Gundam 00 Question

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Arbiter GUNDAM
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Gundam 00 Question

Okay, I'm going through Gundam 00 again and I'm on episode 15. The question I have is this: It seemed to me that Celestial Being knew that the combined forces of the powers would be there to oppose them. They seem to have plans on how to at least extricate themselves from this situation but the three armies somehow seem to frustrate all those plans, leaving it up to the Trinity Throne Gundams to save the day. What's the deal here?
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

Care to be more specific? Like, say...

Why did they go in, anyway? Why did their escape plans get frustrated? Why didn't they have more escape plans?

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Re: Gundam 00 Question

I suppose it's all three of those at once.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

They went in knowing it was a trap.

While plans were made to allow the Meisters to escape, the power blocks had them outgunned and outmaneuvered. There is only so much super-powered, Pixie dust-spewing Gundams and the boozehound's tactical forecasting can do in the face of overwhelming material might. This was a possibility they had considered, but Celestial Being's doctrine demanded that they put in an appearance. It was essentially a test of their resolve.

Celestial Being swore to intervene in all armed conflicts or war-like actions. Such a massive military build up could not be allowed under Celestial Being's scrutiny. Turning a blind eye to it would be the same as admitting they don't have the power or the drive to eradicate war. It was either risk the Gundams or lose face.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

That does make sense. But I do have to wonder what would have happened if the Thrones had not shown up and the Gundams were all captured.

If I remember correctly, the Thrones were being manipulated by Alejandro Corner the whole time.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

Imperial wrote:Celestial Being swore to intervene in all armed conflicts or war-like actions. Such a massive military build up could not be allowed under Celestial Being's scrutiny. Turning a blind eye to it would be the same as admitting they don't have the power or the drive to eradicate war. It was either risk the Gundams or lose face.
Actually CB went in to neutralize the terrorists gunning for the uranium enrichment facility. Once the terrorists are eliminated they try and make a run for it but the big three quickly put a stop to that. The whole needing to save face I think actually has to do with them needing to walk right into the middle of the military exercise to stop the terrorists which the HRL allowed to get within close proximity of the facility. As far as I can tell CB had no intention to interfere with the exercise itself.

And I suspect that their was probably a self destruct option the Meisters or Veda could have used in the event that the gundams where captured and unable to be retrieved.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:That does make sense. But I do have to wonder what would have happened if the Thrones had not shown up and the Gundams were all captured.

If I remember correctly, the Thrones were being manipulated by Alejandro Corner the whole time.
As per Veda and Sumeragi's forecast, the Meisters were all supposed to die. The intervention of the Thrones was an outside factor that no one had planned for. That's why she says that she's happy for once to be wrong.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

But I can't see what that would have accomplished. Would CB have just gone back into hiding until they had some more Gundams to continue The Plan?
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:But I can't see what that would have accomplished. Would CB have just gone back into hiding until they had some more Gundams to continue The Plan?
not if they lost the GN drives they couldn't continue the plan

the point behind the whole situation was the 3 power blocs calling their bluff, it was a no win situation for celestial being, it also highlights the fanaticism that surrounds the group


one situation which we could compare it to is the alleged warning julius caesar recieved about his asassination, now he could've avoided going to the senate on the day the assassination was to take place but he didn't for two possible reasons 1 is the roman concept of dignitas, where public figures reach a point where their public status is considered more important than their life, had he avoided the asassination his dignitas would've suffered and he would've been branded a coward

the second, is he figured that if he stayed home the asassins would've come for him there when it became apparent that he was a no show at the senate

both instances can be applied to celestial being in the situation for episode 14, yes they could've not shown up, but their creed would've suffered and the 3 blocs would've tried to hunt them down afterwards anyway so they decided ot meet it head on, treating it as a matter of pride.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

