Fate/Zero

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Sulendil Zeta
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Sulendil Zeta » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:12 am

... And Fate/Zero is back! Very nice OP, very nice ED, very good animation, and very epic battle awaits in episode 14. And for next episode...
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Someone is gonna get Excalibur-ed! Hope they will play 'Sword of Promised Victory' when Saber does her famous Phantasm. :D

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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:14 pm

Personally I thought the opening was underwhelming. First season's was much better.
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Dark Duel
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:22 pm

The first season OP was FREAKIN' AWESOME. Listening to it right now.
The new Op is...okay. It's pretty good, but not as good as the first. Same goes for the ED theme

Glad to have this to watch. Fate/Zero is great; as much as I know going in that it ain't gonna end well, I still generally prefer this to the original Fate/SN anime. I like it about as much as UBW though.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:27 pm

I'll always prefer the original FSN. Fate/Zero just feels too... heartless.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Well, the thing of it is, anyone who's familiar at all with Fate/Stay Night will know going into Fate/Zero that it isn't gonna end well.
That's the problem with a prequel.
Mind you I liked Fate/Stay Night. I preferred Unlimited Blade Works, personally - though I had a couple of issues with both, and I'd be very curious to see an anime adaptation of Heaven's Feel.
For my part, as for /Zero...
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I cheered in this episode when Caster's Master got shot. He was just a complete monster who got what he deserved.
I am looking forward (sort of) to the next episode though. On the one hand, it's gonna be awesome. But on the other, we're that much closer to the end of my favorite of /Zero's Servants.
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Berserker v. Archer was awesome, again. Berserker's just kickass.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:09 pm

Even with the foregone conclusion the series is unecessarily bleak. Aside from Rider and Iri the main cast is just too super serious. Of course with this kind of thing it's a proper attitude, but I still prefer stuff like Rin getting flustered by Shirou, or Illya hanging out with him at the park, or Sakura trying to resist some sweets.
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Dark Duel
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:06 pm

True. Part of the issue of course is that with a mostly adult cast (They're all adults except for Waver), the mood is almost guaranteed to be more serious by definition - Iri excepted, and even she has her serious moments. By contrast, the cast of F/SN were all kids.
Personally, I liked both. And actually, I think I'll rewatch Fate/Stay Night again after this - the original anime mind you, not UBW. It's been years since I saw it last, and UBW to me felt pretty similar to /Z in terms of the overall mood.

Iri and Waver are by far my favorite of the Masters, the latter because the entire dynamic between tiny, wimpy Waver and gigantic muscular Large Ham Rider is simply hilarious, the former because...well I dunno, she's just cute and sweet and funny. :cry:
Plus she was driving one of the most beautiful sports cars ever created at one point in the previous season.
I don't like Kiritsugu much, he's too depressing.
I've always disliked Kirei, and I'm ambivalent on Tokiomi. Kayneth I didn't like either, though I did briefly feel sorry for him when his psycho girlfriend started breaking his fingers and threatened to lop his hand off.
Ryuunosuke was mildly amusing for about thirty seconds, but after a while I just wanted him to DIE. Kariya...I feel so sorry for him, knowing how much he's suffering - and all in vain.

For the most part, I very much prefer the Servants in /Zero to those of /Stay Night (Saber's the same so she doesn't count) - especially Lancer, Berserker, and Caster. I like Assassin in /Zero better because he's IMO a more accurate arechetypal description of his class; "Assassin" in /SN could've been a Saber-class just as easily, and in fact IMO would be a better fit for that class*(Mind you I'm referring specifically to the "Assassin" from /SN and /UBW, not Zouken Matou's Servant from /HF).
Rider...I don't really have a favorite - I like 'em both. Which is part of the reason why I want to see a /HF anime adaptation.
Gilgamesh is a gigantic a-hole, so I very much prefer his counterpart in /SN; Plus as Reality Marbles go, IMO Unlimited Blade Works is a lot cooler than Gate of Babylon. Caster...don't really much like either one; but the difference is that while I mildly dislike Caster in /SN, I HATE Caster in /Zero.
And /Zero Berserker is all kinds of badass. IMO far cooler than the brain-dead musclebound meathead from /SN.
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Compass
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Compass » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:10 am

I liked the fighter combat in this one. Very tongue-in-cheek references too.

I am tempted to ask my friends who have never seen this series to watch F/Z first before FSN, and see how they treat it :shock:
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:30 pm

Eh, Saber's use of Excalibur here isn't that great. Definitely nowhere near as good as when she first used it in FSN.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:13 pm

Finally saw the last episode, and I for one enjoyed it a lot. It was nice to see Saber use Excalibur again - I can't very well remember F/SN because it's been so long since I last saw it, but it was pretty awesome nonetheless. Plus it was great to finally see that freak Caster die.
The flip side of that is that, unfortunately judging from the preview dialog it looks like my favorite character's next to go :( :cry:
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:15 pm

Finally, an episode that I thought was extremely well paced and didn't waste much time.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Compass » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:12 am

What the bleep did I just watch. :shock:
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Sulendil Zeta » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:21 am

Compass wrote:What the bleep did I just watch. :shock:
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You just witnessed how Kritsugu kills people. Ruthless, efficient and very foolproof. :D

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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:42 am

You watched the cast get thinned out by 4 people and Saber getting told.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Shinji103 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:32 am

Destiny_Gundam wrote:You watched the cast get thinned out by 4 people and Saber getting told.
Seeing as how Kiritsugu's expression after Saber's last couple lines just screamed "WUT WAS THAT B**CH?! ARRRGH I CAN'T ARGUE AGAINST THAT!!!", and especially considering which speech Kiritsugu passes on to Shirou for Fate/Stay Night, I'd say Saber was the one who got the last laugh there. And rightfully so.

