The Official Gundam 00 Season 2 Thread Mk VII: The Final

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Post by Red Comet90 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:29 pm

RedBlitz wrote:Euh Aeolia wanted a peaceful future, but make no mistake about it... I doubt he would let traitors manufacturing fake GN-Drives for War get away with it!!

Because from the start Aeolia's plan have always involved sacriffice, the CB members dying to unite the world, everyone that the interventions killed etc.... He just wanted to make sure that their deaths would not be in vain.
I agree with what you say but wasn't it in the plan that there would be a traitor (Alejandro) who would use the fake GN drives to help unite the world against Celestial Being? If you think about it the fake GN drives were the final catalyst which brought the world together against CB.
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Post by Furious Rodimus » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:37 pm

Overall I must say that I am quite pleased with how this series turned out. I quite enjoyed the characters (even thought I could have gone for a little more Al/Hal after s2-ep7). I thought that most of the characters got what they had coming to them, and it was nice to see that most got their just desserts.
as for those who didn't get what they deserved they sill went out in a dramatic way without really getting punked.
I really enjoyed the music in this show as well as it seemed to fit almost perfectly.
It ended up a little rushed at the end but it was all handled with deftness and style without being sloppy or totally cliche at the end.
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Post by RedBlitz » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:39 pm

Red Comet90 wrote:I agree with what you say but wasn't it in the plan that there would be a traitor (Alejandro) who would use the fake GN drives to help unite the world against Celestial Being? If you think about it the fake GN drives were the final catalyst which brought the world together against CB.
True the the fake GN Drives made one hell of difference and were pretty much the only reason the 3 super powers united together so quickly. But with the Thrones and CB doing interventions, it was only a matter of time before the 3 would united together even without the fake GN-Drives on their side. Alejandro/Ribbons just made things move faster.

As for Aeolia knowing/planning that someone would betray him?? It's possible... I mean Exia did have those GN-Blades for that exact purpose! But I dont think that it was part of the plan for it to happen only a few months after CB started their interventions. And I still dont think he planned for the GN-Drives to get copied, those are his babies after all.
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Post by Red Comet90 » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:22 pm

RedBlitz wrote:
Red Comet90 wrote:I agree with what you say but wasn't it in the plan that there would be a traitor (Alejandro) who would use the fake GN drives to help unite the world against Celestial Being? If you think about it the fake GN drives were the final catalyst which brought the world together against CB.
True the the fake GN Drives made one hell of difference and were pretty much the only reason the 3 super powers united together so quickly. But with the Thrones and CB doing interventions, it was only a matter of time before the 3 would united together even without the fake GN-Drives on their side. Alejandro/Ribbons just made things move faster.
You bring up a good point, but until that point the three nations could not oppose the Gundams at all. They had more firepower than the 3 nations were capable of dealing with. To them the Thrones were working together with the original 4 so that makes 7 of them in total. The thrones were also very mysterious so the 3 nations had a new enemy they knew nothing about and could not oppose or feared too much to mess with. The 30 GN Tau drives gave them the ability to unite and oppose a common enemy and have a chance of success.
As for Aeolia knowing/planning that someone would betray him?? It's possible... I mean Exia did have those GN-Blades for that exact purpose! But I dont think that it was part of the plan for it to happen only a few months after CB started their interventions. And I still dont think he planned for the GN-Drives to get copied, those are his babies after all.
He expected someone to betray him or at least he planned for it including the GN Tau drives. Remember that Setsuna doesn't use Trans-Am until the very moment Ribbons tries to access Veda and Alejandro shoots Aeolia's body. Such a precise coincidence that gives the original GN drives more power is evidence that maybe he foresaw the GN Tau drives being used against CB.
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Post by Recon 5 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:42 am

The Celestial Being itself was powered by that multiple Tau drive switching system and since it was the housing for Veda it would mean that Veda itself was powered by Tau drives as well, which in turn would mean that the Tau drives must have been created by Aeolia and were part of his plan.
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Post by Aegis » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:50 am

Eh... not necessarily true. The Tau Drives are seen only providing power to the cannon rather than CB itself, and I'm sure Veda and the CB were around longer or at the time of the development of the true drives. For all we know, that weapon and the systems incorporated to it may be later additions or modifications rather than being part of its original design. I really doubt that Aeolia intended for the Tau Drives to be used as is, but I can see him placing contingencies should these devices be used against his plan, and of all things to happen, I would like to think that he'd at least foresee the possibility of his technology being copied and used against him.

