Development of Alternate Universes

[farjad93]

So, I was wondering, the UC timeline of the Gundam franchise is very well-developed with numerous TV series, OVAs, movies, manga, etc. while the alternate universes tend to have only a single TV series with perhaps some additional sidestories. So my question is this: what alternate universe timelines would you like to see have more development (like getting a new TV series)?

[Mu La Flaga]

After War, it would be nice to see more that universe again.

Cosmic Era.
Would hate to leave this universe with Deatiny as it's final note.

Those would be my 2 choices.

[HellCat]

I actually often wonder why they don't let more AUs spread out. The fact they started the practice clearly shows they know UC is a bit heavy to expect younger audiences to get into, so why even with the successes do they seem desperate to shoot them down? Wing got a movie and based on comments from Mizushima long time Sunrise staff did not like the idea of 00 getting a movie. Presumably SEED just might have broken this had things panned out.

[farjad93]

I personally would really love to see the CE universe get another series, if only to undo Destiny's problems. I really loved the original series and feel there is plenty of potential within the Cosmic Era timeline to support another series. For example, we could skip ahead a few years with Kira head of the ZAFT Miltary and Athrun presumably some Orb officer. Or they could introduce some completely new characters and do a series based on that. As long as they don't repeat Destiny's mistakes, I think a new CE series would be pretty awesome!

I actually often wonder why they don't let more AUs spread out. The fact they started the practice clearly shows they know UC is a bit heavy to expect younger audiences to get into, so why even with the successes do they seem desperate to shoot them down? Wing got a movie and based on comments from Mizushima long time Sunrise staff did not like the idea of 00 getting a movie. Presumably SEED just might have broken this had things panned out.

Maybe the staff knew that the movie would turn out to be less than stellar

EDIT: please use the Edit button instead of double-posting.

~ShadowCell

[ShadowCell]

i am actually okay with AU series not being "developed" the way UC is, seeing as how UC has become a nightmarish mishmash of overdetail, contradictory sources, and confused, obscuring background. it's one of the reasons i appreciate Gundam AGE's minimalist approach to setting and worldbuilding: it builds only what the story needs, so you can fill in anything you like into everything else.

the opposite end of the spectrum, after all, is the Star Wars Expanded Universe, and while UC has a long way to go to get to that level of hell, the farther away you stay from it in the first place, the better.

[farjad93]

Well, I agree with you in that I wouldn't want any of the AU series to get oversaturated with source material in the style of UC, I wish that some of the universes were expanded beyond just a single TV series.

[ShadowCell]

well, most AU shows don't really leave any room for it anyways. G Gundam quite clearly writes a finish to its story by destroying the Devil Gundam and putting Domon and Rain together. Wing all but ruled out future conflicts at the end of Endless Waltz. X ended with Jamil and Lancerow negotiating a peace between the Earth and the SRA and everyone else settling down for some nice happy lives. 00 pretty explicitly ended its story with the end of the movie. the only one that seems to leave any natural room for a sequel is SEED, and since the promised movie has vanished into development hell, well, that's that--and even then, it's not like DESTINY's ending cries out for continuation. i haven't seen Turn A so i can't speak to that. and AGE is ongoing.

and even with all that, if you look beyond animation, Wing has Frozen Teardrop and Glory of the Defeated or whatever it's called. X had Under the Moonlight. SEED and 00 have extensive sidestories. there's like eight different ASTRAY sidestories, plus the MSV game and STARGAZER. 00 has like seven different sidestories. even AGE has had a couple of manga spinoffs so far.

so actually, now that i think of it, it's not like "underdevelopment" is even a problem for the AUs anyways, at least not recently. what they don't have, by and large, is the massive sourcebooks and tech details you find in UC--but like i said, i actually consider that a good thing anyways.

