Official After War Gundam X Thread

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Amion
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:53 pm

I believe my distaste for Estard is simply because of the timecrunch, but I digress, I need to watch it again before passing judgement.

I take it as the Frost Brothers simply looking the whole entire time for someone to test the Newtypes against, they never went full out I don't believe except at the beginning, and at the end. I also think they really had some true moments where they eximplify just what some people would be like if they were degraded as 'Useless Category Fs". They are evil, but part of them is twisted and hurt by being shunned in a world that prizes and even worships Newtypes. They're not normal, yet aren't special enough, leaving them in a lonely world of two. It's like Tiffa mentions, if they had only gone to DOME, they may have averted their plans and found peace, which I personally believe they still find, at the cost of Shagia's body.

That, or we don't see the end because they whip out guns and put an end to Tiffa and Garrod....seriously I always felt strange about how it....ended. I could just see the sun setting, and then *Shot*. So tragic it didn't get aired.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:08 pm

I'm going to post this here, because while it has to do with Crossbone Gundam and my thoughts on it, both surprisingly, really hit the nail on the head about what Newtypes are, and how I, and apparantly Tomino and others view them in context to how the show presents them.

First, I want to thank Shadowcell for saying he loved Crossbone gundam so much. That is simply the best manga I think I've read from start to finish so fast and with such pleasure, not a moment felt wasted, save the first chapter, which for some reason put me off. I persevered though, and ever since Dogatie in his Aquatic Throne I've been increasingly impressed.

She show has its issues, Tobia's determination to avoid killing people is enough to make me pull my hair out, but even so he manages to impress me with his capableness outside combat, he really reminds me of Uso in that regard, only more intelligent and without the strange chick-magnet effect.

At first I was confused why Seabook was given a new name, but this surprised me pleasently as an actually very important plot-point. The story has characters finding themselves and their places in the world, it's a touching thing, especially how Seabook and Bera step off into the forest and disappear. Maybe they end up finding Shiro and Aina's cabin. :P

I loved the earlier mobile suit designs, the Elfante especially, just so bad, it's good. The later designs dragged a bit, besides the Quavarze. The final battle more than makes up for lackluster lateshow designs, as Dogatie's personal machine has an awesome surprise debut. Sure I was expecting one, but a whole battalion of those things?!?! My goodness that was an awesome moment, and all the more so since Divinidad is a name that couldn't get more perfect.

I'm still on Fort Severn arc, so more about Crossbone's Newtype reflections and X's own when I get to it. :D
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:15 am

Amion wrote: The show has its issues, Tobia's determination to avoid killing people is enough to make me pull my hair out,
You just killed Crossbone for me. :D
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:15 pm

It works out though, because ultimately he stops worrying about it. It doesn't come off like other shows, and in the end he does kill people, just not anyone important. He fights with a lot of desperation too, and a good deal of pilots survive simply because they're just good enough, or in Kagatie's case, the Divinidad is a mobile armor done right.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by LightningCount » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:30 pm

Amion wrote:I'm still on Fort Severn arc, so more about Crossbone's Newtype reflections and X's own when I get to it. :D
Really good arc, IMO. To this point, the series was really humming with one hit after another for me. For some reason, I always think of the Vertigo (or is it Bertigo?) as X's Tallgeese. Paturia's a beast, and reminds me of the Dark/Devil Gundam. (Part of why I sometimes call X a mix of Wing and G). It's the kind of MA that could be used in a finale.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:08 am

The (Checks MAHQ) Bertigo does have a lot of Tallgeese aspects. But I would propose that just like the Virsago, which is a twisted Altron/Epyon hybrid, the Bertigo is a Tallgeese/Qubeley. And it's all the more awesome for being both.

