Introducing Gundam
Introducing Gundam
I am recently faced with some friends coming over and i found out they have never seen Gundam before. I have been at a loss at what order to show what series and in what order to show to someone who has never seen Gundam. I have some ideas but first what order would you show Gundam series in. List some reasons why( like length and story or other reasons).
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ShadowCell
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Re: Introducing Gundam
uuuuhhhhhhmmmmm
That would depend on what side of Gundam you want to introduce them to, I guess, and you know your friends better than we do. If they'd be turned off by old animation, for example, you probably shouldn't bother with UC, because the best-animated examples of UC stories would also be probably the most confusing for someone who hasn't seen Gundam before. 0083, for example, probably won't make that much sense if you aren't already familiar with the One Year War and whatnot.
Otherwise, you could start with the Mobile Suit Gundam movies. They're relatively short and compress the story into more manageable pieces, and although you miss a lot of the cool/crazy stuff from the TV series, it at least represents a decent primer for the rest of UC. The Zeta movies sort of do the same, I'm told, but I haven't seen them and either way there are some pretty major story differences between the Zeta TV series and the Zeta movies. On the other hand, the Zeta TV series is fifty episodes long and your friends may not be interested in watching a show for that long. Again, you know them better than us. After that, there's ZZ if they're really interested, but honestly you could probably go straight to Char's Counterattack without too many unanswered questions. F91 is fun too, I guess, and if you really feel like crushing their faith in humanity, there's Victory.
If they wouldn't go for UC's old animation, then there's always Gundam Wing (even though Wing is fifteen years old by now). On the other hand, Wing is 49 episodes long and like Zeta, your friends may not want to watch 49 episodes. SEED might be another good possibility, since the Special Editions compact the story into more manageable bits than fifty episodes. DESTINY, well, that's at your discretion. =P For introducing people to Gundam, though, I wouldn't really recommend 00, because--especially in the first season--it's different enough from other Gundam shows to make it a weird transition if you go from 00 to, say, Mobile Suit Gundam.
Then again, I don't really like 00, period, so take that as you will. =P
That would depend on what side of Gundam you want to introduce them to, I guess, and you know your friends better than we do. If they'd be turned off by old animation, for example, you probably shouldn't bother with UC, because the best-animated examples of UC stories would also be probably the most confusing for someone who hasn't seen Gundam before. 0083, for example, probably won't make that much sense if you aren't already familiar with the One Year War and whatnot.
Otherwise, you could start with the Mobile Suit Gundam movies. They're relatively short and compress the story into more manageable pieces, and although you miss a lot of the cool/crazy stuff from the TV series, it at least represents a decent primer for the rest of UC. The Zeta movies sort of do the same, I'm told, but I haven't seen them and either way there are some pretty major story differences between the Zeta TV series and the Zeta movies. On the other hand, the Zeta TV series is fifty episodes long and your friends may not be interested in watching a show for that long. Again, you know them better than us. After that, there's ZZ if they're really interested, but honestly you could probably go straight to Char's Counterattack without too many unanswered questions. F91 is fun too, I guess, and if you really feel like crushing their faith in humanity, there's Victory.
If they wouldn't go for UC's old animation, then there's always Gundam Wing (even though Wing is fifteen years old by now). On the other hand, Wing is 49 episodes long and like Zeta, your friends may not want to watch 49 episodes. SEED might be another good possibility, since the Special Editions compact the story into more manageable bits than fifty episodes. DESTINY, well, that's at your discretion. =P For introducing people to Gundam, though, I wouldn't really recommend 00, because--especially in the first season--it's different enough from other Gundam shows to make it a weird transition if you go from 00 to, say, Mobile Suit Gundam.
Then again, I don't really like 00, period, so take that as you will. =P
Re: Introducing Gundam
ShadowCell pretty much hit the good points but I'll just add a bit more. If you're not sure how your friends will react to older animation, you can go for the Zeta movies and gauge their reaction to the original material vs. the newly animated bits.
