Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

The place to discuss anything relating to anime or manga.
Post Reply
User avatar
solzen blue
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:41 pm

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Rau gets back to his command ship/sub/whatever, and orders Yzak to take down the Archangel and get through JOSH-A's main gate. He -knows- the Cyclops System is about to explode, and he's sending Yzak to his unknowing death? More and more conspiracies and questions on the part of this man!
To Rau's credit, he said something earlier in this episode along the lines of "I sincerely hope the Legged ship can make it through this." Shortly afterward he decides to send Yzak to help attack the Archangel instead of breaking through the interior, where there was a 100% garuantee that if Yzak broke through he wouldn't have been able to get out of the Cyclops system's range in time. So in his very screwed up Le Creuset-like way, he was actually hoping Yzak would make it out alive. After all, he probably couldn't just tell hot-headed Yzak to stay put for no reason, and if any ship within that defending fleet had a chance of surviving, it probably *would* be the Archangel.

Also, your commentary is very amusing and a fun read. :3
User avatar
LightningCount
Posts: 918
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote:As for the Druggies/Three Idiots, that is one big complaint I have about them - perhaps it's premature, but from what reading from you all, it's a valid one. The complaint is that they don't feel like real characters - they're caricatures, just generic, cwwwwazy bwaa-haa-haa, foaming at the mouth whackaloon villains. Aside from being enhanced slacker junkies with some serious anger management issues, we know nothing about them. Their motivations, what they want, why they're there, and particularly, any sense that they're -going- somewhere, other than just as very cheap "scary" (quotation marks are intentional, I don't find them scary at all) bad guys...generic placeholders. "Insert Villain Here."
Yes and no. Hear me out. This is the latter part of the series, a series with a large, growing, and evolving cast, and something has to be sacrificed to keep the narrative moving toward its conclusion. But even then, is it a sacrifice? The Druggies (or Human CPU) further represent the depravity within the military industrial complex in the Federation in SEED. Aside from their distinct looks, each of them has an eccentric quirk they escape reality to--music (Shani), video games (Clotho), paperback novels (Orga) that reflects their degree/method of disfunctionality on the battlefield in combat style. As I see it, Shani cares the least for his comrades, his ears "sealed" by his own soundtrack; Clotho literally sees battle as a game and uses catchphrases from the games he plays as if his opponents are inanimate points to rack up; and Orga is the most balanced and leader-like, connecting to the meticulous nature of reading novels and their sense of structure.

If these three were missing, I think it would hurt the last act of SEED a lot. I found them a surprise addition that really seemed to broaden things beyond the more "human" villains before. Their craziness contrasts the sanity others are trying to bring to the battle. They're reminders that war, as an act, is chaotic and vicious and brutal, despite what Kira is trying to do. They're not the most competent (reflection of Azrael's lack of leadership?), but then, Yzak was laughably turning out to be Jerrod the sequel. Yzak has made so many idle threats, and while his intensity is noteworthy, little has come of it, and the three Human CPU have actually challenged the Justice and Freedom to stalemates--and they aren't Coordinators, they don't have nuclear-powered mobile suits, and they weren't torn up in an instant like Yzak at Alaska.

Let's face it, the original Gundam pilots were splintering (most becoming "nicer"), and you needed a new threat, one that contrasts and wouldn't give in to rationality as the war escalates on both sides. These three serve the role well, while Azrael and Rau fill in the smarter, developed villains, and other elements emerge to fill in the blanks. As wild as the three Human CPU are, you do get a sense of some level of camaraderie at times (mostly from Orga), and you get a bit of sympathy from them being essentially treated as "equipment" to be used and abused. Their presence gives the series a much needed injection of "personality"--not "normalcy," either; completely different than you'd come to expect--and some iota of "danger," lest the series turn into endless grunt battles and kumbayas.

And in the end, they aren't much different from the mostly irrational, ho-hum collection of Cyber Newtypes in UC. So, it's not like they don't have a precedent. In some ways, they may also be a tribute to the eccentric Frost Card Players, who were a highlight of Gundam X, IMO. And if not that, they link up somewhat in feeling to G-Gundam's latter group of rogues that eventually help to form Grand Master Gundam.
Burke Rukes wrote:And what's up with that funky '70's sounding music? Is one of the psycho trio jamming out to music while he blows thing aways?
As someone said, this is the theme song to the Druggies (also dubbed "Human CPU" by a Japanese acquaintance of mine, and I've seen this term used elsewhere). Honestly, I thought the sound was a bold idea. It's a rhythmic, chaotic song that matches the intensity and craziness of these three when they're on the assault. I like Gundam soundtracks that take risks at times. They usually pay off in unexpected ways. After all, this isn't a traditional Gundam series--its AU not mainline UC--so risks are encouraged.

Random Notes:

*In the tradition of the Sanc Kingdom, Orb's neutral, peaceful ways and harboring of Gundams/MS cause it trouble (its destruction), sending the cast on the path to space.

*I agree that the shapes of Gundam X and Wing Gundam were more appealing than their upgrades. The same thing happens again and again. Although, I like Shining Gundam over its upgrade strangely enough...

*Flashbacks are over the top sometimes, yes. But let's not say that 00 was immune to that, either. It had a rather embarrassing flashback montage.

*The pipe organ music that played during the Panama battle was a little distracting/annoying, IMO.

*I share Arbiter GUNDAM's "spoiler-tagged" question about Rau. That's one of the points I still wonder about, along with the father voice implications.
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x
"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone
User avatar
AmuroNT1
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote:As for the Druggies/Three Idiots, that is one big complaint I have about them - perhaps it's premature, but from what reading from you all, it's a valid one. The complaint is that they don't feel like real characters - they're caricatures, just generic, cwwwwazy bwaa-haa-haa, foaming at the mouth whackaloon villains. Aside from being enhanced slacker junkies with some serious anger management issues, we know nothing about them. Their motivations, what they want, why they're there, and particularly, any sense that they're -going- somewhere, other than just as very cheap "scary" (quotation marks are intentional, I don't find them scary at all) bad guys.
Don't expect much more, sadly. I believe the most characterization we get out of these three is seeing them off-duty, where Orga calmly reads books, Shani listens to music, and Clotho plays video games...on his WonderSwan. :P
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
User avatar
Kenji
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:20 pm

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

AmuroNT1 wrote:and Clotho plays video games...on his WonderSwan. :P
Y'know, if they had purposefully meant Clotho to be a retro gamer, that would add so much to his character...

I'll just shut up and read more impressions before I say anything about my opinions. :)
"This is the truth! This is my belief. At least for now."
Zeonista
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: in ur colony, steelin ur gundam

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

LightningCount wrote:
Burke Rukes wrote:As for the Druggies/Three Idiots, that is one big complaint I have about them - perhaps it's premature, but from what reading from you all, it's a valid one. The complaint is that they don't feel like real characters - they're caricatures, just generic, cwwwwazy bwaa-haa-haa, foaming at the mouth whackaloon villains. Aside from being enhanced slacker junkies with some serious anger management issues, we know nothing about them. Their motivations, what they want, why they're there, and particularly, any sense that they're -going- somewhere, other than just as very cheap "scary" (quotation marks are intentional, I don't find them scary at all) bad guys...generic placeholders. "Insert Villain Here."
....is it a sacrifice? The Druggies (or Human CPU) further represent the depravity within the military industrial complex in the Federation in SEED....If these three were missing, I think it would hurt the last act of SEED a lot. I found them a surprise addition that really seemed to broaden things beyond the more "human" villains before. Their craziness contrasts the sanity others are trying to bring to the battle. They're reminders that war, as an act, is chaotic and vicious and brutal, despite what Kira is trying to do. They're not the most competent (reflection of Azrael's lack of leadership?)....and the three Human CPU have actually challenged the Justice and Freedom to stalemates--and they aren't Coordinators, they don't have nuclear-powered mobile suits, and they weren't torn up in an instant like Yzak at Alaska.

Let's face it, the original Gundam pilots were splintering (most becoming "nicer"), and you needed a new threat, one that contrasts and wouldn't give in to rationality as the war escalates on both sides. These three serve the role well, while Azrael and Rau fill in the smarter, developed villains, and other elements emerge to fill in the blanks.
These are some good comments on the nature of the Druggies and their role in the story. :) From my own perspective, the Druggies are Azrael's elite band of attack dogs, kept restrained until they can be turned loose. They are his Coordinator-busters, his attempt to level the battlefield against ZAFT without stooping to the level of genetic manipulation, like the Eurasian Federation did in Astray X.And their battle fury means that the Alliance can't convert them to their side or neutralize them. They are the antithesis of Kira, Athrun, and Cagalli in all ways, and they will have to be destroyed in order to gain a victory for peace.
"I am fire. I am death. I am Hashmal."

"Discontent is the first step in the progress for a man or a nation." - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
solzen blue
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:41 pm

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

*I share Arbiter GUNDAM's "spoiler-tagged" question about Rau. That's one of the points I still wonder about, along with the father voice implications.
As far as Flay goes, I honestly think there was some coercion involved. She seems way too docile while she's with le Cruset. And the whole thing with him sounding like her dad kinda gets brushed aside I think. Add to that I was always a little confused on what he planned to do with her. He never actually says that he knows that she's the daughter of a high-ranking Earth Alliance official and
I don't think he'd initially known who she was in Alaska's HQ, or thought of some sort of long-term plan for her on the spot. When she pulls the gun on him, she looks terrified and doesn't look like the "military" type of girl who would have shot him right on the spot, which probably elicited the "this is interesting" line from Rau. After he speaks, she recognizes her "father's voice" and in the next brief shot Rau has this "huh?" look on his face. Given that he's...
Spoiler
a clone of Al Da Flaga in pretty much every way (including voice) guess who's the first person he's going to associate "my father's voice" with?