I'm looking forward to the Petulia, that thing was a monster. Have we ever actually gotten a mobile armor as threatening as that before?
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Khandri » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:12 pm

The Bertigo is easily one of my favorite non-Gundam mobile suits of all time (and I hate that we've never gotten any real model kit for it, because it's one I'd really like to have). It's got those sleek curves, but it's still incredibly imposing with its big shoulders. I too would compare it more to the Qubeley in terms of its design and its purpose in being a primarily Newtype-use mobile suit equipped with the bits.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:15 pm

Finally finished the Fort Severn arc. I still think it is the best arc of the series, and noticed things I dismissed before.

First off, it struck me when Jamil shouted about the future to the professor, as it is the earliest hint I can remember of his vision that becomes a major development for him and Lancerow down the long road.

The Petulia's entrance was as epic as before, if only it wasn't basically a battleship and therefore was easy to board and then steal its primary power source.....gee, mobile armors get the short end of the stick all the time don't they? At least I have my Divinidads. :twisted:

It strikes me how much emotional weight the story has in Fort Severn, yet is so sorrowfully lost due to the bland animation's presentation of it. That moment when Caris said, "I'm a fool, shoot me", and then opened the hatch was tense and very impactful, yet could have been even more so if only there was more depth.

In the end, X's biggest flaw that has become quite apparent is its lack of polish. It needs that polish that Wing has, that extra mmph to grip you. With its more fantastic storyline, this is even more necessary for X than Wing, because it relies on the imagination and sweeping vistas of the scene at hand to make up for its lack of political kaleidoscoping. It's a real waste and shame, and hopefully it will become far, far less noticeable as I go. If only I got my two seconds with whoever made decisions about funding X, and I'd be happy *and probably on death row*. Heh, makes me hope Thundermuffin will mention something along these lines when Amuro's team reaches "The Top."

The best scene of the arc was probably Caris walking away, as it felt refreshing and crisp. Despite the hardship everyone suffered, Caris is returning to try and make amends, and everyone more or less ends up agreeing to the decision without tearful or cheesy farewells.

Olba and Shagia just looove hanging ominously in the background with knowing hints about their 'Plan', don't they? :P Looking forward to seeing them back in action, and possibly some of these designs like the Bertigo and Patulia *hey I can hope can't I?* in Build Fighter. :D
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:07 pm

Finally got back to X and watched the ocean arc from the white dolphin to the sea of Lorelei. The ocean saga seems to be the highpoint of the animation for me, it just flowed better than usual, particularly the final episode with Lorelei, even if it was somewhat odd at times.

On a minor quibble, the music for the dolphin arc was a tad cheesy at times, I almost think that particularly soundtrack would have done better with Lorelei.

Olba fought pretty good this time around, his claw attacks seem to grapple underwater, the impediment of submersed combat must slow the other Gundams down a tad I suppose.

It seems to me that the After War Federation and SRA used Newtypes for militant purposes more than just about any UC show to date, at least the Federation did. They have DOME, Operation L that basically administrated the Flash System, from what it sounds like, and could even shut down electronic equipment, and last but not least the Gundam's themselves with their bit MS. The Patulia seems kinda underpowered in comparison.

Next up, Enil El I believe, and the Double X's eventual appearance.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Mythgarr » Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:01 am

I really hope that Build Fighter would be a hit with fans so that X would get more recognition and wider fandom it deserves
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Khandri » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:53 pm

^ This is my hope as well. I'm thrilled that Build Fighters is featuring a modified GX when they could've easily pulled from any of the other AU series like G or 00 instead (since SEED and Wing are already being represented), and I'm even more pleased that the HGAW Double X is among the first kits that'll be released as part of the new All Gundam Project. Combine this with the Robot Damashii Double X released this summer (just got mine delivered the other day!), and it feels rather like Bandai and Sunrise are starting to remember that hey, this show exists, and one has to wonder if they might be setting up for something what with all of these happening within a few months of each other.

