Development of Alternate Universes

[ShadowCell]

If anything, only giving Shiro the Gundam and keeping the rest of the team in GM's would enforce the "special" status of that Gundam. Making it mass produced and equal across the board is how you create grunt status.

no it doesn't. it's still a Gundam, just a Gundam that is actually kind of crappy when you compare it to its contemporaries but still gets the name recognition and status that comes with being a Gundam in a franchise where being a Gundam (and not just any Gundam but the Gundam, the one the protagonist pilots) puts you on center stage. that especially sticks out against Mobile Suit Gundam, the show where the Gundam actually plays a pivotal part, in a war in which the Gundam is undeniably special--so special, in fact, that people in the universe are still designing mobile suits after it almost a hundred years later.

for that matter, the AU shows are hardly the only ones that have "overemphasized" the Gundam's being special, and it's something the UC shows have done most of all, albeit in a different way. in fact, you could argue just as well that the AUs are the shows that have "devalued" the Gundam, by having so many at a time.

you seem to mean by the word "grunt" something like "the average soldier," as opposed to the super-skilled Char Aznable kind of ace or the callow youth with psychic powers who accidentally comes to pilot the super-powered Gundam or whatever, and that 08th is all about "the average soldier." but, well, that's just wrong, by your own admission, because these particular "grunts" have their own special corner of the One Year War where they are not being average--unless the implication here is that what's average in the One Year War is in fact to do battle with psycho scientists and more or less sympathetic Zeon aces over a superweapon that might change the course of the war (but doesn't, because we know how it ends, the only question is how) and falling in love with some babe on the other side of the battlefield. in which case we're back on the Star Wars EU track.

of course, 08th MS Team has little choice but to try to make its story unique and dramatic, simply because the average viewer doesn't tune in to watch the average soldier doing average things; the average viewer tunes in to watch extraordinary things--whereby the people who do them become extraordinary themselves. so, within Gundam's framework, you can't really have an "average soldier" story anyways (and that's just as well, because a story that was really about the "average soldier" would be pretty boring, definitely unmarketable, and probably pretty uninformative). but, since you have to make it unique enough to get people to tune in and watch and buy the resulting merchandise, you have to throw in dramatic stakes and new mecha variants and new Gundams and so you go back to the "too much detail" thing.

which means you can't really get away from the problems raised in this thread about expansions like those of the UC OVAs.

[Ouroboric]

But your confusing the ideas that a unit must be overly extraordinary, just because it is the focus of the show.They don't have to go hand in hand.It certainly is more special than a GM,hell they only had 24 or so of them, but it is'nt and by no means should be the Rx-78.You are judging something too harshly just because it does'nt fit the archetype perfectly one way or another. I agree on the Au part, in that they have a weird habbit of making units that are incredibly overpowered, overemphasizing what the Gundam was supposed to be, and then making a ton of them in order to balance out the power differentials between them and the grunts( and for stylish duels), making their existence tedious.I do see your point, Maybe the best way to explain it then is in a three tiered method,rather than just dividing it two ways.

A:Amuro Ray

B:Shiro Amada

C: Cannon fodder (the true grunt)

As you said, you can't make a show about someone who takes out two Zaku's and then leaves for home with injuries(though at this point UC fans would buy it if you changed the GM visor a bit ). But Shiro and the show is still of less importance than Amuro's or Camille's exploits in the big picture of things.

As far as UC overemphasizing Gundams power, not really,the antagonists often had better, non Gundam mobile suits. The Gp03 lost to the Neiu Zeil(spelling),The Alex got it's head chopped off by a Zaku,Ez8 lost to Norris, who took out the Guntanks like he needed to. Qubeley was more powerful than Zeta, and The O lost due to Camille with the bio sensor, which is a newtype thing. ZZ was overpowered,but Qubeley trashed it. Nu barely defeated Sazabi, and really was'nt all that ahead of the Jagd Doga.F91 was'nt that extraordinary save it's cool maneuvers, the V2 had Wings Of Light,beyond that it was not as op as say Wing Zero or Freedom. The RX-78 drew with the Zeong, only because of Amuro's skill.