Aside from that, the story differences between it and the TV show are really only a huge issue if you intend to also show ZZ at some point; otherwise you can watch either and skip ahead to CCA without much issue. The only thing ZZ is really essential for in a long-term continuity sense is explaining where Marida comes from in Unicorn. The other major ZZ continuity issue (Mineva) is explicitly dealt with in the movie ending or can be inferred from the TV ending. Not to say ZZ isn't worth watching at all (aside from the first fifteen or so episodes perhaps...) but it's not absolutely essentialy in the same way that having some knowledge of the OYW (and possibly the early parts of Zeta for maximum impact) is before watching Stardust Memory.
If you're thinking of starting with an AU show, I'd definitely not start with anything aside from Wing or SEED. While I love them all, G, X and Turn A are all atypical in some way or another and aren't great introduction material. Destiny also, since it assumes knowledge of SEED (and is pretty divisive) and 00 for reasons already mentioned.
Aside from that, the story differences between it and the TV show are really only a huge issue if you intend to also show ZZ at some point; otherwise you can watch either and skip ahead to CCA without much issue. The only thing ZZ is really essential for in a long-term continuity sense is explaining where Marida comes from in Unicorn. The other major ZZ continuity issue (Mineva) is explicitly dealt with in the movie ending or can be inferred from the TV ending. Not to say ZZ isn't worth watching at all (aside from the first fifteen or so episodes perhaps...) but it's not absolutely essentialy in the same way that having some knowledge of the OYW (and possibly the early parts of Zeta for maximum impact) is before watching Stardust Memory.
If you're thinking of starting with an AU show, I'd definitely not start with anything aside from Wing or SEED. While I love them all, G, X and Turn A are all atypical in some way or another and aren't great introduction material. Destiny also, since it assumes knowledge of SEED (and is pretty divisive) and 00 for reasons already mentioned.
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LightningCount
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Re: Introducing Gundam
Some similar thoughts, and two different ones...
By and large, I think Wing is the best bet. It jumps right into the action and leaves the viewer with cliffhanger questions that always make you want to stick around episode-to-episode.
Be cautious with SEED...A lot of its "action" animation is stilted for the first half of the series, and the patience-requiring melodrama might be too high.
OK, now for my different idea: 0080 War in the Pocket. Yes, it is related to 0079, but it mostly stands alone. It is short and tightly written, with the right mix of action and tense drama (and a powerful ending to boot). Al's perspective might bother some initially, but with the opening Cyclops Team action sequence (one of the best in all of Gundam), there will be no doubt that this is serious business.
Also, Gundam 08th MS Team is a good bet. It's animation is still top notch today and it has a lot of fun scenarios. Only problem is that the Aina/Shiro love story can be overly sappy at times (especially in episode 1, if I recall right).
So, to recap, if I were showing someone Gundam for the first time, on a scale of themes, it would be between:
Gundam Wing (most action and story)
Gundam 0080 (most drama with enough action)
Gundam 08th MS TEAM (a middle ground balance of action and drama)
And if you go the UC route, you just have to explain that it's Zeon vs. Federation like WWII's Axis vs. Allies. No need to worry about Amuro, Char, or Newtypes, really.
By and large, I think Wing is the best bet. It jumps right into the action and leaves the viewer with cliffhanger questions that always make you want to stick around episode-to-episode.
Be cautious with SEED...A lot of its "action" animation is stilted for the first half of the series, and the patience-requiring melodrama might be too high.
OK, now for my different idea: 0080 War in the Pocket. Yes, it is related to 0079, but it mostly stands alone. It is short and tightly written, with the right mix of action and tense drama (and a powerful ending to boot). Al's perspective might bother some initially, but with the opening Cyclops Team action sequence (one of the best in all of Gundam), there will be no doubt that this is serious business.
Also, Gundam 08th MS Team is a good bet. It's animation is still top notch today and it has a lot of fun scenarios. Only problem is that the Aina/Shiro love story can be overly sappy at times (especially in episode 1, if I recall right).
So, to recap, if I were showing someone Gundam for the first time, on a scale of themes, it would be between:
Gundam Wing (most action and story)
Gundam 0080 (most drama with enough action)
Gundam 08th MS TEAM (a middle ground balance of action and drama)
And if you go the UC route, you just have to explain that it's Zeon vs. Federation like WWII's Axis vs. Allies. No need to worry about Amuro, Char, or Newtypes, really.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
Like everyone else said, the biggest issue would how they would react to the animation. I'd almost say that if they are really bothered with older animation present, don't even try, but that's not what your asking. 
