing their population. Destroying the colonies would not only eliminate the majority of their supply and R&D base, but it would cut off the waves of reinforcements they have, allowing the Federation to actually make headway against the enemy and end the war.
-Killing the prisoners*: Given the amount of traitors and infiltrators that the Vagans have cultivated in the Federation ranks, there is no way to guarantee that the Vagan prisoners will actually remain incarcerated. There is a high chance that someone will break them out, allowing the Vagans to regain officers and find out what information has been compromised by the capture of Luna base.
-Using the plasma diver missile: Until Seric found the Vagans' secret passage, the Federation forces weren't making much progress in capturing the base. Destroying it to deny the Vagans a major forward operating base and a significant amount of war material was worth saving the lives of the Federation troops participating in the attack.

TL;DR: Flit only looks bad because TV writers or execs have decided that pragmatism and competence are bad.

As for Asemu, it would've been better if he'd taken over the pirates to serve as a black ops group for the Federation or something and he wasn't obsessed with the "balance of power" idea. Heck, him blowing up Second Moon would give the Luna Base battle some actual relevance, since it would be the start of the Vagans' last stand or something.

*Realistically, I don't think there's anyway the Vagan prisoners would ever arrive on Earth alive, given how many people they killed in their attack. The lack of revenge motivated Federation characters besides Flit becomes rather obvious here, because it seems that no one but him is pissed about the millions of people the Vagans have killed at the start of this generation alone.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by YazanGable » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:01 am

bullethead wrote: -Using the plasma diver missile: Until Seric found the Vagans' secret passage, the Federation forces weren't making much progress in capturing the base. Destroying it to deny the Vagans a major forward operating base and a significant amount of war material was worth saving the lives of the Federation troops participating in the attack.
By the same token
a) As Asemu pointed out, the plasma diver was an untested weapon. Flit's willingness to fire it in an open battlefield kind of undermines the idea that he was thinking of the welfare of his own men if he was willing to use a weapon that could potentially ZOINKS them just so he get rid of the enemy faster.
b) Completely wiping out the base kind of makes the entire fact they got out there feel rather pointless, given they needed it to act as a base of operations for dealing with La Gramis.

Nuking it seemed pragmatic in the short run, but in the greater scheme, you can see how it's a call driven much more by revenge than 'what's the best decision?'
The fact he doesn't even try to argue that he did it to save his men when Asemu calls him on the use of an untested weapon reveals this one.
It's still sloppy writing, but it feels less like the show's taken his side per se and more like they're either unable or afraid to really make him cross that line that would really make everyone look and go "This is going too far."

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Cybaster » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:04 am

Strike Zero wrote:I mean, we've never actually seen anything that would substantiate these conjectures, just like how we have no reason to believe, based on everything they've given us so far, that Asemu wouldn't jump straight back into playing pirate after spending a few minutes with his estranged wife, but as we all know, the absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence!

On the other hand, it's a whole lot simpler to just imagine that, yes, Asemu really is that much of an ZOINKS.
Until Level-5 finally decides to make another Drama CD to patch that hole and show how much he still loves Romary and Kio after 13 years, anyway. X(
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by YazanGable » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:08 am

Cybaster wrote:Until Level-5 finally decides to make another Drama CD to patch that hole and show how much he still loves Romary and Kio after 13 years, anyway. X(
Or, at this point, they just defer to "Buy the game! It's what this whole thing's supposed to be leading to anyway!"

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by domino » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:19 pm

I wonder what Ezelcant was really trying to convince Kio to do? Why was it so important for him that Kio understand the true plight of the Vagan and report it back to the Federation?

I mean, he isn't even very concerned with a peaceful conclusion with the Federation and actually WANTS the war to escalate until the "chosen few" decide to create Eden.

So....what was his plan for Kio again?

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Strike Zero » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:07 pm

Oh, that's an easy one -- Ezelcant believes that Kio is actually the reincarnation of his late son who died several years ago after succumbing to the effects of the Marz Rayz, so it's most probable that he desires to become Kio's father and live together with him and his wife on Earth once he's turned it into Eden.

