I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

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zerogradius
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I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by zerogradius » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:36 pm

...and it was better than I thought it would be, the second half, at least. The first half of the show was not horrendous, it was enjoyable in its own way (except for all those Gemon episodes). I liked how quirky Master Mashymyre and Gottn were for Gundam villains and how goofily determined the crew of the Endra was to defeat the AEUG. However, after the masterpiece that was Zeta Gundam, this show looks meager in comparison. It could have had more protagonist deaths, especially for guys like Beecha and Mondo who I did not care for at all. Put Bright in the Nahel Argama and Iino in the Hyaku Shiki and its like they were never there. The final battle between Judau and Haman was epic and was one of the best duels in Gundam history, IMO (though Judau did have an unfair advantage with Puru and friends helping him). In all, I liked this show more than most of the AUs that I've seen. I do have some questions though.

1. Glemy was clearly an important figure in Neo Zeon if he could have a private meeting with Haman in her mansion. If that's the case, why was he a rookie pilot on the Endra of all places taking orders from Gottn.

2. If Haman suspected that Glemy was staging a revolt, why didn't she do something about it. As vicious as she was, I don't see why that was not a priority on her part.

3. Haman told Judau in one of the last episodes that Glemy was very dangerous and that he wanted to bring back the bloodthirsty Zeon of old. What did she mean by that and how could Glemy be an more bloodthirsty than Haman who had a colony dropped on Dublin.

4. What happened to the Earth Federation? During the One Year War, they did all they could to stop the Zeon, yet the EF in 0088 seemed like they could care less and did all they could to appease the Neo Zeon.

5. Did Puru Two die? It seemed that way, and she was not shown at all when Judau left for Jupiter. However, she was a main character and if she died, shouldn't it have been mentioned. No one ever said anything about her dying, no one shed a tear, so it also seems just as likely that she was still alive.

6. How was the Mk II able to fight the Neo Zeon MSs when it was deemed too weak to do so during Zeta Gundam. Couldn't the AEUG at least have gotten the Super Gundam upgrade to it.

7. Were the EF and AEUG allies at the start of ZZ Gundam? Did it happen in Dakar after Char's speech? Is that why the EF threatened to have the Argama decommissioned, becasue it was an AEUG ship and the EF should not have had any jurisdiction over it.

8. Why was the AEUG top brass trying to replace Judau, Roux, Elle and the others with adults. Amuro was a kid when he led the EF to victory in the One Year War, Kamille was a kid when he led the AEUG to victory against the Titans. Given their success record thus far, what was the point of replacing them with oldtypes.

9. Among the kids in ZZ Gundam, how many were newtypes. Judau obviously was one, and I believe that Elle and Roux were newtypes as well, though they never really showed an kind of power even remotely close to Judau or Kamille. I can't tell for the rest, though I'm sure that Mondo definitely was not one.

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tHeWasTeDYouTh
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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by tHeWasTeDYouTh » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:58 pm

ZZ is like a big wtf on Gundam after you watch Zeta Gundam

I got one thing to say

MOON MOON!!!!!
YOU'RE MESHI
DAMNYOUYAMATOTAKERUNOMIKOTOOOOOO!

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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:34 pm

Am I the only person here who thought the Moon Moon arc (or anything after the first eleven episodes) was enjoyable?

Anyway, I can't answer most of the questions, but I will answer this:
4. What happened to the Earth Federation? During the One Year War, they did all they could to stop the Zeon, yet the EF in 0088 seemed like they could care less and did all they could to appease the Neo Zeon.
That is because the Earth Federation did not have the resources at the time and were still recovering from the Gryps Conflict (the war in Zeta Gundam). Their elite task force (the Titans) were pretty much all destroyed with the exception of Yazan. Many of the "normal" forces were also destroyed during this time, making it extremely hard for them to fight back; this is especially true when Jaburo got nuked, which was their main base. No main base, no real organization for sometime, thus no real combat strategy could be done.

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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by Darkerangel » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:50 pm

zerogradius wrote: 3. Haman told Judau in one of the last episodes that Glemy was very dangerous and that he wanted to bring back the bloodthirsty Zeon of old. What did she mean by that and how could Glemy be an more bloodthirsty than Haman who had a colony dropped on Dublin.
<,,< don't quote me lol, but I want to say she was referring to Gihren's Zeon ideals.
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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:06 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:Am I the only person here who thought the Moon Moon arc (or anything after the first eleven episodes) was enjoyable?
No, you're not alone. Moon Moon is a like a running joke here but I actually liked it and all of ZZ.
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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by mcred23 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:42 am