For starters, I wouldn't try and start with a full length TV series. Unless you can loan them the DVDs or something (If you're old like me, you may have some of this stuff still on VHS!
), it's best to go with stuff that is short and can be watched in as few sittings as possible, like the various movies or OVAs, which can be viewed much faster than a full length TV series.
If they have no issues with seeing something older, the original Mobile Suit Gundam movies are your best choice. Everything you need to know to lead to the sequels or fully set up the side stories is there (Most of them refer to the movies anyway), should they be seriously interested in going further into the Universal Century timeline. Time wise, they are about as reasonable as you'll get (Each movie is only about two hours long), and the improved animation in the movies, particularly the third one, blends in with the old stuff very well and still looks pretty good, IMO.
While I haven't seen the Zeta movies, as has been mentioned, their changes to the story are major and well known, but IIRC, that is mainly in the second two movies. From what I understand, the first movie doesn't change too many important things, so it may be a decent starting point, and if your friends like it, you could go to the series or other works. But personally, I don't like the idea of starting with the second work, simply because you'll likely have to explain a bit about some of the characters (Char and Amuro, probably Bright), as well as give a quick UC history lesson.
If, however, the animation quality is an issue, I'd slightly echo Lightning Count and suggest either 0080 or 08th MS Team as a starting point. Like with the Zeta movies, you'd have to give a bit of background information on both, but not as much (Basically, just which side has the Zakus and which has the GMs) before starting either series. Both still look very good, IMO, although in 0080's case the music is a bit dated (If that matters, which I'm not sure why it should
). If I had to lean toward one, I'd go in the direction of 0080, because it is much shorter (Only three hours for the whole series), and you don't need to understand a great deal about the One Year War timeline to follow it (I didn't when I first saw it). With 08th, it helps to have a better understanding of outside events, but the show has some great animation, and the battles are very well done, which makes it very good at drawing people in (There is a reason why 08th was probably the most popular UC show in America).
I wouldn't try and go with any of the other UC works. 0083, ZZ, and CCA require a viewing of at least the MSG movies and a read of a timeline to understand, while F91 and Victory are best left to people who already enjoy Gundam. Some of the AU works might be better (Wing in particular), but as I mentioned earlier, starting off with a full length series can be harder, while some (Turn A, G, X, 00) are different in their own ways, so going from them to other Gundam shows may be tricky. SEED may work, but given that opinion on it so divided, I'd leave that up to whether you liked the series, and as SC mentioned, if you think your friends will enjoy it. I've never seen the Special Editions, which as ShadowCell said should be more managable, but I've heard their edits and cuts are a bit rough on the story. Perhaps someone who has them/has seen them can better explain that, but again, going with SEED is something you'd have to decide to do.
So, to shamelessly steal LightningCount's idea of a quick recap:
If Animation isn't an issue: The MSG Movie Trilogy
If Animation is an issue: 0080, with 08th MS Team being a somewhat close second.
For starters, I wouldn't try and start with a full length TV series. Unless you can loan them the DVDs or something (If you're old like me, you may have some of this stuff still on VHS!
), it's best to go with stuff that is short and can be watched in as few sittings as possible, like the various movies or OVAs, which can be viewed much faster than a full length TV series.If they have no issues with seeing something older, the original Mobile Suit Gundam movies are your best choice. Everything you need to know to lead to the sequels or fully set up the side stories is there (Most of them refer to the movies anyway), should they be seriously interested in going further into the Universal Century timeline. Time wise, they are about as reasonable as you'll get (Each movie is only about two hours long), and the improved animation in the movies, particularly the third one, blends in with the old stuff very well and still looks pretty good, IMO.
While I haven't seen the Zeta movies, as has been mentioned, their changes to the story are major and well known, but IIRC, that is mainly in the second two movies. From what I understand, the first movie doesn't change too many important things, so it may be a decent starting point, and if your friends like it, you could go to the series or other works. But personally, I don't like the idea of starting with the second work, simply because you'll likely have to explain a bit about some of the characters (Char and Amuro, probably Bright), as well as give a quick UC history lesson.
