Difference between Japan and Western Fans

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Murra » Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:49 am

There's kids who like whatever's just been on TV, there's the older fans who are all die hard Universal Century fans and there's people who say "Haha, gundam, I remember that...".

That's as far as I've experienced, in stores the shelf space ratio for models tips largely towards UC. Also, anytime there's a collaboration it's always UC-centric, like the Char's custom phone for softbank a few years back, this year's RX-78-2 Docomo phone, and the 30th anniversary 7-11 event.

Really I don't think anybody likes destiny..

Also the fanbase for Gundam in Japan isn't that big actually, it's just grounded a little more, heck Gunpla Builders is a good example of desperation to regain hold on the younger markets.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Adrikan » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:05 am

Antkowiak wrote:At risk of going off topic, can anyone chime in on what sects of Gundam fandom there are in Japan? I know originally here in the states there were the "Wingers" who have somewhat gone extinct, and I know I myself am a UC purist (though reading about 00 is intriguing me). Since the series is so tied to the anime culture in Japan, I would assume there could be fans who are tied to one series or timeline, those who like it all, etc. Maybe shedding some light on the fandom as a whole could help clarify the seemingly widespread dislike of the Destiny series here in the US.
I think I might be able to identify a few of those "sects" for you.

The first sects are the ones that focus on a single series or universe. An example would be the sect you belong to, the UC purists. Another would be the number of viewers that were drawn in by SEED's incorporation of elements present in other popular media, or the Wingers you mentioned.

A secondary sect that could exist is a group that was repulsed by an aspect of one gundam series, only to become attached to another series that lacked the elements they disagreed with. An example of this is a person who watched the original Gundam series, and rejected it because of it's overly simplistic categorization of it's factions, and became a fan of SEED because it eventually revealed the flawed nature of each faction. Another example would be somebody who watched Wing, and despised the various logical shortfalls of the series, but enjoyed 08th MS team because it was more realistic.

To me, Destiny was kept from greatness by three factors. The overwhelming stupidity shown by absolutely everybody in the series, the deluge of clip shows, and the way many of the battles were written. It could have been much better, but it also could have gone the way of several older gundam shows, and become nothing more than an endless series of characters being introduced to do nothing more than die.

The irrational hatred some Western fans might have of Destiny might come from it's unpredictability. I think that Westerners dislike suprises, and learning that Shinn was a false protagonist who fights to bring about Instrumentality definitely qualifies.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by ShadowCell » Mon Jul 19, 2010 2:30 am

Judging by Code Geass's popularity in the Western anime fandom, I don't think it's true at all that Western fans dislike surprises. That said, it seems to me like only the hardcore Western Gundam fans have any particular hatred for DESTINY.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by YazanGable » Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:02 pm

Adrikan wrote:The irrational hatred some Western fans might have of Destiny might come from it's unpredictability. I think that Westerners dislike suprises, and learning that Shinn was a false protagonist who fights to bring about Instrumentality definitely qualifies.
An interesting theory, but a flawed one, as the speculation relies on the idea that the protagonist shift was planned out from the beginning. Something that numerous interviews, statements, articles, and just the general change in flow of the series suggest WASN'T the case.
Also, even if it were, that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. One of of the top criticisms I've heard from Destiny that I would consider to be a valid one (as opposed to just more contempt for Kira and Lacus bleeding over that was present from back during SEED) is the way several of the returning old cast seem to backpedal development-wise (the two most notale examples being Athrun, who seems to have learned nothing from the first series and repeats his mistakes, and Cagalli, whose personality got so drastically rewritten on the fly as to drive her voice actress to swear she'd never return to the role.)
Remember, just cause you can throw in a twist to fool your audiences doesn't mean it's a good idea to do so. Just ask M. Night Shyamalan.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Hi_Nu_Gundam » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:04 pm