[Ouroboric]

CC for me, I want Tomino to show us Turn A's original story when it

Spoiler

unleashed the moonlight butterfly and practically caused the apocalypse

. I'm always game for more UC, ZZ was the low point, and even that had 20 good episodes in it. I've never noticed anything in UC as contradictory though? Care to give some examples.I've only experienced so much of the Manga and Games, so there is a certain part of it that I just wouldn't know. For me, the 0079-0096 era has such a rich foundation to build upon,I would be happy if they literally covered every year and every conflict in an animated series at some point.

I think they always cover more UC because it is safe, and the more massive it get's, the better for most fans,we thrive off of this huge expansive universe ( and bright slaps of course). UC fans tend to be fans for life, from my experience at least, the market will always be there. Were AU's usually take on the task of trying to appeal to the masses,which often means adopting characteristics that the UC fan's aren't too interested in(pretty boys and goofy Gundam designs to name some of more shallow points). Most AU's are usually gambling at capturing the younger crowd, which is'nt always easy. UC really doesn't need the support of new fans to carry on,not for another 20 years at least.

[ShadowCell]

here's an example: Gundam 0083. you'd think people would have noticed the great big space colony Delaz and his homies left sticking out of the ground in North America.

[Ouroboric]

That's not really a contradiction though, it's not like the colony covered all of North America. It's easy enough to say that they simply never went to that area during Zeta when they met up with Karaba in NA. And we know that the instance sparked Earth Federation support for the creation of the Titans, who needed an excuse to act like they did in Zeta. So while not directly mentioned, it does fit with the story. After all, our protagonists are to per-occupied with the Titans to really care to mention about things that Zeon rebels did 4 years earlier.

[ShadowCell]

Yes, it is a contradiction--or, if you like, a plot hole--because the story passed through North America and there was nary a wayward colony to be found, nor was it ever even mentioned. And it's quite a stretch to think that while everyone is busy fighting the Titans, no one would ever think to mention what caused the Titans to be, while cruising over a location intimately tied to that same thing.

Which is, of course, the problem with these sidestories like 0083 in general: they actually can't be mentioned in the original shows because the original shows were made first, so the sidestories either have to do gymnastics fitting themselves into a story already written, or they have to just ignore the contradictions that occur.

[Ouroboric]

If they said " everything has been fine in America for these last 4 years" that would be a contradiction,or if they stated something that made it impossible for it to have happened, the 0083 writers did their research to make sure it did fit, even though it was'nt taken from Zeta or MSG. I would agree on the gymnastics part, but it doesn't really contradict anything( but this just goes down to semantics really) or make any part of Zeta impossible or vice versa. For all we know it's common knowledge, and no one felt the need to mention it, and it could have been cleaned up/recovered by then, and they just did'nt happen to hit that part of America, they were only there for something 3-4 episodes,it was'nt an extensive ark.Of course the real reason is because the idea did'nt exists yet,but it really doesn't seem like a big deal, or terribly unnatural to me.

[Gatx]

I think they always cover more UC because it is safe, and the more massive it get's, the better for most fans,we thrive off of this huge expansive universe ( and bright slaps of course). UC fans tend to be fans for life, from my experience at least, the market will always be there. Were AU's usually take on the task of trying to appeal to the masses,which often means adopting characteristics that the UC fan's aren't too interested in(pretty boys and goofy Gundam designs to name some of more shallow points). Most AU's are usually gambling at capturing the younger crowd, which is'nt always easy. UC really doesn't need the support of new fans to carry on,not for another 20 years at least.

It's not exactly an expansive universe though. I mean, most of the more widely known UC stories are concentrated between the OYW and CC. Just how many wars and conflicts can possibly have happened, and how many "unique" and "special" Gundams could have possibly been developed in that 13-14 year period.

[Ceiling_Squid]

It's not exactly an expansive universe though. I mean, most of the more widely known UC stories are concentrated between the OYW and CC. Just how many wars and conflicts can possibly have happened, and how many "unique" and "special" Gundams could have possibly been developed in that 13-14 year period.