Which, now that I think about it, is pretty much par the course when it comes to the sanity of his plans in general.
Cybaster wrote:Until Level-5 finally decides to make another Drama CD to patch that hole and show how much he still loves Romary and Kio after 13 years, anyway. X(
As if anybody really cares at this point. Not to mention, the show ending with him and Romary getting back together all hunky-dory would probably be the worst thing they could do for them, since it would permanently solidify Romary's status as a completely useless and worthless character.

...Actually, what the hell am I saying, that bit of business is already dead and done.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Janx_Dolaris » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:38 pm

One thing thats been buggin me the most about Elcazant's power point presentation, is that until the Vagans attacked the earth sphere had had 100 years of peace. The only reason why humanity is fighting again is because Elcazant rallied all the vagans behind him and made them attack earth.

I mean, its like he's trying to create a solution to something that already seems solved. Now sure, there might have been major war in earth sphere some time in the future, but he doesn't know that. 100 years of no war is a pretty big deal for the human race. There's no evidence of any other big groups that were angry with the federation, the most inner conflict we see is gangsters and pirates.

There may have been alot of corruption, but beyond it involving vagans, there's no evidence to support the federation was being cruel to its citizens in a way similar to other Gundam conflicts.

He would have been better off finding a solution to the Mars Rays.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by kayone73 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:55 pm

Janx_Dolaris wrote:
He would have been better off finding a solution to the Mars Rays.
I think it's implied that the solution to Mars Rays is getting the hell away from Mars.

From a real world science standpoint, it makes sense. We forget the Earth/Moon sphere is protected from intense solar radiation from the Van Allen magnetic belts. These effects are weaker out towards the moon, but still there.

It's been demonstrated that if mars once had a magnetic core, its no longer functional so the planet has no active magnetic belts AFA we know. That's also why its theorized their atmosphere is so thin and worthless, once they lost their magnetic fields, the solar winds destroyed a lot of the atmosphere.

Jupiter OTOH has pretty massive magnetic fields that makes earth's look pathetically small. So again, based on that science, colonies built around the vicinty of Jupiter would be reasonably well protected against solar radiation (as well as being physically further away)...but living around Jupiter probably comes with a whole ton of its own inherent problems.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:23 pm

If the radiation problem is from the sun why call it Mars Rays?

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:25 pm

And there is about a 50 million mile gap between the orbits of Earth and Mars. Lotta space out there to move away from those Mars rays. And don't forget going to join Axis out in the asteroid belt. :)

And to answer your question DG, (sarcasm mode) because these writers are doing their research but they want to put in terms that kids will understand.
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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by kayone73 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:30 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:If the radiation problem is from the sun why call it Mars Rays?
Like Arbiter says...cause its a cartoon, not a space science lesson TV show.

and from a space standpoint, 50 million miles unfortunately isn't that big a distance when it comes to solar flare radiation. Mars is still considered relatively close to the sun despite man's inability to get to the Red Planet quickly.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Shinji103 » Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:40 pm

Chris wrote:OMG YOU'RE EXPRESSING YOUR INCREDULITY BY WRITING "SERIOUSLY."
.....and it took one sentence for me to lose respect for you. You pick one word I type and try to mock with it?
You sound like a 10-year-old schoolyard bully here. Sorry to say it.
Emotional connections? Mimicking real people? Feeling sympathy for them? Nope, AGE is not that show, sorry. I don't feel anything for any of these characters. So many things that people do in this show make no sense in any "real" way. So when someone rants and raves about genocide, I don't really give a damn because everyone in this world is pretty moronic. I don't really care if everyone in AGE dies.
Well I can't help it if it didn't work for you. I just know what the point of writing a story is, to pull in the reader/viewers with a gripping story and characters that makes you care what happens. Whether that succeeded in your eyes or not, or even in general to the overall fanbase, is beyond my control. But it doesn't change the fact that part of writing a story is to make us care about/relate to the characters.

domino wrote:Are you on crack or something Shinji103?

I was replying to zerogradius' post which was immediately before mine. That certainly does not count me as being "vehemently agitated by Kio".