Maybe I'm over thinking it. It just seems that with as many contingencies that CB has, as many deus ex machinas, plus the fact that they knew that it was a trap, they didn't have an ace of their own to pull out of the hole. Shouldn't Sumeragi have predicted a 'Power Overwhelming' approach by the enemy.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

as Chris mentioned earlier, she DID predict the power overwhelming tactic, it was only the thrones surprise attack that broke the momentum of the three power blocs which by that point had actually captured the gundams and were in the process on consolidating on said victory
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:But I can't see what that would have accomplished. Would CB have just gone back into hiding until they had some more Gundams to continue The Plan?
It would have united the world, because the three world powers worked together to destroy the Gundams. The same thing happened later anyway once the GN-Xs showed up, so the Throne intervention was basically delaying the inevitable (and saving the lives of the Meisters).
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

It's been a while since I've seen the first season of 00, but from what I recall the Gundams were basically planning to ignore the combined superpowers' military exercises precisely because they knew it was a fight they weren't guaranteed to win. What they did is attack an apparent terrorist organization attempting to steal nuclear materials from under the superpowers' noses. Instead it turned out to be a trap set up BY the superpowers, which is how they got in trouble.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Okay, I'm going through Gundam 00 again and I'm on episode 15. The question I have is this: It seemed to me that Celestial Being knew that the combined forces of the powers would be there to oppose them. They seem to have plans on how to at least extricate themselves from this situation but the three armies somehow seem to frustrate all those plans, leaving it up to the Trinity Throne Gundams to save the day. What's the deal here?
The blocs set up a trap. Buried under the desert is a uranium enrichment facility, essentially all of the world's nuclear fuel is buried there ever since the world renounced nuclear [also part of Aeolia's Plan and the Veda plus the Plan had a large role in this and even the creation of the blocs]. What the blocs did is that the leak the information of the facility onto real terrorist who decided to storm the place to get the uranium fuel. The blocs knew CB and their philosophy would ensure that they intervene such a potential danger.

CB knew of the blocs plans, Sumeragi was given data of the entire Plan by Billy [who does not know that Sumeragi is with CB at the time]. CB's Plan is to go in, stop the terrorists and get the hell out as fast as possible [this was why Dynames was mounted on Fighter Kyrios. Fly in, bang bang, fly out] but were not able too. If Dynames and Kyrios manage to escape then Exia and Virtue would not even need to appear, [they were placed there beforehand in hiding] and the blocs would never even know they were there since it would have been impossible to detect them if they did nothing; being a large desert and all.

But they needed to appear in order to help Kyrios and Dynames [who are detected] escape should their best scenario failed [and it did when Kyrios and Dynames got forced to the ground]. This part of the Plan was labeled B2 I believe where Exia and Virtue tried to secure and escape path for Dynames and Kyrios. But they got in trouble as well.

The rest of the plan was just endurance, survival and escape...........somehow. In essence its a test of their resolve but it was something they wanted to avoid if possible since all they wanted to do was just get the terrorists and then get out.
MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:Maybe I'm over thinking it. It just seems that with as many contingencies that CB has, as many deus ex machinas, plus the fact that they knew that it was a trap, they didn't have an ace of their own to pull out of the hole. Shouldn't Sumeragi have predicted a 'Power Overwhelming' approach by the enemy.
She did predicted it, hell she got the "source" data plan for it in a thumbdrive. But then again, the best scenario was to leave early. Its like every other mission and Plan they've go through, there is always a chance of failure. Celestial Being is not exactly perfect, the Observers have commented that the current members were quite incompetent actually in the next episode and Sumeragi was one of the criticisms and its not the first time she sort of screwed up.

Celestial Being did "sort of" have ace in the hole though in the form of Fon Spark; their fifth Meisters with the fifth GN Drive. Its been a long time since I've read the chapter but he was also there I believe. Not sure how effective he would have been against the overwhelming odds but its better than nobody I guess.

I can't remember clearly what happened because its so long but I believe the Thrones came to assistance before he did. Than again, Fon is a very unpredictable factor so I wonder whether he would have helped them at all regardless.
MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:That does make sense. But I do have to wonder what would have happened if the Thrones had not shown up and the Gundams were all captured.