That said, I'm still holding out hope for it to end up on Daisuki at some point (if ZZ can get on there...), and maybe, just maybe, even a Blu-ray remaster. Even if the latter were Japan-only and no subs, I'd probably still shell out the money for something like that.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:17 pm

You know, this only just now struck me, but I can't help but believe Unicorn's author might have gotten inspiration for Laplace's Box from that episode with Lorelei. It's probably just coincidence, but something about a that box floating beneath the ocean with an L on its surface just struck a chord there. I don't even know what Laplace's Box looks like, but I wonder if the idea might have germinated off that somewhere down the line. I know I get inspiration from stuff I remember years later and turn into a full fledge story or plot device, could this have been a possible influence? I doubt it, but it is a very interesting coincidence, especially when remembering the box is a giant newtype use system.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:37 pm

It's an interesting thought, and the similar initial does seem too convenient to be a coincidence. However, given what Laplace's Box actually is (I haven't read the novel, but I've read enough to know roughly what it is...), I doubt there was really all that much that was drawn from X.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:29 pm

I meant inspiration for ideas, not really an true concept of design like the Strike being based off the RX-78. I could see someone looking at the box and then later come up with the name Laplace Box, even if the true nature of the thing in question is different, the name might have gotten inspiration from a box under the sea with an L marked on it.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by LightningCount » Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:42 pm

Yeah, I noticed an uptick in the animation of the Ocean Arc, as well. Olba really does seem dangerous in this arc, and the incidental characters like the sea captain that's eventually taken out by the Frosts are memorable in design/personality. I really like the underwater MS in this series...though, I tend to like them in most series. Nevertheless, these seem the most practical in design outside of the underwater MS in Wing. I like that the Leopard gets special equipment, too. The one thing I'll say about the Ocean Arc, though, is that it felt like a step down after Fort Severn in terms of pacing. (Perhaps this was inevitable and necessary). But it does great world building, so it fits in the grand scheme of the series.

I don't have as good of a recollection on these episodes, but I remember feeling that the Lorelei part ended a bit anti-climatically or that I would have wanted it explored more. But again, I can't remember the specifics, and I could be totally off on that. The idea of Lorelei itself, with the lines spoken by the Dr. Techs, was all a sign of good writing in this series, however, trying to create a bigger historical tapestry.

EDIT: Is it just me, or did you forget to mention the one episode transition arc (ep.15) centering on Roby and Witz? That was one of the best episodes in the series. The ability to separate and focus on individual characters and world building is a strength of X, like Wing before it. It has a certain wistful philosophical tone in the end, too. This episode has it all--animation, emotion, action, character development. It tends to remind me a little of the episode where Kiki's village is attacked in 08th MS Team.

And yes, nothing new, but I would welcome an official video release, DVD or Blu-Ray, that has been remastered. If nothing else, I'll accept just subtitles at this point.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by SpideyWing » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:13 pm

Khandri wrote:the HGAW Double X is among the first kits that'll be released as part of the new All Gundam Project. Combine this with the Robot Damashii Double X released this summer
Wait, wait, wait...there's a HG Double X on the horizon? Well, I guess the moon will always be there...with more of my money. XD

On a pure toy nerd note: How is the Robot Spirits Double X? I've debated getting one, myself.
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:29 pm

Yeah, now that you mention it, I actually did miss that one. Somehow I ended up waiting a couple months on the ocean saga and completely skipped over that episode. But that's fixed now, and it was actually even better than I remember. Witz's brother looked strangely different from everyone though. I guess their dad looked like him or something?

Roybe's portion was hilarious, and it actually was a good set-up with him lying about a sick girl only to find out that the woman he went to meet really was dead. I wonder if she was a newtype soldier from the war? Doubtful, but one can always put such into it if one wishes to. How did she get it, after all?

More importantly, exactly how did Witz end up with his Airmaster? Was the vulture crew wiped out? That would makes sense given he calls it a memento and might explain why he was so quick to leave the Frieden early on. On the other hand, maybe that was just one big vulture crew and they're the ones who ended up with all the other Gundams we don't see. :wink: "The Airmaster? Don't you want this awesome supergundam instead? It's the only special one we have. You don't? Fine, I guess it'll be relegated to some sidestory no one will read..." :mrgreen:
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Sat Sep 28, 2013 12:46 pm

I finally get to this, after watching the entire Zonda Epta arc through Garrod getting into space.