[ShadowCell]

well, the 08th MS Team is extraordinary, first because the story chooses to focus on them, and second because its members do things that you couldn't reasonably say the ordinary soldier does. falling in love with some babe on the other side, fighting a psychotic scientist with his own superweapon that could change the course of the war, using a weapon that is bound up in the idea of "being special" no matter how unremarkable its performance on the battlefield might be...that kind of unavoidably makes you extraordinary.

08th MS Team can stand or fall on its own merits, but it's really not an "average soldier" story, and it's illustrative of the pitfalls that sidestories face when they try to expand the world by anchoring themselves to stories that have already been written and decided. and like i said, you can't get around that or you get a boring, unmarketable story--which is why i'd rather see Sunrise tend towards the side of not doing it in the first place.

not that they will...

[Ouroboric]

Well they certainly aren't cannon fodder, I suppose it's just more of a change of pace in the direction of being an average soldier,because they certainly don't match Camille using the bio sensor or Amuro stopping an asteroid from hitting earth. I don't think it really hurts the show or the universe at all either, but you are right that it is'nt like watching my Grandpa in WW2 only with mobile suits, maybe the ideas presented by the fanbase give it more emphasis as something it is'nt quite.

[farjad93]

well, the 08th MS Team is extraordinary, first because the story chooses to focus on them, and second because its members do things that you couldn't reasonably say the ordinary soldier does. falling in love with some babe on the other side, fighting a psychotic scientist with his own superweapon that could change the course of the war, using a weapon that is bound up in the idea of "being special" no matter how unremarkable its performance on the battlefield might be...that kind of unavoidably makes you extraordinary.
08th MS Team can stand or fall on its own merits, but it's really not an "average soldier" story, and it's illustrative of the pitfalls that sidestories face when they try to expand the world by anchoring themselves to stories that have already been written and decided. and like i said, you can't get around that or you get a boring, unmarketable story--which is why I'd rather see Sunrise tend towards the side of not doing it in the first place.

You're right in that the 08th MS Team is extraordinary in the things it accomplishes and the situations it falls into. What I meant by normal is that Shiro and the rest of his team are average soldiers in the sense of their abilities. They are most certainly not mobile suit pilots on the same level as the likes of Amuro or Char. That is what I meant when I said they are "normal" soldiers. Also, you keep bringing up UC sidestories to illustrate the point that AUs shouldn't be expanded beyond what has been done so far. But who said that development of AUs, or even UC for that matter, has to be strictly through sidestories? After all, UC has many sequels: Z Gundam, ZZ Gundam, CCA, F91, and Victory Gundam. I haven't watched the last two but I don't believe any of these sequels conflict with each other when it comes to in universe factual details. Even sidestories don't have to be as inconsequential/contradictory as you say they have to be. For example, in the case of a hypothetical sequel for the CE universe, they could first release a sidestory to set up whatever conflict would eventually arise in the sequel. This wouldn't introduce any contradictory information to the CE timeline and wouldn't be inconsequential to the overall bigger picture of the CE universe. I think that, instead of constantly expanding UC, Sunrise should focus on of the AUs for a change.

[VF5SS]

I don't ever notice anything or see any evidence in the series to suggest any of the characters are Newtypes. I therefore assume that they are normal soldiers.

I'm not saying they're Newtypes (except for Shiro and Aina because seriously, two people knowing each other for less than a week and falling in love by meeting again with one person's Mobile Suit grappling the other's Mobile Armor like in Zeta is just shameless copying of Newtype romance), but if there are no other EFF squads that do anything significantly positive on camera then there is nothing really to compare the 08th dudes to. Maybe they're average or maybe not. Considering that their only company in the anime is Guntank pilots who do very little even when their lives are threatened, a GM team that walked into a cave as unknowing bombs, and a few snipers who were pretty good at hitting a huge standing target I'd say the bar is set fairly low.

