G Gundam Thoughts

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon May 31, 2010 4:39 am

Wait, what? That's not what ShadowCell is saying at all.

Look, there are some series that have both comedy and drama. There some series that sharply delineate when they're trying to be funny and when they're trying to be serious. Take Full Metal Panic for instance: in the comedy moments, an explosion does nothing more than generate amusing, Looney Toons-style sight gag where the victim is beat up and covered in soot. But when it's serious, people die, sometimes in incredibly horrible ways, and sometimes it makes the comedy violence a little less funny.

But this is G Gundam we're talking about. The show where the primary "antagonist" is a robotic entity that can make honest-to-God zombies. The show where every robot is based on one stereotype of its creator nation or another (and most of the time, several stereotypes all at the same time). The show where the major players include a 50-year-old man who can kick skyscrapers like soccer balls and a German ninja in a tri-color mask and trenchcoat. The show where space colonies are literally chunks of land that were modified with technology until they took off and flew into space. The show where the final battle included an army of windmill robots fighting alongside an army of random-sea-creature robots, the Big Bad being destroyed by a ki fireball powered by the main couple's love for each other (that turned into a giant pissed-off King of Hearts and left a heart-shaped hole in the baddie), and the whole thing ended with the hero's robot mounting a giant robot horse and riding off into the Earthset through a giant glowing heart generated by his allies.

...And the Statue of Liberty having a beam cannon in the torch is what strains your suspension of disbelief? Seriously?
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Jaynz » Mon May 31, 2010 11:11 am

Effin' Christ, people. Do you guys consider reading comprehension optional on message boards or what?

For the fourth time now, the problem was not that they used the gag, but where and when they used it. (As only one example.) With everything else being played straight, matching the tone of the previous episodes, this gag came out of nowhere. Even that would have been fine except that everything else was STILL being played straight even after the gag.

Yes, the gag was funny, and was in G Gundam's theme, except that it was sorely misplaced in the narrative. If they had saved it for the 'every mobile suit ever' scenes a little later on, when things had gone gag-heavy already, it would have worked better.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Mon May 31, 2010 11:57 am

Jaynz, disagreeing with you is not the same thing as not understanding you.

You're insisting that the "gags" are out of place with the seriousness of the scenes they sometimes appear in. We're saying that the entire series is nothing but long strings of those "gags" (which I don't think is a good term for it anyway) one after another, and that to call them "out of place" is rather missing the point.

Here's the thing: in the world of G Gundam, building a secret weapon into the Statue of Liberty (which was part of the Manhattan Battle Zone, if I remember right) is a perfectly legitimate thing to do. This is from the same universe where international disputes are settled by national mascot giant robots fights, where the entire planet has laser-rope-things around it to signify that it's the ring for said fights, and where a secret organization consisting of five guys named after playing cards has existed for centuries for... some reason (still not real clear on that). The entire series is filled with utterly ridiculous situations that are treated completely seriously; to complain that some of them happen during otherwise-serious moments seems sort of disingenuous because all of them are treated entirely seriously within the show.

If you don't like the tone of the series, then that's fine. What's bothering people is that you seem to be saying "I liked the series, except at all the important bits the silly/serious tone bothered me". Which is sort of like saying "I like soccer, except when they score, they always have to kick the ball, when it would make a lot more sense to pick it up". You're phrasing your criticisms as a minor nitpick, when in actuality it's questioning pretty much the entire basis of the show. That's why people keep trying to correct you. Not because they think your opinion is wrong or that there's no valid criticisms of G Gundam, but because you're contradicting yourself by saying "I liked the show, silly-seriousness included, except when it's serious, because then it should stop being silly". A large part of the show is taking things that are utterly, ridiculously silly and treating them dead seriously -- and this starts in the first episode and never stops. So to complain about it at certain really serious parts is... weird.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Jaynz » Mon May 31, 2010 12:20 pm

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:Jaynz, disagreeing with you is not the same thing as not understanding you.