Even though Da Flaga is supposed to be dead, if he weren't or if Flay had somehow been related to him, she could have been useful either way to gain information (or torment Mu somehow).
He probably interrogated her for a bit to see what she knew, and when it turns out she didn't know anything about him and was instead the daughter of a late minister, he figured he could still use her as a future bargaining chip if need be.

It's a shaky theory, but the best one I have. As for the *actual* reason their voices are the same, it's likely going to always remain a plot device.
Burke Rukes
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

And now for Episodes 41 thru 45! But first, LightningCount, I wanted to thank you for your comments and insights into the Druggie trio and their role in the series. I still think they're cartoonish, but after reading your analysis of them, I'm starting to look at them in a little different light - not so much as characters, but more as symptoms of the chaos and the deep corruption in the Earth Forces, and how far certain elements (Azrael) are willing to go to ensure victory and get what they want... and even set themselves up for the -next- war.

So here we go!

Hey, a 4th opening credits now. Murrue Ramius's bouncing boobie silhouette is back! There's also some spoilers in the new opening... some big "omg" stuff but I kinda wish I hadn't been spoiled.

Orb's Kusanagi ship is really neat! I love the modular design, plug-and-play mecha and hardware have always been very appealing to me. I'm also amused to learn that the Archangel is based on the Kusanagi - not the other way around, as one might expect. I'm also pleased to see the smart, sexy Erica Simmons aboard.

Cagalli is still lost in grief over losing her father, and learning that Kira is her brother. Kira and Athrun visit her to comfort her, and Kira is shocked to learn that Cagalli is his sister. They wonder about the photo Uzumi gave Cagalli. Are they twins? They look about the same age in the photo. They wonder who the woman in the photo is holding them. Cagalli says she's confused about who she is now, and Kira tells her it doesn't matter - Lord Uzumi is still her father.

Just an aside on this topic, more of an impression and feeling I get from the Archangel crew and some of the allies they've made along the way, particularly Cagalli. Sure, we know now that she's Kira's sister, but even well before now, I feel like this group is very much a family. It's a theme I've enjoyed seeing in various incarnations of Gundam, going all the way back to the crew of White Base, and I'm glad to see it here in Seed. :)

The captains and important people from both ships, including Athrun, have a meeting about their next move. They set sail for the L4 colonies, which were damaged and abandoned shortly after the war started. However, Athrun tells them that there are still some functioning colonies there, with reports of a "suspicious group" operating there some time ago. ZAFT investigated but didn't find anyone. Who is this "suspicious group"? We'll find out soon enough...

Mu La Flaga questions Athrun's commitment to Orb, wondering if he'll have a problem going against ZAFT forces. Athrun says he's still confused about what is right and wrong, about everything he's seen and done until he came to Orb. The only thing he's clear on is the world he wants to create is the same as Orb wants to create. They're only 2 ships strong, but they have a lot of faith in their cause. Athrun brings up Lacus Clyne - his former betrothed and now hunted as a "traitor" by his father, that she and others like her in the PLANTs feel the same they do.

On the PLANTs, Lacus is running a resistance movement, with pirate broadcasts of a message of peace and speaking out against the war. Zala continues to pound his podium look a good dicator, branding her a traitor and spewing the anti-Natural rhetoric, always playing on the public's fear of another Bloody Valentine. Lacus (and we the audience) now learn that Orb's Kaguya spaceport was destroyed, but the Earth Forces also invaded and retook Victoria spaceport and its mass driver. Meanwhile, Zala's troops continue their hunt for her and her father, and in a brief, tragic scene, they find Siegel Clyne's hideout and assassinate him. Things are moving so fast, everywhere now, and feels out of control. At least the Archangel and Orb people are getting a brief respite, but it won't last.

Le Creuset and Yzak have been recalled home. Yzak has a problem believing Lacus is a traitor. Le Creuset tells him to not let his thoughts get tangled in the confusion of war, to remember what he's fighting against. I still have to wonder what Le Creuset's really up to. On the one hand, he seems to have a grudge against Zala and is working behind the scenes against him. On the other, he's happily going along with Zala's intensive war effort and war drum beating, supporting him fully. As for Yzak, he's so confused right now, still lost in his anger and desire for revenge, but we're starting to see hints of clear thinking and skepticism on his part now.

Muruta Azrael and the Druggie Gundam pilots arrive at the newly retaken Victoria spaceport, under the supervision of Captain Sutherland, the Blue Cosmos backstabbing officer who helped orchestrate the disaster in Alaska. Sutherland is impressed with the Strike Daggers' performance, and says Azrael's forces could have taken Orb if it weren't for the appearance of the two new Gundams, Freedom and Strike. Azrael feels disappointed that the Calamity, Raider and Forbidden Gundams were unable to take Orb, and he's now going into space, with the intention of trying to get his hands on the Freedom and Justice. He suspects that with their power, they must be nuclear powered.

Though this is a theme that continues for several episodes, it just now occured to me as I write this that the appearance of the Justice and Freedom Gundams not only marks a "game changing" event in favor of the Three Ships Alliance, but illustrates just how desperate the Earth Forces and ZAFT are now. Both sides are rallying their forces in space, preparing for what may be the final, decisive battle of the war, and both sides are also devoting at least some resources to try to capture these two Gundams. ZAFT wants them back (I guess their compact nuclear reactors aren't quite ready for mass production yet), and Azrael and the Earth Forces wants them as well. We also learn that Azrael is the Director of the National Defense Industry Association - sounds like a conglomeration of weapons manufacturers/death peddlers. Azrael and Sutherland the Druggies, saying that they must "keep the beasts with the fangs on a leash or in a cage," but then adds, "I'll see what I can do to get rid of them." Azrael plans to get as much use out of the Druggies as he can, but ultimately, he doesn't care if they die - as long as he gets his hands on the Freedom and Justice. They and the Druggies and their Gundams board a shutle and take off for the Earth Forces' Lunar base.

Rau Le Creuset, Yzak, Flay Allster and other ZAFT personnel are also taking a shuttle back into space. Flay looks nervous and scared - and she's still wearing a ZAFT uniform. Le Creuset tells her that as long as she's with him, he will protect her. She hears the similiarity to her father's voice again. What the heck is going on with that?! As I saw this scene, trying to figure out what's going on, I had a lot of wild theories, one of them being that Flay is perhaps a long-lost sister of... Athrun's? And maybe he intends to use her as a hostage/negotiating chip against Zala? With so many plot twists and shocking surprises in this series so far, it wouldn't surprise me. :P

Athrun asks for Kira's help in getting a shuttle to go the PLANTs to have a serious talk with his father. Kira helps make the arrangements. Athrun soon leaves in a small 1-person shuttle (that reminds me of the Housenka from Zeta), telling Dearka that if he doesn't make it back, he wants Dearka to pilot the Justice. Cagalli is upset and doesn't want Athrun to go - I think she's got a little crush on him, particularly since finding out her other would-be romantic interest is her brother. :P Kira takes off in the Freedom to escort Athrun.

At the Earth Forces' Lunar base, we see the Dominion, a dark-colored (*cough* Titans colors *cough*) sister ship to the Archangel. Its captain is.... dunh dunh DUNH! The newly-promoted Lieutenant Commander Natarle Badgiruel!

For the end of Episode 41, I forgot to mention this on the last episode review block - the latest closing credits animation and song are really nice. I like seeing virtually the whole cast and all the Gundams (though mostly trashed) in this. The great mix of the visuals and the song give the whole piece a very bittersweet, melancholy feel.

Things are heating up back on the PLANTs as well. One of Patrick Zala's supporters on the council, Ezalia Joule, is spouting a new wave of propaganda. She says Lacus Clyne's desire for peace is geniune, but she's being manipulated and used by the Naturals to betray her own people, and they they have to capture Lacus to "save her." Perhaps they have their own version of 1984's "Room 101," ready to torture and brainwash Lacus into loving Big Brother... before they put a bullet in her head. *shudders* Judging by what happened to her father, I think they'll skip the torture room and just go right to the bullets.

Le Creuset, sporting civvies and Quattro-esque sunglasses, picks up a data storage device from a contact in a bar on one of the PLANTs. (I always have to say "one of the PLANTs because so far in this series I've never seen any individual PLANTs or colonies given names besides Heliopolis and Menden, so I have no idea exactly "where" the scenes on a PLANT takes place.) He gets back to his office, popping pills and looking at the data he picked up. And Flay seems to be his aide/secretary now. (I've just about given up asking what's going on with him and her at this point, I'll just have to wait and see what happens. :P) The data contains information on the Earth Forces' 3 new Gundams - and seems to indicate that they have N-Jammer Cancellers like the Justice and Freedom. I assume this information came from Azrael, since he's the one who gave Le Creuset the info on how to sneak into JOSH-A and possibly about the Cyclops System there.