zerogradius wrote:1. Glemy was clearly an important figure in Neo Zeon if he could have a private meeting with Haman in her mansion. If that's the case, why was he a rookie pilot on the Endra of all places taking orders from Gottn.
AFAIK, that is a result of his role changing during the show. His role in the second half of the show was originally ment for Char, but CCA was approved during ZZ's run, so Char's story would be there and he was taken out of ZZ, with Glemy getting promoted to fill the spot.
zerogradius wrote:4. What happened to the Earth Federation? During the One Year War, they did all they could to stop the Zeon, yet the EF in 0088 seemed like they could care less and did all they could to appease the Neo Zeon.
The Earth Federation was utterly shattered. The Gryps War was, for all intents and purposes, a civil war for the Federation, with the Titans on one side and the AEUG (Which was made up almost entirely of former Earth Federation Forces members) on the other. By the end of the war, both sides were largely wiped out, the AEUG down to a handful of ships that are basically folded back into the EFF and the Titans basically non-exsistant (With the handful of survivors being scattered about, mainly joining Neo Zeon). The regular Federation Forces, although barely seen during the course of Zeta, are also assumed to have lost quite a bit of strength during the Gryps, leading to the situation of the Earth Sphere in ZZ (And to quickly correct DuelGundam2099, Jaburo had been degraded to little more than a supply base, which is why it was nuked; We don't really know where the EFF's main base was, if they even have a single main base anymore).
zerogradius wrote:7. Were the EF and AEUG allies at the start of ZZ Gundam? Did it happen in Dakar after Char's speech? Is that why the EF threatened to have the Argama decommissioned, becasue it was an AEUG ship and the EF should not have had any jurisdiction over it.
Yes, they were allies, but it didn't happen as a result of Char's speech. Char seems to get the Federation Assembly thinking about things and got the ball moving, but Jamitov basically keeps the Federation on the side of the Titans. However, after he is killed, the Federation finally seems to stop supporting the Titans and openly side with the AEUG. At the end of the Gryps War, with the AEUG largely wiped out, it's basically implied (If not stated outright) that the former AEUG units rejoin the EFF, hence the Argama's situation.
zerogradius wrote:8. Why was the AEUG top brass trying to replace Judau, Roux, Elle and the others with adults. Amuro was a kid when he led the EF to victory in the One Year War, Kamille was a kid when he led the AEUG to victory against the Titans. Given their success record thus far, what was the point of replacing them with oldtypes.
They had success, but the powers that be really weren't crazy about them, as the Federation leadership had something of a fear of Newtypes, which is why Amuro is basically locked away after the OYW. The idea of trying to replace the young Newtypes with basically anything else inspite of their success seems to fit right along with the ideas of the Federation higher ups, IMO.
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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by padre » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:25 am

mcred23 wrote:it's basically implied (If not stated outright) that the former AEUG units rejoin the EFF, hence the Argama's situation.
Where, exactly? As far as I can tell, we don't see the Federation do anything for the first 27 or so episodes of ZZ, whereupon we see the Federation government welcome Haman to Dakar and the AEUG and Karaba attack them. There's nothing in those episodes that indicates the Federation and the AEUG are cooperating. The Federation officials are just as much in the line of fire as the Zeon ones are. The next time we see the Federation do anything is Dublin, where they're clearly antagonistic toward the AEUG. Finally, at the end of the series, we see the Federation and the AEUG send a fleet to Side 3. But when before that is there any indication that the Federation is helping the AEUG?
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Re: I finally finished ZZ Gundam...

Post by mcred23 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:12 am

I think it's something implied during the end of Zeta, rather than it being shown clearly in ZZ. When the Federation government (And thus, the regular EFF) stop supporting the Titans after Jamitov is killed, it's pretty much assumed that they and the AEUG would end up back together, as afteall the whole point of the AEUG was to fight the Titans, whom both sides are now fighting (The Titans would be trying to retain their control over the regular Federal Forces). At around that point, you start seeing both sides sharing equipment, like in Gundam Sentinel, which has EFSF units running around with AEUG-ish equipment (Zeta units and an Argama class, namely), and I believe the new GM III is shown being used by both the EFF (In Sentinel) and AEUG/Karaba units during the period. However, I forget if the text of Sentinel, or any of the book sources, shed any additional light on that matter.

Although on a related note, I stumbled onto this interesting post Mark made way back when, which IMO makes quite a bit of sense and does add another layer onto the situation of the Federation at the time and further helps explain their actions. Really, the ZZ era is the lowest point for the Federation Forces (The Federal Government is always pretty bad and corrupt, while the EFF military is generally not that bad...), and those who are left after the AEUG rejoined them probably aren't all that happy with them for various reasons.
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