Exactly. I'd love it if they'd just do some late UC stuff for once, to fill in those giant gaps around F91 and Victory. The UC fan in me would be very excited to see them not retreading the same ground. Early UC is getting overcrowded.

Back on topic though, I can't say that I can complain about AUs being "underdeveloped". I like the self-containedness of most of the AUs. They're more digestable on their own, and tend to have a distinct focus and style. I can't really say that I've really walked away from an AU series wanting a major sequel to it.

That said, while I appreciate that, I also have no issue with UC at present. It's not as bloated as Star Wars, that's for sure. I think it's a got a pretty healthy amount of background, and I like being able to continue digging deeper and still find tidbits I didn't know about the background. I just wish they'd spread out a little, rather than trying to cram more sidestories in the same short period of time.

Hell, I don't even mind the contradictions so much. They're fun to try and fit together. Or, better yet, they give you options when it comes to deciding what version of the canon you prefer as a fan.

[Ouroboric]

I think they always cover more UC because it is safe, and the more massive it get's, the better for most fans,we thrive off of this huge expansive universe ( and bright slaps of course). UC fans tend to be fans for life, from my experience at least, the market will always be there. Were AU's usually take on the task of trying to appeal to the masses,which often means adopting characteristics that the UC fan's aren't too interested in(pretty boys and goofy Gundam designs to name some of more shallow points). Most AU's are usually gambling at capturing the younger crowd, which is'nt always easy. UC really doesn't need the support of new fans to carry on,not for another 20 years at least.

It's not exactly an expansive universe though. I mean, most of the more widely known UC stories are concentrated between the OYW and CC. Just how many wars and conflicts can possibly have happened, and how many "unique" and "special" Gundams could have possibly been developed in that 13-14 year period.

I agree that late UC needs more coverage. But as far as Manga's go there has been a fair amount. And no need for unique or special Gundam's,08th MS Team's signature Gundam was just a modified mass production model after all, and OYW being the large scale war it was has an endless supply of potential side stories. Between Char's Deleted Affair, Advance Of Zeta and Sentinel,you have quite a bit of material that could work for OVA's or series in that time frame. But what really needs to be expanded upon is that gap between F91 and Victory,though I'm not sure if that would ever happen.

I would enjoy a sequel or prequel to X come to think of it,maybe one that jumps into the story quicker and doesn't sacrifice the greater story for character development for so much of the show.

[HellCat]

In terms of 0083, I always felt it was a motive we didn't need anyway. The Earth had just had a bloody war with space colonists, one which had tapped resources and funds, nearly seen the planet conquered and threatened the image the Federation wanted to present to the spacenoids as a mighty force. Is it really that hard to believe that after a few years of getting stuff back in order their first order of business was swift and brutal policing of the colonies?

[farjad93]

Well, looks like I was the only one who wished for more development of the alternate universes (mainly CE, because of Destiny). As for UC, I like how they have fleshed out the details of the time period spanning from the One Year War to Unicorn. There might be the odd inconsistent detail here or there, but overall I never really noticed any glaring contradictions. But one thing about the colony drops in Gundam bothers me: wouldn't dropping an object of such a massive scale affect the whole planet similar to a small asteroid strike? For example, in ZZ Gundam, I'm pretty sure the colony drop on Dublin would have had more catastrophic effects than just wiping out the city ...

[Amion]

Well, looks like I was the only one who wished for more development of the alternate universes (mainly CE, because of Destiny). As for UC, I like how they have fleshed out the details of the time period spanning from the One Year War to Unicorn. There might be the odd inconsistent detail here or there, but overall I never really noticed any glaring contradictions. But one thing about the colony drops in Gundam bothers me: wouldn't dropping an object of such a massive scale affect the whole planet similar to a small asteroid strike? For example, in ZZ Gundam, I'm pretty sure the colony drop on Dublin would have had more catastrophic effects than just wiping out the city ...

