The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk VII: The Final

[TakaTahuNuva]

I'm going to ask a stupid question: Who's that?
If I were to guess, I'd say it was that vaguely creepy-looking new guy, the Innovade with the silver hair, but I'm not sure. Is it?

Yup, there's a pic in the first link I posted, just scroll down.

[eanetdude]

If any of you are thinking of purchasing the DVD release in North America for 00 Season 2, I've posted up my review of the DVD here (yes, 5 days before it's official release date):

Gundam 00 Season 2, Part 1 Review

[gundam_0088]

New trailer, the movie animation is looking good, and also like how they made some of the characters look older. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Gx-2zU8D0

[Arsarcana]

Yeah, we've been talking about it over in the Mecha thread. Not much Anime-worthy stuff to talk about yet; we've already seen the new look of the characters in earlier material and this one didn't provide any juicy new dialogue to analyze.

[chiku_shou]

A Nena "clone"?! I must say, I can't really see the in-series reason for somebody wanting to clone her as she was neither an important character nor a worthwhile pilot, and after being skewered and blown up I would think the real Nena is dead....

A lot of characters that should have stayed dead showed up in Season two and stole screen time. The whole Allelujha sidestory was just a waste of time... but Ribbons machinations weren't all that interesting either. In comparison the movie seems to have a more involving plot I think. Characters that played the role of GN-battery (Allelujha) suddenly become relevant with the whole "lets isolate people that have quantum brainwaves". If you look at it like this then anyone can play a major role in the movie. Nena for instance had quantum brainwaves and her origin and creation seems to be directly linked to the prevalent plot throughout the whole series. GN-particles, quantum brainwaves and Innovation. With the movies focus finally being on this main plot, I'd say that characters like "Lockon" (who played a larger role in season 1-2) only serve as just "another ace". Lockon has already gotten his revenge. His love interest in dead... and he supposedly forgave Setsuna in Season 2. Lockon could have died happily in the end of season 2 but I think they kept him around so they had a major character they could kill early on in the movie.

Also, despite looking like Nena and being voiced by the same person, that's got to be an Innovade or a clone or something. Louise did a pretty thorough job on Nena and she didn't have the opportunity to cheat death that Tieria got (not a full Innovade, no Veda link at the time, on Ribbons' **** list even if she had a link...).

I doubt Nena2 is "just a clone" or "an innovade". Nena was never an innovade so any clone of her wouldn't be either.

I am thinking that there might be three major possibilities:

1. She is the DNA host of the Trinity siblings. (which would explain the labcoat and her interest in quantum brainwaves.)

2. She really is Nena Trinity, resurrected "somehow".

3. She is a clonebody BUT, she is really Ribbons Almark.

You mentioned thought that Nena wouldn't have had any opportunity to cheat death? I'd like to strongly disagree with that. Nena seemed to use her Haro for much of her work... Nena's Haro did survive and Nena didn't die immediately when she was skewered/impaled. When she got impaled it is perfectly plausible in the Gundam00 universe that she did link up with her Haro and stored her consciousness there.

[Meteoid]

A lot of characters that should have stayed dead showed up in Season two and stole screen time.

Such as? I don't recall anybody being explicitly shown to die and then return. Except Patrick but that was kinda his thing by that point.

I doubt Nena2 is "just a clone" or "an innovade". Nena was never an innovade so any clone of her wouldn't be either.

I am thinking that there might be three major possibilities:

1. She is the DNA host of the Trinity siblings. (which would explain the labcoat and her interest in quantum brainwaves.)

2. She really is Nena Trinity, resurrected "somehow".

3. She is a clonebody BUT, she is really Ribbons Almark.

You mentioned thought that Nena wouldn't have had any opportunity to cheat death? I'd like to strongly disagree with that. Nena seemed to use her Haro for much of her work... Nena's Haro did survive and Nena didn't die immediately when she was skewered/impaled. When she got impaled it is perfectly plausible in the Gundam00 universe that she did link up with her Haro and stored her consciousness there.

Nena was an Innovade, all the Trinity trio were. They were artificially created beings that can link up with Veda, created by Ribbons. It's completley possible that Nena2 is Tieria/Veda's eyes in the Union. We saw in the end of Episode 25 that he has Innovade-looking people all over the world presumably acting as his eyes and ears when he can't just hack a computer.
Nena's Haro was hacked by Ribbons so surely he would have noticed her downloading herself into it, but when she died she didn't have the disco-eye thing going so she wasn't connected to anything.
Why would Ribbons be in Nena2's head? Surely if he was going to return then he would choose a new body just for himself rather than one that was so conspicuous to the Gundam Meisters.