You're insisting that the "gags" are out of place with the seriousness of the scenes they sometimes appear in. We're saying that the entire series is nothing but long strings of those "gags" (which I don't think is a good term for it anyway) one after another, and that to call them "out of place" is rather missing the point.
In my opinion, they (the specific gags that I'm talking about) are out of place within the context of G Gundam itself. What you lot are doing is, in your fanboi worship, insisting that my opinion is factually wrong, while also mischaracterising it repeatedly in saying that all the gags are bad. I said only that some gags were sorely misplaced, hurting the overall narrative.

Now, I get that you lot are major fans of G Gundam and take it very personally when someone doesn't like a single element of something you didn't create, star in, animate, score, or had anything to do with. Because, you know, that makes perfect sense.

But, the thing is, you lot are dog-piling on a review that's mostly favorable to the series with just a couple of serious caveats. I am not going to change my opinion on this issue, so simply quit drawing the battlelines over it.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ShadowCell » Mon May 31, 2010 12:25 pm

Jaynz, kindly take your attitude and stuff it. If you aren't willing to listen to anyone else's opinion on this show, then all you really started this thread for was attention and I will lock it. A forum is for discussion, after all, and you're quite clearly saying that you refuse to discuss this topic.

Nobody is insisting that your opinion is wrong, they are insisting that your factual understanding of the show on which you are opining is factually wrong. And now you're throwing a tantrum for it. Knock it off.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Jaynz » Mon May 31, 2010 2:21 pm

ShadowCell wrote:Nobody is insisting that your opinion is wrong, they are insisting that your factual understanding of the show on which you are opining is factually wrong. And now you're throwing a tantrum for it. Knock it off.
You are attacking an opinion, and me personally over this show. What fact is in dispute here? That I felt some of the gags overall hurt the narrative because they were ill-timed within certain episodes? How is that factually wrong? And the real fact remains is that you're one of the people who have repeatedly mischaracterized what I've said, attacked me for it, and are now daring to give me commands over this.

I still feel that my review of G Gundam was fair and accurate. The fact that you seem to want to foster a permanent personal indemnity over the review,speaks volumes... but not about me. This review was not worth getting worked up over, but your constant mischaracterization of what I said, along with your desire to stir up a permanent dispute between users over it, most certainly is.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ShadowCell » Mon May 31, 2010 3:16 pm

Nobody is attacking your opinion; they are criticizing the reasons you gave for your opinion (and, y'know, people get to criticize the reasons you give for your opinions because those are not purely a matter of taste). Nobody is claiming that your opinion is factually wrong (i.e. nobody is claiming that your opinion of not liking those gags in G Gundam is wrong); they are claiming that your basis for criticizing the show is self-contradictory and contrary to, like, what happens on the screen. Nobody is attacking you personally; I am pointing out that you are calling names, putting words in people's mouths (oh, irony), and stomping your feet. You are throwing a tantrum, and evidently you are not even bothering to read any posts in this thread, because you keep saying the same things despite what anyone else says.

Now, what I am telling you to do is to chill the hell out.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ZeroBusterXX » Mon May 31, 2010 7:17 pm

There was a topic very similar to this on Gamefaqs several months ago... It boiled down to me defending G Gundam in a very similar way (The other poster's complaints weren't the same though. His was more along the lines of "It's not even a real Gundam series!")..... The topic eventually derailed into a discussion of Kamen Rider 555 and it's choice of rap music.


I'm not seeing how some of the conclusions were reached by a few folks in this topic.... (Namely Jaynz's)

How is G Gundam a "'riff'" of popular 90s anime? It's just Imagawa doing the kind of Gundam series he wanted to do. Have you seen any of his other stuff? It's pretty much what he usually gives us (Giant robots plus a lot of martial arts)

How is Devil Gundam a poor-man's EI-01? Didn't G Gundam come first? (Not Jaynz's words, but still a strange thing to say.)

