The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk VII: The Final

[pd771]

Another possibility is that Aeolia initially developed the GN Drive as a possible replacement power source to take the place of fossil fuels, and that after he somehow realized the evolutionary effects of true/pure GN Particles on the human body he devised The Plan, created Veda and hid the technology until said Plan was ready for implementation.

But yeah, we could just be reading waaay too much into it.

I think that is the most likely answer. He theorized GN technology, saw the potential of what it could do and create (an Innovator), and then created the plan. I doubt the GN Drives was created before the Plan was made, but the theory of them was created first, IMO.

[T.V.]

I think that is the most likely answer. He theorized GN technology, saw the potential of what it could do and create (an Innovator), and then created the plan. I doubt the GN Drives was created before the Plan was made, but the theory of them was created first, IMO.

I'm pretty much having the same train of thought.

Remember that Aeolia was a pioneer of the solar power network, and that the GN drive is essentially an extension of the science behind it, but taken further into harnassing the decay of baryonic matter.
I reckon he was the first to theorize the existence of the GN particle and its properties. He then created The Plan when he realized he'd found (a) Pandora's Box, deciding to keep a tight lid on it, only giving the newly formed Celestial Being the key.

[Kavik Ryx]

Episode 24 proved the power of GN particles on the small scale, right? And wasn't it stated or implied that the current peace is bound to be temporary? So it seems that the plan is either incomplete or is currently sidetracked. Would it be safe to assume that CB will try to remake the Twin Drive based on what they learned from Veda?

[Red Comet90]

Episode 24 proved the power of GN particles on the small scale, right? And wasn't it stated or implied that the current peace is bound to be temporary? So it seems that the plan is either incomplete or is currently sidetracked. Would it be safe to assume that CB will try to remake the Twin Drive based on what they learned from Veda?

I would assume they would try to recreate the Twin Drive System since it is what allows human to become Innovators and allows them to understand one another. About the peace being temporary they alluded to that in one of the episodes that some humans might not get to that point of understanding and humanity is far from completely innovating so of course there are bound to be wars.

As for Aeolia, doesn't it strike anyone to be a bit far fetched that one man could orchestrate something so perfectly and create so many safety nets from which it could bounce off from 200 years before the fact? His plan and how its carried is way too perfect in its execution. Its almost as if he knew from the get go that there were aliens which we were bound to confront at one point or another. It clearly hasn't been stated that anyone has solid evidence of their being other lie forms except for Ribbons and Tieria so how could Veda know this if only humans built it? It seems like someone in the ranks of CB might be far from human or Aeolia may have made contact with them somehow.

[ShadowCell]

Aeolia's plan is actually pretty vague, from what the show has revealed. Perhaps the movie will reveal more, but it's my impression that Aeolia fleshed out the general framework of "The Plan" and Veda filled in the gaps and handled things in real time.

[Thundermuffin]

Totally unrelated to the current discussion but...

At work today, I started idly humming a tune while sorting some things...hummed for about two minutes before, to my horror, I realized I was humming MARINA'S SONG!

Holy crap...

[ShadowCell]

The code of bushido demands that you restore your honor.

[Thundermuffin]

You are, of course, correct.

HURGHK!

[Wingnut]

Ah, crap. Now there will be no more of his excellent parody stories. Is there any way we can file a wrongful death suit against Marina even if he committed suicide?

And I personally don't think we'll ever know exactly what Aeolia's original plan was unless it comes from Aeolia's own mouth via a recording he made. Ribbons might have been working with a similar ultimate goal in mind, but the path to said goal was likely radically different than what Aeolia had planned. I'm sure that the old man didn't have a test-tube baby with a god complex ruling the world in his notes for a united humanity.

[Red Comet90]

Ah, crap. Now there will be no more of his excellent parody stories. Is there any way we can file a wrongful death suit against Marina even if he committed suicide?

And I personally don't think we'll ever know exactly what Aeolia's original plan was unless it comes from Aeolia's own mouth via a recording he made. Ribbons might have been working with a similar ultimate goal in mind, but the path to said goal was likely radically different than what Aeolia had planned. I'm sure that the old man didn't have a test-tube baby with a god complex ruling the world in his notes for a united humanity.