So I didn't enjoy Zonda Epta quite as much as before. Glaring plotholes and all kept getting to me. Where did those snipers go? Did they leave after Katokk blinded them? Really now. Aimzat also kinda failed when he didn't just kill everyone right off, and Enil El betrays everyone for no reason and then helps later when she realizes the evil New Federation don't care about her.

Regardless of that, we do get the Estard Arc, and now either because I'm more mature, or because I wasn't in too much a rush for the show to head spaceward, I enjoyed the Estard arc more than just about any other part so far. There's a lot to glean here, particularly backstory of different characters. Hearing about all the possible newtype pilots and their respective personalities make we wish for a prequel detailing the Seventh Space War in full. There are numerous elements X only touches on, and it would be nice if they got flushed out. Sure we know how the war ends, but we still don't know enough about the characters who participated in it.

After going over Estard, I think the biggest issue with X is that it is indeed episodic. Everything is disconnected, which isn't a particularly bad thing, so long as we get to catch up or be reminded of things happening elsewhere. The show desperately needed more time to focus on each place, or at least have points where it refocused. When it did, such as the Roybe and Witz episode, the show really picked up. The sadly mediocre fighting could easily have been swapped in more episodes than I care to remember for more quality character exposition, or better yet exposition with action.

For instance, where is Ceris and what is he doing? It would have been nice to see more of him, and more of the Vultures. Heck, I would really have liked to see more of Bloodman's work, and perhaps Aimzat. Wing gave us the political spectrum in full, and focused on the characters moving it. X tries to give us character development, but does it in blips of insight followed by long periods of no substance. Why not show us more of Bloodman's actions? It would have made me care far, far more to have him finally meet up with the Freiden gang.

Another thing I noticed is the Frost Brother's supposed incompetency. It is true, they don't tend to win very many battles, and when they succeed in a kill, it is through assassination. However, the more I observe their actions, the more convinced I am that they were never meant as true ace tier threats. They work their best in the shadows, manipulating the New Federation almost single-highhandedly into what they want. They do actually get into positions to kill the Gundam pilots, but as is made perfectly clear in the Estard arc and Newtype lab episode, they really didn't want to kill them, since Garrod was their Newtype killer they'd groomed from the beginning.

I think I enjoyed the episodes following Estard as much if not more than Estard itself. As stated, Estard is the high-point, and so far it has only stayed high. I really think this was a case where the show as truly picking up its steam and would have accomplished more if allowed to continue. Regardless, I would have liked to see more of the lab technicians, because for once, they don't seem to be cruel mad scientists trying to create artificial teenage basketcases! :D

Uuuuunfortunately the Frost Brothers were deemed useless to their needs and thus had to suffer what all must when double-crossed by them, that is, they get betrayed and blown up. I liked the talk with the head doctor, and the director who funded the operations seems to be a nice man, confronting his leader in space about why they have to hide Tiffa.

Speaking of the colonies, I think they did the most beautiful and surreal sunset I think I have ever seen on a colony, with the clouds stationed in a long pillar in the center and having the light slowly fade out there. Lancelow Dowel has made his appearance, and aside from the red hair, doesn't really have anything to do with Char than the Red Baron does. Sure there are tiny similarities, but nothing substantial. He's more of a Chronicle Asher to me than anything else, if not his own character. But alas, he has red hair so he is forever branded with comparisons.

The G-Falcon saves the Double X from the oh-so scary Vulcan fire! My word, those things are useful after all! Outside Zeta at least. But then, Monoeyes abound in X too, so of course Vulcans are super effective. :)
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by Amion » Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:20 pm

Well I finally finished the series again, and enjoyed the scenes with DOME immensely. Not much to say on the ending, it was rushed, but still held up well. I think the end is where the Frost Brother's ineptitude really drives itself home. They had time up until the space arc to redeem themselves, and as conniving political weasels they come out on top. For the record they do end the Double X, so I guess they managed one big kill.