Listening to alot of people here saying they got their first Gundam experience from Wing almost makes me feel luck I didnt get cable in my house until early 2001, after Wing had completed its course. Which means the first Gundam show I WAS introduced to was in fact the original 0079 Gundam when they first started airing it. I guess that's why I've never had a problem with the whole concept of newtypes, or with angsty teenagers (at least when Tomino does, watching Fukida try to pull off the same thing in SEED and Destiny made me want to punch in the throat)
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Overlord Zaru » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:57 pm

zerogradius wrote:
Also, Seed Destiny was changed in order to appease Japanese fans as Kira and Athuran took over the protagonist role from Shin, therefore fans there will appreciate the change more than those from anywhere else.
You forgot adding in Morosawa's favoritism/fangirlism, brain-cancer clouding her already idiotic judgement, and paranoia mein buddy.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by AmuroNT1 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:57 pm

Well, there's one difference between Japan and America right there: Destiny's been over for almost five years now and people in the West are STILL throwing fits over the fact that it didn't go exactly how they wanted it to. Guys, we REALLY need to put this thing to rest and move on. Complaining isn't going to make either Kira or Shinn magically die and be written out of existence. Yes, the series went poorly. Move on.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:43 pm

I'm starting to be convinced I am the only person on this site that did not have/find any serious issues with SEED Destiny.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by ShadowCell » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:09 pm

You aren't.
AmuroNT1 wrote:Well, there's one difference between Japan and America right there: Destiny's been over for almost five years now and people in the West are STILL throwing fits over the fact that it didn't go exactly how they wanted it to. Guys, we REALLY need to put this thing to rest and move on. Complaining isn't going to make either Kira or Shinn magically die and be written out of existence. Yes, the series went poorly. Move on.
*gasp*

You...you mean...stop bitching about it?

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by His Divine Shadow » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:10 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:I'm starting to be convinced I am the only person on this site that did not have/find any serious issues with SEED Destiny.
You might be. I liked Seed okay, but Destiny seemed a pathetic continuation to me.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by mcred23 » Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:24 pm

DuelGundam2099 wrote:I'm starting to be convinced I am the only person on this site that did not have/find any serious issues with SEED Destiny.
You aren't. There are (Or used to be, I'm not sure how many are still around this board these days) others who didn't have any real problem with the show. There were some people who loved it. However, as obviously shown in this (And many, many, many other threads over the years), there is a large number of people (Mainly in the Western countries, which is where most of this board is from, hence this thread :)) who, for one reason or another, do have serious issues with SEED Destiny. And that sort of leads me to the post before yours...
AmuroNT1 wrote:Well, there's one difference between Japan and America right there: Destiny's been over for almost five years now and people in the West are STILL throwing fits over the fact that it didn't go exactly how they wanted it to. Guys, we REALLY need to put this thing to rest and move on. Complaining isn't going to make either Kira or Shinn magically die and be written out of existence. Yes, the series went poorly. Move on.
We get people who throw fits over something from every single series, they all have some people who completely love them and some people who totally hated [Insert Gundam Animated Work Here]. The difference, at least to me, always seemed to be that, with Destiny, opinion of it is (Or once upon a time, was) far more sharply divided than it was with the others shows. I really can't think of any other Gundam show where everyone in the fandom seemed to either totally love it or totally hate it, with almost no middle ground. Add to that the history of its production (Rewrites and staff drama and all that sorta stuff), the way the show is (The shift to the old cast and the way the characters are), and the way people talk about all those things, it's just something that still comes up from time to time. There will always be people who are asking why it seems that 99% of North America hated the show, particularly compared to its seemingly opposite reception in Japan, and that always leads to the issues being mentioned again and again.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Antkowiak » Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:16 pm

It seems that Destiny is basically the American fandom's ZZ.