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Post by Marcis » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:28 am

Possible CB mothership is powered by TrueGN drive which is not shown or even mentioned.

I also have my doubts about The Plan. When Alejandro shot Aeolia and Ribbons took over The Plan and starting to execute it on it's own - does it is The Plan anymore?
Does Ribbons follow The Plan or already adjusted/changed/altered it?
I am not sure it is Aeolia's Plan anymore.
Maybe movie will give us some answers.
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Post by T.V. » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:03 am

Red Comet90 wrote:As for Aeolia knowing/planning that someone would betray him?? It's possible... I mean Exia did have those GN-Blades for that exact purpose! But I dont think that it was part of the plan for it to happen only a few months after CB started their interventions. And I still dont think he planned for the GN-Drives to get copied, those are his babies after all.
I agree pretty much with that notion.

As I see it, the Plan didn't need a betrayer, in the form of Alejandro and Ribbons, to work. It was made to work in spite of betrayal happening (or not).
It's just that Aeolia foresaw betrayal being a possibility (as well as the Earth developing/copying GN technology on their own) and he didn't want the Plan to fail if that ever came to pass. That's the primary reason for why anti-GN technology (Exia's sword, TRIAL field, etc) and TRANS AM was developed but kept hidden, in order to be a timely trump card, only to be released when needed the most.

Without a betrayal, CB would've simply beaten down the world, who had by then no other option left then banding together in the face of CB's might.
That unification, initially out of convenience, could lead to lasting peace by virtue of having to rely on eachother indefinitely and growing accustomed to that.
By that point CB would've returned to the shadows, just as they did in the last episode's epilogue.

Corner's Rebellion didn't speed things up for the Plan -as Aeolia intended it- but only for Corner's own (read: Ribbons') plan.
Aeolia's Plan got derailed, actually needing more time to come to fruition than originally intended.
CB's actions in season 2 were to make up for that derailment, and they could (only) do so because Aeolia/CB had put some contigencies in place owing to their survival and their ability to overcome this 'distortion'.
Recon 5 wrote:The Celestial Being itself was powered by that multiple Tau drive switching system and since it was the housing for Veda it would mean that Veda itself was powered by Tau drives as well, which in turn would mean that the Tau drives must have been created by Aeolia and were part of his plan.
I don't agree and share Aegis' notion on that.

Just because it uses GN[T] Drives to power it's latest doomsday weapon, which is concievably added later on by Ribbons (and not planned for by Aeolia), doesn't mean that the GN[T] drive is intergral to CB's operation.

I believe it's been around very long, too long for it to have been planned out using the relatively recent GN[T] -or even true GN- Drive at its core, because it simply takes a long time to build something that big.
I reckon that the Celestial Being -and VEDA- are powered by a version of Aeolia's solar power network (just like used on Earth), (partly) formed by the halo on which the mini-Memento-Mori carts around. The Halo is, according to my best guess, a miniature version of the ring of solar power collectors orbiting earth.

I believe CB's construction should've started when Aeolia was still alive, with Ribbons' GNTau powered do-adds being but a latest customization on his part, after he 'inherited' it from the late Aeolia.
The Celestial Being was meant as Aeolia's final trump card, being concieved when the Gundam and the GN Drive only existed in theory.
Unfortunately Ribbons was able to hijack it, and CB (the organisation) had to face its own creation, in more ways than one.

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Post by Symbolhime » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:12 am

I have to say, I really like how Billy cracked like an egg as soon as Sumeragi gave him some nice thoughts.

Kinda realistic, in a way.
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Post by Marikina » Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:09 am

I think it was said in one of the World Report books that Veda allows for deviations to the Plan caused by unexpect variables, if its still in line with the same end result. Which was how even the Corner treachery managed to factor into the scheme.