If I remember correctly, the Thrones were being manipulated by Alejandro Corner the whole time.
If the Gundams were captured then they would have been in a lot of trouble. Essentially Celestial Being screwed up badly by being captured. Like failing a normal mission would be bad and how all their missions had a chance of failure. If they got captured, they still have one Drive but one wonders how good that would do them. Perhaps self destructing and relying one that one Drive would have not been so bad. And then bide time to build new ones. Regardless it would have been a very bad scenario indeed, perhaps even Game Over.

While part of the Original Plan is to have them being destroyed to unite the world, this was not necessarily the exact time it was meant to happen.

Celestial Being was actually suppose to be quite hated, and it was this hate would be a big factor in uniting the world. However a problem with the current Celestial Being is that they were too soft [an example would be Setsuna's Azadistan Exia the Guardian show], something that the Observers pointed out. As a result they tend to split opinion rather unifying the world in hate. The government blocs would still have to cooperate though since CB is a nuisance to them militarily and to their sovereignty.

In the end the Thrones actually did what main Celestial Being was actually suppose to do. The real Celestial Being that was chosen wanted to be guardians of peace, but their real role was meant to be terrorizers of the world due to their immense power and unite the world because of this. The Throne's interventions were so brutal and unmerciful that they did unite the world, like they were a dangerous alien phenomenon and any public support for CB that they once had vanished when the Thrones did their interventions. [Neil commented on this]

It is unknown how exactly Celestial Being was suppose to die, but what Ribbons did in regards to cutting the backup may not be far out of the original Plan. Especially since the Innovade faction was in charge of the next phase according to the original Plan, Ribbons just rebelled too far and wanted to do things a lot different[not to mention he took the Innovade faction for himself, hacked Veda and killed the Observers] although his ultimate goal remains the same; as far as Veda can decipher [the main difference in ultimate objective between the Original and Ribbons Plans is the human factor, which Veda cannot analyse and understand].
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

SonicSP wrote:CB knew of the blocs plans, Sumeragi was given data of the entire Plan by Billy [who does not know that Sumeragi is with CB at the time].
ah, yes, I forgot about that.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

SonicSP wrote:Celestial Being did "sort of" have ace in the hole though in the form of Fon Spark; their fifth Meisters with the fifth GN Drive. Its been a long time since I've read the chapter but he was also there I believe. Not sure how effective he would have been against the overwhelming odds but its better than nobody I guess.
No, Celestial Being did not have Fon as an ace in the hole because he's not part of Celestial Being. No one in Celestial Being even knows that Fereshte exists, aside from Ian and Dr. Moreno. Besides, Fon was there observing in a Hellion, not a Gundam. He watched Setsuna get beaten up by Ali and wondered if he should intervene, but he received orders not to.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

That was going to be my next question: Who the &$(^& is Fon Spark? But I thank everyone who posted, I think I understand this now.

Here's a new question as I'm watching episode 25: Is Lichty some kinda cyborg? If so, where'd he come from? Who made him? How did he get into CB? I don't think he's an Innovator. Innovators seem more close to Biotics or something like that.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

No Lichty is definitely a human. As he said in his dying moments with Christina Sierra, his parents were Orbital Elevator technicians that were killed during the Solar Wars by terrorists most likely. Apparently he was with them at the time and was caught too in the crossfire resulting in him losing some body parts which were replaced with machine implants.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

MBF-06/ZGMF-X12A Arbiter wrote:That was going to be my next question: Who the &$(^& is Fon Spark? But I thank everyone who posted, I think I understand this now.

Here's a new question as I'm watching episode 25: Is Lichty some kinda cyborg? If so, where'd he come from? Who made him? How did he get into CB? I don't think he's an Innovator. Innovators seem more close to Biotics or something like that.
Lichty was just a dude with cybernetic prosthetics. Like Raiden said, he revealed his whole tragic backstory right before he met his end.


Not some cyborg sleeper agent with a sinister motive. Wasn't made by SHOCKER or any other evil organization.
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Re: Gundam 00 Question

It's probably best to know that prosthetics have gotten much better by this time and limbs and body parts look and act much more like real limbs than what they do in real life.

Fon Spark is one of the main characters in Gundam 00F side-story manga.

And what's the point of bringing Fon Spark or Fereshte into this if they didn't do anything, nor impact the TV-series' story?
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