Yeah yeah, being pessimistic is all nice and cool *rolls eyes*, but the realist stance only excuses so much. After that, you're just a guy killing lots of people in an ugly way for something you think is right. He's basically taking his opinion of the truth and forcing it on everyone else, especially those who get in his way.
I see lots of people trying to justify this with "all's fair in love and war" and "the victor is right." But the first is just old and not at all true (not all is fair in war, even war was its own kind of rules, that's why there's a thing called "war crimes"). And the second is just wrong; that reasoning basically says any schoolyard bully or mass murderer is right just because he comes out on top.

Even Iri, the one who's been most supportive of him, is starting to get fed up.

Even worse was Kiritsugu's ice-cold stature at Kayneth begging him to end his suffereing. He may have been bound by the contract to not hurt him, but it takes a special kind of bas**** to not even bat an eye at something like that, whether he had it coming or not.

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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:03 pm

Still, Saber's ideals of honor and stuff are pretty dumb from a realistic standpoint. War is not glorious, it's a desperate struggle for survival.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Shinji103 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:11 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:Still, Saber's ideals of honor and stuff are pretty dumb from a realistic standpoint. War is not glorious, it's a desperate struggle for survival.
None of which makes "the ends justify the means" or any such viewpoint any more acceptable. Saber's view may be naive (to say dumb is overstating it, she's fought through some serious stuff), but Kiritsugu's beliefs are worse. His ultimate goals may be good, but the way his methods are so deeply rooted in such a horribly pessimistic viewpoint isn't.

On a side note, that's not quite how I expected the priest would come to his end. :shock:

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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:35 pm

Really think about Kiritsugu's actions, though. He's only killed his enemies, just like his enemies would have killed him if they got the chance. He sniped Ryuunosuke, and lord knows that guy deserved it, when he bombed Kayneth's hotel he had it evacuated first, and here he got rid of Lancer in a definitive manner that prevented further harm to Saber. She wasn't fighting him with her all for a dumb reason, after all. If she would have fought him seriously from the start she probably would have killed him in battle like he wanted and he wouldn't have died in such a pathetic manner.

We know that Saber's ideals are wrong. Rider's called her out on it, Kiritsugu called her out on it, and the entire point of the Fate route is getting her to give up on those ideals.
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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Shinji103 » Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:03 pm

Being an "enemy" doesn't unilaterally mean they have to die, you know. Even Kayneth, as much of a dislikeable douchebag as he was, didn't deserve death so badly, and certainly not as bad a death as Kiritsugu so callously gave him. He wasn't a bloody murderer like Caster or Ryuunosuke, who Kiritsugu had no problem letting run amok slautering children until it was convenient or necessary to his plan to kill. And of course, let's not forget poor Lancer. Surely a guy like Kiritsugu could have at least came up with a far less painful and suffering end for them.
Normally masters can form new pacts, but it was pretty dang clear that Kayneth and Sola were broken. Kiritsugu had Maya put several rounds in a guy in a wheelchair with his unconscious and armless wife in his arms. Not exactly Public Threat #1.
Merely evacuating that hotel did not guarantee safety for bystanders in any way whatsoever. He blew up a dang building. Not exactly a discreet action. There were plenty of things that could have gone wrong. He just lucked out that nobody around the building was killed. (and of course it helps that this is a TV show)
And it may have seemed dumb to you, but obviously you're not trying to see it from their perspective; they wanted a fair (or as fair as could be) one-on-one duel. She didn't use her left hand because Lancer sacrificed one of his lances for her. If she'd gone all out, if would have dishonored him just as much. This was not a war here; it was a one-on-one duel. It wasn't the hell of a battlefield where honor and chivalry don't apply, as Kiritsugu tried to spout.

Where are you getting this thing about Saber's ideals being called out by Rider and proven wrong in F/S N? Rider disagreed with her reason for wanting the grail, not honor or chivalry. Rider has only displayed the same honor and chivalry several times. You're mixing things up quite a bit there. The Fate route in F/S N is about her realizing she's wrong to want to rewrite Britain's history with a different king, and that's what Rider was calling her out on. In this episode Saber and Kiritsugu are arguing about honor and chivalry, i.e. Lancer being dishonored so horribly and Kayneth and Sola being killed so brutally after he blatantly lied to them. (Kiritsugu only protected the word of the pact, not the spirit; there's a very big difference, just as in the word and spirit of the law) Two very different things that have nothing to do with each other.

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Re: Fate/Zero

Post by Compass » Fri May 04, 2012 11:24 am

Surprised no comments about this week. This one is pretty bonkers too.
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