If, however, the animation quality is an issue, I'd slightly echo Lightning Count and suggest either 0080 or 08th MS Team as a starting point. Like with the Zeta movies, you'd have to give a bit of background information on both, but not as much (Basically, just which side has the Zakus and which has the GMs) before starting either series. Both still look very good, IMO, although in 0080's case the music is a bit dated (If that matters, which I'm not sure why it should
). If I had to lean toward one, I'd go in the direction of 0080, because it is much shorter (Only three hours for the whole series), and you don't need to understand a great deal about the One Year War timeline to follow it (I didn't when I first saw it). With 08th, it helps to have a better understanding of outside events, but the show has some great animation, and the battles are very well done, which makes it very good at drawing people in (There is a reason why 08th was probably the most popular UC show in America).I wouldn't try and go with any of the other UC works. 0083, ZZ, and CCA require a viewing of at least the MSG movies and a read of a timeline to understand, while F91 and Victory are best left to people who already enjoy Gundam. Some of the AU works might be better (Wing in particular), but as I mentioned earlier, starting off with a full length series can be harder, while some (Turn A, G, X, 00) are different in their own ways, so going from them to other Gundam shows may be tricky. SEED may work, but given that opinion on it so divided, I'd leave that up to whether you liked the series, and as SC mentioned, if you think your friends will enjoy it. I've never seen the Special Editions, which as ShadowCell said should be more managable, but I've heard their edits and cuts are a bit rough on the story. Perhaps someone who has them/has seen them can better explain that, but again, going with SEED is something you'd have to decide to do.
So, to shamelessly steal LightningCount's idea of a quick recap:
If Animation isn't an issue: The MSG Movie Trilogy
If Animation is an issue: 0080, with 08th MS Team being a somewhat close second.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
With most people my age animation is an issue. I tried msg movies with no success. This time i tried the 8th ms team approach because it is short and i am going to use it so they understand unicorn. Although 8th ms team is not the best one of the shows i think someone coming to Gundam should understand UC before getting into the other stuff. But it is hard to draw the line. I mean have you ever tried to expain the fact that most all of these shows have nothing to do with each other. It is hard and there lies the question to which one to start out with. It is a tuff choice.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
I'm not sure if your friends are Anime fans or not but honestly, if your friends are into Anime, and not willing to give the Gundam, an absolute classic, and one of the principal pillars of the genre a chance, its not worth trying to convince them to watch it.
I suggested watching first of the 0079 compilation movies to a few friends and family members and encountered the same resistance and I just couldn't fathom it. The thing that bugged me was the people I suggested the show to were people who were passionate Anime, and Sci-Fi fans and just because it featured older animation they were completely unwilling to watch it.
I've found that people unwilling to watch the classics in all genre's of film (anime or not) are a very resistant demographic, and all attempts at trying to convince them simply make that resistance all the more recalcitrant. I found that just keeping gems like Gundam to yourself will allure people to it all that much more, it'll save you a lot of frustration and in time they'll be asking you to watch it, as opposed to you asking them.
I suggested watching first of the 0079 compilation movies to a few friends and family members and encountered the same resistance and I just couldn't fathom it. The thing that bugged me was the people I suggested the show to were people who were passionate Anime, and Sci-Fi fans and just because it featured older animation they were completely unwilling to watch it.
I've found that people unwilling to watch the classics in all genre's of film (anime or not) are a very resistant demographic, and all attempts at trying to convince them simply make that resistance all the more recalcitrant. I found that just keeping gems like Gundam to yourself will allure people to it all that much more, it'll save you a lot of frustration and in time they'll be asking you to watch it, as opposed to you asking them.
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ShadowCell
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Re: Introducing Gundam
why should it be so crazy that people are turned off by MSG's animation style and age? for people who are used to newer, much smoother, and more consistent animation, it's a very jarring and distracting transition.
besides which, uh, you don't have to be a mecha anime fan to be an anime fan.
Nate, I'm not really sure why you're using 08th MS Team to introduce your friends to Unicorn? I mean, I would think if anything is going to prime them for Unicorn it would be Char's Counterattack.
besides which, uh, you don't have to be a mecha anime fan to be an anime fan.