Patrick Zala is having a discussion with someone off-camera, clearly dismayed at learning the Freedom Gundam has ended up in Orb's ahnds, and that he hasn't heard anything from "that fool" Athrun. He knows the Earth Forces are gathering at their Lunar base, and Zala wants to crush them completely there. And the person he's talking to off-screen is revealed to be... dunh dunh DUNH! Andy Waltfeld! OMG HE'S ALIVE!!! We don't see his face, but we hear his voice, and see the picture of Aisha on his desk, so it's definitely him. Now -that's- the way to drop a surprise character return-from-the-dead on the viewers! :D

Yzak is checking out Le Creuset's new MS, a not-too-shabby looking model called GuAIZ. The mechanic working on it comments that with this model becoming more common, they'll wipe out the Naturals in space in no time. Yzak walks away, disgusted by this comment. C'mon, Yzak, you're getting there... *prods Yzak onto the right path* :P

Lacus is at one of her hideouts/bases, getting a report from her right-hand-man, DaCosta. He says Ezalia Joule's performance has left the citizens at a loss, and the news of Siegel Clyne's assassination hasn't been made public yet. Lacus says it's time for them to go.

Athrun's shuttle and Freedom are almost at the defensive network of ZAFT's asteroid space fortress Jachin Due. Kira says he'll wait there for Athrun to return, but Athrun tells him to go back to the ships. Kira tells Athrun he can't die - that neither of them can die, not yet. I love this little exchange - it shows clearly that they're in this together now, all the way, despite the hard road they've both taken separately to get to this point. Athrun then approaches Jachin Due and announces himself.

In his office, Patrick Zala is looking at an intelligence data file on something called "Genesis," and says, "Damned Naturals." I take it the Earth Forces have developed a space-based weapon of mass destruction. He's then informed of Athrun arriving in an Earth Forces shuttle and being taken in custody. Zala orders him brought to his office at once. Athrun confronts his father on his eye-for-an-eye policy, wanting to know when the war will end. Zala is furious - all he wants from his son is to obey orders and not ask questions, telling Athrun that the war will end when every last Natural is exterminated. All Zala wants to know is what happened to the Freedom and Justice. Athrun refuses to answer, trying to keep their "talk" on the point of the war. Zala pulls a gun on his own son, threatening to have him arrested as a traitor. Athrun remembers Uzumi telling him about Zala's having taken over the PLANTs and his genocidal plans for Naturals. I guess Athrun didn't want to believe it, and needed to hear it from his own father. In rage, Athrun tries to attack Zala but is shot in the shoulder. Zala orders his guards to take Athrun away for questioning, and authorizes the use of torture. Against his own son. What a monster, not only capable of genocide, but violence against his own son. What a monster! He's not only capable of genocide against complete strangers, but violence against his own son. And thus, the folly of giving someone power and the false notion of "moral authority" (i.e. government leadership) is displayed right here, in this angry and violent exchange between father and son.

Athrun is dragged off in handcuffs to a waiting prisoner paddy wagon when he makes a last-second attack on the guards and manages to flee, and receives surprising help from DaCosta. We now learn the name of Lacus' resistance group: the Clyne Faction. During all of this drama, there's been a lot of emphasis on the "stone amulet of Haumea" that Cagalli gave Athrun to "protect him from danger." Guess it's been working (more or less). :P

Meanwhile, at the Jachin Due military spaceport, a brand-new ZAFT warship is being prepared for launch. Its captain: Andy Waltfeld! He is indeed very much alive, with a nasty scar over his left eye now. However, his crew is surprised when they're suddenly overpowered by members of the Clyne Faction - which includes Waltfeld himself! Lacus arrives and joins him on the bridge of the new ship, called Eternal. Waltfeld's alive! And he's working for the good guys now! This is sooooo freakin' awesome! :D They blast their way out of the dock and make their getaway. Le Creuset's Vesalius, also docked there, is unable to pursue, since the Eternal is a very high-speed ship. He decides to leave it up to the Jachin Due defense line to try to capture or sink the renegade ship.

50 ZAFT mobile suits move to attack the Eternal, which doesn't have any MS's on board - it was designed to be used exclusively for the Justice and Freedom Gundams. Lacus broadcasts a plea for them to let Eternal leave, and to ask themselves what they should be fighting against. They attack anyway, and Eternal puts up a pretty good defense (it looks like ZAFT built Eternal's capabilities in response to the Archangel), but it's getting overwhelmed. However, Kira shows up with the Freedom and saves their bacon with some good anti-missile shooting and its rainbow-colored beam spam of not-death. Kira is surprised to see Lacus aboard - and shocked to see Andy Waltfeld is still alive.

Meanwhile, the Archangel and Kusanagi have arrived at the space colony Mendel at L4, and later the Eternal arrives as well. Waltfeld and Murrue meet face to face - former rivals now turned allies. Kira says Waltfeld has a legitimate reason to kill him (the death of Aisha). His reply confuses me, though: "We're in a war. Everyone has a reason, and yet no one does." Huh? Did he miss all the -killing- going on? I thought the whole endless eye-for-an-eye warfare was one of the central points of the series.

In an amusing and heart-warming moment, Cagalli tells Athrun (whose arm is in a sling after being shot), "You're always getting hurt." His reply? "Your amulet saved me." Awwww! :D

Cagalli is also impressed that Lacus escaped with the Eternal. Lacus has really changed so much, probably one of the most surprising character developments in this whole series - from cute and ditzy pop idol singer to a heroic resistance leader with clear moral convictions and the guts to back them up! Cagalli also asks and comments about he and Kira's relationships to Lacus. Athrun says he's no longer engaged to her because he was a fool. Cagalli says Kira is being a fool, too - I guess she sees that Kira and Lacus may become a couple? I've been wondering that myself, thinking it could happen, but then again, I could be wrong. Lacus also tearfully tells Kira that her father is dead.

The Earth Forces continue to gather at their Lunar base, preparing for a major space battle. Natarle is trying to break in her crew on the Dominion, but their performance in simulation drills seems lousy so far. A higher-up officer comes aboard with Azrael, tells Natarle that Azrael will be staying aboard as an observer of their 3 Gundams and their pilots. Azrael is his usual slimy snake self, making cracks about the captain of the Dominion being a young and beautiful woman, and learning that she was first officer aboard the Archangel. He tells her this is good, because they're going to go sink it. Natarle is shocked. I'm not. *grumbles about stupid opening credits spoilers...*

Aboard the Vesalius, Le Creuset, Yzak and Flay are in a meeting about the situation with Lacus, Waltfeld and the Clyne Faction, and the Eternal's flight to the L4 colony group. Le Creuset is surprised that Waltfeld would switch sides like this, and it sounds like quite a few other members of ZAFT are defecting as well. He tells Yzak that Athrun is now his enemy. Yzak says he'll shoot down any traitor. (No, no, no, Yzak! You were going the right way a bit earlier, don't back up now!) And why is Flay there? She's a Natural... is she even a prisoner anymore? I guess Le Creuset doesn't even remotely consider her a threat. But she's standing there watching this important meeting... what is Le Creuset up to with her?

Back in his office, Le Creuset tells Flay that he wants to bring this war to an end. "I have the key," he says, showing her a data disc. "But if the key stays here... then that final door will never open. I would love to somehow open that door." Okay okay, answer some questions about this mysterious guy and his plans already! He's obviously baiting Flay with this "key" thing and showing her this disc - she has the run of his office when he's gone, doing secretary/aide stuff these days.

The head honchos of the Clyne Faction/Three Ships Alliance have a meeting to discuss plans and objectives, with Lacus commenting on how through all of human history, there have always been people who feel as they do about war, and that they must try to make a world where war isn't needed. Cagalli notices that Athrun isn't present and goes to find him. Athrun feels powerless, after facing and trying to talk to his father, then getting shot by him. Cagalli tells Athrun not to give up on his father. Athrun hugs (and surprises) Cagalli, who blushes and stammers a lot. :D

I also have to take a moment to vehemently disagree with Cagalli here. It's one thing to have a difference of opinion with your father on matters of peace-keeping policy. It's another when your father is a foaming-at-the-mouth genocidal bigot who's shot you. When the violence line is crossed, any hope for or semblance of a loving familiar relationship is gone. I'm sorry, but if Patrick Zala were -my- father, he would no longer be in my life. Period.

On the Dominion, Natarle is looking at the personnel files for the Druggies, Clotho, Orga and Shani. She sees that they have "enhancement implants" and are "biological CPUs" for the Gundams, with their personal information deleted. Clotho is stage 3, Orga is stage 2, and Shani is stage 4 in the implants. Since Shani seems to be the most psycho and unstable one, I'm assuming that a higher stage of implants means less self-control. "All three are treated not as pilots, but as equipment." Well, Azrael seemed to make remarks about "getting rid of them."

Azrael comes onto the Dominion bridge, asking when they're arriving at L4. Natarle says she's unsure they have grounds for being there, but Azrael says his intel sources are grounds enough. Natarle says they can't trust information they receive from PLANT sources. Azrael coldly reminds her that her job is to command the ship and follow her orders from higher ups. She's been ordered to obey his orders. Natarle is clearly not happy with this arrangement.

Seriously, Natarle... seeing what's happening around you, the slimy creeps like Azrael you're ordered to kowtow to, and knowing what you know about your superior officers and the betrayal they pulled on your fellow soldiers at JOSH-A, you still wear that uniform and follow their orders? Sigh... I really, really hate nationalistic, militaristic brainwashing...