[Imperial]

A lot of characters that should have stayed dead showed up in Season two and stole screen time.

Such as? I don't recall anybody being explicitly shown to die and then return. Except Patrick but that was kinda his thing by that point.

Patrick, Allelujah, Graham, Nena and Ali are all season 2 wastes of space that the show could have just as easily done without.

Most of those characters had near-death experiences that could have just as easily been kill-offs. Patrick, Allelujah, Graham and Ali could have (and really should have) died in the final battle of season 1, with how excruciatingly useless all of them were in the second season. Allelujah could have died of his head wound, Graham in the GN Flag's explosion, Ali when Lockon fried the Zwei and Patrick when Tieria shot up his GN-X. The Innovades were more than ample "rival fodder" for the Meisters. They didn't need Ali, Pat or Graham chasing them. Allelujah could have been replaced. They did it easily enough with Lockon.

Nena didn't have a death fake-out, but Ali could have axed her just along with her brothers. Really, what did she bring to the table other than temper tantrums? Wang Liu Mei had already shown herself as a double agent. Nena's moments could have been passed on to her.

One of Season 2's many problems was too much cast bloat. I don't think grimmer is better, but taking the scythe to the cast would have gone a long way in streamlining the second season. There was too much baggage coming in from the first season for it to move at a good clip.

[ShadowCell]

Yeah, and then in the first couple episodes of season 2 we have Setsuna tracking down Allelujah's conveniently unknown identical twin brother Yallelujah... =P

[Imperial]

Yeah, and then in the first couple episodes of season 2 we have Setsuna tracking down Allelujah's conveniently unknown identical twin brother Yallelujah... =P

Ha, I deserved that one.

But, really, they could spin the absent seat one of a few ways: Let Lasse do it, as he's pretty much an emergency Gundam Meister anyway. Pander to the fanboys by promoting Feldt to Meister. Introduce Anew at the start of the season as the new Meister, giving her time to grow and interact with the crew instead of getting shoehorned in halfway through the season.

We could even loop back around on ourselves. Let Nena survive the first season and join Celestial Being as an ally of necessity as they slowly rebuild, playing on themes of trust, redemption and acceptance.

Any number of those things would have been infinitely more interesting than Allelujah "Mariebot" Haptism. Allelujah was my favorite Meister in the first season, right up until the writers gutted him of anything resembling a character. He, like so many others, was just a place-filler the writers didn't know what to do with, so they stuffed him in the background and tossed him a line once an episode.

Besides, a big body count would have really hammered home the desperation and destruction of that final battle. As it is, it feels like the writers said "oh, well, we might as well kill off ONE important character to give this battle some semblance of danger: Tag, Lockon, you're it!" If the final battle was the really knock-down, drag-out fight it was made out to be, we would get more than one major player and a few third-string supporting characters dying.

[Arsarcana]

Didn't Mizushima say in an interview at one point that some planned character development was axed from S2 in favor of the movie? IIRC Graham was explicitly mentioned and what with everyone being interested in QBW there's a good chance that Allelujah will have something worthwhile to do in the movie. Not that it makes the sadness that was S2 Ali any better since he's dead though depending on what the Nena lookalike turns out to be, her S2 arc might work out.

Anyhow, if my memory is correct and there were plans to do more with certain characters that got relocated to the movie it was pretty much required that they stay alive and at least semi-present throughout S2. Not that I'd have objected to any of your ideas for a replacement Meister or Meisters in S2 (any of the four options could have worked) but let's see what the movie does first.

[LightningCount]

Didn't Mizushima say in an interview at one point that some planned character development was axed from S2 in favor of the movie? IIRC Graham was explicitly mentioned and what with everyone being interested in QBW there's a good chance that Allelujah will have something worthwhile to do in the movie. Not that it makes the sadness that was S2 Ali any better since he's dead though depending on what the Nena lookalike turns out to be, her S2 arc might work out.

Anyhow, if my memory is correct and there were plans to do more with certain characters that got relocated to the movie it was pretty much required that they stay alive and at least semi-present throughout S2. Not that I'd have objected to any of your ideas for a replacement Meister or Meisters in S2 (any of the four options could have worked) but let's see what the movie does first.