The ending is too over-the-top? Dude, it's a super robot show. No such thing as excessive. Ever seen Mazinger, Getter Robo or any super robot shows? The entire point of G Gundam (And most robot shows of this genre) was to be flashy and dynamic.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by DuelGundam2099 » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:47 am

How is Devil Gundam a poor-man's EI-01? Didn't G Gundam come first?
Maybe I should have been more specific, until the end of the series Devil Gundam didn't do much aside from send out a bunch of messily Gundam Heads that pretty much any Gundam could kill and it used it's mini-nuke level chest beam only once. Basically, it could have done more, it should have had an episode earlier in the series or something.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:48 pm

I can only guess it was because of the Devil Gundam wanting to "fully" evolve before going into action for itself (as we see in the final battle against Domon). Until then, all it could do most of the time was just sit around and let itself "learn and grow", which would leave it mostly defenseless by itself. I'd also guess it can gather data and learn through what its "minions" encounter as well.
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by LightningCount » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:26 am

Just my two cents, I feel G-Gundam is one of the best Gundam TV series. I rather like the mysterious/journey-based tone early on, and found the cast of characters memorable and compelling. The series grew uneven in the middle, but pulls it together in the end.

G-Gundam has genuine heart--something not all Gundam series can manage. You really feel the pain when characters die, are betrayed, or feel love. This series really helped break the mold for action in a Gundam TV series. I think some of the battles in G-Gundam made Gundams the more dynamic, flexible, acrobatic machines we associate them with today. G-Gundam's silly/over-the-top elements are somewhat off-putting, but not as much so if you come in with the right mindset--that this is a new take on Gundam with its own rules. Moreover, often you expect reality to bend in anime--that's what often makes anime so different and exciting. And in the end, it's Akira-like Dark Gundam elements and Fatal Fury-type fist fights mix to an interesting effect with traditional Gundam politics and familial conflicts. It succeeds in being the FIRST alternate universe, paving the way for growth in storytelling and design in Gundam.
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ORegan » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:48 pm

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why the Liberty Laser is considered non-serious and a bunch of transforming windmills in space is better? If anything, a Statue of Liberty replica(remember, the real Statue of Liberty was destroyed by Domon's need for a flashy entrance) being outfitted with a laser is a serious aspect. They disguised a laser turret as an American symbol of freedom...what's the big friggin' deal?

Maybe there would've been some validity to the claim if Chibodee stood infront of the laser in his Gundam, pointed at the Devil Gundam, and yelled "FREEDOM LASER, GO!"

That actually sounds pretty funny, and I now wish that they DID do that, but that's just me :P
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ZeroBusterXX » Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:30 pm

ORegan wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't understand why the Liberty Laser is considered non-serious and a bunch of transforming windmills in space is better? If anything, a Statue of Liberty replica(remember, the real Statue of Liberty was destroyed by Domon's need for a flashy entrance) being outfitted with a laser is a serious aspect. They disguised a laser turret as an American symbol of freedom...what's the big friggin' deal?

Maybe there would've been some validity to the claim if Chibodee stood infront of the laser in his Gundam, pointed at the Devil Gundam, and yelled "FREEDOM LASER, GO!"

That actually sounds pretty funny, and I now wish that they DID do that, but that's just me :P

If Chibodee did that, all he'd need to do next is say "THIS RIFLE HAS TOO MUCH HIGH POWER MAN!"

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Genocide » Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:57 pm

ORegan wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't understand why the Liberty Laser is considered non-serious and a bunch of transforming windmills in space is better? If anything, a Statue of Liberty replica(remember, the real Statue of Liberty was destroyed by Domon's need for a flashy entrance) being outfitted with a laser is a serious aspect. They disguised a laser turret as an American symbol of freedom...what's the big friggin' deal?
I concur. Despite how goofy it sounds, in practice it really doesn't seem like that much of a "gag" to build a WMD in the Statue of Liberty.

I'm an avid fan of the series, but honestly whether or not you like it on a personal level depends on your expectations going into the series. As others have pointed out already, G Gundam is not your typical Gundam show, but as the first Alternate Universe entry in the franchise, it was supposed to be a drastic departure from the standard formula.