I feel like this lack of scope makes the 08th Team seem like they're the only ones doing anything, which can easily be construed as making them like the original White Base trio. I can forgive the White Base trio because at the very least, they were the only Mobile Suits the EFF had to field.

What about Norris? He wasn't a main character, yet we see him put his ability and years of battle experience on display.

He's a pretty major antagonist in terms of the setting and is a named ace pilot. What you're suggesting is more like the previously unnamed Byarlant Custom pilot.

I say that I would have to respectfully disagree that the main characters are the only ones who do anything in the series.

Well the other teams certainly make fun of the 08th team a lot. I guess that counts for something.

And battles in most Gundam franchises consist of beam rifle shots flying every which way and beam saber battles. I'm not saying these battles are boring, but I'd hardly refer to them as having "ingenuity". So, compared to any Gundam series I've seen, I'd still have to say that 08th MS Team emphasizes strategy more than other entries in the franchise.

I don't think you quite understand what was so special about how Amuro his adversaries fought in the original Gundam series and movies. By contrast, the 08th team uses pretty standard tactics like "go around to flank someone" or "shoot the nearly stationary Acguy in the head with your gun." Despite some token attempts at militaristic procedure, things still ended in typical melee engagements with beam sabers, severed arms, and other robot approved fighting techniques.

[ShadowCell]

Also, you keep bringing up UC sidestories to illustrate the point that AUs shouldn't be expanded beyond what has been done so far. But who said that development of AUs, or even UC for that matter, has to be strictly through sidestories?

Well, Sunrise did, seeing as how that's what they're making and paying for.

'sides which, the UC sidestories are illustrative of why I'd rather not see Sunrise try to expand the AUs at all, sequels or sidestories. And I think I already mentioned that the AUs as they're currently constituted don't really leave much room for sequels in the first place, so you'd be going back to 0083's "tacked on/unnecessary" problem.

[farjad93]

I don't ever notice anything or see any evidence in the series to suggest any of the characters are Newtypes. I therefore assume that they are normal soldiers.

I'm not saying they're Newtypes (except for Shiro and Aina because seriously, two people knowing each other for less than a week and falling in love by meeting again with one person's Mobile Suit grappling the other's Mobile Armor like in Zeta is just shameless copying of Newtype romance), but if there are no other EFF squads that do anything significantly positive on camera then there is nothing really to compare the 08th dudes to. Maybe they're average or maybe not. Considering that their only company in the anime is Guntank pilots who do very little even when their lives are threatened, a GM team that walked into a cave as unknowing bombs, and a few snipers who were pretty good at hitting a huge standing target I'd say the bar is set fairly low.
I feel like this lack of scope makes the 08th Team seem like they're the only ones doing anything, which can easily be construed as making them like the original White Base trio. I can forgive the White Base trio because at the very least, they were the only Mobile Suits the EFF had to field.

On the issue of Newtypes, I still don't agree with Shiro being a Newtype. If he possessed any Newtype ability at all, he and his team wouldn't have struggled so much trying to stop Norris in the series. I also don't believe that the Aina-Shino romance on its own is valid evidence to suggest they are Newtypes. All the other Newtypes in the series demonstrated exceptional battle ability in addition to having a special connection to other Newtypes. So, as ridiculous as it may seem, I disagree that the Aina-Shino romance is enough evidence to suggest that either one is a Newtype. Also, I don't think that the point of the series was to compare the 08th MS Team to the White Base trio.

What about Norris? He wasn't a main character, yet we see him put his ability and years of battle experience on display.

He's a pretty major antagonist in terms of the setting and is a named ace pilot. What you're suggesting is more like the previously unnamed Byarlant Custom pilot.

What about Aina's older brother (forgot his name) and the Apsalus? I'm sure they were doing nothing the whole series. I know, I know, we know it will fail because we've already seen the original series. But the team still has to stop them. Yes, Norris is a major antagonist, but he's not a main character. And the 08th MS Team really struggled against him, just ONE mobile suit pilot. So, I really don't see how anybody could think anyone on the 08the MS team is a newtype. I still have to disagree that the 08th MS Team is the only that does anything in the series.