The Dominion arrives at L4 ahead of Le Creuset's group of 3 Nazca class ships, who have come in pursuit of the Eternal. Azrael tells Natarle that she can sink the Archangel if she wishes, but their main objective is to capture the Freedom and Justice Gundams. She orders Dominion to fire on the Mendel colony's harbor section. Archangel launches to intercept, and Murrue and crew are shocked to see it's another Archangel class ship, and that Natarle is the captain. Natarle calls Murrue, telling her that the Archangel is listed as a rebel ship and is ordered to surrender or be fired upon. She also says she knows what happened at Alaska, but Murrue will have to discuss it with the EA brass, and she'll try to help her if she can. (Oh, come ON, Natarle, you really think you can "work things out" with people like that?) Murrue refuses, saying it's about more than what happened Alaska, that they question what's happened to the Earth Forces as a whole and will not go back. Go Murrue! Murrue and crew are also shocked to learn that Azrael, leader of Blue Cosmos, is aboard the Dominion. Azrael says that if problems could be solved by talking, there would be no conflict, and he orders the Druggies' Gundams to launch.

Thus begins a big battle, and one of the most fantastic pieces of music I've heard so far in this series. The Archangel and Dominion start battling, their Gundams mixing it up as well. The Kusanagi launches to aid the Archangel, but is snagged up in some kind of cable. One of the Astrays tries to cut it free.

Le Creuset's ship squadron arrives in the area and sees the battle already raging. He decides to have his ships wait and see what develops, while he and Yzak sneak into Mendel Colony to gather information. "If all goes well we could bring a number of matters to a close." Hmm... earlier some of the Three Ships Alliance people were talking about a disaster that happened that caused Mendel Colony to be a bio-hazard, though still functioning enough to serve as a base. Bio-hazard... Le Creuset's mystery illness... I wonder if there's a connection? We'll find out soon... :P

Natarle sets up a very clever weapons fire and "minefield" missile trap for the Archangel, and scores some damage on it, despite Kira trying to defend it with the Freedom. Natarle confirms that Azrael wants to capture the Freedom, so she tells him to put the Calamity and Raider on it, and they and the Dominion start trying to put the hurt on Kira's Freedom. Clotho in his Raider does try to make an effort to disable and capture the Freedom, but Orga in the Calamity pilot is having another anger management 'sode and fires his chest BFG at it. However, Athrun has a seed-burst moment and flies in, stopping the beam with Justice's shield (and it's a VERY good shield!) and manages to force the power of the BFG beam back into the Calamity's chest, disabling the weapon! That was pretty spectacular. :)

Meanwhile, Le Creuset and Yzak launch from the Vesalius, while Flay sits in Le Creuset's office, looking at the data disc he seemed to be baiting her with. The instant Le Creuset launches, Mu seneses him with a "Newtype flash" (they even used that familiar old sound effect! :D ). Mu's Strike Gundam and Dearka's Buster Gundam fly into the colony to intercept Yzak's Duel Gundam and Le Creuset's GuAIZ. The interior of Mendel Colony is disturbing... lots of dark red dust and clouds. I wonder what happened here? Mu and Dearka intercept Le Creuset and Yzak and begin a dogfight. Yzak is surprised to find himself fighting the Buster, believing it to be piloted by a Natural.

The Gundams out in space continue their crazy dogfighting, with Shani in the Forbidden pilot going nuts, firing recklessly and putting his teammates in danger. Again. The M1 Astray finally manages to cut the Kusanagi loose from the cables holding it and it moves to help the Archangel, which is still fighting and slugging it out with the Dominion. Dominion has also deployed Strike Daggers, which fight against the Astrays, but with the Druggies' Gundams' batteries running low and Kusanagi back in the fight, the Dominion is at a disadvantage and Natarle orders a retreat. Kira theorizes that the EA Gundam pilots are not Naturals.

Yzak is shocked to hear the voice of his old teammate Dearka transmitted from the Buster as they fight. The Archangel can't contact Buster and Strike, so Kira goes into the colony after them. Yzak sees the Freedom approaching, realizing it's Kira piloting it, and gets ready to attack, but Dearka intervenes. Dearka tells Kira to let him handle it, with Kira warning him not to let happen what happened between he and Athrun. Dearka and Yzak land their Gundams and get out to talk face to face. Yzak pulls his gun on him, calling him an enemy. (Yzak, Yzak, Yzak... come on, kid, put down the gun and -think-, you're so close...!) Dearka says he didn't choose to become Yzak's enemy, but he can't follow the orders of people whose sole purpose is killing off every last Natural. It would seem Miri's kindness and saving his life (even after she tried to kill him) has had a positive effect on Dearka. :) Yzak learns that Athrun has also defected along with Waltfeld and joined the Clyne Faction as well. Dearka also explains that Kira Yamato, the former Strike pilot and now Freedom pilot, also a Coordinator and has been friends with Athrun since childhood. Dearka may not be as devoted to the Three Ships Alliance's cause as Kira and Athrun, but after what he's seen at Alaska, Panama and Orb, there's no way he's going back to ZAFT. Yzak thinks he's being deceived, but Dearka says he wonders which of them is the one really being deceived. If he has a choice, he'd rather not fight against Yzak. He boards the Buster and takes off.

Elsewhere in the colony, Mu is fighting Le Creuset, who says "I guess in the end, a child cannot win against his father." This line throws me for a loop, initially, but all will be explained soon. (Okay, maybe not all. But a few things, at least. More to come!) Le Creuset badly damages the Strike and injures Mu. He's about to move in for the kill when Kira swoops down in the Freedom and blasts and slices up the GuAIZ. Le Creuset jumps out and starts running off somewhere, but Mu gets out of his cockpit too, and they shoot their pistols at each other. "What do you say we put an end to all of this today?" Le Creuset calls out as he enters into a nearby building, Mu following close behind. Kira lands and gets out to pursue them on foot.

Inside the building, Le Creuset taunts Mu, asking if he knows what the building is. Mu doesn't know, and Le Creuset says it's a crime not to know. Kira and Mu call out to each other, and so Le Creuset learns that Kira is still alive. He invites them to come to "where it all began," and where he claims Kira was born. The building is the "BL4+ Humangene Manipulation Lab," which contains a lot of still-functioning equipment, tanks with fetuses, etc. Kira and Mu chase Le Creuset through the lab building, exchanging gunfire, Mu taking a hit in the shoulder. Le Creuset says he's not going to kill them, because he wants them to learn everything. He tosses a big surprise at Kira's feet - the same photo of him and Cagalli as twin babies with their supposed mother. He also tosses a book full of other pictures, including a picture Mu as a young boy with his father! "Aren't you curious about where the endless human desires are headed? About the story of the fools who pursued a crazed dream based on their belief of progress? After all, you're a son of all this, too," he tells Mu.

Le Creuset reveals a lot the history of himself, Mu and Kira. The head researcher at this genetic manipulation lab was Dr. Ulen Hibiki, who invented an artificial womb system here. The only successful birth that resulted from the artificial womb was Kira, who (I'm assuming, as it hasn't been stated yet) is the genetic son of Dr. Hibiki and another woman we see in the flashbacks/story (unnamed as yet, I assume Hibiki's wife and possibly a fellow scientist? We also see her pregnant, presumably with Cagalli). The reason for the artificial womb was Hibki's desire to create the Ultimate Coordinator - a perfect human with no flaws, born exactly as designed. When George Glenn gave the Coordinator idea and technology to humanity, it sparked a genetic manipulation craze on the part of expectign parents, wanting specific traits for their unborn children. However, the variable of the mother's womb caused many children to not turn out as "designed," so Hibiki wanted to remove this variable with the artificial womb. The mother (Hibiki's wife?), pregnant with child (Cagalli?) began to object to this whole idea. Hibiki thought that, because humans always want improved and better things, creating the Ultimate Coordinator will bring greater happiness.

Le Creuset asks what's really improved? Nothing, he says, because humans continue to be envious of each other, hate each other, and kill each other. He thinks everyone should just kill each other until they're satisfied. Mu asks what gives him the right to make that determination. Le Creuset claims he alone has the right to pass judgment on all of humanity. It sounds to me as if Le Creuset wants to eliminate the entire human race, Natural and Coordinator alike!

Le Creuset thought the twins had died - he mentions the emergence of Blue Cosmos and their reacting violently to the existence of Coordinators, and that aside from Dr. Hibiki, Kira was their biggest target at the time. I have a theory that Blue Cosmos found Hibiki's lab at Mendel Colony and gassed the colony with bio-weapons, but somehow the twins were smuggled to safety and given to adoptive parents. I could be wrong though...

He also drops the other big bombshell: he is a clone of Mu La Flaga's father, Al Da Flaga! I'm vague on the details of this, apparently Al Da Flaga was a rich guy, who fathered Mu with his wife, but I'm guessing he also hired Hibiki to make an illegal clone of himself. Young Rau and young Mu met once when they were children, but it looks like Al Da Flaga had a major falling out with his wife, went nuts and burned down their mansion? I'm still very confused on the Mu/Rau thing. But, Rau Le Creuset turned out to be a defective clone, hence the mystery illness and the pills.

Mu doesn't want to believe that Rau is a clone of his father. Rau says, "The final door is about to open. I will open it! And this world will come to an end! This world of endless ambition will end!" I still want to know what this "door" is, I suspect it's some sort of weapon of mass destruction that will destroy the entire human race, but I really don't have a clue. They exchange more gunfire, and Rau's mask gets blown off - Mu recognizes his face as the same as his father's. Mu tells them there's nothing they can do to stop the "door opening," and he runs off.