I agree, but at the same time I have to wonder why are there 3 phases for Aeolia's plans and they specifically include the use of the A-laws. Of course this is if we take that Regene was actually telling Tieria the truth and not some concoction thought up by Ribbons.

Going back to Marina's song, I actually liked the song from the first time I heard it. It goes well with the show and adding it in during the final moments of the battle in episode 25 was pure genius.

[Kavik Ryx]

Actually, as annoying as the song was at first, it has grown on me a bit. It kind of gives me of Galaxy Express 999 opening vibes.

[MrMarch]

Watched the final episode last night and was less than thrilled. But I kinda expected it because I've been disappointed for most of this second season.
Gundam 00 2nd Season started out strong, but easily ran out of steam a third of the way into it. There were some strong later episodes here and there, but the whole second season was a mess as far as plotting and pace. Characters would simply disappear for long periods of the season (uh, where did Graham go?) and the whole subplot with Louise and Saji was just a waste of time. Anew and Lyle's relationship was also extremely forced, lacking any time to develop the emotional turmoil coming from Lyle that we were expected to swallow. The battles also weren't nearly as interesting this time around. Because there was a constant need to outdo the previous battles, every aspect of the battles just got raised to a ridiculously silly level. This made for a lot of dull and uninspired fighting. I also didn't like all the false deaths at the end; it really sabotaged the drama. I got a bad vibe early in the series when they basically resurrected Neil with a different name just to have the four meister stars of the show again and it just got worse at the end.

For me, Gundam 00 is 1st Season; it was a nearly flawless Gundam story from beginning to end. Plenty of interesting fights, some genuine humor, some poignant tragedy and good music. I also preferred the mechanical designs in 1st season.
Gundam 00 2nd season just felt so disjointed and extraneous. I'm in love with first season, but I won't be revisiting 2nd season.

[Strike Zero]

Totally unrelated to the current discussion but...

At work today, I started idly humming a tune while sorting some things...hummed for about two minutes before, to my horror, I realized I was humming MARINA'S SONG!

Holy crap...

Interestingly enough, ever since I saw the final episode I've been humming that song to myself all the time.

I guess I'm the only insane guy here who actually likes listening to the damn thing.

Maybe it has to do with me feeling that it sounded perfect matched to the final fight between Setsuna and Ribbons. Again, that's probably just me.

[AceWhatever]

Well, the 11th Gundam show is finally over. While I certainly disagree with Spain's opinion of it, I can’t say I’m completely satisfied with the way this show handled certain aspects.

The best thing about the first season was that there wasn’t any clear-cut good vs. evil plot, which is only he second time the franchise managed to achieve this since Turn A. Let’s face it, the Gundam franchise for the most part is a Zebra claiming to be a hippo. Argue all you want about the shades of grey but it’s always the heroes versus a single-minded group of crazies that advocates and justifies mass genocide for the sake of whatever. 00 S1 was about three super powers who at most just left the middle-east in a financial rut then united to face CB. Fast forward to 00 S2 and we have the A-Laws, who manage to survive their Titans redux moniker by way of being “more brutal”. I’m not sure more mindless slaughter is the best way to surpass the entity you’re an expy of but whatever.

Speaking of comparisons, I totally think early S1 Setsuna is the love child of Heero Yui and Sousuke Sagara. But this has no effect whatsoever on how I enjoyed the show. Comparing things is just human nature. “Freedom looks like the DX” “That guy looks like Arnold” “Those clouds look like titties and a weewee”. Not everyone makes judgment calls solely on comparisons, so I don’t see why some people on the net kept stomping on any attempt at comparison between 00 and anything else like its some kind of malicious evil-inducing behavior that would be banned by Islam. Just sayin’. Same thing for the real/super argument. Why do people bend over backwards to avoid categorization at the base level at least? What does this dismissal accomplish?