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Post by RedBlitz » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:24 am

Ahhh now that would make alot more sense then Aeolia planning the whole thing.
Last edited by RedBlitz on Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ZeonsSilverStar » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:22 pm

Just saw the episode for the first time and I simply fell in love with the final battle. It was exactly what I wanted to see for quite some time now but I never thought they'd go through with it. Now I do know wether it was symbolic or shameless fanservice but I was entertained.

Stepping away from that I really enjoyed the ending even though I'm not fond of happy endings. Everything just seemed appropriate, and while I may be the only person to feel this way I'm glad Andrei got a happy ending.
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Post by RedBlitz » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:18 pm

I agree with the Andrei happy ending, it's far more rewarding to see him at last understand his father then just die a stupid death. Now he can really grow as man/soldier and do the right thing. I also like how Kathi seems to have taken him under her wing, her final favor to Sergei I imagine. Hopefully she can turn this baby bear into the next Wild Bear of Russia by the start of the movie.
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Post by Kavik Ryx » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:23 pm

As much as I admittedly hate Andrei, yeah, the fact that he got an ending was fitting, consistent with the story, and a real step in a different direction for Gundam. His burying of the hatchet was much like with Shin, except that we actually saw the catalyst for his change. Also, it was nice that his revelation didn't happen in such a way that he ended up helping CB in the final battle, which is such a tired cliche.

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Post by Athrun 77 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:03 pm

It was petty finale to Gundam 00 S2 and it had a happy ending which I love happy endings. Anyway they really did a first cause I havn't seen a Gundam poilt go back to his old Moblie suit. Its Like Kira Yamato going back to the Freedom or Skrike or Shinn Asuka going back to the Impluse or Athrun Zala going back to the Ageis or the Justice. Not that had problem with it.

Gundam 00 gave the Gundam fanchiase a Future and its Gundam series before it like Gundam seed or Gundam seed Destiny laid the foudation to the future of Gundam.

Now I am not only axious for the Gundam seed Destiny Movie but now I am axious for the Gundam 00 Movie. Cause I love both series.

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Post by Red Comet90 » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:19 pm

Reading all of the posts right now I just found something that doesn't make sense or maybe I just don't have the clear picture. Were the Innovedos around when Aeolia was still alive or were they put into the plan but created afterwards?

If they were made during Aeolia's time then I don't understand why Tieria wouldn't know everything from the start or was he made later (supposing at least one innovedo was around when Aeolia was)?
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Post by razgriz » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:27 pm

innovades were probably made after aeolia's time but conceived as a part of the master plan and who knows before that crazy bald bastard :lol: died, he figured there would be complications in the plan including with the innovades so he had veda limit their programming so to speak. or veda just evolved its program over time. btw anyone kno how old veda is? or might be?
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Post by Aegis » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:00 am

Even if an Innovade did exist in Aeolia's time (which I doubt), that doesn't mean that the current Innovades in the series came from Aeolia's time. And then, whether they did or not, there is such a thing as blocking their memories. Again, I doubt they were created during Aeolia's time anyways, so all this would be a moot point.

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Post by NovaGundam5683 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:24 am

Which also begs the question of whether or not Aeolia created The Plan before or after he issued the creation of true GN Drives. I'm almost positive that in order for Innovation to happen one would have to be exposed GN particles filtered by TD Blankets. A post here said that Aeolia the red particles were hazardous, meaning that Innovades couldn't have existed in Aeolia's time.

My take, then, on The Plan (by way of deduction) is that Aeolia already made it before the creation of anything GN and was merely to unite the world for the coming of a dialogue, whatever that may be. The Innovation step of the plan was merely an added bonus with the discovery of GN technology.

The creation of Innovades before TD research was improbable in all likelihood; but maybe he and his followers found out through experimentation and exposure that filtered GN particles had evolutionary properties.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into this.
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Post by Dark Duel » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:41 am

Another possibility is that Aeolia initially developed the GN Drive as a possible replacement power source to take the place of fossil fuels, and that after he somehow realized the evolutionary effects of true/pure GN Particles on the human body he devised The Plan, created Veda and hid the technology until said Plan was ready for implementation.

But yeah, we could just be reading waaay too much into it.
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