Aboard the Dominion, Natarle isn't wanting to make a move yet, since they're outnumbered by both the Three Ships Alliance and the 3 ZAFT Nazca-class ships. Azrael pushes her buttons though, comparing a military battle to the business world - nothing ventured, nothing gained, and that she should take the risk. Dominion launches its Gundams, the Druggie pilots resigning themselves to kill or be killed - either by the enemy or being "punished" with the withdrawl of their drug. The Dominion follows the Gundams back into the colony area. The Three Ships launch to face them.

Kira helps injured Mu get back to their Gundams. Kira has Freedom haul the damaged Strike, and with the Buster, they exit the colony. Yzak uses the Duel to haul Le Creuset's GuAIZ back to the Vesalius, but finds the cockpit empty when he returns. Le Creuset has already rushed to his office, where Flay is waiting. He's having violent spasms as he tries to take his pills as Flay watches with shock. Oh, and he keeps spare masks in his desk. :P He then orders the ship's captain to have all ships launch their MSs and enter the fray. He can't allow the Earth Forces to get their hands on Freedom & Justice, and he'll be going out as well in a CGUE. He tells Flay he wants her to assist him. "This is my final gamble on whether or not the door will open."

The Gundams fight and fight and fight, with the assistance of a lot of familiar stock footage. The Nazca class ships are approaching the battle. Mu is in Archangel's sickbay now, getting his injuries treated. On the Vesalius, Flay is in a normal suit and put inside an EVA/escape pod looking vehicle. Rau's instructions to her: "I'm very tired, so please deliver this key to the final door for me. If that key makes it into the hands of the Earth Forces, the war will end." He then contacts the Dominion, announcing he'd like to return a captive before they begin battle.

Flay looks so sad and helpless - she's just a pawn being dragged along by these turbulent events now. It's like she has no control over her life whatsoever anymore. I truly want to feel sorry for her now, but there's a tiny part of me that still hates her for what she did earlier in the series.

Just a couple of miscellaneous notes/comments:

I've realized that ZAFT's Laurasia-class ships are vaguely Musai-ish. Not much, but definitely vaguely similar the more I look at it.

Why does it say "DIECI" on the red V-fin base on the Freedom's forehead? I ran a Google translation search, and it says "dieci" is Spanish for "sixteen."

My review of the big finale, Episodes 46 thru 50, coming soon!
Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food
User avatar
Chris
Administrator
Posts: 3381
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:20 pm
Contact:

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote:Why does it say "DIECI" on the red V-fin base on the Freedom's forehead? I ran a Google translation search, and it says "dieci" is Spanish for "sixteen."
Google Translate doesn't always work so well. The number 16 in Spanish is "dieciseis." What it should've given you is that "Dieci" means 10 in Italian, which corresponds to the Freedom's model number, ZGMF-X10A. The model numbers for ZAFT's Gundams usually show up on the head crest in Italian. It kinda goes with the theme of so many ZAFT things being named in Latin or after scientific terms.
Co-founder/editor-in-chief, MAHQ
Pronouns: he/him/his
User avatar
Black Knight
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:20 am

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote: Orb's Kusanagi ship is really neat! I love the modular design, plug-and-play mecha and hardware have always been very appealing to me. I'm also amused to learn that the Archangel is based on the Kusanagi - not the other way around, as one might expect. I'm also pleased to see the smart, sexy Erica Simmons aboard.
Kusanagi is supposed to be a transport ship primarily, though Orb has weapons modules, including an impressive four Loengrin positron beam cannons. But, yes, it predates Archangel, which, remember, Orb designed, too.
Burke Rukes wrote: Meanwhile, the Archangel and Kusanagi have arrived at the space colony Mendel at L4, and later the Eternal arrives as well. Waltfeld and Murrue meet face to face - former rivals now turned allies. Kira says Waltfeld has a legitimate reason to kill him (the death of Aisha). His reply confuses me, though: "We're in a war. Everyone has a reason, and yet no one does." Huh? Did he miss all the -killing- going on? I thought the whole endless eye-for-an-eye warfare was one of the central points of the series.
And Waltfeld's refusal to continue the eye-for-an-eye cycle is the point of this exchange. Someone has to say "I won't try to kill you back" for peace to happen, much like Kira and Athrun letting the deaths of their friends slide in the name of peace.
Burke Rukes wrote:I also have to take a moment to vehemently disagree with Cagalli here. It's one thing to have a difference of opinion with your father on matters of peace-keeping policy. It's another when your father is a foaming-at-the-mouth genocidal bigot who's shot you. When the violence line is crossed, any hope for or semblance of a loving familiar relationship is gone. I'm sorry, but if Patrick Zala were -my- father, he would no longer be in my life. Period.
You'd be amazed at how many people stay in abusive relationships even when they know it's foolish, and are given many chances to leave. I see this all the time in my line of work, and it makes me want to beat some sense into people. But you can't. Suffice to say, the number of spouses I've seen picking their significant others up from jail and/or the brig, with their own faces still bruised and beaten, is large.

Burke Rukes wrote:Seriously, Natarle... seeing what's happening around you, the slimy creeps like Azrael you're ordered to kowtow to, and knowing what you know about your superior officers and the betrayal they pulled on your fellow soldiers at JOSH-A, you still wear that uniform and follow their orders? Sigh... I really, really hate nationalistic, militaristic brainwashing...
It's foolish professionalism, not nationalistic/militaristic brainwashing. And is also quite common. Still, Natarle has a demonstrated sense of right and wrong, as well as her narrow-minded I-must-follow-orders BS. IMO, it's to prevent this sort of lockstep thinking that the US military's officer oath fails to include "follow the orders of the individuals appointed over me", as the US military enlisted oath does. Subtle point, and one that clearly doesn't exist in the Japanese worldview, but it's good to have officers who aren't compelled to follow the orders of a monster. Natarle, alas, doesn't have the benefit of such broad-minded ideas.
Burke Rukes wrote:He also drops the other big bombshell: he is a clone of Mu La Flaga's father, Al Da Flaga! I'm vague on the details of this, apparently Al Da Flaga was a rich guy, who fathered Mu with his wife, but I'm guessing he also hired Hibiki to make an illegal clone of himself. Young Rau and young Mu met once when they were children, but it looks like Al Da Flaga had a major falling out with his wife, went nuts and burned down their mansion? I'm still very confused on the Mu/Rau thing. But, Rau Le Creuset turned out to be a defective clone, hence the mystery illness and the pills.
Defective clone, yes. However, I believe the footage attempts to imply that Rau set the fire, murdering Al Da Flaga in the process. Such would fit with his worldview of "I'm the only one who can judge humanity" and fits with what said judgement is: kill 'em all.
Burke Rukes wrote:I've realized that ZAFT's Laurasia-class ships are vaguely Musai-ish. Not much, but definitely vaguely similar the more I look at it.
Especially if you turn them upside-down.
User avatar
AmuroNT1
Posts: 3420
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

I'll spare the long commentary and just remark on something I've been holding off on for a while.

Back in the GBA era, there was a Seed game called "With You and My Friends On the Battlefield", which was a combination visual novel and action game. The player controlled Kira, getting to see the day-to-day life on the Archangel and having some fun character interaction before you go into battle at the end of the "episode". Two story scenes stand out in my mind. The first is "Kebab Wars II", where Cagalli and Waltfeld get into their old argument while on the Eternal (amusingly, the game actually lets you pick a side in the original debate, with "I'm not touching this one" being an option).

The second has Athrun wanting to make Cagalli a robot pet like the Haros and Birdy, so he gets your help going around and asking for advice. He ends up making a little robot hamster...which Cagalli freaks out and smashes when she first sees it, thinking it's a rat or something. Athrun is of course upset, but when things are explained Cagalli is quite touched and asks if he'd be willing to rebuild it because she'd love to have it.

There are some more; for example, if you hit the right flags throughout the game, around the Mendel episode you can meet the cast of Astray and even have either Lowe's Red Frame or Gai's Blue Frame as your backup on that stage's battle. It was a fun little game, but very text-heavy and I'm sure it'd be very hard to find nowadays.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power
User avatar
LightningCount
Posts: 918
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:02 pm