Constraints of business or not, and I think it's good you brought this up, I don't know if the ends will justify the means here. While some of the early, brief trailers looked interesting, the latest one somehow looks less exciting and less movie-like. The action choreography was looking flat and the mecha looked more like plastic model kits than usual for this AD universe. I didn't see a lot to differentiate it from what we saw in Season 2. I'm concerned they're going to try to cram too much like in Season 2, and again miss the genuine "soul" that the series has been lacking. I get this feeling like with Gundam F91, where business decisions turned a series into a movie, and the overall impact was lost in translation. I'm worried the hold-off on stuff possibly meant for Season 2 into a movie will water down the final results.

Whenever I look back at Season 1, especially early on prior to the addition of the Thrones, I lament the direction it went in Season 2. 00 was bursting with potential, and I think a lot of characters and plot lines were short-changed or simplified to their detriment. The pace of development of the 00 world, from more contrasting gritty/realistic and flashy/hi-tech to more traditional/cliche sci-fi theater made the 00 world more sterile/flat than it started out, and gave it less room to grow. (It's not a perfect comparison, but it reminds me of the difference between Star Wars IV-VI, and Star Wars I-III). After the execution of Season 2, it just didn't feel like there was anywhere meaningful for the series to go, aside from apologetically wrapping up loose threads and mismanaged characters. I'm not sure that an x-hour movie can make up for a season of lost/odd development, though. I don't mean to gripe, but these are my current reactions based on the latest developments.

PS:
Gundam 00 returns to SyFy Channel for second run:

On SyFy Channel's TV schedule, it shows Gundam 00 returning on June 21st, 12 AM-1 AM Eastern Time. It will be shown in order on subsequent Mondays, two episodes at a time. On July 5th, however, it will not be shown due to a movie marathon, and will resume July 12th.

[South Burning]

Speaking of which, it looks like season 1 returned to SyFy, not season 2. Has any one heard or read if they are going to do the decent human thing and show ALL of season 1 before they show season 2?

[LightningCount]

Speaking of which, it looks like season 1 returned to SyFy, not season 2. Has any one heard or read if they are going to do the decent human thing and show ALL of season 1 before they show season 2?

Yeah, I stated at the end of my last post that that seems to be the intention. There will be a break on July 4th, though, where no Gundam will be shown (due to a movie marathon of other stuff). The SyFy schedule seems to suggest so far that they will show the whole of Season 1 in order. I'm not sure if they'll continue with Season 2 or not. Good to see Season 1 back on the air. I wonder if anyone new will watch it?

[chiku_shou]

Nena's Haro was hacked by Ribbons so surely he would have noticed her downloading herself into it, but when she died she didn't have the disco-eye thing going so she wasn't connected to anything.

In that scene her pupils are too small so we can't really tell if she was connected or not. But I don't think Ribbons cared much if Nena uploaded herself. He had ignored her survival back when Ali was supposed to have killed all the Trinities... Nena was just there to push Louise over the edge... And I don't think Ribbons hacked bad Haro as much as he just 'hacked' into it to deliver her a message. (well that's just my opinion.)

Nena didn't have a death fake-out, but Ali could have axed her just along with her brothers. Really, what did she bring to the table other than temper tantrums? Wang Liu Mei had already shown herself as a double agent. Nena's moments could have been passed on to her..

Wang? She was just one step above the bridge bunnies in season one. Wang never did much of anything on her own. her character was that of a smug snake. She needed another character to do the actual legwork.

Also, you forget that Nena was the only character tied to a real sidestory. She was the reason why Louise had suffered. If you remove Nena then you might as well remove Louise and with her Saji... and the 00raiser. You would then be left with a show about pretty gay robots in space sitting in a comfy looking sofa and generally being a horrible excuse for a villain.

Pander to the fanboys by promoting Feldt to Meister. Introduce Anew at the start of the season as the new Meister, giving her time to grow and interact with the crew instead of getting shoehorned in halfway through the season.

I like that idea about Anew . They should have skipped the whole Lyle part though... in fact they should have skipped Lyle altogther.

Let Nena survive the first season and join Celestial Being as an ally of necessity as they slowly rebuild, playing on themes of trust, redemption and acceptance.

... Feldt and Anew and now Nena as new emergency Meisters? You're suggestion is sounding more and more like the Season 2 version I've been toying with as a fanfic idea.

[Shores]

Nena's Haro was hacked by Ribbons so surely he would have noticed her downloading herself into it, but when she died she didn't have the disco-eye thing going so she wasn't connected to anything.