I still wonder if they arrived to have a peaceful discussion with Garrod and Tiffa, or just attempt to shoot them. I guess I'll never know...
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Re: Official After War Gundam X Thread

Post by LightningCount » Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:46 pm

Amion wrote:Well I finally finished the series again, and enjoyed the scenes with DOME immensely. Not much to say on the ending, it was rushed, but still held up well. I think the end is where the Frost Brother's ineptitude really drives itself home. They had time up until the space arc to redeem themselves, and as conniving political weasels they come out on top. For the record they do end the Double X, so I guess they managed one big kill.

I still wonder if they arrived to have a peaceful discussion with Garrod and Tiffa, or just attempt to shoot them. I guess I'll never know...
Congrats on finishing it. I told you that Estard Arc was pretty amazing. Just a lot of good elements and layering mixing together from multiple angles, giving one a culmination of what was and what was yet to be.

Regarding the ending and these latter arcs you spoke of, I'm going to repost an old rundown where I speculated what might have been with the full run. To this day, I still have regrets that Gundam X was cut short, but I'm happy it managed to pull things together enough for a respectable ending. If I didn't know it was cut short, I wonder if my views would be different? Nevertheless...

I think around the Estard Arc is when the series got cut down, because there have been talks (even design specs?) of Ennil getting an Esperanza-upgraded Gundam, and after Estard, with the New Federation advancing its forces, we have her combating them with a blue Jenice on Saints Island (likely in place of the aforementioned Gundam-type).

More potential evidence/intended direction: I have a feeling the global skirmishes with the New Federation were meant to be played out in more episodes, with Carris' new Vulture Resistance group and (perhaps the recently introduced Estard's Prince Willis?) coming to play larger roles as the Space Revolutionary Army made landings and grabs for power, as well: MAHQ's Episode 30 Review: "In Europe, Bloodman decides to make public the news that the SRA forces still exist. He doesn't want the SRA forces to land in North America and team up with Vultures, so he believes announcing this news will show the people they still have an enemy in space and that the old war isn't over."

And in episode 35, Carris confirms that something along these lines has been developing off-camera*. Speaking of that off-camera Vulture coalition, if it included Fort Severn forces, it'd also make total sense to bring back the surviving Vultures who helped Jamil in the Alternative Arc, especially Roso Intenso, since she seemed to have a thing for Jamil, and it'd bring things full circle.

In all honesty, the writers condensed things so tightly in the last quarter of the series due to episode constraints, that it's hard to know where exactly new episodes would fit. However, it could only have improved upon the very exciting developments that were going on with the politics of the UN and Space Revolutionary Army. (And there'd probably be some more elaborate animation moments, too). If I were to hazard my best guess, I'd say the story between episodes 29 and 36 would have been altered to highlight more dramatically the SRA's coming to Earth and include the "North American opposition forces"* noted by Carris in episode 35, as well as more time with Satellicon and the colony situation in space (maybe 4 to 5 more episodes there?).

Then, the rest of the episodes would be piled on toward the end, between episodes 36 and 39, to flesh out the transition to, and execution of, the story/battle of the DOME arc. In these episodes, also, I'd imagine there'd be more use/development of Paula, Lancerow, Nichola, and Ennil, as well as the other G-Falcon combos only teased at in episode 36 ("Kid shows Pala a computer illustration showing that the G-Falcon can combine with all the Old UNE's Gundam types. It can combine with the Airmaster Burst for high mobility, or it can combine with the Leopard Destroy to make it capable of flight."--GX MAHQ Review).

Regardless, with what's in Gundam X as it was, I still think it's really enjoyable and memorable. I think it was really ingenious and ambitious to try to start with a story where a world has no rules, and build toward one where order returns by force and people have to struggle to figure out what the right new world setup should be. It creates a nice disparate-to-whole journey/world feeling, too, similar to the later and underrated Zoids: Chaotic Century/Guardian Force anime. You really have to give X credit for it being cut short so late in the game, yet the creators managing to pull together a coherent ending.
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"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone

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