Moving on to the MS design. I wasn’t very impressed with them at first, partly because the early lineart for them is pretty ugly, but I quickly changed my mind once I saw them in action. It felt nice to finally shut up the people who kept whining about Okawara’s expansive Seed designs with their high reliance on oversized gimmicks and backpacks. Then the upgrades came…with less detail and more blockiness to the designs which was a bit disappointing. The 00 having a support craft sticking out of its back looked very unappealing to me and killed any notion of buying it in any form (that and the fact that Bandai was a real *&^% with the 00 gunpla marketing). On the other hand I liked Ribbon’s Gundam a lot and look forward to good gunpla of it (though I don’t have high hopes for the 1/44 version since IMO the Throne kits were ‘bleh’). I actually felt nostalgic when Exia showed up for the final throwdown. Like seeing an old friend.

Then we have the characters, who as people argue got sidetracked for the sake of the plot. I ask why should any element be sacrificed for the sake of another in a work? Throughout the show you can see a lot of loose ends intentionally left here and there in hopes that the production will get around to doing something interesting with them later, and that amounts to a bunch of side characters doing fucking nothing of interest for long stretches. This is a really bad habit taken from western cartoon writers. Wang and Marina for instance spent most of the show doing jack shit except being bitchy/mopey respectively. And another bad side effect of uniting the three powers in S2 is that the army cast lost the individuality and uniqueness they had. Graham got hit with this the hardest, going from a persistent yet interesting enemy ace to a really bad version of early-Wing Zechs. Through some convoluted bullshit about honor and pride, they completely detach the character from the plot in what seems as little more than a desperate attempt to give him some uniqueness among the army cast. I also wish CB didn’t get guilt trips every time someone pulls the “If it weren’t for you!” card. CB is no more responsible for creating these psychos than Batman is responsible for creating his rogues gallery. Patrick fans can have their oaf but personally I never cared much for the Dark Horse Ensemble. At least he was off our backs in S2. I’m not gonna even dignify the red roach with a rant. He’s just the requisite Gundam psycho. Nothing more nothing less.

In the grand scheme of things, stuff like 00-Raiser’s magic pixie dust and instant LockonXAnew (just add timeskip) didn’t bother me that much. I won’t comment on the Bushido mask and the R2 vs. 0 battle until I have proof that they weren’t put in due to meddling by Bandai/Sunrise, but the latter case isn't something terribly new (Metal Gear’s been doing it for years).

With this and my Turn A marathon over last month, I now finally have all the main Gundam productions under my belt. Hurrah!

[plau]

Does anyone think Aeolia's Plan remind them of Hari's Plan from the Foundation series? I see a lot of parallels.

[MrMarch]

Does anyone think Aeolia's Plan remind them of Hari's Plan from the Foundation series? I see a lot of parallels.

It's been noted and mentioned several times. Asimov's work was definitely an influence on Gundam 00.

[MindlessFire]

A lot of people complained about that Trans Am pretty much ruined the entire second season of Gundam 00. I don't exactly have a problem with it, I mean think about. If you have a weapon that can give you an edge over your enemies, you'd be stupid not to use it. Then again there are people who complain about they don't use it enough like the last few episodes. Why is it that people complain if its used too much and complain if its used not enough. By the end, the Gundam Meisters pretty much stopped using them like Setsuna only going in Trans Am just to initiate a powerful attack like firing a massive wide beam cannon and generating a huge hyper beam saber. Pretty much near the end Setsuna only used Trans Am whenever his opponents go into Trans Am just to even the odds. Also activating Trans Am Burst had a price, it severely drained the 00 Raiser overall power where it was only running on 66% performance when he was fighting Reborns Gundam, Gaddessa and the Garrazzo which almost cost Setsuna's life if it weren't for Lockon and Allelujah/Hallelujah backing him up.

[MrMarch]

Problem with the Trans Am? Simple. Listen to the wisdom of The Incredibles

"And when everyone's super, no one will be."

[ShadowCell]

It doesn't help that by the end, even the suicide weapon whose only role was to crash into stuff could do it.

[Genocide]

Gundam 00: Special Edition seems to be official. Looks like the lack of any clip-show episodes means we get a few movies to make up for lost recap time. They probably won't be too bad if they squeezed in two movies per season. I still think it's kind of pointless unless they add in some new tid-bits here and there.