Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

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schwarz ritter
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:20 pm

Exactly! Now, why would we even bother to know what happened in UC 0096 if there will be no relevance whatsoever ten years later?

It's the model kit conspiracy, you see: we need more HGUCs, so we need more of this stuff.

Hopefully, OVA will make it better. HOPEFULLY.

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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Overlord Zaru » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:03 am

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Basically the author makes Banagher merge with Unicorn akin to Shinji to Unit 01 when it was trapped in Leliel, but instead of going off into space for "infinite possibilities" Banagher misses the warmth Mineva gave him and the NT-D goes "meh, do what you want" and returns to her arms.
At least that's what I heard.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:04 am

Isn't that what I just said?


btw: long time no see n_n
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Cybaster » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:08 am

he is then taken even further into the future, one in which humanity has moved beyond the Solar System and colonized other parts of the Galaxy (implying Macross? LOL).
I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually a reference to certain Yuichi Hasegawa manga side stories where
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an aged Judau Ashta/Grey Stoke attempts to assemble and lead a Colony Ship full of Newtypes to colonize outside the Solar System during the Crossbone/Victory Gundam eras.
That, or past the ending of the Gundam 00 Movie. :roll:
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:10 am

Cybaster wrote: That, or the ending of the Gundam 00 Movie. :roll:

Do not despair! Fukui doesn't insult us THAT much. ;)

More like, they are simple glimpses, like how the Star-Gate sequence plays out in the 2001 Space Odyssey movie.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by J-Lead » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:12 am

schwarz ritter wrote:Exactly! Now, why would we even bother to know what happened in UC 0096 if there will be no relevance whatsoever ten years later?
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Didn't Mineva pretty much castrate the Zeon cause during her reveal of laplace's box and her accompanying speech at the end? I'd say that's pretty relevant, seeing as we don't see a whole lot of Zeon after Unicorn.

I mean, there's the Oldsmobile douchers I guess, but they're just a bunch of old-timers that didn't get the ZOINKS memo.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:39 am

Well, I would assume that
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the reveal of the Laplace's Box contents would actually strengthen the Zeon cause. Or if not, then at least cause a huge, space-wide insurrection that would overthrow the Federation rule on Space. I don't see why it would castrate the Zeon cause at all. Unless, of course, Unicorn has some sort of deeper, Evangelion-esque meaning I didn't get. ME BE DUMB. ME NOT GET UNICORN NONSENSE. DUH.
Instead, we get the Crossbones, which only lasted about two decades? And ended up as hippie pirates? And then there's the Zanscares, who also lasted for a few years. Perhaps that's the effect it had: the rise of new spacenoid movements.

Like I and Ronan said, nobody will care, and all of the sacrifices will be futile. And I think that sucks.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:27 am

What bothers me is that there was no background information with what Mineva was doing from when she was last seen in Zeta-ZZ era. I guess that small scene in the Z Gundam game about her going to Earth to get an education or whatever was pretty much nullified given the fact she comments to the diner owner about it being her first time on Earth. And then there's the aftermath... a "Zeon Princess" just disappears again? :/

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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by mcred23 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:55 am

J-Lead wrote:I'd say that's pretty relevant, seeing as we don't see a whole lot of Zeon after Unicorn.

I mean, there's the Oldsmobile douchers I guess, but they're just a bunch of old-timers that didn't get the ZOINKS memo.
Well, it'd kind of hard for those groups to keep going. You're steadily running out of OYW vets and old Zeon hardliners (Or more properly, Zabi supporters, since most of the holdouts seemed tied to them in one way or another) keeping the cause going, and then I'd imagine the RoZ (Who are Anti-Zabi anyway, as shown by their actions in Zeta) giving up it's autonomy didn't help matters.
schwarz ritter wrote:Instead, we get the Crossbones, which only lasted about two decades? And ended up as hippie pirates? And then there's the Zanscares, who also lasted for a few years. Perhaps that's the effect it had: the rise of new spacenoid movements.
The Crossbones were around for around 20 years, but really only the last five of those were publically (After they attacked Frontier and founded Cosmo Babylonia) before they fell apart due to civil war, and then you get some of them off-shoot into the pirates who last another decade or so. And the Zanscare Empire is founded and defeated in just five years.