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote:One of Zala's supporters on the council, Ezalia Joule, is spouting a new wave of propaganda. She says Lacus Clyne's desire for peace is geniune, but she's being manipulated and used by the Naturals to betray her own people, and they they have to capture Lacus to "save her."
That's Yzak's mother, in case you didn't know. :o
Burke Rukes wrote:Le Creuset, sporting civvies and Quattro-esque sunglasses, picks up a data storage device from a contact in a bar on one of the PLANTs...The data contains information on the Earth Forces' 3 new Gundams - and seems to indicate that they have N-Jammer Cancellers like the Justice and Freedom.
The EA Gundams have new batteries I think, but are still battery operated, not nuclear (hence the 'out of power' weakness). Actually, IIRC, that disk is mostly data on Justice and Freedom via ZAFT sources...
Burke Rukes wrote:Lacus is at one of her hideouts/bases, getting a report from her right-hand-man, DaCosta. He says Ezalia Joule's performance has left the citizens at a loss, and the news of Siegel Clyne's assassination hasn't been made public yet...Meanwhile, at the Jachin Due military spaceport, a brand-new ZAFT warship is being prepared for launch. Its captain: Andy Waltfeld! He is indeed very much alive, with a nasty scar over his left eye now...His reply confuses me, though: "We're in a war. Everyone has a reason, and yet no one does." Huh? Did he miss all the -killing- going on? I thought the whole endless eye-for-an-eye warfare was one of the central points of the series.
And I think he's missing an arm and/or leg, too, isn't he? He has a cane, doesn't he? Waltfeld's return is controversial. While he was a great character, seeing him return in a limited capacity after a great exit is sort of fan-service. Especially given the way they showed him "dying" earlier. Like Kira in the Strike, it's hard to know how he survived; Though, I think some manga makes an effort to explain it. I'll go with it, being a fan of him myself, but these inconsistencies are sometimes annoying and can cheapen certain characters. By the way, it's easy to forget, but DeCosta was Waltfeld's stalwart right-hand man in the Desert Arc before he worked for Lacus, so that was another tease that he might return. There are rumors that Waltfeld returned because the director liked his voice actor's performance. Just like rumors that Dearka became a good guy to sell more Buster Gundam model kits. :? As for Waltfeld's statement, it makes sense to me. It connects to his earlier question of do wars end when everyone is dead, or is there some other answer. He's saying here that, sure, there are reasons to fight, but if those reasons to fight only prolong the war and make things worse, those aren't really reasons. If he kills Kira out of revenge, what good will that do anyone?
Burke Rukes wrote:Athrun is dragged off in handcuffs to a waiting prisoner paddy wagon when he makes a last-second attack on the guards and manages to flee, and receives surprising help from DaCosta. We now learn the name of Lacus' resistance group: the Clyne Faction. ...In an amusing and heart-warming moment, Cagalli tells Athrun (whose arm is in a sling after being shot), "You're always getting hurt." His reply? "Your amulet saved me." Awwww! :D . . . Cagalli is also impressed that Lacus escaped with the Eternal. Lacus has really changed so much, probably one of the most surprising character developments in this whole series - from cute and ditzy pop idol singer to a heroic resistance leader with clear moral convictions and the guts to back them up
*The gunfight rescue brings to mind those ragtag shootouts in Gundam Wing. I liked this scene a lot.

*Also, I wonder, did Cagalli's stone actually redirect Zala's bullet? Literally saving him? And unrelated, the Clyne Faction and Lacus' evolution really brought to mind Wing for me, as well.

*Clyne Faction is one part Treize Faction--a military splinter based on the idealism of a certain leader/idealism--and another part Peacemillion Gundam Team, where they're trying to be a countermeasure to two major military factions of Earth and space moving toward disaster.

*Lacus' evolution is just as surprising as Relena "Darlian" Peacecraft, and mirrors it somewhat. Relena was the spoiled, self-centered daughter of a prominent politician pushing for peace between Earth and the colonies, who was then assassinated. As time went on she herself was pushed into a role of peace preaching and even leadership, trying to finish what her father started. The royalty piece of a peaceful kingdom was torn out and given to Cagalli, and the freedom fighter piece and pop singer pieces added to Cagalli and Lacus, respectively.
Burke Rukes wrote:Seriously, Natarle... seeing what's happening around you, the slimy creeps like Azrael you're ordered to kowtow to, and knowing what you know about your superior officers and the betrayal they pulled on your fellow soldiers at JOSH-A, you still wear that uniform and follow their orders? Sigh... I really, really hate nationalistic, militaristic brainwashing...
Her bashing of Murrue and her by-the-books manner is coming back to bite her. Although, she backs up her skills by matching up against Murrue and being just as--if not more--skilled. Just as Murrue predicted in Alaska. "No doubt in my mind that someday..."
Burke Rukes wrote:Elsewhere in the colony, Mu is fighting Le Creuset, who says "I guess in the end, a child cannot win against his father." This line throws me for a loop, initially, but all will be explained soon. (Okay, maybe not all. But a few things, at least. More to come!) Le Creuset badly damages the Strike and injures Mu.
Inside the building, Le Creuset taunts Mu, asking if he knows what the building is. Mu doesn't know, and Le Creuset says it's a crime not to know...Le Creuset asks what's really improved? Nothing, he says, because humans continue to be envious of each other, hate each other, and kill each other. He thinks everyone should just kill each other until they're satisfied. Mu asks what gives him the right to make that determination. Le Creuset claims he alone has the right to pass judgment on all of humanity. It sounds to me as if Le Creuset wants to eliminate the entire human race, Natural and Coordinator alike!...He also drops the other big bombshell: he is a clone of Mu La Flaga's father, Al Da Flaga! I'm vague on the details of this, apparently Al Da Flaga was a rich guy, who fathered Mu with his wife, but I'm guessing he also hired Hibiki to make an illegal clone of himself. Young Rau and young Mu met once when they were children, but it looks like Al Da Flaga had a major falling out with his wife, went nuts and burned down their mansion? I'm still very confused on the Mu/Rau thing. But, Rau Le Creuset turned out to be a defective clone, hence the mystery illness and the pills.
Welcome to a brilliant episode (despite the fact that everyone's a terrible shot with pistols...but maybe its intentional to just keep people at a distance so Rau can give his speech). First off, Mu really gets his butt handed to him by Rau in MS combat; that was pretty striking and shocking how fast that battle went. You know why Rau has to wear a mask. While it was one-time theorized his genetic failings are deforming his face, the SEED compilations moves seem to show that is not the case. Therefore, it is because ZAFT wouldn't want to find one if its aces has the face of a famous EA politician. It's never directly explained in-show, but in character info, Mu's bloodline has a sixth sense and gift for spatial awareness (neither Newtype or Coordinator related), and thus it's how Mu controlled the Mobius Zero's remote/wire-guided weapons so well AND why Mu and Rau can "sense" one another. Speaking of the fire, IIRC, here's the deal. Mu wasn't up to his father's standards, because he had his mother's blood in him, which made him "weaker." So, he created Rau. But Rau found his life as a replacement doll for Mu and Al to be disgusting, and I think he's the one who burned everything down, like some Greek tragedy. He feels he has the right to judge others, because he is their "sin," and he can show them the folly of their ways. He perfectly embodies the themes of this series that are attempting to be tackled, and he has come to his own idea of a "solution" while everyone else was arguing. In retrospect, his philosophy vagely resembles certain villains of Gundam X. But as several masked men have been, he is definitely much more than "Char the sequel." And, as a result of characters like this in the interim between Victory and Unicorn, it kind of has made Full Frontal seem passe to me thus far. (The fact that he took fashion tips from Char's alternate universe reimaginings--Zechs and Rau in hair, mask, and more colonial garb--did not help. But enough on that tangent.
Burke Rukes wrote:I've realized that ZAFT's Laurasia-class ships are vaguely Musai-ish. Not much, but definitely vaguely similar the more I look at it.
Agreed. That's why I was surprised you were so against them earlier on.

Unrelated...I'm not a big fan of the 4th opening. I didn't "realize" it had so many spoilers, no pun intended, until I saw what you meant. I saw these episodes on Toonami first before DVD, so their custom openings didn't spoil those treats (including the 0083 references you may have noticed in there). Anyway, the last opening's song and images don't flow as well as the others to me, and come off as rushed. Though the ending theme and pics are pretty darn good, despite being on the bright side. Also, in these last few episodes of the NA DVD title, notice some written cues of the word "Destiny." I wonder if the people knew they were going to do a sequel series, or if it was a looking back thing. Probably the latter, but it makes the two series try to flow better into one another. But remember, there was an epilogue episode that was cut from the NA TV run and DVDs. You can read its contents on the MAHQ here AFTER you've seen the last episode: http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/seed/gsepe.htm

Lastly, the SEED Complilation movies. They're 99.9% unnecessary and terrible from everything I've heard, but I thought I'd note the following: As noted, they show Rau's face and they alter some things in the last few battles to pave the way smoother for SEED Destiny. Also, now that you're about done, I can say that they add Rusty MacKenzie for a few short scenes--the ZAFT pilot who was meant to pilot the Strike, but was killed at Heliopolis in episode 1 without getting a face/dialogue. (Wonder if his name and general hair tone is a 0080 reference).
My Mecha/Scifi Novels: https://www.goodreads.com/series/168677 ... -war-arm-x
"May you rest in peace, the betrayed and outraged Milliardo Peacecraft."
Most-Wanted Gundam Anime: Episode Zero, Blue Destiny, Rise from the Ashes, Crossbone
User avatar
Soma Taozi
Posts: 612
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: Singing 'By Your Side' to a bunch of soldiers in Club Eden.

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Let's not forget that the first Gundam Seed Complilation movie: The Empty Battlefield has the first ever Gundam sex scene!

Yah?!

It answers your question Burke if Kira and Flay were "doing it" or just sleeping together...it REALLY answers it to an almost unnessesary level though...

But yeah, besides Rau's new face time and Tolle's head getting cut off when Athrun throws his shield at the Sky Grasper...there really isn't much to see.

Now when you watch Destiny...I reccommend the Compilation movies because for one, there are 4 of them and the cover the series farely well. Two, they really expand on some aspects of the series. Specifically the last movie. It explains some stuff about Shinn's fighting...and it further expands the ending (if Final Plus wasn't enough).

I love reading your thoughts and it is nice to see a fresh take on Gundam Seed and hopefully, Destiny soon. Keep it up!
For 2000 years I lay dormant, now I have returned to bring good cheer to you all once again!