This is a question I have been puzzling over too. So long as the colony remained in-tact and didn't become a storm of debris like Junius 7 in Destiny, then the damage should be minimalized. On the other hand, there is such a thing as shock waves. A giant object like a colony should at least cause a tramendous crater I would think, and if it hit near the ocean (like in sydny or dublin) there should be Tsunamis of devastating size, not to mention earthquakes on land.

But this is all conjecture for me. Anyone have a factual explanation?

On topic, I would just love to see a Turn A sequal or prequal. Remember that the colonies were sent out to explore the galaxy. I would be one to think that somewhere down the line a group of them might decide to return as conquerers. We already know they have unthinkable technology, as the Turn X demonstrated. As such, I would like to see an advenced race of humans returning to take back the earth.

That will probably never happen though, considering that we are getting that with AGE as we speak.

[farjad93]

Well, looks like I was the only one who wished for more development of the alternate universes (mainly CE, because of Destiny). As for UC, I like how they have fleshed out the details of the time period spanning from the One Year War to Unicorn. There might be the odd inconsistent detail here or there, but overall I never really noticed any glaring contradictions. But one thing about the colony drops in Gundam bothers me: wouldn't dropping an object of such a massive scale affect the whole planet similar to a small asteroid strike? For example, in ZZ Gundam, I'm pretty sure the colony drop on Dublin would have had more catastrophic effects than just wiping out the city ...

This is a question I have been puzzling over too. So long as the colony remained in-tact and didn't become a storm of debris like Junius 7 in Destiny, then the damage should be minimalized. On the other hand, there is such a thing as shock waves. A giant object like a colony should at least cause a tramendous crater I would think, and if it hit near the ocean (like in sydny or dublin) there should be Tsunamis of devastating size, not to mention earthquakes on land.

But this is all conjecture for me. Anyone have a factual explanation?

On topic, I would just love to see a Turn A sequal or prequal. Remember that the colonies were sent out to explore the galaxy. I would be one to think that somewhere down the line a group of them might decide to return as conquerers. We already know they have unthinkable technology, as the Turn X demonstrated. As such, I would like to see an advenced race of humans returning to take back the earth.

That will probably never happen though, considering that we are getting that with AGE as we speak.

Depending on the size of the colony, the force unleashed could be equal to hundreds or even thousands of nuclear bombs. In other words, we'd be saying bye-bye to more than just Dublin or Sydney. Even within the universe, wasn't over half of Earth's population wiped out by colony drops, or am I mistaken? Anyway, back on topic, I absolutely love this idea for a Turn A sequel/prequel. It would be pretty cool. I've always thought that it would be nice if Gundam was a little more adventurous and ventured outside the solar system. Explorers with advanced technology returning to take back the Earth would make for a pretty interesting saga, in my opinion.

[Kratos]

Even within the universe, wasn't over half of Earth's population wiped out by colony drops, or am I mistaken?

You're thinking of the One Week War's total casualty list, not just that of Operation British (the Earth contained a great deal less than half of mankind's population anyways, if I remember correctly). Even then, it's a little ambiguous; the opening narration states that half of each side has been killed, but never really elaborates on what exactly that's supposed to mean, and it seems to generally be accepted to mean half of everybody. This is from Loum, Zeon's initial blitzes, Operation British, etc (and individual statistics seem to be both hard to find and heavily contradictory).

Which, hey, is the topic at hand! The problem with fleshed-out details, as Shadow mentioned, is that different writers have different ideas and then you get a mess. Maybe this is controlled a bit better in, say, actual productions, but it still crops up. 08th MS Team, for example, gives us GMs (and mass produced Gundams!) a while before they were being put on the battlefield. That doesn't make sense, and neither do the more advanced versions of the machines that are being used, and yet it's canon. It's a retcon, but it's a sloppy one, and the only reason it really flew was because it was cool. See also Mark's recent thread about the origins of Mobile Suit development, and the sheer amount of confusion there.

So, no, UC isn't exactly a paragon of canon. A tight, well-plotted story is always better than a sprawling mass, and I think if an AU series has clearly ended (which most of them have), then well enough should be left alone.