And battles in most Gundam franchises consist of beam rifle shots flying every which way and beam saber battles. I'm not saying these battles are boring, but I'd hardly refer to them as having "ingenuity". So, compared to any Gundam series I've seen, I'd still have to say that 08th MS Team emphasizes strategy more than other entries in the franchise.

I don't think you quite understand what was so special about how Amuro his adversaries fought in the original Gundam series and movies. By contrast, the 08th team uses pretty standard tactics like "go around to flank someone" or "shoot the nearly stationary Acguy in the head with your gun." Despite some token attempts at militaristic procedure, things still ended in typical melee engagements with beam sabers, severed arms, and other robot approved fighting techniques.

Well, I never said that Amuro and Char's encounters in the original series weren't special. They are. All I meant is that most battles in the Gundam franchise are usually all-out head-on confrontations. Which is fine, it's still a lot of fun to watch and there's nothing wrong with that. I guess I simply found the change of pace in 08th MS Team refreshing, even if the strategies were mostly standard.

[Ouroboric]

One reason I see AW and CE as having no room for sequels even is this, the fanbase and their love of the characters. We already saw in Destiny what happens when you leave Kira out of the picture, fangirls get mad. They wanted to kill him at the end of Seed and they attempted to in Destiny, he will be immortal as the fanbase says so. If CE gets another full length sequel, Kira will be involved. And Wing also has such a huge emphasis on the main characters, that simply throwing new main characters in could ruin the shows popularity.

I see how not having a strong in show comparison, makes for the question of how special the 8th team actually is . But other feddy pilots are shown in battle as well,being somewhat cannon fodder esq,but not totally useless either,just like 8th ms team.I don't entirely remember, but I'm pretty sure we see the 6th or 7th team go out and battle at one point earlier in the show,briefly,but they do just a bit worse than the 8th team usually does. I said before, a grey area between being a unique soldier to a grunt is not a bad thing.

(I gotta go to class so I will finish when I come back to computer land, I'll explain in what way I agree on the tactics part)

[farjad93]

The UC sidestories are illustrative of why I'd rather not see Sunrise try to expand the AUs at all, sequels or sidestories. And I think I already mentioned that the AUs as they're currently constituted don't really leave much room for sequels in the first place, so you'd be going back to 0083's "tacked on/unnecessary" problem.

The only AUs that leave no room for a sequel are Wing and 00. Just because a story has a conclusion, doesn't mean there is no room for more stories in that universe. The original Mobile Suit Gundam had no need for any sequels. It put an end to the One Year War and Char got his revenge against the Zabi family. There was really no need for a sequel to Mobile Suit Gundam. Yet it got Zeta Gundam, ZZ Gundam, CCA, etc. And I like that it did. Do you believe UC would've been better off just ending with MSG? If so, I can respect that, but it means we also have a fundamental disagreement. I think the fact that the UC timeline is so well-developed is what makes it so appealing. The occasional contradiction/inconsistency doesn't take away from this, for me.

One reason I see AW and CE as having no room for sequels even is this, the fanbase and their love of the characters. We already saw in Destiny what happens when you leave Kira out of the picture, fangirls get mad. They wanted to kill him at the end of Seed and they attempted to in Destiny, he will be immortal as the fanbase says so. If CE gets another full length sequel, Kira will be involved.

I, for one, really enjoyed the heck out of SEED and don't see how killing Kira off at the end would've improved the show in any way. The main problem I have with Kira in Destiny isn't the fact that he isn't killed off. It isn't even the fact that he suddenly becomes a self-righteous pacifist. I don't mind pacifist characters that have a determination not to kill. Just look at Aang in Avatar: The Last Airbender and Himura Kenshin in Rurouni Kenshin. Both are pacifists who refuse to kill. But they only become like that after some serious thought/serious determination to not repeat past mistakes. We don't see any reason why Kira just suddenly refuses to kill, he doesn't go through any character development in Destiny. I don't really mind that he stayed alive and actually prefer that did, since I liked him in SEED (yes, despite his annoying crying habit).This is why I really want a sequel to Destiny. That show really left a bitter taste in my mouth and I feel that a sequel would be able to fix that.