However, both of those, and all the other movements and whatnot we see in the 2nd UC Century, have more to due with lax Federation control of the colonies and the general indifference of their corrupt leaders to anything going on that doesn't directly affect them. They barely lift a finger to stop either groups rise to power, and then officially don't do a damn thing to bring them down (The Crossbones bring themselves down, while it's another case of EFSF units acting without official government support that helps defeat the Zanscares, as we mentioned in the Victory thread). I'd say that lack of opposition is the biggest reason for all those things, rather than something that is probably written off as just another small part of the Federation-Zeon conflict that ends four years later (And those groups that come along years later have their own wild agendas that really don't seem related at all to that event anyway).
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:07 pm

Deacon Blues wrote: And then there's the aftermath... a "Zeon Princess" just disappears again? :/
Indeed. The whole second half of the novel series is a bunch of rushed clusterZOINKS. I would assume Banana gets his undeserved hot sexy love with Mineva (I still think he's unworthy of her). Then again, that would be unless the Feds don't catch up to them first and "disappear" them due to the incident. Sadly, we'll never know until 2014 :/

That, or they make a sequel or some side-story to explain to us why the hell didn't the Box cause a wide-spread rebellion or some sort of "Second One Year War".
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Kratos » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:25 pm

It didn't because nobody's in a position to fight a war, and because Zeon once again loses any sort of centralized leadership (Frontal dies, Mineva renounces them, and a faction can only go through so much before it stops being able to do anything). But one thing that you will notice from later series is how weak the Federation becomes, particularly in its hold over the colonies. This could be related to Box's contents going public: a war is averted for the time being because nobody can fight one (and I imagine our heroes have something to do with that as well; I'm told the reaction to its public revelation is people "people losing their ZOINKS", but Mineva serves as a major calming influence), and the Box does, in its own way, bring about the Federation's fall - or,any rate, severely compromises their power and influence.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by mcred23 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:45 pm

Kratos wrote:But one thing that you will notice from later series is how weak the Federation becomes, particularly in its hold over the colonies. This could be related to Box's contents going public: a war is averted for the time being because nobody can fight one (and I imagine our heroes have something to do with that as well; I'm told the reaction to its public revelation is people "people losing their ZOINKS", but Mineva serves as a major calming influence), and the Box does, in its own way, bring about the Federation's fall - or,any rate, severely compromises their power and influence.
The weakness of the Federation (Or more accurately, its leaders) was being shown well before the events of Unicorn. It shows up in Zeta where they can't control a branch of their own military from committing war crimes. Then again in ZZ where the various officials do everything in their power to bow to Haman to save themselves, something they basically repeat in CCA when they willingly believe Char in an effort to avoid a war, only to have Londo Bell save their butts. Heck, the reason the OYW didn't end after a month was General Revil escaped from captivity, gave his famous "Zeon is Exhausted" speech, and that kept the Federation fighting on instead of surrendering in Antarctica as they originally intended to do.

So, aside from the OYW when Revil is basically running things, it's not like the Federation ever has anything close to strong leadership or control over anything. It's usually lower ranking guys and individual units acting on their own (Or even in direct opposition of orders) who bail the Feds out time and time again...
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Kratos » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:58 pm

Hmm, I suppose it does seem to lie on the same side as 0083, as an answer to a question that didn't exist in the first place - and plenty of people seem to enjoy 0083 in spite of this. We'll see what the OVA does with the Box and the ending, at any rate. Considering the generally high quality of the production so far, I remain optimistic.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by J-Lead » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:00 pm