Take a couple prozacs, buddy
And you.......sound excessively abusive. Verbally, anyway

I know you were replying to somebody else's post. When you use words like "absurd" to describe somebody's actions that you don't agree with, it strongly suggests you have a big distaste for said actions/thoughts. I was posting my own disagreement with Kio's plan being so "absurd." He's certainly not wrong. It may be naive and unrealistic, but he's fully aware it wouldn't be easy.

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Let me see if I can see this argument clearly.

Side 1: Who cares about Flit's intentions? He has not done anything!

Side 2: Who cares if Flit did not do anything? He has intentions!

I do not suppose there is any middle ground on this?
Essentially..............yeah, pretty much. ^^b

I don't expect Flit to really commit mass murder any more than I expected Yurin and Wolf to survive generations 1 and 2, respectively. Which is to say, not bloody likely. They'll come up with some last minute reason for him to see the error of his ways. (forced or not, who knows with the way the writing has been suffering lately, Zeheart anyone? >.>)
But I still find the idea of anybody proposing genocide to be very distasteful. I'm not a big fan of that type of person. :P

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by zerogradius » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:07 pm

But it doesn't change the fact that part of writing a story is to make us care about/relate to the characters.
But Age hasn't given us much reason to care about the characters, especially the Vagans. They started a war after a hundred years of peace in which they attacked unarmed civilians and continued to do so even after Ambat was destroyed. Since then, the Vagans have been shown to be nothing but a bunch of zealots who unquestionably follow the directives of a genocidal madman who made them go through a decades long war just to wipe most of them out. Even the most sympathetic of the Vagan main characters, Zeheart, questioned Ezelcant for only 2 minutes before a flashy graphics showcase made him just as genocidal, which spat in the face of the caring commander role he had been playing up till then.

If time had been taken to humanize the Vagan and make them individuals with different ideals, some of which clashing with Ezelcant, then it would be a different story, but most of them seem like carbon copy proponents for murder on a world wide scale. Feeling sympathy for them is like caring about Cobra from G.I. Joe, or any other generic Saturday morning cartoon villain.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by ShadowCell » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:10 pm

Zeheart's stunning failure of critical thinking is all his own, but i think people are expecting a little too much from a people that live in poverty with ubiquitous disease and are ruled by a government that's obviously lying to them and apparently maintains a pretty powerful cult of personality, such that it doesn't occur to people to consider that they are lying. i mean, that sort of thing's not unheard of in the real world.

i guess if you want to come to all the worst conclusions possible, you're going to no matter what...

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by zerogradius » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:56 pm

What you're saying about the Vagan is true, but no one in their society seems to disagree with anything Ezelcant says or does. That's the part I find unbelievable, especially when you consider the sheer number of decades the war is taking and the fact that the medicine for the Mars rays is not being made available to the entire populace.

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Re: The Official Gundam AGE Anime Thread AGE-7

Post by Chris » Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:25 pm

Shinji103 wrote:
Chris wrote:OMG YOU'RE EXPRESSING YOUR INCREDULITY BY WRITING "SERIOUSLY."
.....and it took one sentence for me to lose respect for you. You pick one word I type and try to mock with it?
You sound like a 10-year-old schoolyard bully here. Sorry to say it.
And when you start your response with "Seriously?" you sound pretentious and self-righteous talking about the evils of a genocide that hasn't happened in a fictional story. I don't care if you have no respect for me because I don't need it. If you think my comment is like a schoolyard bully, you're just being too sensitive or trying to turn this around to make me look like a jerk.
Shinji103 wrote:Well I can't help it if it didn't work for you. I just know what the point of writing a story is, to pull in the reader/viewers with a gripping story and characters that makes you care what happens. Whether that succeeded in your eyes or not, or even in general to the overall fanbase, is beyond my control. But it doesn't change the fact that part of writing a story is to make us care about/relate to the characters.
You're just repeating what you said before without making a point. Those are all the goals of a good story, but to me AGE hasn't accomplished that. So if every last Vagan is mercilessly slaughtered or Kio takes a bullet to the head (how I wish it were so), I don't care.

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