(I gotta go to class so I will finish when I come back to computer land, I'll explain in what way I agree on the tactics part)

Haha, me too. But today is probably the easiest day of the week for me in terms of workload

[NastyNate]

After War has a lot of potential as long as they do not ruin the great ending they gave tiffa and Garrod.

I have always wanted another G Gundam that would have a tournament years down the road. Domon and Rains daughter would be awesome to have as the main protagonist.

Of course Wing is crying for more. Just ignore that no more gundams thing at the end of endless waltz.

[Ouroboric]

My issue with Kira in Destiny was that he had no real place,it seems like they ran out of story by the half way point in the series, to which we get Kira's substance less pseudo philosophy and constant "are we doing the right thing?" talk to take up space. And his presence felt counterproductive to me, suddenly instead of Shin developing as a character we get Kira rushing in telling everyone to stop fighting and beam spamming.Rinse and repeat for episodes on end,the same battle techniques repeated over and over again, and not a whole lot happening.A cameo or two from Kira would have been fine, but they just used him to try to appease fans while they scrambled with the second half of the story they didn't bother to write, When Shin defeated him I was hoping the story could get going again, but the show kept degenerating, and even the Mecha porn got bland as they ran out of new things to throw at the audience very early on. Which is unfortunate because the first 10-12 episodes were some of the best in AU as far as my initial watching went.

Were The 08th Ms team excels in the tactics and battles aspect is the pacing for one thing,the movements are slow and gritty,and mobile suits take a while to actually take out more than not. This contrasts heavily with say the beam blitzkrieg,dodge based battles in Zeta, which had some incredible battle scenes(and yes a bit to much grappling in a few episodes),some highlights being Qubeley vs Zeta,G-Defensor and Methuss, Jaburo,Camille's near defeat to Yazan(not when he was saved by the Zeta, but later on the series),The whole Asshimar arc,and Jerid and Kacrikon vs Camille on the moon. But in Zeta if you were hit 2-3 times in a battle and your mobile suit didn't explode, you were damn lucky,though getting the hits was no easy task with the high maneuverability of the mobile suits.

In 08 there is almost no booster abuse or aerial battles to be found,a bigger emphasis on cover, and the absolute need for teamwork just to stay alive,While the tactics weren't spectacular,they definitely had their own lack of flair that gave the show it's character.The jungle terrain also played a huge part in the way the battles went as well.

[ShadowCell]

The only AUs that leave no room for a sequel are Wing and 00. Just because a story has a conclusion, doesn't mean there is no room for more stories in that universe.

That's not the point. G Gundam destroys the Devil Gundam, puts Domon and Rain together, and pretty much resolves Domon's issues. Gundam X wraps up its various plot points, tells us what Newtypes are, kills off the crazy leaders on both sides, leaves the Frost brothers harmless, has the whole story come full-circle with the fake Newtypes in the town, and ends with Jamil and Lancerow negotiating a peace between the Earth and the SRA. DESTINY ends with Lacus and her followers crushing or absorbing all possible points of opposition. You might make sequels to those shows anyways, but they wouldn't be continuations, they would be entirely new shows--new shows that really aren't necessitated by the originals. A hypothetical G Gundam II can't do anything for G Gundam; it would have to be an entirely new story, because there are no plot threads left over from G Gundam that could fuel a G Gundam II. A hypothetical Gundam X II (which actually exists: it's called Under the Moonlight) would have to either resume the Space Wars or invent an entirely new conflict, in contradiction to the settled-down postwar lives it points at for its cast; DESTINY's conflict clearly and unambiguously ends, so a hypothetical Gundam SEED III would have to invent an entirely new conflict. So you're back to the problem 0083 has, in that it just dangles off the end of the larger story unnecessarily.