Nate, I'm not really sure why you're using 08th MS Team to introduce your friends to Unicorn? I mean, I would think if anything is going to prime them for Unicorn it would be Char's Counterattack.
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Seraphic
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Re: Introducing Gundam
Why not just start with Counterattack? It's a great movie, and it's somewhat self-contained since there is a small segment that recounts Amuro's battle with Char and Lalah. I think all you'd need to explain beforehand is the concept of newtypes and cyber-newtypes to your friends.
Otherwise, try Endless Waltz. Your friends will likely be impressed by the mechanical design and themes of the movie. It's only the tip of the iceberg for GW and its greatness though. Plus, the animation is really amazing.
Otherwise, try Endless Waltz. Your friends will likely be impressed by the mechanical design and themes of the movie. It's only the tip of the iceberg for GW and its greatness though. Plus, the animation is really amazing.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
If your friends don't like the older style anime probably either seed or 00 would be your best bet your friends might not like mecha anime at all like anything entertainment related is a largely a matter of personal taste. I remember back when I was starting to get into anime this was winter 99 spring 2000 the other guys in my dorm thought I wasn't a real anime fan because I liked mecha and cyber punk anime as oppose to things like DBZ.
Re: Introducing Gundam
Honestly I don't know how much of a problem it is to make sure that your friends have the proper context. Some series are going to work better than others in this regard, but most of them are at least watchable coming in fresh. For instance Gundam F91, 08th MS Team and even Zeta Gundam have a lot of background to what is going on in the series, but it really isn't necessary to watch it (you'll miss out on historical context and some information about supporting characters, but that doesn't ruin the show on its own.) If you try to give a huge primer for the series before hand you'll just turn people off because no one wants to get into a series that they have to work to like.
My other piece of advice is that if things don't go over well after the second series or so, I'd just cool off on it for a while. If their your friends you should have other common interests so it isn't necessary for all of you to like Gundam. It may be that Gundam series are not enjoyable to them for one reason or another and trying to force the issue will just be annoying, especially since it will seem that you are mad at them for not enjoying a series properly or something like that.
My other piece of advice is that if things don't go over well after the second series or so, I'd just cool off on it for a while. If their your friends you should have other common interests so it isn't necessary for all of you to like Gundam. It may be that Gundam series are not enjoyable to them for one reason or another and trying to force the issue will just be annoying, especially since it will seem that you are mad at them for not enjoying a series properly or something like that.
Re: Introducing Gundam
I've not had much luck persuading friends to enjoy Gundam, but I've had the same problem introducing friends to nearly all anime. It really depends upon the tastes and priorities of your friends. If your friends are into sci-fi, war dramas and like action, you could try nearly any Gundam show, though I'd start them off with the movies and OVAs before trying patience with most TV series. If your friends are into drama, character and story, the options narrow a bit. Do they like anime at all? Any animation? What are the contemporary tastes of your friends? Are your friends fed on a diet of nothing but mainstream movies and TV or do they like more daring, dark and provocative stories as well? Does their entertainment have to be aimed right at them or do they have some more diverse and eclectic tastes?
Without knowing more, I'd just as soon recommend Gundam 00. It's new, it's tight and very well animated. It has all the trademarks of Gundam and would be a better place to start than a lot of others. I found it incredibly entertaining and fun. It's also in seasons, so first season isn't too terribly long.
If you think they can handle it and think the tone suits their tastes, I'd also recommend Gundam 0080 as an almost ideal starter. IMO, the animation holds up well, it has the most compelling dramatic story of any Gundam and it's a short, self-contained series that is easy to follow. It provides enough background on Gundam and does so without dragging down the story with lengthy exposition.
I think perhaps MSG 08th MS Team and Gundam 0083 might be good choices too, given their short run time and better than average animation.
Without knowing more, I'd just as soon recommend Gundam 00. It's new, it's tight and very well animated. It has all the trademarks of Gundam and would be a better place to start than a lot of others. I found it incredibly entertaining and fun. It's also in seasons, so first season isn't too terribly long.
If you think they can handle it and think the tone suits their tastes, I'd also recommend Gundam 0080 as an almost ideal starter. IMO, the animation holds up well, it has the most compelling dramatic story of any Gundam and it's a short, self-contained series that is easy to follow. It provides enough background on Gundam and does so without dragging down the story with lengthy exposition.