schwarz ritter wrote:I would assume Banana gets his undeserved hot sexy love with Mineva (I still think he's unworthy of her).
The guy has saved her life (in quite a badass fashion, I might add) in I7 simply because he psychically "felt" her, put himself in harm's way against asinine odds so that Daguza would stop holding her hostage, saved her life again in ep5 just because he psychically heard her cry for help, and pretty much pulled her and the entire Garancieres out of Earth's gravity with sheer willpower fueling the NT-D, and then, among other things,
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gave up newtype godhood and the prospect of exploring the universe for all eternity as the perfect life form just to be with her.
At that point, I think the question is whether or not Mineva's worthy of him, and if she isn't soaking the bedsheets with Banagher on a nightly basis post-Unicorn, then I'd be mighty flabbergasted.
Kratos wrote:It didn't because nobody's in a position to fight a war, and because Zeon once again loses any sort of centralized leadership (Frontal dies, Mineva renounces them, and a faction can only go through so much before it stops being able to do anything). But one thing that you will notice from later series is how weak the Federation becomes, particularly in its hold over the colonies. This could be related to Box's contents going public: a war is averted for the time being because nobody can fight one (and I imagine our heroes have something to do with that as well; I'm told the reaction to its public revelation is people "people losing their ZOINKS", but Mineva serves as a major calming influence), and the Box does, in its own way, bring about the Federation's fall - or,any rate, severely compromises their power and influence.
Pretty much said what I was going to say. The later part of the timeline kind of imply that the colonies have governments much more separated from Federation policy. The Federation government doesn't seem to see much at stake in letting the Crossbone Vanguard take the Frontier sides, perhaps because they just don't have as much invested in colonial politics as they used to.
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Also, I think there's a part of her speech where she says that while the forced migration to space was difficult, that it was also a necessary move on the part of the Federation, and that the contents of laplace's box were basically proof that the migration was originally done with goodwill towards those forced into space, and that it was the world's responsibility to bring about the potential it enabled. Then again the translation of the ending couldn't possibly be more sloppily done, so I may be misinterpreting the line entirely.
mcred wrote:The weakness of the Federation (Or more accurately, its leaders) was being shown well before the events of Unicorn. It shows up in Zeta where they can't control a branch of their own military from committing war crimes. Then again in ZZ where the various officials do everything in their power to bow to Haman to save themselves, something they basically repeat in CCA when they willingly believe Char in an effort to avoid a war, only to have Londo Bell save their butts.
Zeta and ZZ are a bit of a special case, since in the former, pretty much their entire military was either under the command of the Titans or part of the AEUG, and in ZZ, their military strength is severely weakened and scattered thanks to the events of the preceding conflict.

But that's aside the point; Pre F91, the Federation was weak due to incompetence and really bad judgement on the part of it's leadership in terms of what to do with the military. In F91 and most series following it, the Federation literally just doesn't seem to care anymore, even when it's own troops are being slaughtered. The most oversight we see is the occasional colonial garrison, and the Crossbones were pretty much able to build and mobilize an entire army without the Federation noticing, which I imagine would be difficult to do in a Federation-controlled political environment. Even before Unicorn, I always thought the term "Warring space states" kind of implied that the colonies, by that point, were pretty much self-governed.

Then again, the setting in F91 could really use some development, since the events are pretty self-contained and don't give a whole lot of exposure to the earth's sphere aside from what it needs to show.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:03 pm

Rescue Romances. I love those: they're perhaps the most shallow kinds of romances I've ever seen. I can tell Mineva is quite smart and shallow herself. For some reason, they remind me of Twilight logic...
That, and the fact that Banana pretty much made things worse with his Mary Sue logic doesn't make him worthy of "eternal happiness". But hey, I mean, he is the Ultimate Newtype, right? He can do whatever he wants and get whatever he wants because he's perfect.