In that scene her pupils are too small so we can't really tell if she was connected or not. But I don't think Ribbons cared much if Nena uploaded herself. He had ignored her survival back when Ali was supposed to have killed all the Trinities... Nena was just there to push Louise over the edge... And I don't think Ribbons hacked bad Haro as much as he just 'hacked' into it to deliver her a message. (well that's just my opinion.)

Nena didn't have a death fake-out, but Ali could have axed her just along with her brothers. Really, what did she bring to the table other than temper tantrums? Wang Liu Mei had already shown herself as a double agent. Nena's moments could have been passed on to her..

Wang? She was just one step above the bridge bunnies in season one. Wang never did much of anything on her own. her character was that of a smug snake. She needed another character to do the actual legwork.

Also, you forget that Nena was the only character tied to a real sidestory. She was the reason why Louise had suffered. If you remove Nena then you might as well remove Louise and with her Saji... and the 00raiser. You would then be left with a show about pretty gay robots in space sitting in a comfy looking sofa and generally being a horrible excuse for a villain.

Pander to the fanboys by promoting Feldt to Meister. Introduce Anew at the start of the season as the new Meister, giving her time to grow and interact with the crew instead of getting shoehorned in halfway through the season.

I like that idea about Anew . They should have skipped the whole Lyle part though... in fact they should have skipped Lyle altogther.

Let Nena survive the first season and join Celestial Being as an ally of necessity as they slowly rebuild, playing on themes of trust, redemption and acceptance.

... Feldt and Anew and now Nena as new emergency Meisters? You're suggestion is sounding more and more like the Season 2 version I've been toying with as a fanfic idea.

I say we should have a thread about what we'd prefer Season 2 to be like. I mean, I loved S2 more than S1 (and as such, I am the devil), but I have a new idea.

Open your mind, guys, okay? Send Setsuna on a fatal mission in episode one (killing Graham in the process), make Tieria the main character with the Twin Drive system, give Allelujah and Marie a useful dual-seat machine and like seven GN Archers to command (with Innovade pilots), make a new Feldt love interest the pilot of the Dynames R2, and upgrade the 0 Gundam to give to Lasse in place of Setsuna and his machine. Same plot, but with minimal singing princesses with Ribbons leading a smaller army of actual mobile suits and not kamikazes. Instead of Boring In Blue reading the script, it's Tieria trying to be human.

Also Reborn's Riser. Strapping a jet to your back to go faster sounds like a Cosmic Era idea, and as such, it should be on a villain's machine. Sorry for the self-indulgent post.

[Wingnut]

I say we should have a thread about what we'd prefer Season 2 to be like. I mean, I loved S2 more than S1 (and as such, I am the devil), but I have a new idea.

Open your mind, guys, okay? Send Setsuna on a fatal mission in episode one (killing Graham in the process), make Tieria the main character with the Twin Drive system, give Allelujah and Marie a useful dual-seat machine and like seven GN Archers to command (with Innovade pilots), make a new Feldt love interest the pilot of the Dynames R2, and upgrade the 0 Gundam to give to Lasse in place of Setsuna and his machine. Same plot, but with minimal singing princesses with Ribbons leading a smaller army of actual mobile suits and not kamikazes. Instead of Boring In Blue reading the script, it's Tieria trying to be human.

Also Reborn's Riser. Strapping a jet to your back to go faster sounds like a Cosmic Era idea, and as such, it should be on a villain's machine. Sorry for the self-indulgent post.

We have an entire sub-forum for just that sort of thing. It's called Fanfiction and you can find it a few sub-forums down from this one.

[Arbiter GUNDAM]

Someone probably already cracked this joke but: GN-0000 00 Gundam--NINJA GUNDAM VANISH!!!

[AnimeMun]

hey i don't know if this was mentioned or not but i took a closer look at the Graham/Setsuna back to back shot in their pilot suits with concern towards the movie. I noticed that his patch said SOLBRAVES with the A doing that weird upside down V thing that union likes to use. I was wondering since this is probably his new squadron, if the naming convention here was to poke at him coming out of his dark Mr. Bushido funk.

[blind_dead_mcjones]

more character designs released

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/476 ... bff8_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/476 ... f22d_b.jpg

louise is looking better, and much more mature, and saji is decidely rather buff

[AnimeMun]

more character designs released

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/476 ... bff8_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4118/476 ... f22d_b.jpg

louise is looking better, and much more mature, and saji is decidely rather buff

Yeah, it almost looks as if a little bit of Setsuna has rubbed off on him. No complaints with that.