-Me, 7/19/2020
User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4833
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

The addition of the Kira/Flay sex scene really did seem excessive to me - I mean it's not like its addition brings anything concrete to the development of the story - anyone with a brain stem can guess that the two of them did it, we didn't really have to see it animated.
Soma Taozi wrote:But yeah, besides Rau's new face time and Tolle's head getting cut off when Athrun throws his shield at the Sky Grasper...there really isn't much to see.
Not even that; I just rewatched Episode 30 again and Tolle's head getting ripped off is in the series.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
Antares
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:44 am
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Oh man. This has been so awesome to follow-up. I'm totally reliving the first viewing with Burke, and to be frank there are moments in the show that I still gladly revisit now. Quite a lot of catching up since this thread took off. Most of what you've thought out loud here I also remember thinking about. You've also received a lot of background material that has become available to us years later; when watching SEED for the first time I remember waiting for the space-whales (Evidence01) to appear. As people have mentioned, it won't. :D

By the way Burke, you dig B5 and D&D. Hum. You're my lost Internet brother, it seems. :D
You're still in for the real killer, the ending. It's going to be awesome, and I can't wait to read your thoughts on it. Remember, you tuned in for Kira, but stayed for Athrun. :mrgreen:
-We will not be caught by surprise!
*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
Burke Rukes
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Dark Duel wrote:The addition of the Kira/Flay sex scene really did seem excessive to me - I mean it's not like its addition brings anything concrete to the development of the story - anyone with a brain stem can guess that the two of them did it, we didn't really have to see it animated.
I don't have a problem with a sex scene if it's not purely gratuitous and advances the story and illustrates the characters' personalities well. I'm not sure any sex scene between the two is truly necessary. I watched the final 5 episodes last night and we do see one snippet that makes it pretty darned clear they were doing the ol' horizontal hip shuffle. :P
Antares wrote:Oh man. This has been so awesome to follow-up. I'm totally reliving the first viewing with Burke, and to be frank there are moments in the show that I still gladly revisit now. Quite a lot of catching up since this thread took off. Most of what you've thought out loud here I also remember thinking about. You've also received a lot of background material that has become available to us years later; when watching SEED for the first time I remember waiting for the space-whales (Evidence01) to appear. As people have mentioned, it won't. :D
Yeah, I guess I'm lucky in that respect, having all of you to fall back on to help explain things and get background info and flesh out my thoughts and ideas. I wish I had the time to reply to everybody on everything, but I really do appreciate everyone's comments here. It's been a lot of fun sharing this all with you. :)
Antares wrote:By the way Burke, you dig B5 and D&D. Hum. You're my lost Internet brother, it seems. :D
Hee-hee! Babylon 5 is the greatest science fiction television series ever. Period. I'm pretty rabid about it, and have watched the entire series and all its spinoffs and sequel movies at least a couple of dozen times over the last 18 or so years. The ending of Sleeping in Light still makes me bawl like a baby every time I watch it. I still get more out of it on every viewing, seeing things I've always missed or looking at things in a new light. B5 is a gift that keeps on giving to me. It's always good to know there are lots of fellow fans out there. :)
Antares wrote:You're still in for the real killer, the ending. It's going to be awesome, and I can't wait to read your thoughts on it. Remember, you tuned in for Kira, but stayed for Athrun. :mrgreen:
LOL! Yeah, those two. And Lacus. And Flay. And Le Creuset. And pretty much the whole cast! I was up pretty late last night watching the last episodes, and I even found a copy of Final Phase to watch right after, after reading about it here. (Unfortunately, the subs were not in English, but MAHQ has a review/synopsis. :P ) I'll need some time today to organize my notes and thoughts before I post on those episodes - it takes about as much time, if not more time, to do that than actually watch the episodes, heheh. But I do have a lot to say, and can't wait to share it with you all. :)
Believe in the sign of Zeta!

- Burke

Top current headline from The Weekly Earth Sphere Post:
COLONIES RISK GRAVITY LOSS DISASTER FROM LABOR STRIKE!
Grav-Making Hamsters Demand Well-Lubricated Wheels, Shorter Hours, Yummier Food
User avatar
Dark Duel
Posts: 4833
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote:I don't have a problem with a sex scene if it's not purely gratuitous and advances the story and illustrates the characters' personalities well. I'm not sure any sex scene between the two is truly necessary.
I normally don't either, but my problem with the added scene in the compilation movies is that it's exactly that. The series itself makes it abundantly clear what happened, so adding the scene in was pure gratuitous fanservice.
Burke Rukes wrote:I watched the final 5 episodes last night and we do see one snippet that makes it pretty darned clear they were doing the ol' horizontal hip shuffle. :P
That wouldn't happen to be the scene where an exhausted Kira has a brief flashback to that particular event as a concerned Lacus looks down at him, would it?
That scene always makes me laugh. :lol:
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
DuelGundam2099

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Since we're talking about the SEED compilation movies may I ask if there was anything different/added in the second movie around the battle of ORB? Because when I was watching it the movie cut out just as the trio (Raider, Forbidden, and Calamity) was launching.

When Burke gets to Destiny I recommend him watching Final Plus, it gives the series a more fleshed out epilogue. That reminds me, I still need to see the Destiny compilation movies.

I'm also glad you're enjoying this, Burke; so what do you think of the Duel overall? 8)
User avatar
Sume Gai
Posts: 3909
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:57 pm
Location: side 3; watchin' out for Zabis

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

I'm highly interested to hear your final thoughts on SEED. Going through this thread really reminded me how much I enjoyed the series the first time around. Something I must confess to have forgotten somewhat in the wake of my disappointment of Destiny (which retroactively ruined something from this Series).

SEED may not be perfect but it does a wonderful job depicting a 'vicious cycle' and proposing a possible solution. It's characters are largely sympathetic and interesting and the music is simply wonderful.
"If You are a man you'll do what's important before you grieve" -Captain Harlock

"I like the SAGA. Its what Rambo would pilot if he was in Gundam 00" -Kylern
User avatar
Arbiter GUNDAM
Posts: 2904
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:36 pm
Location: Cruisin' the Universe w/Spaceman Spiff!!!
Contact:

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Dark Duel wrote:
Burke Rukes wrote:I don't have a problem with a sex scene if it's not purely gratuitous and advances the story and illustrates the characters' personalities well. I'm not sure any sex scene between the two is truly necessary.
I normally don't either, but my problem with the added scene in the compilation movies is that it's exactly that. The series itself makes it abundantly clear what happened, so adding the scene in was pure gratuitous fanservice.
QFT.

As we're wrapping up here I'd like to make a few points concerning the battle at Mendel, a few things that I kinda wished that they'd done.

1. Rau's The Star!
Even with everything that's revealed about Mu and Kira and the Mendel facility, I can't help but think that it was added purely to give a BIG DRAMATIC REVEAL for Rau's true identity. I believe it was mentioned on Gundamn! that Rau has spent the majority of this series being mysterious for the sake of mysterious and here is where everything has to be explained (mostly) right before The Final Battle. Would it have killed them to make some hints towards this before they had to cram it in right at the end?

2. Kira's The Ultimate Coordinator... So What?
Another Big Reveal, our buddy Kira Yamato is a perfected Coordinator. And? Um, not much. Rau does the big shocker of revealing to Kira his origins and... so? Kira doesn't gain any new powers as a result of this. I don't recall him making all that big a deal about it emotionally (remember a couple of months or so passed between the battle at Mendel and the Final Battle). Wait, scratch that, he did cry about it didn't he? But he does seem to have gotten over it by the end of the show.
It seems to ultimately have more to do with Rau than Kira, giving him another reason to want to judge humanity. And perhaps explain Kira's preternatural piloting ability. *shrugs* They coulda just made him a Newtype like Mu for all the good it does us.

3. No Kira And Mu... I Am Your Father!
Who is Al Da Flaga really? Exactly why did he think Mu was so defective and wanted a clone?
Spoiler
Why was more than one clone made?
How much influence did he have in the EA?
What exactly happened at Mendel? I assume Via and Ulen Hibiki are dead but how did they die? Were they killed by Blue Cosmos? Did Via kill her husband for stealing Kira out of her womb and then committed suicide? What happened? How was Lord Uzumi mixed up in this and how did he get the children? Why did he keep Cagalli and what made Kira's foster parents the best choice for keeping his secret?
Spoiler
You know what would have been a great plot point in Destiny? If the Seirans had found out about the fact that Cagalli was not Uzumi's natural daughter and all the shadiness surrounding her origin. Instead of CAGALLI MY HONEY LET'S GET MARRIED.
That all said, these last dozen episodes of SEED are the best of the series and I had the most fun in the show with these last few battles.
I can fly if I ride the wind! Gori gori!

--Freyja Wion
Zeonista
Posts: 1178
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: in ur colony, steelin ur gundam

Re: Burke's First Impressions of Gundam Seed!