I think perhaps MSG 08th MS Team and Gundam 0083 might be good choices too, given their short run time and better than average animation.
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Red Comet90
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Re: Introducing Gundam
To be honest I'd start your friends off with Gundam 00. My reasoning behind that being that the animation in 00 is the best looking and it has a pretty self contained story. I would recommend Unicorn since you want them to get a background in UC, but its sort of confusing if you don't know what Zeon or Neo Zeon is at all.
Gundam 00 takes a lot of the concepts from UC and adds its own twist to it while keeping it interesting. I'd go with that and if they really like it slowly ease them into maybe SEED (not destiny) or the UC ova's.
Gundam 00 takes a lot of the concepts from UC and adds its own twist to it while keeping it interesting. I'd go with that and if they really like it slowly ease them into maybe SEED (not destiny) or the UC ova's.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
i'd make them go through the link I provided
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Symbolhime
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Re: Introducing Gundam
Throwing in support for 00.
It's fast-paced, well-animated, avoids quite a few cliches, and is nicely self-contained.
It's fast-paced, well-animated, avoids quite a few cliches, and is nicely self-contained.
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Re: Introducing Gundam
the fundamental issue with recommending 00 is that because it's new and shiny, people who give a crap about fancy animation will become rather disillusioned even when presented with say, Zeta.
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Mu La Flaga
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Re: Introducing Gundam
If animation is an issue.
I would suggest SEED and SEED Destiny, as well as 00.
Also maybe test the waters and see how old animation they can tolerate.
Because it's going to be a factor if they want to learn the backstories of some of these stories set in UC and all that.
For UC stuff I would suggest 08th MS Team, 0083(it's alright series to understand even if you don't know the full backstory of the Zeta and Mobile Suit Gundam).
Also alternatively there is Gundam Wing which worked pretty well and got alot of people in to Gundam.
I would maybe also suggest X, but that requires understanding newtypes a little, but then again it is a self contained reality in the After War reality and all that.
I would suggest SEED and SEED Destiny, as well as 00.
Also maybe test the waters and see how old animation they can tolerate.
Because it's going to be a factor if they want to learn the backstories of some of these stories set in UC and all that.
For UC stuff I would suggest 08th MS Team, 0083(it's alright series to understand even if you don't know the full backstory of the Zeta and Mobile Suit Gundam).
Also alternatively there is Gundam Wing which worked pretty well and got alot of people in to Gundam.
I would maybe also suggest X, but that requires understanding newtypes a little, but then again it is a self contained reality in the After War reality and all that.
Re: Introducing Gundam
I know many of us would like to believe classic anime will be widely appreciated forever, but the truth is even the greatest classics will be marginalized over time. Tastes change, storytelling techniques evolve, the market grows as does the audience, more money is involved, technology improves, priorities shift, etc. To use the analogy, there simply isn't a broad audience for Citizen Kane, no matter how many times it's touted the greatest film. It isn't realistic to expect/demand modern audiences, especially child-to-young-adult audiences, to enjoy old animation.Bonesy! wrote:the fundamental issue with recommending 00 is that because it's new and shiny, people who give a crap about fancy animation will become rather disillusioned even when presented with say, Zeta.
It isn't that important for modern audiences to enjoy MSG or Zeta. Whats important is that they appreciate some Gundam, even if it's the newer Gundam productions. Gundam 00 can mean as much to potential Gundam fans as Zeta did to us. That's all that matters. I believe that Gundam 00 is a good heir to classic Gundam and even if it will never mean as much to me as say "Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket" (my all time favorite) Gundam 00 has the potential to mean as much to a new fan. Which is why I recommend it.
Re: Introducing Gundam
They're fictious shows lighten up bit it's not like it's the end of the world if his friends endup not liking Gundam or anime in general. In fact if he doesn't push too hard he has a much better chance of getting an honest response of what they thought of the show and maybe can find some anime they do like.Bonesy! wrote:the fundamental issue with recommending 00 is that because it's new and shiny, people who give a crap about fancy animation will become rather disillusioned even when presented with say, Zeta.