Most American Gundam fans expect compelling drama and interesting characters, much like all Japanese fans had come to expect having seen MSG and Z. Then ZZ comes out as a comedy with mostly one dimensional characters for the first portion of the series, and lots of traditional fans were miffed. Years later, that's cooled down, most fans are still gundam fans, and many have accepted ZZ for what it was. Presumably the same thing will happen with Destiny. We here in the states were able to see ZZ for what it was because we weren't given access to it when it was coming out, while with Destiny we received it simultaneously, so US viewers had a divergent response to those who were watching in Japan. Does that make any sense?

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Overlord Zaru » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:00 am

ShadowCell wrote:You aren't.
AmuroNT1 wrote:Well, there's one difference between Japan and America right there: Destiny's been over for almost five years now and people in the West are STILL throwing fits over the fact that it didn't go exactly how they wanted it to. Guys, we REALLY need to put this thing to rest and move on. Complaining isn't going to make either Kira or Shinn magically die and be written out of existence. Yes, the series went poorly. Move on.
*gasp*

You...you mean...stop bitching about it?

Heresy! This man speaks heresy! Summon the Inquisition and we shall burn this treachery from our village!
Screw burning at the stake, I say we do out the way ole Vladdy it.
ShadowCell wrote: Zanald is so disappointed in you he's going to smash a desk for every time you people disappoint him. there will be no desks for the little schoolchildren of Vagan because Zanald will have smashed them all. i hope you people are happy.

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by His Divine Shadow » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:31 am

Antkowiak wrote:It seems that Destiny is basically the American fandom's ZZ.
That's an excellent analogy. I still can't stomach ZZ, and I'm a hardcore UC guy. Well done! :)
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"I'm American," said Shadow, "if that's what you mean." - Neil Gaiman

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Overlord Zaru » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:13 pm

I don't understand all of the hatred for ZZ. I actually kinda liked it.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:21 pm

Double Zeta would have been much better if the first ten episodes didn't take place in a slum colony and had some more fighting. Once Double Zeta showed up I thought it started to get better from there (although Ple was annoying, thank goodness Judau can make duct tape appear out of thin air :lol: ).

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:07 pm

I think American fans seem a lot more inclined towards letting stupid little things get them. Heck, there's this guy on Youtube harassing me because I have a UC-themed screen name, but I said most UC is repetitive, which he thinks makes me a hypocrite.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Amadi Akintunde » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:42 pm

AmuroNT1 wrote:Heck, there's this guy on Youtube harassing me because I have a UC-themed screen name, but I said most UC is repetitive, which he thinks makes me a hypocrite.
Which is weird because Gundam itself is a rather repetitive series, what with recycling the same story in a different format. As are most other major anime series (DBZ, Bleach, Naruto).

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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:06 pm

Overlord Zaru wrote:I don't understand all of the hatred for ZZ. I actually kinda liked it.
It didn't meet people's expectations, especially in the beginning. It's a huge change of pace for UC Gundam, especially coming straight off of Zeta, one of the darkest Gundam shows to this day (I mean, dear god, it ends with 95% of the cast dead and Axis in uncontested control of the Earth Sphere because the Titans and the AEUG have wiped each other out!). When ZZ comes along and was silly and lighthearted, people didn't like it because they were expecting more of Gundam's typical style. I rather liked ZZ myself -- I think Judau is probably the best protagonist in the UC timeline -- but a lot of people didn't because it didn't fit their idea of what Gundam should be.
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Re: Difference between Japan and Western Fans

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:21 pm

I mean, dear god, it ends with 95% of the cast dead
Strange, it felt more like 60-65% to me. I am probably the only Gundam fan that didn't find Zeta depressing.
When ZZ comes along and was silly and lighthearted, people didn't like it because they were expecting more of Gundam's typical style.
I'd also like to point out for the first 13 some episodes the writing felt more or less sloppy and the pacing was, well, bleh. I personally thought episodes 14 and 15 were good, but I can see why some people would hate them (case in point they are the only Gundam related anythings to receive 0s). I guess serious sci-fi fans have no love fore Aztec Space Ninjas.
I think Judau is probably the best protagonist in the UC timeline
I give you a high five for that statement right there.

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