Warring Space States is a perfect termn to use in the post UC 100 era.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by J-Lead » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:31 pm

schwarz ritter wrote:Rescue Romances. I love those: they're perhaps the most shallow kinds of romances I've ever seen. I can tell Mineva is quite smart and shallow herself. For some reason, they remind me of Twilight logic...
That, and the fact that Banana pretty much made things worse with his Mary Sue logic doesn't make him worthy of "eternal happiness". But hey, I mean, he is the Ultimate Newtype, right? He can do whatever he wants and get whatever he wants because he's perfect.
I'm just going to flat out say it; Your hate for the character (which I'll say, is pretty shallow in itself) kind of making your opinion of him and his actions difficult to take seriously. I know you don't like him, but you're not going to see me discounting, say, Aang's accomplishments in ATLA just because I found him annoying (and far more mary-sueish.)
schwarz ritter wrote:Warring Space States is a perfect termn to use in the post UC 100 era.
Warring Space States is the term for the post UC 0100 era. :P

Or at least post-0120.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by schwarz ritter » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:32 pm

J-Lead wrote: Your hate for the character (which I'll say, is pretty shallow in itself)
Perhaps that's just it: its shallow and meaningless.
J-Lead wrote:
schwarz ritter wrote:Warring Space States is a perfect termn to use in the post UC 100 era.
Warring Space States is the term for the post UC 0100 era. :P
Or at least post-0120.
I wasn't saying it wasn't...
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by Cybaster » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:02 am

mcred23 wrote:Well, it'd kind of hard for those groups to keep going. You're steadily running out of OYW vets and old Zeon hardliners (Or more properly, Zabi supporters, since most of the holdouts seemed tied to them in one way or another) keeping the cause going, and then I'd imagine the RoZ (Who are Anti-Zabi anyway, as shown by their actions in Zeta) giving up it's autonomy didn't help matters.
That, and Mafty's resorting to terror tactics in UC0105 to reinforce the Zeon (read: Quess') cause probably killed any credibility Mineva might've restored with Laplace's Box to begin with --- Hathaway had turned a legitimate Zeonic war of independence into his own personal campaign of vengeance against the Federation (especially after his true identity as Mafty Navue Erin was revealed to the local press, making him look like a brat rebelling against his father's beliefs rather than a legitimate crusader for spacenoid rights), and after Mafty was suppressed, the Earth Sphere was outright tired of the Zeons and the Federation in turn had its own share of new warlords to deal with, so combined with a 30-year gap...people probably went their own separate ways and forgot about what Zeon fought for.

In Japanese, the term for the F91-onwards era was named the Ujou Sengoku Jidai (Era of Feuding Space States), I think.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by J-Lead » Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:39 am

Cybaster wrote:That, and Mafty's resorting to terror tactics in UC0105 to reinforce the Zeon (read: Quess') cause probably killed any credibility Mineva might've restored with Laplace's Box to begin with --- Hathaway had turned a legitimate Zeonic war of independence into his own personal campaign of vengeance against the Federation (especially after his true identity as Mafty Navue Erin was revealed to the local press, making him look like a brat rebelling against his father's beliefs rather than a legitimate crusader for spacenoid rights), and after Mafty was suppressed, the Earth Sphere was outright tired of the Zeons and the Federation in turn had its own share of new warlords to deal with, so combined with a 30-year gap...people probably went their own separate ways and forgot about what Zeon fought for.
IIRC, Mafty was more about preventing the Earth Federation from passing a bill that would allow them greater investigative powers in terms of finding people on earth they deemed "illegal" and forcefully deporting them to space. It was literally a case of "What, you don't have Earth Federation-approved citizenship? Off you go from the only home you've ever known, then. Good luck finding a new one in space!" I don't think it had anything to do with Zeon or Zeonic movements, or even spacenoid policy for that matter. The events of Hathaway's flash are more about the Federation's domestic policy, not it's foreign one.

Besides, that story is dubiously canon to begin with, given it's status as a sequel to Belty's Kids.
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Re: Gundam Unicorn Novel Ending

Post by mcred23 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:35 am

J-Lead wrote:Besides, that story is dubiously canon to begin with, given it's status as a sequel to Belty's Kids.
For what it's worth, Mark noted here (And it was discussed again here) that Sunrise does include it on their timelines, so they seem to support some version of it, although exactly what details are unknown.

That can-o-worms aside, AFAIK, the events that are included are kinda small scale and self contained, so I don't think it would have all that much of an impact on the wider universe anyway.
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