Mobile Suit Gundam did not have such a clear ending. The war simply ended, because Zeon's leadership was wiped out and its military was ground down--but most crucially, Char's fate was left ambiguous, and he was a far more important character to the story than the various Zabis. The final situation was left unclear; the war was over, a ceasefire was in place, but it wasn't clear that the entire conflict was over. So Zeta had room to get started.

The AUs don't really have anything similar going for them. Villains get unambiguously defeated or killed; the future world after the show gets a pretty unambiguous setup, for good or for ill. There's a difference between making a sequel because a sequel is needed, and making a sequel because you can. I'd rather see Sunrise err on the side of the former than the latter--and, well, the AUs don't really generally need sequels.

The exception there is Gundam SEED, because it had the same sort of unclear ending as Mobile Suit Gundam--and it got its sequel, in DESTINY. What other AU shows have the same sort of ending as SEED? What else is there to say?

[Ouroboric]

Though a series that operates under the same time line, doesn't necessarily even need to be a sequel .Victory's thematic and content based links to MSG are pretty minuscule,though both are a great shows and fit in UC without contradiction.The federation's incompetence and mankind's continual failure as long as they are in power, and the archetypes of an earth vs space conflict and the Gundam it'self keeps the link(oh and newtypes). It would probably have to be a whole new story, with a whole new set of characters. Doesn't mean that the universe can't be reused, it seems like they are running out of interesting new universes with Age anyways.

[VF5SS]

On the issue of Newtypes, I still don't agree with Shiro being a Newtype. If he possessed any Newtype ability at all, he and his team wouldn't have struggled so much trying to stop Norris in the series. I also don't believe that the Aina-Shino romance on its own is valid evidence to suggest they are Newtypes. All the other Newtypes in the series demonstrated exceptional battle ability in addition to having a special connection to other Newtypes. So, as ridiculous as it may seem, I disagree that the Aina-Shino romance is enough evidence to suggest that either one is a Newtype. Also, I don't think that the point of the series was to compare the 08th MS Team to the White Base trio.

ok ok

You're not getting it.

The writers somehow literally just wrote a Newtype romance and that's what got animated. Like, that's how every Gundam show did it prior did it. Like someone said, they're a symbol of connection across both sides. That's the Newtype thing. Sure nobody says they are Newtypes, but the people behind it clearly did that motif again. And there's plenty of Newtypes who don't have amazing fighting abilities.

They're like the White Base trio because despite there being an entire base of EFF mobile suits, we never see them do anything except die and sit around hangars so they can make nice Hobby Japan dioramas.

What about Aina's older brother (forgot his name) and the Apsalus? I'm sure they were doing nothing the whole series. I know, I know, we know it will fail because we've already seen the original series. But the team still has to stop them. Yes, Norris is a major antagonist, but he's not a main character. And the 08th MS Team really struggled against him, just ONE mobile suit pilot. So, I really don't see how anybody could think anyone on the 08the MS team is a newtype. I still have to disagree that the 08th MS Team is the only that does anything in the series.

The 08th is the only EFF team that does anything in the series that we see. If you want to convince someone the 08th is part of a larger whole, other teams need to contribute to the war effort.

Ghinius is also the bad guy so he cackles and neglects his medicine like a brat.

Norris is the bad guy. We have to see him do something. And honestly, please rewatch the Gouf Custom fight because there is no reason for any of them to struggle like they did because all the 08th Team does is gouf off and stand around while watching Norris do things. Like seriously, why is not having Mobile Suits fight like they did in 0079 suddenly a bad thing? 08th MS Team is full of people standing around waiting for something to happen. Who choreographed these fights? An SRW player?

[farjad93]

The only AUs that leave no room for a sequel are Wing and 00. Just because a story has a conclusion, doesn't mean there is no room for more stories in that universe.