Burke Rukes wrote: There's also some spoilers in the new opening... some big "omg" stuff but I kinda wish I hadn't been spoiled.
Think of it as fair warning. What did you think of the last ED?
Cagalli is still lost in grief over losing her father, and learning that Kira is her brother. Kira and Athrun visit her to comfort her, and Kira is shocked to learn that Cagalli is his sister.
Insert random Return of the Jedi joke here. :D
Are they twins? They look about the same age in the photo.
Yes, they are fraternal twins, explanation of which is given in full later. Kira says the right thing by saying her to remember who her actual father in life was.
On the PLANTs, Lacus is running a resistance movement, with pirate broadcasts of a message of peace and speaking out against the war. Zala continues to pound his podium look a good dictator, branding her a traitor and spewing the anti-Natural rhetoric, always playing on the public's fear of another Bloody Valentine. Lacus (and we the audience) now learn that Orb's Kaguya spaceport was destroyed, but the Earth Forces also invaded and retook Victoria spaceport and its mass driver. Meanwhile, Zala's troops continue their hunt for her and her father, and in a brief, tragic scene, they find Siegel Clyne's hideout and assassinate him.
Zala discovers that turning into a warlord didn't solve his difficulty in waging war, but only complicated it further. Plus, the failure of Spitbreak and the losses at JOSH-A haunt ZAFT now, as they lose territory to the Strike Dagger-equipped OMNI forces. The situation is now the one that Zala sold his soul to prevent; the EAF forces are doing a full-court press, with blood in their eye.
Yzak has a problem believing Lacus is a traitor. Le Creuset tells him to not let his thoughts get tangled in the confusion of war, to remember what he's fighting against.
Are you starting to feel that Rau actually wants PLANTS and EAF to go all-out against each other? ;) Yzak is no longer blinded by his arrogance, and he has lost his absolute trust of the leadership now that Zala has seized power. Plus, he naturally balks at the idea of Lacus being an enemy of the people. If Zala's regime sees lcaus Clyne as their opponent, then what does that say about them in turn?
Azrael feels disappointed that the Calamity, Raider and Forbidden Gundams were unable to take Orb, and he's now going into space, with the intention of trying to get his hands on the Freedom and Justice. He suspects that with their power, they must be nuclear powered.
So much for keeping that big secret! Azrael is no fool; if ZAFT has produced new Gundams in power beyond his three powerhouses, then they are using technology that provides that power. Now to see about obtaining/copying it.... This is a touch of arms race reality which nicely upholds the story.
Though this is a theme that continues for several episodes, it just now occurred to me as I write this that the appearance of the Justice and Freedom Gundams not only marks a "game changing" event in favor of the Three Ships Alliance, but illustrates just how desperate the Earth Forces and ZAFT are now.
You've got it! Freedom and Justice were supposed to be game-clenching weapons for ZAFT, giving them decisive quality edge. Now Azarael realizes the potential extent of that edge, and realizes he needs to strike quick and hard, before a couple ore nuke-powered Gundams appear and save the Coordinators from the holocaust he has in mind.
At the Earth Forces' Lunar base, we see the Dominion, a dark-colored (*cough* Titans colors *cough*) sister ship to the Archangel. Its captain is.... dunh dunh DUNH! The newly-promoted Lieutenant Commander Natarle Badgiruel!
Well, Natarle got the command she always wanted to have, so to speak. You'd think she'd be happier about it, but events have spoiled the moment for her.
Yzak is checking out Le Creuset's new MS, a not-too-shabby looking model called GuAIZ.
GuAIZ is like tje Gelgoog, a top-notch MP MS arriving too late to provide a decisive factor in the fighting. Although any resemblance to Patrick Zala's regime and the late-war administration of Gihren Zabi is only a coincidence. Or maybe not. ;)
50 ZAFT mobile suits move to attack the Eternal, which doesn't have any MS's on board - it was designed to be used exclusively for the Justice and Freedom Gundams. Lacus broadcasts a plea for them to let Eternal leave, and to ask themselves what they should be fighting against. They attack anyway, and Eternal puts up a pretty good defense (it looks like ZAFT built Eternal's capabilities in response to the Archangel), but it's getting overwhelmed. However, Kira shows up with the Freedom and saves their bacon with some good anti-missile shooting and its rainbow-colored beam spam of not-death. Kira is surprised to see Lacus aboard - and shocked to see Andy Waltfeld is still alive.
Lacus finally takes the field in Eternal, and makes the Three Ships Alliance a reality. She takes Athrun along as well, since she wants both her champions with her. It's the last resort for Lacus, who had tried every other method of changing things at home. Kira plays Big Damn Hero again, and is rewarded by a reunion with Lacus and Waltfeld.
Kira says Waltfeld has a legitimate reason to kill him (the death of Aisha). His reply confuses me, though: "We're in a war. Everyone has a reason, and yet no one does." Huh? Did he miss all the -killing- going on? I thought the whole endless eye-for-an-eye warfare was one of the central points of the series.
Kira wanted to know why Waltfeld would forgive him for causing Aisha's death, instead of following the instant enemies path like he and Athrun did. Black KNight nicely explains the answer.
In an amusing and heart-warming moment, Cagalli tells Athrun (whose arm is in a sling after being shot), "You're always getting hurt." His reply? "Your amulet saved me." Awwww! :D
Yeah, they are an official couple now. :)
Lacus has really changed so much, probably one of the most surprising character developments in this whole series - from cute and ditzy pop idol singer to a heroic resistance leader with clear moral convictions and the guts to back them up! Cagalli also asks and comments about he and Kira's relationships to Lacus. Athrun says he's no longer engaged to her because he was a fool. Cagalli says Kira is being a fool, too - I guess she sees that Kira and Lacus may become a couple?
I told you there was more to her than the Pink Princess shtick, and the Eternal jacking is the final proof that she is serious about ending the war. At some time, the heroic resistance has to fight for the Right, and the Three Ships Alliance has reached that point, in no small part to Lacus pushing Kira and Athrun (and others) towards certain decisions. (My own opinion is that Lacus is the true"Ultimate Coordinator", not Kira.) And yes, Kira is being a fool. He will need to work out a few existing issues first before he can discard his folly and live happily ever after with Lacus. :)
Aboard the Vesalius, Le Creuset, Yzak and Flay are in a meeting about the situation with Lacus, Waltfeld and the Clyne Faction, and the Eternal's flight to the L4 colony group. Le Creuset is surprised that Waltfeld would switch sides like this, and it sounds like quite a few other members of ZAFT are defecting as well. He tells Yzak that Athrun is now his enemy. Yzak says he'll shoot down any traitor.
There are defections occurring, as individual ZAFT personnel weigh Clyne versus Zala, and make a run for it. HOwever, they are the exception, not the rule. Yzak gave the only answer that he could make in public on the matter. He hasn't reached his breaking point yet.

BTW did you notice another red-coated elite pilot at the briefing? ;)
I also have to take a moment to vehemently disagree with Cagalli here. It's one thing to have a difference of opinion with your father on matters of peace-keeping policy. It's another when your father is a foaming-at-the-mouth genocidal bigot who's shot you. When the violence line is crossed, any hope for or semblance of a loving familiar relationship is gone. I'm sorry, but if Patrick Zala were -my- father, he would no longer be in my life. Period.
Hey, Patrick Zala is Athrun's father. He's family, and that's not a bond easily set aside. Plus, Athrun needed to validate his new-found individuality to his father, with winning him over as an ultimate potential reward. He didn't get it, but that's not Athrun's fault.
Seriously, Natarle... seeing what's happening around you, the slimy creeps like Azrael you're ordered to kowtow to, and knowing what you know about your superior officers and the betrayal they pulled on your fellow soldiers at JOSH-A, you still wear that uniform and follow their orders? Sigh... I really, really hate nationalistic, militaristic brainwashing...
I agree with Black Knight here that it is her devotion to duty keeping her loyal, rather than any other factor. That being said, it is a genuine devotion, wrongly used by a superior who doesn't value any obedience freely given instead of coerced. Seeing Azrael up close in action is Natarle's revelation that her loyalty and duty are owed to men who don't care about such things.
Azrael says that if problems could be solved by talking, there would be no conflict, and he orders the Druggies' Gundams to launch.
Azrael has a lot of nerve to say that, considering that he is the leader of Blue Cosmos, which has labored long to make conflict inevitable and talking futile. But then he is issuing an official STFU to the parley, so he doesn't have to be sincere.
However, Athrun has a seed-burst moment and flies in, stopping the beam with Justice's shield (and it's a VERY good shield!) and manages to force the power of the BFG beam back into the Calamity's chest, disabling the weapon! That was pretty spectacular. :)
Athrun finally gets to be the badass he could be if he was able to freely give 100% to his side.
Yzak is shocked to hear the voice of his old teammate Dearka transmitted from the Buster as they fight. The Archangel can't contact Buster and Strike, so Kira goes into the colony after them. Yzak sees the Freedom approaching, realizing it's Kira piloting it, and gets ready to attack, but Dearka intervenes. Dearka tells Kira to let him handle it, with Kira warning him not to let happen what happened between him and Athrun.
This scene is actually Dearka's best one in the series. He has learned from watching and listening to Kira & Athrun! Dearka knows what he is fighting for, and it's not to keep haters in power. He plays it cool, forcing Yzak to just stand there and listen to him. His plain-spoken argument offsets all of the Zala regime agitprop and rau's calculated cyniism, and lets Yzak remember everything he didn't like about the war's progress.
Inside the building, Le Creuset taunts Mu, asking if he knows what the building is. Mu doesn't know, and Le Creuset says it's a crime not to know. Kira and Mu call out to each other, and so Le Creuset learns that Kira is still alive. He invites them to come to "where it all began," and where he claims Kira was born. The building is the "BL4+ Humangene Manipulation Lab," which contains a lot of still-functioning equipment, tanks with fetuses, etc.
And now you know the big story behind Rau, Mu, Kira, and Cagalli. Doctor Hibiki really believed he could produce the people to change the future. Maybe he was been successful, if not entirely in the way he intended. Now maybe if he had made up a secret foundation to make sure his little hypothesis turned out the way he wanted, he might have gotten somewhere. :)
And Rau is one very bitter man, determined to avenge his unwanted existence on everyone else.
"I am fire. I am death. I am Hashmal."

"Discontent is the first step in the progress for a man or a nation." - Oscar Wilde
Post Reply