The show has its moments of cheesy humor and defies the laws of physics periodically, but the plot itself is just as serious as - if not more-so than - other Gundam shows. The character relationships, as Kirby mentioned, tend to be backed by more emotion and realism than what the franchise is used to, and the deaths we see are meaningful in more ways than just to fuel the protagonist's angst.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by ORegan » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:12 pm

Genocide wrote: I concur. Despite how goofy it sounds, in practice it really doesn't seem like that much of a "gag" to build a WMD in the Statue of Liberty.
I concur with your concural.* It has a great element of surprise. If there was an invading force from another Neo-country, getting attacked from the statue in plain sight would be there last thought while attempting to enter the airspace...or spacespace rather :P...of the bad replicant of Star Island from Super Mario World.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:52 pm

Yeah, the Statue of Liberty cannon makes me wonder what other worldly symbols could be used as weapons, lol.
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Wingnut » Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:04 am

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:Yeah, the Statue of Liberty cannon makes me wonder what other worldly symbols could be used as weapons, lol.
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by YazanGable » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:28 am

ZeroBusterXX wrote:How is G Gundam a "'riff'" of popular 90s anime? It's just Imagawa doing the kind of Gundam series he wanted to do. Have you seen any of his other stuff? It's pretty much what he usually gives us (Giant robots plus a lot of martial arts)
Actually, surprisingly, it isn't the series he wanted to do.
If you read the interview he did some years back (which is posted on MAHQ) he talks about the creation of G. He had initially gone in with an idea that was more, in his words, closer to Zeta Gundam.
The new studio heads from Bandai promptly tossed out his idea, gave him the Gundam fight concept, and told him this was the show he was gonna make.
His big addition here was the Devil Gundam plotline, and even then, he had to fight Bandai on several key points (mostly with regards to the stereotypes and whether certain Gundam designs were toyetic enough.)

The term in this case was less 'What Imagawa wanted to make' and more 'Imagawa taking the tools he was given and turning out some damned good work all the same'

Also, while he does often go the 'crazy over the top' mode, it's not like that's his only mode.

His version of Tetsujin-28 was, comparatively, more down to Earth...and let's face it, you'd have to be dropping some pretty powerful stuff to say Bartender is an off-the-wall, over-the-top action spectacle...same goes for Nana 7 of 7.

The man DOES have other modes.

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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by Darkerangel » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:09 am

YazanGable wrote:
ZeroBusterXX wrote:How is G Gundam a "'riff'" of popular 90s anime? It's just Imagawa doing the kind of Gundam series he wanted to do. Have you seen any of his other stuff? It's pretty much what he usually gives us (Giant robots plus a lot of martial arts)
Actually, surprisingly, it isn't the series he wanted to do.
If you read the interview he did some years back (which is posted on MAHQ) he talks about the creation of G. He had initially gone in with an idea that was more, in his words, closer to Zeta Gundam.
The new studio heads from Bandai promptly tossed out his idea, gave him the Gundam fight concept, and told him this was the show he was gonna make.
His big addition here was the Devil Gundam plotline, and even then, he had to fight Bandai on several key points (mostly with regards to the stereotypes and whether certain Gundam designs were toyetic enough.)

The term in this case was less 'What Imagawa wanted to make' and more 'Imagawa taking the tools he was given and turning out some damned good work all the same'

Also, while he does often go the 'crazy over the top' mode, it's not like that's his only mode.

His version of Tetsujin-28 was, comparatively, more down to Earth...and let's face it, you'd have to be dropping some pretty powerful stuff to say Bartender is an off-the-wall, over-the-top action spectacle...same goes for Nana 7 of 7.

The man DOES have other modes.

Why is it that Bandai or Sunrise do this sort of things? They hire someone "I got this, here's my idea." And they every time are like no, here's that you will do. I'm sure they're not the only company that did/does this, but still. Even Tomino had issues getting the stuff he actually wanted out.
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Re: G Gundam Thoughts

Post by blind_dead_mcjones » Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:48 am

Darkerangel wrote:Why is it that Bandai or Sunrise do this sort of things? They hire someone "I got this, here's my idea." And they every time are like no, here's that you will do. I'm sure they're not the only company that did/does this, but still. Even Tomino had issues getting the stuff he actually wanted out.
go to tvtropes.org and look up executive meddling, it more or less explains why companies do stuff like that
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