That's not the point. G Gundam destroys the Devil Gundam, puts Domon and Rain together, and pretty much resolves Domon's issues. Gundam X wraps up its various plot points, tells us what Newtypes are, kills off the crazy leaders on both sides, leaves the Frost brothers harmless, has the whole story come full-circle with the fake Newtypes in the town, and ends with Jamil and Lancerow negotiating a peace between the Earth and the SRA. DESTINY ends with Lacus and her followers crushing or absorbing all possible points of opposition. You might make sequels to those shows anyways, but they wouldn't be continuations, they would be entirely new shows--new shows that really aren't necessitated by the originals. A hypothetical G Gundam II can't do anything for G Gundam; it would have to be an entirely new story, because there are no plot threads left over from G Gundam that could fuel a G Gundam II. A hypothetical Gundam X II (which actually exists: it's called Under the Moonlight) would have to either resume the Space Wars or invent an entirely new conflict, in contradiction to the settled-down postwar lives it points at for its cast; DESTINY's conflict clearly and unambiguously ends, so a hypothetical Gundam SEED III would have to invent an entirely new conflict. So you're back to the problem 0083 has, in that it just dangles off the end of the larger story unnecessarily.
Mobile Suit Gundam did not have such a clear ending. The war simply ended, because Zeon's leadership was wiped out and its military was ground down--but most crucially, Char's fate was left ambiguous, and he was a far more important character to the story than the various Zabis. The final situation was left unclear; the war was over, a ceasefire was in place, but it wasn't clear that the entire conflict was over. So Zeta had room to get started.
The AUs don't really have anything similar going for them. Villains get unambiguously defeated or killed; the future world after the show gets a pretty unambiguous setup, for good or for ill. There's a difference between making a sequel because a sequel is needed, and making a sequel because you can. I'd rather see Sunrise err on the side of the former than the latter--and, well, the AUs don't really generally need sequels.
The exception there is Gundam SEED, because it had the same sort of unclear ending as Mobile Suit Gundam--and it got its sequel, in DESTINY. What other AU shows have the same sort of ending as SEED? What else is there to say?

Alright, we get it, you really don't want any of the AUs to be developed any further because you feel they are unnecessary. Fine. But that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea to make more series in one of the AUs. Instead of producing yet another UC story or churning out yet another AU, why not write another story in one of the already existing timlines? I mean, seriously, what are they even gonna call the timeline for the inevitable next AU?

I have always wanted another G Gundam that would have a tournament years down the road. Domon and Rain's daughter would be awesome to have as the main protagonist.

I would watch this. It would be so awesome!

[Ouroboric]

On the issue of Newtypes, I still don't agree with Shiro being a Newtype. If he possessed any Newtype ability at all, he and his team wouldn't have struggled so much trying to stop Norris in the series. I also don't believe that the Aina-Shino romance on its own is valid evidence to suggest they are Newtypes. All the other Newtypes in the series demonstrated exceptional battle ability in addition to having a special connection to other Newtypes. So, as ridiculous as it may seem, I disagree that the Aina-Shino romance is enough evidence to suggest that either one is a Newtype. Also, I don't think that the point of the series was to compare the 08th MS Team to the White Base trio.

ok ok

You're not getting it.

The writers somehow literally just wrote a Newtype romance and that's what got animated. Like, that's how every Gundam show did it prior did it. Like someone said, they're a symbol of connection across both sides. That's the Newtype thing. Sure nobody says they are Newtypes, but the people behind it clearly did that motif again. And there's plenty of Newtypes who don't have amazing fighting abilities.

They're like the White Base trio because despite there being an entire base of EFF mobile suits, we never see them do anything except die and sit around hangars so they can make nice Hobby Japan dioramas.

What about Aina's older brother (forgot his name) and the Apsalus? I'm sure they were doing nothing the whole series. I know, I know, we know it will fail because we've already seen the original series. But the team still has to stop them. Yes, Norris is a major antagonist, but he's not a main character. And the 08th MS Team really struggled against him, just ONE mobile suit pilot. So, I really don't see how anybody could think anyone on the 08the MS team is a newtype. I still have to disagree that the 08th MS Team is the only that does anything in the series.

The 08th is the only EFF team that does anything in the series that we see. If you want to convince someone the 08th is part of a larger whole, other teams need to contribute to the war effort.

Ghinius is also the bad guy so he cackles and neglects his medicine like a brat.

Norris is the bad guy. We have to see him do something. And honestly, please rewatch the Gouf Custom fight because there is no reason for any of them to struggle like they did because all the 08th Team does is gouf off and stand around while watching Norris do things. Like seriously, why is not having Mobile Suits fight like they did in 0079 suddenly a bad thing? 08th MS Team is full of people standing around waiting for something to happen. Who choreographed these fights? An SRW player?

They do follow the newtype archetype, but some of Carl Jung's theories also could give us some incite to the situation. Looking outside of Gundam and even in the real world, many people do fall for each other with limited exposure. Aina and Shiro couldn't really see into each others souls like with the newtype thing, they just had certain characteristics that for what ever reason, fit each others ideal archetype of lover. There is also the concept that little exposure mixed with a strong emotional situation (both of them almost dying in space) could make them start to manifest these kind of feelings afterwards, while they are apart, the mystery of the other mixed with the strong emotional response they had during their time together is said to make people kind of "fill in the gaps" as far as how they view the other person. This is more psychological, were the Newtype connection resigns more in a naturalistic and almost materialistic fashion, as the two have their aura's literally touching, like in the case of Haman and Camille.

Norris is not even remotely a villain or "bad guy", he's an antagonist, but his character is never shown in an ominous light.Since we've seen MSG, we can tell the 08th team is surely not special in comparison. But even down to their generic number named unit, fairly average missions(save the Apsalus of course), they do still give off an expendable vibe,more so than your average Gundam protagonists. The standing around part is something you are attributing to the whole series based on the one fight with the Gouf(you are totally right, I can see the SRW in that fight though), how about Shiro's battle with the Ball-K, or the mission were they capture that base? That is'nt something uniform across the whole show.

[farjad93]

In an attempt to steer this thread back on topic, I will list the ideas for AU expansion I have found most interesting so far:
Correct Century (Turn A Gundam)
I really like the idea of having descendants of human explorers returning to the solar system to take back the Earth. It should make for a rather intriguing conflict. Traditionally, Gundam has stuck to the confines of the solar system (mainly Earth and the moon) and I think that featuring travel outside the solar system would be a new, refreshing concept for the series. Also, I would love to see more insight into the Black History.
Future Century (G Gundam)
I would love to see another Gundam fight. Having Domon and Rain's kid participate in it is an excellent idea, in my opinion.
So far, I feel these are the most interesting ideas that have popped up so far. Any other ideas?

[ShadowCell]

i rather assumed farjad wasn't going to go for the F91/Victory kind of sequel, because if you actually watch F91 and Victory, if you didn't know better, you would never know they're part of the same universe as Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta, and thus if you have a show like that, you'd get none of the "more development" he implied that he wanted. i suppose that's one reason why F91 and Victory, with the exception of Crossbone, get pretty much ignored by Sunrise. they bear almost no relation to all the cherished things from the stretch of UC productions that covers the Zeon wars.

[farjad93]

i rather assumed farjad wasn't going to go for the F91/Victory kind of sequel, because if you actually watch F91 and Victory, if you didn't know better, you would never know they're part of the same universe as Mobile Suit Gundam and Zeta, and thus if you have a show like that, you'd get none of the "more development" he implied that he wanted. i suppose that's one reason why F91 and Victory, with the exception of Crossbone, get pretty much ignored by Sunrise. they bear almost no relation to all the cherished things from the stretch of UC productions that covers the Zeon wars.

Yes, but the ideas I listed wouldn't be like that. They would still be related to what has already been established in the AU. For example, the idea for Turn A Gundam would shed more light on the Black History. And I wouldn't call a sequel featuring Domon and Rain's child unrelated in the same vein as F91 and Victory Gundam. The first idea would actually further develop the Correct Century timeline. The second one, while unnecessary, I think would still certainly be enjoyable and it wouldn't be disconnected in the same way as F91 and Victory Gundam are from the Zeon wars. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: In this thread, I was hoping for a discussion centering around the various different alternate universes instead of a discussion centering around UC.